Questions Of Alignment Requirements? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Questions Of Alignment Requirements? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arclight84
05-30-07, 04:40 PM Hello all,
I recently picked up a copy of Power of Faerun, its a great book filled with tons of ideas for running unconventional games. Anyhow I was paging through the Faith chapter and I came upon a new feat in there. I don't think i'm supposed to post the whole thing but it's called Heretic of the Faith. Basically it allows you to violate your deity's code of conduct. For clerics you can be two steps away from your deity's alignment without any negative effect.

It also gives a list of a few heresy's in Faerun including the Dark Moon Heresy. This heresy believes Selune and Shar are the same entity. So here are the questions:

Some prestige classes have alignment requirements for a character to access them, the Assassin for example requires any evil, which I can understand, murder and assassination is an evil act. But what about other prestige classes, and in particular the prestige classes in faiths and pantheons, clerics in the forgotten realms have (usually) three alignments that they can be to worship any given god, yet the god-specific classes require a specific alignment.

Is this a limitation by the god, and if it is why would the god allow worship by any other alignment? Does the alignment requirement really matter or is it just a way for characters to understand the mindset of the PRC? Or is the alignment there only to show that the character has faith in that specific deity?

In Faiths and Pantheons there are two prestige classes, the Nightcloak (Shar) and the Silverstar (Selune). Each has an alignment restriction (NE for shar, and CG for Selune), the question is do these alignment restrictions exist only because a cleric worships that god, and thus that god's alignment is the same as the PRC or is the alignment for something else?

The reason I ask this is I have an idea to play a Dark Moon Heretic who will gain levels in both of the above Prc's, but I obviously cannot do so with the alignment requirements in the book. Help me please is there a way? I'm not doing this for any sick power combo by the way I am doing this specifically for the roleplaying experience such a character would bring to the table.

I appreciate any comments or advice that you guys give me thanks! Oh yeah, sorry kind of a long and scattered post! My appologies in advance!
Leukrythus
05-30-07, 04:52 PM I recently picked up a copy of Power of Faerun, its a great book filled with tons of ideas for running unconventional games. Anyhow I was paging through the Faith chapter and I came upon a new feat in there. I don't think I'm supposed to post the whole thing but it's called Heretic of the Faith. Basically it allows you to violate your deity's code of conduct. For clerics you can be two steps away from your deity's alignment without any negative effect.

Over the past 2,000 years countless heresies had been violently purged by the very religions they claimed to be part of.

Why not worship a deity that you agree with... or is your character's name Marcion?
Faraer
05-30-07, 06:17 PM Those prestige classes that require a specific alignment generally represent a specific role within the priesthood held by the most devout clerics, most closely aligned with the god's ethos, much as 2nd-edition 'specialty priests'.

By the rules, the Heretic of the Faith feat doesn't let you bypass prestige class requirements. By the Realms, Power of Faerūn isn't explicit as to whether the Dark Moon Heresy is an independent organization or if its adherents are members of the mainstream Selūnite and Sharran churches, but the former is more likely. Your DM has to decide if she thinks the Heresy includes and, with the gods' consent, initiates clergy into roles identical to nightcloaks and silverstars within the mainstream churches, or else come up with some alternative scenario for this ostensibly unlikely combination.
GothicDan
05-30-07, 06:25 PM And remember that being a part of such a heresy would not be very likely looked well upon by the ranking members of the clergy that have levels in such Specialty Priest PrCs. While there's certainly a spiritual aspect, a calling, to become a deity's servant, the majority of Faerunian gods leave, by far and large, the every day ruling of their churches to their clergy.

All PrCs have a source of learning. In this case, it would be the already-existent Silverstars and Night Cloaks.
Faraer
05-30-07, 06:43 PM If I was the DM here, although I'd want to accommodate your character concept as much as possible, my suspicion is that your character is quite unusual enough as a Dark Moon Heretic, especially for a player unfamiliar with Realms religion, and I'd focus more on who the character is now and less on what might happen to him several levels in the future.
Darakhoranon
05-31-07, 05:31 PM If I was the DM here, although I'd want to accommodate your character concept as much as possible, my suspicion is that your character is quite unusual enough as a Dark Moon Heretic, especially for a player unfamiliar with Realms religion, and I'd focus more on who the character is now and less on what might happen to him several levels in the future.

Seconded.
Some "character concepts" are just plain crazy. Or does anyone here think a LG Paladin/Thrall of Graz'zt would be a good idea? Sorry, but some combinations are just NOT POSSIBLE.
Blackheart
06-02-07, 12:59 AM I stand with Dan and Faraer on this one. In itself, the heresy is unique and the combinations of the prestige classes should be an afterthought to the "now" of the game/character's advancement.

If you do want a prestige class, though, work with your DM to come up with something that is a cross of sorts between the two mentioned, or something new that you and the DM agree convey the "feel" of the Dark Moon. The name alone conjures up ideas as it is for me.

Last note.. Man, I liked me some Power of Faerūn. Definitely among my favorite 3.x FR sources.
GothicDan
06-02-07, 01:39 AM I think PoF may have been my favorite 3.X book, in fact.
DojiHoturi
06-04-07, 10:53 AM I do not like alignment systems in general.

Assassination and murder are not necessarily evil acts. Everything is in context. I might be an assassin that is there to take out the BBEG so that two nations do not have to go to war, and, in so doing, saving thousands of lives. Is that evil? I do not think so. I would even argue that it is good to do that.

I understand the placement of restrictions like alignment for game balance issues. But alignment is rarely a game balance issue and should be used as a guideline only. Or it could be used however you want to use it. Far be it from me to tell you how to play your game. And despite all I have said here, yes, I try to play within the alignment as it is written in the rules...:embarrass

2 pennies,

Doji
Leukrythus
06-04-07, 11:29 AM Assassination and murder are not necessarily evil acts.

Wow, recent events really have numbed us to what evil is.

What's next... the deliberate spreading of a potentially deadly contagion isn't evil either?
GothicDan
06-04-07, 01:12 PM The Slayer of Domiel is an Exalted assassin, basically.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arclight84 05-30-07, 04:40 PM	Hello all, I recently picked up a copy of Power of Faerun, its a great book filled with tons of ideas for running unconventional games. Anyhow I was paging through the Faith chapter and I came upon a new feat in there. I don't think i'm supposed to post the whole thing but it's called Heretic of the Faith. Basically it allows you to violate your deity's code of conduct. For clerics you can be two steps away from your deity's alignment without any negative effect. It also gives a list of a few heresy's in Faerun including the Dark Moon Heresy. This heresy believes Selune and Shar are the same entity. So here are the questions: Some prestige classes have alignment requirements for a character to access them, the Assassin for example requires any evil, which I can understand, murder and assassination is an evil act. But what about other prestige classes, and in particular the prestige classes in faiths and pantheons, clerics in the forgotten realms have (usually) three alignments that they can be to worship any given god, yet the god-specific classes require a specific alignment. Is this a limitation by the god, and if it is why would the god allow worship by any other alignment? Does the alignment requirement really matter or is it just a way for characters to understand the mindset of the PRC? Or is the alignment there only to show that the character has faith in that specific deity? In Faiths and Pantheons there are two prestige classes, the Nightcloak (Shar) and the Silverstar (Selune). Each has an alignment restriction (NE for shar, and CG for Selune), the question is do these alignment restrictions exist only because a cleric worships that god, and thus that god's alignment is the same as the PRC or is the alignment for something else? The reason I ask this is I have an idea to play a Dark Moon Heretic who will gain levels in both of the above Prc's, but I obviously cannot do so with the alignment requirements in the book. Help me please is there a way? I'm not doing this for any sick power combo by the way I am doing this specifically for the roleplaying experience such a character would bring to the table. I appreciate any comments or advice that you guys give me thanks! Oh yeah, sorry kind of a long and scattered post! My appologies in advance!
Leukrythus 05-30-07, 04:52 PM	I recently picked up a copy of Power of Faerun, its a great book filled with tons of ideas for running unconventional games. Anyhow I was paging through the Faith chapter and I came upon a new feat in there. I don't think I'm supposed to post the whole thing but it's called Heretic of the Faith. Basically it allows you to violate your deity's code of conduct. For clerics you can be two steps away from your deity's alignment without any negative effect. Over the past 2,000 years countless heresies had been violently purged by the very religions they claimed to be part of. Why not worship a deity that you agree with... or is your character's name Marcion?
Faraer 05-30-07, 06:17 PM	Those prestige classes that require a specific alignment generally represent a specific role within the priesthood held by the most devout clerics, most closely aligned with the god's ethos, much as 2nd-edition 'specialty priests'. By the rules, the Heretic of the Faith feat doesn't let you bypass prestige class requirements. By the Realms, Power of Faerūn isn't explicit as to whether the Dark Moon Heresy is an independent organization or if its adherents are members of the mainstream Selūnite and Sharran churches, but the former is more likely. Your DM has to decide if she thinks the Heresy includes and, with the gods' consent, initiates clergy into roles identical to nightcloaks and silverstars within the mainstream churches, or else come up with some alternative scenario for this ostensibly unlikely combination.
GothicDan 05-30-07, 06:25 PM	And remember that being a part of such a heresy would not be very likely looked well upon by the ranking members of the clergy that have levels in such Specialty Priest PrCs. While there's certainly a spiritual aspect, a calling, to become a deity's servant, the majority of Faerunian gods leave, by far and large, the every day ruling of their churches to their clergy. All PrCs have a source of learning. In this case, it would be the already-existent Silverstars and Night Cloaks.
Faraer 05-30-07, 06:43 PM	If I was the DM here, although I'd want to accommodate your character concept as much as possible, my suspicion is that your character is quite unusual enough as a Dark Moon Heretic, especially for a player unfamiliar with Realms religion, and I'd focus more on who the character is now and less on what might happen to him several levels in the future.
Darakhoranon 05-31-07, 05:31 PM	If I was the DM here, although I'd want to accommodate your character concept as much as possible, my suspicion is that your character is quite unusual enough as a Dark Moon Heretic, especially for a player unfamiliar with Realms religion, and I'd focus more on who the character is now and less on what might happen to him several levels in the future. Seconded. Some "character concepts" are just plain crazy. Or does anyone here think a LG Paladin/Thrall of Graz'zt would be a good idea? Sorry, but some combinations are just NOT POSSIBLE.
Blackheart 06-02-07, 12:59 AM	I stand with Dan and Faraer on this one. In itself, the heresy is unique and the combinations of the prestige classes should be an afterthought to the "now" of the game/character's advancement. If you do want a prestige class, though, work with your DM to come up with something that is a cross of sorts between the two mentioned, or something new that you and the DM agree convey the "feel" of the Dark Moon. The name alone conjures up ideas as it is for me. Last note.. Man, I liked me some Power of Faerūn. Definitely among my favorite 3.x FR sources.
GothicDan 06-02-07, 01:39 AM	I think PoF may have been my favorite 3.X book, in fact.
DojiHoturi 06-04-07, 10:53 AM	I do not like alignment systems in general. Assassination and murder are not necessarily evil acts. Everything is in context. I might be an assassin that is there to take out the BBEG so that two nations do not have to go to war, and, in so doing, saving thousands of lives. Is that evil? I do not think so. I would even argue that it is good to do that. I understand the placement of restrictions like alignment for game balance issues. But alignment is rarely a game balance issue and should be used as a guideline only. Or it could be used however you want to use it. Far be it from me to tell you how to play your game. And despite all I have said here, yes, I try to play within the alignment as it is written in the rules...:embarrass 2 pennies, Doji
Leukrythus 06-04-07, 11:29 AM	Assassination and murder are not necessarily evil acts. Wow, recent events really have numbed us to what evil is. What's next... the deliberate spreading of a potentially deadly contagion isn't evil either?
GothicDan 06-04-07, 01:12 PM	The Slayer of Domiel is an Exalted assassin, basically.