Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth_Ravage 08-24-07, 03:25 PM	I heard that in 3ed, drow equipment doesn't desinegrate or become weakend. Is this true? If so, doesn't this contradict the dark elf trilogy in which Drizzt' equipment was destroyed(well maybe not destroyed literally, but weakend greatly) apon reaching the surface?
SirUrza 08-24-07, 07:13 PM	Yes it's true, no it doesn't. The drow finally learned to make stuff that didn't disintegrate in sunlight.
bondious 08-24-07, 07:48 PM	I think they made it that drow equipment is pretty much like any other standard equipment; a +1 Rapier made by drow will be the same as a +1 Rapier made by anyone else. What IS different, though, are Drowcraft weapons and armor. These are in the 'Underdark' book. They grant special extras while in the vacinity of certain areas of the Underdark, work normally anywhere else, but if they are taken into direct sunlight they must make a save for each day of exposure or crumble to dust.
Lord Karsus 08-24-07, 11:22 PM	-Bondious hit the nail on the head.
bondious 08-25-07, 12:54 AM	-Bondious hit the nail on the head. :cloud9:
Zanan 08-25-07, 05:30 PM	Essentially, the drow items that "disintegrated in sunlight or lost their potency in AD&D were made of adamantite - an alloy of adamantine - and subjected to the Underdark's radiation. There was, as far as I am aware, never someone preventing a drow using or creating normal magic equipment at any time since the dawn of D&D. In 3E, they changed the rules in so far as to withdrawing the "adamantite" bit and re-introduced something similar with the "drowcraft" enhancement. The only thing that was messed up, IMHO, is the requirment of the creator of drowcraft equipment to be able to cast disintegrate, as this is not build into the equipment (nor would it serve a purpose).
The WarOverlord 08-26-07, 03:30 AM	Just as Mystra's death during the "time of Troubles affected Magic and Psionics in the Realms it also affected the magical source of the Drow Enchantment ("Farez"). So yeah, the really powerful but disinegrates in sunlight stuff just doen't exist anymore though Drow still make non adamantite things
MarkHall 08-26-07, 03:47 AM	Just as Mystra's death during the "time of Troubles affected Magic and Psionics in the Realms it also affected the magical source of the Drow Enchantment ("Farez"). So yeah, the really powerful but disinegrates in sunlight stuff just doen't exist anymore though Drow still make non adamantite things It was a delayed effect, though, because it did exist from 1359-1371.
Eli_the_Tanner 08-26-07, 05:00 PM	Generally Drowcraft has fallen out of fashion in most Drow cities. it's just not vogue anymore - it's all about looking cool for the drow and apparently a sword that melts away when you are attempting to run some stinky surface elf through just doesn't look good.
Zanan 08-27-07, 08:45 AM	BTW, enhancement-wise, drowcraft is one of the finest equipment enhancements you can get. And if you play drow in their home-environment, there hardly is any better at "+1".
Eli_the_Tanner 08-27-07, 08:52 AM	Too true, I've recently begun an all drow City of the Spider Queen campaign set in the underdark and every one in the gruop has Drowcraft items. +2 luck bonus stacks with everything, as long as you don't go to the surface(what sensible drow would want or need to).
pedroripoll 08-28-07, 12:18 PM	why sould a drow go to surface in these times? if you aren't Drizzt'do'Urden, a scout or a member of house Jaerle you dont have any reason, luck bonus are the best kind of bonus you can got, stacks with everything, so why not wear drowcraft equipment? But drowcrafted equipment disintegrates himself in sunlight or the enchantament just stop?
bondious 08-28-07, 02:42 PM	But drowcrafted equipment disintegrates himself in sunlight or the enchantament just stop? It "disolves utterly" (quoted from the 'Underdark' book), meaning it is completely destroyed. I like to think of it as turning into dust. The things is, though, that there is a save against this happening. It's like a DC 8 Fortitude save, though I'm not sure if it's made by the weapon/armor (with whatever bonuses a weapon gets) OR if it's made by the owner. If it's by the weapon with no bonus, or maybe a +1 for every point of enhancement bonus, then that DC 8 might be difficult, along the lines of a 50/50 chance or so. Now if it's made by the owner, then depending on their class or level, that DC 8 save might be merely a formality. Also to, there are ways of safeguarding Drowcraft equipment. Putting them in a lead or lead-lined case/chest will protect them indefinitely, though you could only use them at night without requiring a save. There is also a substance called "Darkoil" in the 'Underdark' book, which when applied, protects againt the sunlight for a certain set timeframe (1 vial = 3 days protection for a weapon or 1 day protection for a suit of armor; 25gp cost per vial).
Borris 08-28-07, 05:42 PM	Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item’s Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + one-half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better. Since a drowcraft item's crafter needs to have a minimum caster level of 12th, a drowcraft item's base Fort save is +8, meaning it will only ever dissolve if the owner rolls a natural 1. An owner who wears a drowcraft item constantly could roll the saving throw himself, but chances are it would still only fail on a natural 1 and things would stay the same. Essentially, a drowcraft item has a flat 5% chance to get dissolved every day during which it is exposed to direct or indirect sunlight. The given Fort save DC is irrelevant unless someone find a way to lower the item's saving throw.
Zanan 08-29-07, 04:47 AM	Too true, I've recently begun an all drow City of the Spider Queen campaign set in the underdark and every one in the gruop has Drowcraft items. +2 luck bonus stacks with everything, as long as you don't go to the surface(what sensible drow would want or need to). Remember that the armor does not have a "luck bonus" - which is a bit of a downer for clerics (protection from etc. spells don't stack). Then again, when flat footed, that bonus shouldn't go away like the armor bonus either. @Borris .... never noted that little technicality before :D
TomCosta 08-29-07, 05:15 PM	Since no one mentioned it (or I overlooked it and apologize), there was a novel explanation for the change in editions. In 1E and 2E, drow equipment did fall apart. In 3E, it didn't. Elaine Cunningham tried to explain this, by having Liriel Baenre in her trilogy of novels find world altering magic that "fixed" drow magic so it worked on land. Then, WotC released Underdark, which sort of reintroduced the falling apart in sunlight thing with drowcraft items. Consequently, the explanation that Cunningham crafted was somewhat muddled, but arguably it still works by suggesting that what Liriel did was remove some of the faezress radiation thus strengthening all items currently crafted or that it strengthened those items with only a trace of the weakening radiation, leaving drowcraft items alone.
The WarOverlord 09-06-07, 06:47 PM	It was a delayed effect, though, because it did exist from 1359-1371. Yep, and there was cities abondoned and many outpost buiilt then abandoned by Droe trying to find pockets of the dying "Farez" If I remember correctly not only does adamantite disitegrate in sunlight, but begins to decay at a rapid rate if it isn't in the presence of "Farez" for more then a few days. Makes me think that Adamantite is some sort of pseudo magical solidified "shadowstuff" only found and workable in the "Farez" that creates and supports it. It would be natural progression to find a substitute material that can fill Adamantite's role...basically magical giving or easily enchantable materials come to mind like "Black Rock" (Type of Obsidian that changes properties when exposed to magical or magnetic fields) or even just Mithril just blackened by forging. Back to the "Farez"...it's probably some kind of Pseudo magical "ooze" dealing with the negative aspects of the "Weave" (As appose to the "Shadow Weave") if not a more "force" aspect of the Gian process...so It should be, like any "force", recreatable to some extent by a Spell ("Farez Flow", "Farez Surge","Globe of Farez") and only reason nobody ever thought of this was because most people would consider it "Cheap Hedge Magic" that was so easy to find and not really worth researching to see if there is another methoed to provid "Farez" energy In fact creating a "Farez" like field to maintain Adamantite weapons or to forge new ones shouldn't be more then a 1s or second level Spell as most sources considered "Farez" and the making of Adamantite weapons and Armor "Hedge Magic".
Rufus_StoneHammer 09-07-07, 10:31 PM	Yeah read "WindWalker" Tells all about how the equipment works on the surface now.
Zanan 09-08-07, 09:17 AM	Yeah read "WindWalker" Tells all about how the equipment works on the surface now. Essentially, it tells how Liriel thinks it works. ;) As Tom Costa said, a few things have been written about this, partly in novel, partly in lore. Of course, the explanations could be simpler. There is no reason to believe that all magic items created by drow in AD&D were actually subjected to faerzress or made of adamantite. They could have used the same rules, i.e. formulas (or is it formuli?) every other crafter used and created simple +1 longswords and the like. Those items did not fall apart in sunshine, for why should they? That practice was - at Liriel's time - probably not widely used, hence she didn't know it. After all, it is far easier to deposit the swords et al in an earth/faerzress node and enjoy the outcome (AD&D)?! With the ascendance (-> my word of the week) of 3E, drow were said to create more "normal" magic items, especially for those raiding the surface. Later, in Underdark, the designers finally gave us the conversion of the old items too, naming them drowcraft enhancements and linking them to faerzress again. Just MHO, of course.
KnightoftheWhiteRose 09-08-07, 12:14 PM	I always felt that there should have been some kinda of offical spell that protected against the Sun. I myself created one for a Shadow PC to have the ability to walk in the sunlight but it would work for anything harmed by sunlight. I still wish there was an offical spell for it though. When i was newly born and had aquired some shadow gear made from the essence of darkness no one warned me of the threat of the sun and when i left the dark shelter of my craggy cavern my awesome gear of destruction went Poof!:shocked: Now i use SunBlock.:rimshot:
Rufus_StoneHammer 09-09-07, 02:37 PM	If there was a spell like that what would happened if vampires got ahold of it "yikes"
Simrobert2001 09-09-07, 04:07 PM	The reason drowcraft existed, from what i read (or at the very least, think I have) is because the Drow felt that they needed some way to keep their toughest weapons out of the hands of enemy surface dwellers. Once the surface dwellers found out that Drow equipment would dissolve in sunlight, It pretty much stopped them from entering the underdark to loot drow ruins. It also stopped druegar and other from selling "Superior" Drow weaponry to surface worlders, as well as stopping the theft of "Superior" Drow equipment. In this fashion, Drow equipment would be completely safe to everyone except for races that dwell entierly in the underdark. (Like the drow) Recently however, The Drow have increased their raids to the surface world in retaliation of increased explorations to underdark ruins. They would begin raids on Towns like water deep. Since they would only be able to raid at night, their ability was limited. All the surface settlements had to do was to expect an attack at night. So, the drow would use slaves such to raid. They couldnt' let their slaves go in unarmed, so they would give them weapons. SInce they didn't want their weapons to dissolve, they couldn't use drowcraft. There was power to be gained in raids, so more and more families began to equip their soldiers with weapons that could survive the sunlight. As a result, DrowCraft became used less and less.
Eli_the_Tanner 09-09-07, 05:31 PM	That's the same way I've viewd the transitition from Drowcraft weapons to non-drowcraft weapons. Makes the most sense to me and shows the current ethos of a more worldly drow mind.