Questions about FR 3.5 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Questions about FR 3.5 [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alva
08-11-04, 05:55 AM Hi Fellow Forgotten Realms-junkies! ;)

I have a few questions i am hoping you guys could help me with. I've started a couple of years ago playing D&D 3.0. When 3.0 got updated to 3.5 I didn't followed. It had taken me a while to fully understand all the rules and when I finally mastered 3.0, they updated it to 3.5. I decided to keep playing 3.0 (after studying the rules I wanted to have some fun instead of studying again).

But now, because all the new FR accessories will be written for 3.5 in the future, I feel it's time to make the step to 3.5. So my questions are:

1) I have in my possession the Player's Handbook 3.0, Dungeon Master's Guide 3.0 and Monster Manual 3.0. Instead of updating those Core Game Products to 3.5 by buying the revised 3.5 versions of it, I was wondering if there wasn't such a thing as a 3.5 update "patch" for it. If the changes made to 3.0 are not great, it doesn't make much sense to throw away a lot of money buying these revised Core Game Products (money that can be spent on a FR accessory or novel instead)

2) Where's the rupture between 3.0 and 3.5 in the FR accessories? After reading a couple of weeks these fora, I think the PGtF introduces 3.5 in the FR, so everything published before PGtF is still 3.0? Am I correct?

3) Aside the 3 Core Game Products and all the FR related material (I also have of course the FR Campaign Setting and Lords of Darkness and Magic of Faerun), are there other D&D, not-FR sourcebooks I should consider purchasing? I've read a lot on this forum about Complete Divine, Epic Level Handbook, etc.

I hope you guys could clear out this few questions for me. Thanks a lot.
Lashan
08-11-04, 07:18 AM 1) There is a free download that has all the rules changes to 3.5E. It's on the main website, somewhere.

2) There were a few products that were half 3E and half 3.5E. I think Unapproachable East is one of them, but I can't recall exactly which ones.

3) I've gotten the Complete Warrior and Divine. They are the replacements for the older "splat" books. They redo a bunch of the old feats and PrC's and introduce some new ones of each. I like them better then the older splat books.
The_Declaration
08-11-04, 08:26 AM 1. the updating package is there I believe:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a

2. the "in-between" sourcebooks are (if i remember well): Unapproachable East and Race of Faerūn (Underdark is totally 3.5), but in the end, they're 85% 3.5.

3. there are soooo many books you could buy, you'll have to select them carefully.
I advise you to avoid the 3.0 material (sword and fist, etc.), except the epic level handbook and the manual of planes which are still very useful.

you have:
* the "additional rules sets":
- Unearthed Arcana
-

* the "salt and pepper":
- Expanded Psionics Handbook
- Manual of Planes
- Planar Handbook
- Draconomicon
- Liber Mortis

* the "races books"
- races of stone

* the "class-based books"
- Complete Warrior
- Complete Divine

and many others coming soon. So choose what is really important to you. The "complete" sery is very players-oriented: feats Prestige Classes, spells. The races books sound good so far. I personnally own the Psionics Handbook and the Unearthed Arcana, and I think they are both of good quality.
So it all depends of what you need, and of your budget....
Thuragrun
08-16-04, 04:25 AM I am in the same boat as you. There was great advice given already, especially Declarations link. I fought long and hard until I no longer knew anyone playing 3.0. You should find out quickly that 3.5 is superior. [ dodges rotting vegetables ]

P.S. I found that most people staying with 3.0 do so mostly because they do not want to spend all that money again. Like me.
warlockco
08-16-04, 04:39 AM Originally posted by Thuragrun
I am in the same boat as you. There was great advice given already, especially Declarations link. I fought long and hard until I no longer knew anyone playing 3.0. You should find out quickly that 3.5 is superior. [ dodges rotting vegetables ]

P.S. I found that most people staying with 3.0 do so mostly because they do not want to spend all that money again. Like me.

Another reason alot of people want to stay with 3.0 is they want to munchkin or play games where the rules are so unbalanced they can do things that are completely broken yet legal.

Here is one extreme example:

Originally posted by Kessalin Talira This is from the Combat, Arms & Armor > Tactics against spellcasters Thread
Unfortunately it won't work as well in 3.5

It was a 3.0 paladin, and the foundation was the divine shield feat. In 3.0, Divine Shield used a turning attempt to add an enhancement bonus equal to your charisma modifier to your shield. This worked for both attacks and damage, as well as AC. In 3.5, it's only to AC

Charisma as high as possible. Command Enhancement on Armor.

Divine Shield: Cha Mod to enhancement bonus.
Divine Might: Add Cha Modifier to weapon damage for rounds = Mod.
Improved Shield Bash: Add Bull Rush to shield attack.
Shield Charge: Double Shield damage when charging.
Smite, Charge.

For example, a 20th level Paladin with 18 Charisma + 5 for levels + 5 Inherent (Book) + 6 Enhancement (Item) + 4 Competence (Command Enchantment on Armor) = 38 (+14 Modifier)

Bashing Large Steel Shield: 1d8 damage.

18 Strength: +4 to hit, +4 Damage.
Power Attack for 20: -20 to hit, +20 Damage
Divine Shield: +14 AC, +14 to hit, +14 Damage.
Divine Might: +14 Damage for 14 rounds.
Smite: +14 to hit, +20 Damage.
Shield Charge: Double Damage.

Charge: Attack is resolved at +34 to hit (with a +2 charge bonus, but AFTER taking the -20 penalty to hit from Power Attack) and deals 2d8 + 144 damage, before Critical. A critical hit on said charge attack would deal 3d8 + 216 damage.

That's in 3.0. As you can see, some things are quite different now.

For 3.5, there's a little changing that gets done. Again, the highest possible Charisma is ESSENTIAL. It's what gets the damage to such astronomical levels.

Strength: 13 at least, more if you can get it. I'll assume a 13 strength for now.

Charisma: 18, then go up from there.

Power Attack
Divine Might
Extra Turning
Extra Smiting

Because the Heavy Shield is considered a one handed martial bludgeoning weapon when used for a shield bash, by the letter of the rules, it should be able to be used two handed.

Assuming a 20th level build:

Strength: 13 + 5 Inherent + 6 Enhancement: 21 (+5)
Charisma: 18 + 5 Levels +5 Inherent + 6 Enhancement = 34 (+12)

Bashing Heavy Steel Shield, enhanced to +5: 1d8+5

Smite: +12 to hit, +20 Damage
Power Attack: -12 to hit, +24 Damage
Divine Might: +12 damage

Charge: +32 to hit, 1d8+71 damage. Critical hit: 2d8+142

Note that in 3.5, none of the modifiers that apply are exclusive to the shield, like they were in 3.0. This can easily be used with a Greatsword, for example.

So, if your DM is still running 3.0, a Shield can be the paladin's most potent weapon. If not, then the feats and Charisma score the character has are what makes the character a powerhouse.

Everything above is completely independent of elemental damage, holy damage, etc. Those will increase numbers accordingly.
Crust
08-16-04, 07:45 AM There are still plenty of rules to exploit in 3.5. Nothing has changed in that regard.

I can't imagine finding a suitable "patch" for 3.5, especially with all the updated monsters and spells.
The_Declaration
08-16-04, 07:52 AM well, the "patch" for updating FR is called "Player's guide to Faerūn", and the one for the rules is downloadable.
The difference between 3.0 & 3.5 is very small, each person shall make his own choice.
tassander
08-16-04, 07:54 AM Just download the SRD. It's free, completely legal, and there are several nicely edited versions of it.

It consists of all the rules (except advancement rules, but those haven't changed anyway) and almost all the monsters.

The complete v3.5 is available for free.

So, there's your "patch".:)
warlockco
08-16-04, 08:51 AM Originally posted by tassander
Just download the SRD. It's free, completely legal, and there are several nicely edited versions of it.

It consists of all the rules (except advancement rules, but those haven't changed anyway) and almost all the monsters.

The complete v3.5 is available for free.

So, there's your "patch".:)

Just as a sidenote on that free patch, it is cheaper to buy the books than to print the files.
I had a friend do that, spent over $100 to have the DMG, PHB, and the MM done.
She had Kinko's print them. And I don't recommend you do this at home, you Printer will HATE you.

The thing I find the SRDs to be useful is for doing a list of full spell descriptions for the spells that I use. This way I have about 10 sheets with spells on them instead of wearing out my PHB to look up stuff.

Then one of the guys in the gaming group wanted to run a D20 Modern game, but there was only the 1 copy for 8 people to share, I told the group about the SRDs for it, so we could at least create characters and get the ball rolling, and if the game ended up being enjoyable then we could later on actually get our own books.
Mumm-Ra
08-16-04, 10:59 AM I printed 2 copies of the complete SRD at no cost :) ah its good to have free printing :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alva 08-11-04, 05:55 AM	Hi Fellow Forgotten Realms-junkies! ;) I have a few questions i am hoping you guys could help me with. I've started a couple of years ago playing D&D 3.0. When 3.0 got updated to 3.5 I didn't followed. It had taken me a while to fully understand all the rules and when I finally mastered 3.0, they updated it to 3.5. I decided to keep playing 3.0 (after studying the rules I wanted to have some fun instead of studying again). But now, because all the new FR accessories will be written for 3.5 in the future, I feel it's time to make the step to 3.5. So my questions are: 1) I have in my possession the Player's Handbook 3.0, Dungeon Master's Guide 3.0 and Monster Manual 3.0. Instead of updating those Core Game Products to 3.5 by buying the revised 3.5 versions of it, I was wondering if there wasn't such a thing as a 3.5 update "patch" for it. If the changes made to 3.0 are not great, it doesn't make much sense to throw away a lot of money buying these revised Core Game Products (money that can be spent on a FR accessory or novel instead) 2) Where's the rupture between 3.0 and 3.5 in the FR accessories? After reading a couple of weeks these fora, I think the PGtF introduces 3.5 in the FR, so everything published before PGtF is still 3.0? Am I correct? 3) Aside the 3 Core Game Products and all the FR related material (I also have of course the FR Campaign Setting and Lords of Darkness and Magic of Faerun), are there other D&D, not-FR sourcebooks I should consider purchasing? I've read a lot on this forum about Complete Divine, Epic Level Handbook, etc. I hope you guys could clear out this few questions for me. Thanks a lot.
Lashan 08-11-04, 07:18 AM	1) There is a free download that has all the rules changes to 3.5E. It's on the main website, somewhere. 2) There were a few products that were half 3E and half 3.5E. I think Unapproachable East is one of them, but I can't recall exactly which ones. 3) I've gotten the Complete Warrior and Divine. They are the replacements for the older "splat" books. They redo a bunch of the old feats and PrC's and introduce some new ones of each. I like them better then the older splat books.
The_Declaration 08-11-04, 08:26 AM	1. the updating package is there I believe: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a 2. the "in-between" sourcebooks are (if i remember well): Unapproachable East and Race of Faerūn (Underdark is totally 3.5), but in the end, they're 85% 3.5. 3. there are soooo many books you could buy, you'll have to select them carefully. I advise you to avoid the 3.0 material (sword and fist, etc.), except the epic level handbook and the manual of planes which are still very useful. you have: * the "additional rules sets": - Unearthed Arcana - * the "salt and pepper": - Expanded Psionics Handbook - Manual of Planes - Planar Handbook - Draconomicon - Liber Mortis * the "races books" - races of stone * the "class-based books" - Complete Warrior - Complete Divine and many others coming soon. So choose what is really important to you. The "complete" sery is very players-oriented: feats Prestige Classes, spells. The races books sound good so far. I personnally own the Psionics Handbook and the Unearthed Arcana, and I think they are both of good quality. So it all depends of what you need, and of your budget....
Thuragrun 08-16-04, 04:25 AM	I am in the same boat as you. There was great advice given already, especially Declarations link. I fought long and hard until I no longer knew anyone playing 3.0. You should find out quickly that 3.5 is superior. [ dodges rotting vegetables ] P.S. I found that most people staying with 3.0 do so mostly because they do not want to spend all that money again. Like me.
warlockco 08-16-04, 04:39 AM	Originally posted by Thuragrun I am in the same boat as you. There was great advice given already, especially Declarations link. I fought long and hard until I no longer knew anyone playing 3.0. You should find out quickly that 3.5 is superior. [ dodges rotting vegetables ] P.S. I found that most people staying with 3.0 do so mostly because they do not want to spend all that money again. Like me. Another reason alot of people want to stay with 3.0 is they want to munchkin or play games where the rules are so unbalanced they can do things that are completely broken yet legal. Here is one extreme example: Originally posted by Kessalin Talira This is from the Combat, Arms & Armor > Tactics against spellcasters Thread Unfortunately it won't work as well in 3.5 It was a 3.0 paladin, and the foundation was the divine shield feat. In 3.0, Divine Shield used a turning attempt to add an enhancement bonus equal to your charisma modifier to your shield. This worked for both attacks and damage, as well as AC. In 3.5, it's only to AC Charisma as high as possible. Command Enhancement on Armor. Divine Shield: Cha Mod to enhancement bonus. Divine Might: Add Cha Modifier to weapon damage for rounds = Mod. Improved Shield Bash: Add Bull Rush to shield attack. Shield Charge: Double Shield damage when charging. Smite, Charge. For example, a 20th level Paladin with 18 Charisma + 5 for levels + 5 Inherent (Book) + 6 Enhancement (Item) + 4 Competence (Command Enchantment on Armor) = 38 (+14 Modifier) Bashing Large Steel Shield: 1d8 damage. 18 Strength: +4 to hit, +4 Damage. Power Attack for 20: -20 to hit, +20 Damage Divine Shield: +14 AC, +14 to hit, +14 Damage. Divine Might: +14 Damage for 14 rounds. Smite: +14 to hit, +20 Damage. Shield Charge: Double Damage. Charge: Attack is resolved at +34 to hit (with a +2 charge bonus, but AFTER taking the -20 penalty to hit from Power Attack) and deals 2d8 + 144 damage, before Critical. A critical hit on said charge attack would deal 3d8 + 216 damage. That's in 3.0. As you can see, some things are quite different now. For 3.5, there's a little changing that gets done. Again, the highest possible Charisma is ESSENTIAL. It's what gets the damage to such astronomical levels. Strength: 13 at least, more if you can get it. I'll assume a 13 strength for now. Charisma: 18, then go up from there. Power Attack Divine Might Extra Turning Extra Smiting Because the Heavy Shield is considered a one handed martial bludgeoning weapon when used for a shield bash, by the letter of the rules, it should be able to be used two handed. Assuming a 20th level build: Strength: 13 + 5 Inherent + 6 Enhancement: 21 (+5) Charisma: 18 + 5 Levels +5 Inherent + 6 Enhancement = 34 (+12) Bashing Heavy Steel Shield, enhanced to +5: 1d8+5 Smite: +12 to hit, +20 Damage Power Attack: -12 to hit, +24 Damage Divine Might: +12 damage Charge: +32 to hit, 1d8+71 damage. Critical hit: 2d8+142 Note that in 3.5, none of the modifiers that apply are exclusive to the shield, like they were in 3.0. This can easily be used with a Greatsword, for example. So, if your DM is still running 3.0, a Shield can be the paladin's most potent weapon. If not, then the feats and Charisma score the character has are what makes the character a powerhouse. Everything above is completely independent of elemental damage, holy damage, etc. Those will increase numbers accordingly.
Crust 08-16-04, 07:45 AM	There are still plenty of rules to exploit in 3.5. Nothing has changed in that regard. I can't imagine finding a suitable "patch" for 3.5, especially with all the updated monsters and spells.
The_Declaration 08-16-04, 07:52 AM	well, the "patch" for updating FR is called "Player's guide to Faerūn", and the one for the rules is downloadable. The difference between 3.0 & 3.5 is very small, each person shall make his own choice.
tassander 08-16-04, 07:54 AM	Just download the SRD. It's free, completely legal, and there are several nicely edited versions of it. It consists of all the rules (except advancement rules, but those haven't changed anyway) and almost all the monsters. The complete v3.5 is available for free. So, there's your "patch".:)
warlockco 08-16-04, 08:51 AM	Originally posted by tassander Just download the SRD. It's free, completely legal, and there are several nicely edited versions of it. It consists of all the rules (except advancement rules, but those haven't changed anyway) and almost all the monsters. The complete v3.5 is available for free. So, there's your "patch".:) Just as a sidenote on that free patch, it is cheaper to buy the books than to print the files. I had a friend do that, spent over $100 to have the DMG, PHB, and the MM done. She had Kinko's print them. And I don't recommend you do this at home, you Printer will HATE you. The thing I find the SRDs to be useful is for doing a list of full spell descriptions for the spells that I use. This way I have about 10 sheets with spells on them instead of wearing out my PHB to look up stuff. Then one of the guys in the gaming group wanted to run a D20 Modern game, but there was only the 1 copy for 8 people to share, I told the group about the SRDs for it, so we could at least create characters and get the ball rolling, and if the game ended up being enjoyable then we could later on actually get our own books.
Mumm-Ra 08-16-04, 10:59 AM	I printed 2 copies of the complete SRD at no cost :) ah its good to have free printing :)