rangers and good bows... [Archive] - Wizards Community

rangers and good bows... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Belodanna Wolfbane
07-25-03, 04:55 PM I've looked at the new 3.5 ranger class and noticed how good it was at ranged attacks, but I cant find a good bow for him. could anyone point me in the right directionany suggestions would help.
primemover003
07-25-03, 05:03 PM What? There are only a couple of bows to choose from. Longbow or shortbow, or composite Long or Short. Composite (in 3.5) can have STR bonuses (mighty bows in 3.0).

If you're medium size and have a strength bonus take the composite longbow. If small and have str bonus, composite short.
Belodanna Wolfbane
07-25-03, 05:08 PM i meant magic...
avian tiefling
07-25-03, 05:37 PM in BGII: SoA, there is a composite longbow, the Heartseeker, which is a +4, and can become a +7 for 7 seconds a day.

or if you have a very lenient DM, a bow like Taulmaril would be fun to use in D&D (it's Cattie-Brie's bow from Salvatore's Drizzt saga)
Desies
07-26-03, 12:30 PM I also had a problem finding a worth while magical bow. The best I can think of is to have someone make one for you, or if your the DM just think something up!
Crust
07-26-03, 12:39 PM Interesting thread. It brings to mind a question I've been thinking of asking here...

Can anyone show me or explain to me how a bow would be useful in the hands of a PC? None of my players use bows simply because unless you have a bunch of feats, you're really only doing a paltry 1d8 (maybe a strength bonus) in damage. Is there a way to shoot a foe in the head for an instant kill? Is there a way that I could have a group of orcs use bows on my PCs as they storm a stronghold and be able to instill fear in my PCs? I mean, if bows in the hands of orcs are only doing about 1d8 damage, why should they worry about seeking shelter from the barrage??

My group is party level 12, and for them to duck behind cover against a barrage of orc arrows would be a waste of time. There's no fear of a head shot because the orcs will hardly ever score a critical hit, and 1d8 damage here and there is nothing to the warriors in the group, to say nothing of the cleric who's AC is 27. He could just waltz right out there and calmly walk up to the gate and use passwall to enter while a rainshower of arrows bounces off his armor.

No matter the level of the PCs, arrows should strike fear into them. I don't see any fear in the use of arrows in the game. Can someone enlighten me?
hippy's_return
07-26-03, 07:52 PM My group is party level 12, and for them to duck behind cover against a barrage of orc arrows would be a waste of time. There's no fear of a head shot because the orcs will hardly ever score a critical hit, and 1d8 damage here and there is nothing to the warriors in the group, to say nothing of the cleric who's AC is 27. He could just waltz right out there and calmly walk up to the gate and use passwall to enter while a rainshower of arrows bounces off his armor.

why would your level 12 characters be fighting orcs with mundane weapons anyway? to a low level group 1d8 is still quite dangerous, and theres still the fact that arrows AND bows can get enchanted and unless i misunderstand this rule then that means the enhancement bonuses stack so you end up with 1d8+10 with a +5 bow and a +5 arrow, your average orc with a regular battle axe wouldnt cause much grief to a level 12 group either

Is there a way to shoot a foe in the head for an instant kill?

is there a way to lop off a foes head for an instant kill? without going into vorpal weapons all you can do is use the death by massive damage rule or that instant kill if you roll 2 20s and another hit variant. both are achievable by bowshot

if your PCs have a high armour class then good for them but they should really be fighting stronger enemies than orcs.
to be honest, im a relatively new player and the highest level i have reached is 4, maybe bows do get underpowered at higher levels, i wouldnt know, but there is plenty of reason for a PC to use a bow (remember this is coming from a lowel level player though)

back to the initial question though, i dont think i've ever seen a decent ranged weapon of any sort in any of my books, i dont think i've ever even heard of a magic crossbow, i think the best "proper" bow ive seen was in a thing on the wizards webby called Mintiper's Chapbook (cant find it now though), it had some stories and one big catalogue of magic items, there was an okay bow there, though it wasnt exactly great, it was a +1 mighty composity longbow (+4 str bonus) and it did an area affect faerie fire on impact with any arrow. the only other thing i can suggest is lifting one from something like icewind dale 2 (at least its in 3rd ed) or just making your own
FineasBoggs
07-26-03, 08:02 PM Well with a party of that level try using Githyanki at long range, then just before the party gets there have them dimesion door away and just keep doing that. Once they have been whittled down to nothing, they may see things a little differently.
FineasBoggs
07-26-03, 08:38 PM Isn't there a LOS enchantment for bows? If not just make one.
Bazcasta
07-27-03, 12:02 AM 3.0 DMG, P. 189; left column; Oathbow

3.0 DMG, P. 185; Table 8-16: Ranged weapon special abilities:

returning
distance
shock
flaming
frost
flaming burst
icy burst
schocking burst
bane
holy
unholy
lawful
chaotic
speed
brilliant energy
Crust
07-28-03, 01:58 PM Originally posted by hippy's_return
[B]why would your level 12 characters be fighting orcs with mundane weapons anyway?

Well, my group may be 12th level, but that doesn't mean they don't encounter orcs in their travels. And my PCs don't strike mortal terror into the hearts of all creatures below a certain CR, so a tribe of orcs firing mundane arrows at a small group of humans and elves isn't uncommon. My problem is that that rainshower of arrows falling upon my PCs will not worry them in the least, and even if it did, I couldn't really do anything other than roll my 20-sided behind my screen, and when a hit occurs all I can do is roll 1d8 (and maybe a strength modifier). Where is the potential head shot? Where are the dire consequences of an arrow attack in the game?

to a low level group 1d8 is still quite dangerous, and theres still the fact that arrows AND bows can get enchanted and unless i misunderstand this rule then that means the enhancement bonuses stack so you end up with 1d8+10 with a +5 bow and a +5 arrow, your average orc with a regular battle axe wouldnt cause much grief to a level 12 group either

True. But with arrows, my PCs can't deflect them aside or step out of the way like they can against an orc's melee attack. And a whole mess of arrows raining down is as bothersome as a rainy day. That's why I hardly ever use bows in my campaign... Unless it's some talented elven archer who seems to hit everything once for the quick kill.... and if I get called on that elf's skills, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say, "I can't give you that information." Of course, I have no concrete information to give unless he has a +5 bow with 30 +5 arrows and epic bowshot feats.

if your PCs have a high armour class then good for them but they should really be fighting stronger enemies than orcs.

Fair enough, but this isn't Dragon Warrior or some other 8-bit game where the PCs never see a green slime if they venture far enough away from the starting point. Orcs are everywhere, as are a great many other monsters that my PCs slay easily. Of course, the orcs of the Bloody Eye clan I set against my group are typically at least level 4 barbarians.
hippy's_return
07-28-03, 02:13 PM fair point there crust, damn, i cant actually think of anything to throw in the face of that so good job with your argument, you win :)
Bazcasta
07-28-03, 02:33 PM Why don't you adjust th orcs so that they are harder to kill and give them magical bows?
bigbie
07-28-03, 02:49 PM Fair enough, but this isn't Dragon Warrior or some other 8-bit game where the PCs never see a green slime if they venture far enough away from the starting point. Orcs are everywhere, as are a great many other monsters that my PCs slay easily. Of course, the orcs of the Bloody Eye clan I set against my group are typically at least level 4 barbarians
IMHO:
good point but dont count your loss yet Hippies_return
Orcs wander alot of faerun, but if you are a high lvl party they are not just going to run to their deaths because thats what the random incounter table says. Granted they do have a avg int of 9
but they are not total idiots. They would need a really good reason to attack a decient lvl group. ie:a warlord that would kill them faster than the heros.
Other wise i think the roaming orcs or the pending ambush would would decide, 'maybe the next group'.
unless of course your group is totally nondescript. :)
Krimzer
07-28-03, 03:24 PM Ok, here's a few thoughts... I'm going to stay away from the idea of just giving them a bunch of magic bows and arrows.

First, improve the archers. This stuff is probably pretty obvious, but I thought I'd run through it real quick anyhow. You can determine for yourself what level you want the orcs to be, but if you want archers then make archers. Really focus on the feats that would make them more impressive. Generally useful feats include weapon focus, weapon specialization, and improved critical. Any of these can make your archers just a little more impressive. More archery focused feats include point blank shot, far shot, precise shot, rapid shot, and shot on the run. And whatever you choose from those, make sure you make use of it. If it's far shot, start the orcs out a good distance away. If it's precise, have other orcs attack in melee. Another feat is mounted archery. This seems like a real opportunity to make archers the demons they are. Have the orcs mounted on something tough, like manticores or something, so even when the party catches them the fight still isn't over.

Next, improve their equipment. Mighty bows can let orcs take advantage of their strength. Low level orcs may find crossbows more effective. Arrows treated with venom or infected with diseases can make even a low damage battle very harmful.

Finally, improve their tactics. Spread the archers out so the party can't just slaughter them all at close range. Mix them up with shamans and melee warriors to keep them shooting longer. Come up with creative terrain obstacles to slow down or even cause harm to the group. They have no trouble getting through a stone wall? Well, how about a wall of fire? How about a pit of sticky mud? How about a cloud of poisonous gas?

I hope some of this has been helpful. A good sized group of archers should really be a terror at any level.
Alisttair
07-28-03, 10:18 PM HEAD SHOT?

Roll a critical Threat
Roll a critical Threat ON the critical Threat (which is an instant kill threat)
Successfully Hit on the third D20 roll and you get the instant kill (which with an arrow would be a head shot or arrow in the heart or something)

THERE YOU GO :):D :angel:
Desies
07-29-03, 02:28 AM Just to clear something up...orcs have an average int of 8.5 not 9. (Just thought I'd get technical there)
kedi
07-29-03, 06:32 AM I must have throwen dice like a 100 times for ability scores, and I never meet an 8,5, could you explain it?
Deed
07-29-03, 08:53 AM Ah, The way I figure it in these situations is that for every 20 orcs firing arrows at the party, one will be a potential critical. I am no statistics wiz, but don't be disheartened by armor class! One in 20 will at least hit, and one in.......400 (?) will crit...i think. Feel free to correct me.
I think Bows are great. Alchemist fire arrows can REALLY mess around a character if he is armour dependant, not dexterity dependant. Characters burn like a nylon stocking. can you imagine a rain of 100 alchemist arrows? that would make their day a little tragic. and who prepares a endure fire against orcs?
Astanphaeus
07-29-03, 10:08 AM Rules Variant: Damage to Specific Areas

3.5 DMG, Pg. 27

Wounds to the head impose a -2 penalty to attack rolls, saves, and checks.

As far as I know, there's no way to make called shots to specifc body locations under 3rd edition rules.

However, in 2nd edition, a called shot garnered a -4 penalty on your attack roll. An "expert called shot", which was an attack at someone's head, hands, or other difficult location, or was a very fancy maneuver of some kind (cutting someone's swordbelt off) suffered a -8 penalty.

Expert called shots made helms very important. A -8 penalty wasn't so bad when you were going up against an AC of 10 (bare head = no armor benefit).

Incorporating some form of these rules into D&D 3 shouldn't be too difficult.

However, the combat system is supposed to be abstract, and it's designed to accomodate the heroic. Yes, a 12th level character can be pretty brazen under mundane threats... he or she is a Hero (Villain), and as such is larger than life. Commoners, on the other hand, are still going to be freaked out when subjected to a whithering hail of arrows. It's still very much a threat to them.

D&D isn't really geared to be realistic. If you want a greater degree of realism in combat, try GURPS. Therein, you will find a rule for everything. And I mean Everything.

Characters essentially always have the same hit points they started with. Disabling a body location is achieved by doing a certain percentage of a character's hit point total in damage (exact percentage determined by the specific body part). Any damage over this total is lost (you can only damage a location so much).

You suffer a called shot penalty, range penalty, and a penalty if the target is moving, which is modified by how fast it's moving. You get a bonus for aiming... unless the target moves around too much or ducks for cover. Your aiming bonus increases if you aim for consecutive rounds. You might be penalized if your attack is a "snapshot". If you're moving, that's another penalty.

So yeah. Realism. Frankly, I prefer d20. ;)

However, instant kills were possible with head shots. I had a sharpshooter character who did One Shot One Kill all the time.

Of course, he and his allies were vulnerable to the same fate. That's the problem with instant kill rules. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. ;)

(By the way, the D&D Instant Kill is also a variant)

-- A.
Crust
07-29-03, 01:27 PM OK, great replies. Lots to think about. Thanks.
TempistRane
07-29-03, 08:42 PM Ok i dont know why its so hard to make a good bow i could do it in a few seconds its not hard. You all make it seem like its some hard mah problem to do when its not.

As for the head shot thing on a 20,20 roll say they got hit in the head for a insta kill death not hard as well. Just becaues orcs are firering arrows at the PC's does not mean they are siting there doing nothing and saying " Hmm i cant wait till my tuern" thats way your Dex bonus is added they are moving and evryhting. And if they dont have a dex mod then its just dinging there armor up.
CursedMoredhel
07-30-03, 05:46 AM Elven Court Bows are pretty good i reckon
+3 or 4 to hit
mighty + 4

and when combined with say a magical quiver which keeps itself full of arrows of piercing such as Cattie-Brae's

you get +3 to hit then thier armor bonus is reduced by 4 so a +7
then it a mighty which does 1d8+4 +2 for the piercing arrow

or perhaps other arrows such as acid, poison,ice, fire which each do an extra 1d6 of thier respective damages

so that's a +7 to hit and another 6 or 1d6 damage on top
also got a critical of 3 or 4

the way i see it you've got to have arrows that complement the damage not just a hell powerful bow.

Hope that helps
Belodanna Wolfbane
08-07-03, 05:33 PM Thnx for all the suggestions guys, sorry i didnt respond to ur posts( I haven't read the post lately) One more question, where are elven court bows from(what book).
CursedMoredhel
08-07-03, 06:57 PM i think it was in the dm's core rule book 2 with all the magic items not sure tho might of been in a Dragon magazine i'll have a search but i know for sure that it's in balder's gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights aswell if you wanted to base it of that but i can't remember what book exactly. one of my ex-characters had one they were being rewarded for taking out a wizard which was assualting silverymoon with charmed orc and such and he was presentd with one as his gift altho it wasn't meant for combat that's where it founds it's use. coz the elves see them as the pinnacle of thier bow making due to the exquisite design and bows ability it's more a wallpiece to them. but my guy wasn't an elf, hence not mattering in that aspect.
avian tiefling
08-10-03, 09:14 PM this may not help, but it's worth a try.

this isn't mentioned in any book i've read, but there is a +3 Elven Court Bow in BGII: SoA
^Graff
08-10-03, 09:32 PM Even better would be the Bow of True Arrows from Sword and Fist. It has a True Strike spell cast on it, so after spending a standard action to invoke the power, you get a +20 on your next attack roll. Instant hit.

Interestingly enough, it appears that while S&F doesn't give an enchantment equivalent for the True Arrows special ability, judging by the GP and XP cost, it is equivalent to a +1 enchantment.

This should REALLY be house ruled so that your PCs don't abuse it, but when orcs can hit every time while only having to buy a bow with an enchantment equivalent to +2, it should make your PCs think twice. One shot only does 1d8 damage, but when you are hit by every single arrow that is fired at you, that damage adds up.
^Graff
08-10-03, 09:36 PM BTW, the Bow of True Arrows is useless for Rapid Shot, because you can't use the True Strike spell in conjuntion with the full attack action. So if your goal is to empty your quiver as quickly as possible, you can't use this bow. It's great for snipers, however.

Plot and Poison, a book by Green Ronin publishing, has a PrC that is essentially an assassin that uses ranged weapons, so you could take that route.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Belodanna Wolfbane 07-25-03, 04:55 PM	I've looked at the new 3.5 ranger class and noticed how good it was at ranged attacks, but I cant find a good bow for him. could anyone point me in the right directionany suggestions would help.
primemover003 07-25-03, 05:03 PM	What? There are only a couple of bows to choose from. Longbow or shortbow, or composite Long or Short. Composite (in 3.5) can have STR bonuses (mighty bows in 3.0). If you're medium size and have a strength bonus take the composite longbow. If small and have str bonus, composite short.
Belodanna Wolfbane 07-25-03, 05:08 PM	i meant magic...
avian tiefling 07-25-03, 05:37 PM	in BGII: SoA, there is a composite longbow, the Heartseeker, which is a +4, and can become a +7 for 7 seconds a day. or if you have a very lenient DM, a bow like Taulmaril would be fun to use in D&D (it's Cattie-Brie's bow from Salvatore's Drizzt saga)
Desies 07-26-03, 12:30 PM	I also had a problem finding a worth while magical bow. The best I can think of is to have someone make one for you, or if your the DM just think something up!
Crust 07-26-03, 12:39 PM	Interesting thread. It brings to mind a question I've been thinking of asking here... Can anyone show me or explain to me how a bow would be useful in the hands of a PC? None of my players use bows simply because unless you have a bunch of feats, you're really only doing a paltry 1d8 (maybe a strength bonus) in damage. Is there a way to shoot a foe in the head for an instant kill? Is there a way that I could have a group of orcs use bows on my PCs as they storm a stronghold and be able to instill fear in my PCs? I mean, if bows in the hands of orcs are only doing about 1d8 damage, why should they worry about seeking shelter from the barrage?? My group is party level 12, and for them to duck behind cover against a barrage of orc arrows would be a waste of time. There's no fear of a head shot because the orcs will hardly ever score a critical hit, and 1d8 damage here and there is nothing to the warriors in the group, to say nothing of the cleric who's AC is 27. He could just waltz right out there and calmly walk up to the gate and use passwall to enter while a rainshower of arrows bounces off his armor. No matter the level of the PCs, arrows should strike fear into them. I don't see any fear in the use of arrows in the game. Can someone enlighten me?
hippy's_return 07-26-03, 07:52 PM	My group is party level 12, and for them to duck behind cover against a barrage of orc arrows would be a waste of time. There's no fear of a head shot because the orcs will hardly ever score a critical hit, and 1d8 damage here and there is nothing to the warriors in the group, to say nothing of the cleric who's AC is 27. He could just waltz right out there and calmly walk up to the gate and use passwall to enter while a rainshower of arrows bounces off his armor. why would your level 12 characters be fighting orcs with mundane weapons anyway? to a low level group 1d8 is still quite dangerous, and theres still the fact that arrows AND bows can get enchanted and unless i misunderstand this rule then that means the enhancement bonuses stack so you end up with 1d8+10 with a +5 bow and a +5 arrow, your average orc with a regular battle axe wouldnt cause much grief to a level 12 group either Is there a way to shoot a foe in the head for an instant kill? is there a way to lop off a foes head for an instant kill? without going into vorpal weapons all you can do is use the death by massive damage rule or that instant kill if you roll 2 20s and another hit variant. both are achievable by bowshot if your PCs have a high armour class then good for them but they should really be fighting stronger enemies than orcs. to be honest, im a relatively new player and the highest level i have reached is 4, maybe bows do get underpowered at higher levels, i wouldnt know, but there is plenty of reason for a PC to use a bow (remember this is coming from a lowel level player though) back to the initial question though, i dont think i've ever seen a decent ranged weapon of any sort in any of my books, i dont think i've ever even heard of a magic crossbow, i think the best "proper" bow ive seen was in a thing on the wizards webby called Mintiper's Chapbook (cant find it now though), it had some stories and one big catalogue of magic items, there was an okay bow there, though it wasnt exactly great, it was a +1 mighty composity longbow (+4 str bonus) and it did an area affect faerie fire on impact with any arrow. the only other thing i can suggest is lifting one from something like icewind dale 2 (at least its in 3rd ed) or just making your own
FineasBoggs 07-26-03, 08:02 PM	Well with a party of that level try using Githyanki at long range, then just before the party gets there have them dimesion door away and just keep doing that. Once they have been whittled down to nothing, they may see things a little differently.
FineasBoggs 07-26-03, 08:38 PM	Isn't there a LOS enchantment for bows? If not just make one.
Bazcasta 07-27-03, 12:02 AM	3.0 DMG, P. 189; left column; Oathbow 3.0 DMG, P. 185; Table 8-16: Ranged weapon special abilities: returning distance shock flaming frost flaming burst icy burst schocking burst bane holy unholy lawful chaotic speed brilliant energy
Crust 07-28-03, 01:58 PM	Originally posted by hippy's_return [B]why would your level 12 characters be fighting orcs with mundane weapons anyway? Well, my group may be 12th level, but that doesn't mean they don't encounter orcs in their travels. And my PCs don't strike mortal terror into the hearts of all creatures below a certain CR, so a tribe of orcs firing mundane arrows at a small group of humans and elves isn't uncommon. My problem is that that rainshower of arrows falling upon my PCs will not worry them in the least, and even if it did, I couldn't really do anything other than roll my 20-sided behind my screen, and when a hit occurs all I can do is roll 1d8 (and maybe a strength modifier). Where is the potential head shot? Where are the dire consequences of an arrow attack in the game? to a low level group 1d8 is still quite dangerous, and theres still the fact that arrows AND bows can get enchanted and unless i misunderstand this rule then that means the enhancement bonuses stack so you end up with 1d8+10 with a +5 bow and a +5 arrow, your average orc with a regular battle axe wouldnt cause much grief to a level 12 group either True. But with arrows, my PCs can't deflect them aside or step out of the way like they can against an orc's melee attack. And a whole mess of arrows raining down is as bothersome as a rainy day. That's why I hardly ever use bows in my campaign... Unless it's some talented elven archer who seems to hit everything once for the quick kill.... and if I get called on that elf's skills, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say, "I can't give you that information." Of course, I have no concrete information to give unless he has a +5 bow with 30 +5 arrows and epic bowshot feats. if your PCs have a high armour class then good for them but they should really be fighting stronger enemies than orcs. Fair enough, but this isn't Dragon Warrior or some other 8-bit game where the PCs never see a green slime if they venture far enough away from the starting point. Orcs are everywhere, as are a great many other monsters that my PCs slay easily. Of course, the orcs of the Bloody Eye clan I set against my group are typically at least level 4 barbarians.
hippy's_return 07-28-03, 02:13 PM	fair point there crust, damn, i cant actually think of anything to throw in the face of that so good job with your argument, you win :)
Bazcasta 07-28-03, 02:33 PM	Why don't you adjust th orcs so that they are harder to kill and give them magical bows?
bigbie 07-28-03, 02:49 PM	Fair enough, but this isn't Dragon Warrior or some other 8-bit game where the PCs never see a green slime if they venture far enough away from the starting point. Orcs are everywhere, as are a great many other monsters that my PCs slay easily. Of course, the orcs of the Bloody Eye clan I set against my group are typically at least level 4 barbarians IMHO: good point but dont count your loss yet Hippies_return Orcs wander alot of faerun, but if you are a high lvl party they are not just going to run to their deaths because thats what the random incounter table says. Granted they do have a avg int of 9 but they are not total idiots. They would need a really good reason to attack a decient lvl group. ie:a warlord that would kill them faster than the heros. Other wise i think the roaming orcs or the pending ambush would would decide, 'maybe the next group'. unless of course your group is totally nondescript. :)
Krimzer 07-28-03, 03:24 PM	Ok, here's a few thoughts... I'm going to stay away from the idea of just giving them a bunch of magic bows and arrows. First, improve the archers. This stuff is probably pretty obvious, but I thought I'd run through it real quick anyhow. You can determine for yourself what level you want the orcs to be, but if you want archers then make archers. Really focus on the feats that would make them more impressive. Generally useful feats include weapon focus, weapon specialization, and improved critical. Any of these can make your archers just a little more impressive. More archery focused feats include point blank shot, far shot, precise shot, rapid shot, and shot on the run. And whatever you choose from those, make sure you make use of it. If it's far shot, start the orcs out a good distance away. If it's precise, have other orcs attack in melee. Another feat is mounted archery. This seems like a real opportunity to make archers the demons they are. Have the orcs mounted on something tough, like manticores or something, so even when the party catches them the fight still isn't over. Next, improve their equipment. Mighty bows can let orcs take advantage of their strength. Low level orcs may find crossbows more effective. Arrows treated with venom or infected with diseases can make even a low damage battle very harmful. Finally, improve their tactics. Spread the archers out so the party can't just slaughter them all at close range. Mix them up with shamans and melee warriors to keep them shooting longer. Come up with creative terrain obstacles to slow down or even cause harm to the group. They have no trouble getting through a stone wall? Well, how about a wall of fire? How about a pit of sticky mud? How about a cloud of poisonous gas? I hope some of this has been helpful. A good sized group of archers should really be a terror at any level.
Alisttair 07-28-03, 10:18 PM	HEAD SHOT? Roll a critical Threat Roll a critical Threat ON the critical Threat (which is an instant kill threat) Successfully Hit on the third D20 roll and you get the instant kill (which with an arrow would be a head shot or arrow in the heart or something) THERE YOU GO :):D :angel:
Desies 07-29-03, 02:28 AM	Just to clear something up...orcs have an average int of 8.5 not 9. (Just thought I'd get technical there)
kedi 07-29-03, 06:32 AM	I must have throwen dice like a 100 times for ability scores, and I never meet an 8,5, could you explain it?
Deed 07-29-03, 08:53 AM	Ah, The way I figure it in these situations is that for every 20 orcs firing arrows at the party, one will be a potential critical. I am no statistics wiz, but don't be disheartened by armor class! One in 20 will at least hit, and one in.......400 (?) will crit...i think. Feel free to correct me. I think Bows are great. Alchemist fire arrows can REALLY mess around a character if he is armour dependant, not dexterity dependant. Characters burn like a nylon stocking. can you imagine a rain of 100 alchemist arrows? that would make their day a little tragic. and who prepares a endure fire against orcs?
Astanphaeus 07-29-03, 10:08 AM	Rules Variant: Damage to Specific Areas 3.5 DMG, Pg. 27 Wounds to the head impose a -2 penalty to attack rolls, saves, and checks. As far as I know, there's no way to make called shots to specifc body locations under 3rd edition rules. However, in 2nd edition, a called shot garnered a -4 penalty on your attack roll. An "expert called shot", which was an attack at someone's head, hands, or other difficult location, or was a very fancy maneuver of some kind (cutting someone's swordbelt off) suffered a -8 penalty. Expert called shots made helms very important. A -8 penalty wasn't so bad when you were going up against an AC of 10 (bare head = no armor benefit). Incorporating some form of these rules into D&D 3 shouldn't be too difficult. However, the combat system is supposed to be abstract, and it's designed to accomodate the heroic. Yes, a 12th level character can be pretty brazen under mundane threats... he or she is a Hero (Villain), and as such is larger than life. Commoners, on the other hand, are still going to be freaked out when subjected to a whithering hail of arrows. It's still very much a threat to them. D&D isn't really geared to be realistic. If you want a greater degree of realism in combat, try GURPS. Therein, you will find a rule for everything. And I mean Everything. Characters essentially always have the same hit points they started with. Disabling a body location is achieved by doing a certain percentage of a character's hit point total in damage (exact percentage determined by the specific body part). Any damage over this total is lost (you can only damage a location so much). You suffer a called shot penalty, range penalty, and a penalty if the target is moving, which is modified by how fast it's moving. You get a bonus for aiming... unless the target moves around too much or ducks for cover. Your aiming bonus increases if you aim for consecutive rounds. You might be penalized if your attack is a "snapshot". If you're moving, that's another penalty. So yeah. Realism. Frankly, I prefer d20. ;) However, instant kills were possible with head shots. I had a sharpshooter character who did One Shot One Kill all the time. Of course, he and his allies were vulnerable to the same fate. That's the problem with instant kill rules. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. ;) (By the way, the D&D Instant Kill is also a variant) -- A.
Crust 07-29-03, 01:27 PM	OK, great replies. Lots to think about. Thanks.
TempistRane 07-29-03, 08:42 PM	Ok i dont know why its so hard to make a good bow i could do it in a few seconds its not hard. You all make it seem like its some hard mah problem to do when its not. As for the head shot thing on a 20,20 roll say they got hit in the head for a insta kill death not hard as well. Just becaues orcs are firering arrows at the PC's does not mean they are siting there doing nothing and saying " Hmm i cant wait till my tuern" thats way your Dex bonus is added they are moving and evryhting. And if they dont have a dex mod then its just dinging there armor up.
CursedMoredhel 07-30-03, 05:46 AM	Elven Court Bows are pretty good i reckon +3 or 4 to hit mighty + 4 and when combined with say a magical quiver which keeps itself full of arrows of piercing such as Cattie-Brae's you get +3 to hit then thier armor bonus is reduced by 4 so a +7 then it a mighty which does 1d8+4 +2 for the piercing arrow or perhaps other arrows such as acid, poison,ice, fire which each do an extra 1d6 of thier respective damages so that's a +7 to hit and another 6 or 1d6 damage on top also got a critical of 3 or 4 the way i see it you've got to have arrows that complement the damage not just a hell powerful bow. Hope that helps
Belodanna Wolfbane 08-07-03, 05:33 PM	Thnx for all the suggestions guys, sorry i didnt respond to ur posts( I haven't read the post lately) One more question, where are elven court bows from(what book).
CursedMoredhel 08-07-03, 06:57 PM	i think it was in the dm's core rule book 2 with all the magic items not sure tho might of been in a Dragon magazine i'll have a search but i know for sure that it's in balder's gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights aswell if you wanted to base it of that but i can't remember what book exactly. one of my ex-characters had one they were being rewarded for taking out a wizard which was assualting silverymoon with charmed orc and such and he was presentd with one as his gift altho it wasn't meant for combat that's where it founds it's use. coz the elves see them as the pinnacle of thier bow making due to the exquisite design and bows ability it's more a wallpiece to them. but my guy wasn't an elf, hence not mattering in that aspect.
avian tiefling 08-10-03, 09:14 PM	this may not help, but it's worth a try. this isn't mentioned in any book i've read, but there is a +3 Elven Court Bow in BGII: SoA
^Graff 08-10-03, 09:32 PM	Even better would be the Bow of True Arrows from Sword and Fist. It has a True Strike spell cast on it, so after spending a standard action to invoke the power, you get a +20 on your next attack roll. Instant hit. Interestingly enough, it appears that while S&F doesn't give an enchantment equivalent for the True Arrows special ability, judging by the GP and XP cost, it is equivalent to a +1 enchantment. This should REALLY be house ruled so that your PCs don't abuse it, but when orcs can hit every time while only having to buy a bow with an enchantment equivalent to +2, it should make your PCs think twice. One shot only does 1d8 damage, but when you are hit by every single arrow that is fired at you, that damage adds up.
^Graff 08-10-03, 09:36 PM	BTW, the Bow of True Arrows is useless for Rapid Shot, because you can't use the True Strike spell in conjuntion with the full attack action. So if your goal is to empty your quiver as quickly as possible, you can't use this bow. It's great for snipers, however. Plot and Poison, a book by Green Ronin publishing, has a PrC that is essentially an assassin that uses ranged weapons, so you could take that route.