Revisionist History [Archive] - Wizards Community

Revisionist History [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Iakhovas
07-21-03, 08:37 PM While reading a new article posted on the WOTC website this afternoon--The Alabaster Staff: A History of Unther (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/unther)--I noticed a subtle and disturbing revision to the history of the Old Empires.

When describing how the gods of the Mulhorand and Untheric pantheons arrived on toril, the article reads:Through the intervention of Ao, the overpower of Faerūn's gods, the slaves' deities sent powerful but mortal versions of themselves through alternate methods -- using the Astral Plane to thereby bypass the Artificers' barrierThis is a direct contradiction to existing Realms canon. In what looks like yet another deliberate attempt to erase all mention of Spelljammer from Realms history, Tom Costa now credits the Astral Plane as the means by which these pantheons arrived on Toril.

This new history clearly contradicts the 2nd-Edition sourcebook Powers and Pantheons p.94:Since the Imaskari sorcerors had created an unbreachable magical barrier between the two worlds that denied the entrance of the gods of the Mulan into Realmspace, the only way the pantheons could enter Abeir-Toril was to send avatars through Wildspace accompanied by Ptah.Clearly this issue is of more importance to some than it might be to others. But to those of us that enjoy the rich history of the Old Empires, and expect continuity between editions, it is a slap in the face. I'll give Mr. Costa the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to him not doing his homework.
Kuje31
07-21-03, 08:49 PM Sigh. :(

Well realmspace doesn't exist any more and neither does the Great Ring, at least for FR, so of course WOTC is going to write out those parts of the world and the history. It's sad to see but all we can do is change it back to the way it used to be :(
Patrakis
07-22-03, 01:01 PM And what a great thing this is. I sure wish the spelljammer universe would have never been invented.

As for it being Canon, well, the only thing canon to me is what a DM writes in his own version of the realms.
Masakado
07-22-03, 03:09 PM Originally posted by Iakhovas
In what looks like yet another deliberate attempt to erase all mention of Spelljammer from Realms history.

I was never really crazy about the Spelljammer setting, so this is no big loss to me.

What is kinda silly is that there are existing references to Spelljamming in the FRCS, so no revisionist's history is really necessary, IMO.

Originally posted by Iakhovas
This new history clearly contradicts the 2nd-Edition sourcebook Powers and Pantheons p.94

Given the new 3.5 cosmology & the new 3.0 FR gods book, I'd say that anything from Powers & Pantheons is being taken, or can be taken, with a grain of salt.
Faraer
07-22-03, 03:32 PM Tom Costa not doing his homework isn't something that happens. This line would certainly have been directed from above. And it's not true that Realmspace no longer exists.
TomCosta
07-23-03, 04:28 PM The reference change comes from the 3E FRCS, p. 262. Given that Ptah dwells (dwelt) on the Ethereal -- which is also arguably closer to Wildspace given the Planescape Ethereal Plane supplement -- that might have been a better choice in retrospect for the designers (and frankly one I would have suggested given the reality of the changes in 3E), but it is what it is. In any case, using the Astral and Wildspace are not necessarily mutually exclusive. In fact, it would make sense that some weird combination of travel was used. The Imaskari were not stupid and would have planned for most direct routes, including, most likely, a straight shot through Wildspace. Barring that, it is a simple turn of phrase to stick Wildspace back in there.
Purple Dragon Knight
07-23-03, 06:08 PM Well done Tom! :)

I knew you'd find an explanation! I would have simply said "To heck with that Spelljammin' kkkkkkkkkkrraaaaaap!" in a heavy fat bastardish scottish accent and leave it at that... ;) I commend you for even trying to please the few Spelljammer veterans out there... (maybe I'll get all giddy about Spelljamming if they bring it to the 3.5 FR in a well done manner, but for now, I'm happy with those flying ships remaining in the realms of myth and legend...)
Iakhovas
07-23-03, 07:20 PM Thank you for replying Tom. Clearly you did do your homework, relying on the 3rd-Edition reference you noted on p. 262 of the FRCS. My appologies for stating otherwise.

Unfortunately the fact remains, that *someone* changed this history. Bottom line is that there isn't much I can do about it. Oh well. :sad:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Iakhovas 07-21-03, 08:37 PM	While reading a new article posted on the WOTC website this afternoon--The Alabaster Staff: A History of Unther (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/unther)--I noticed a subtle and disturbing revision to the history of the Old Empires. When describing how the gods of the Mulhorand and Untheric pantheons arrived on toril, the article reads:Through the intervention of Ao, the overpower of Faerūn's gods, the slaves' deities sent powerful but mortal versions of themselves through alternate methods -- using the Astral Plane to thereby bypass the Artificers' barrierThis is a direct contradiction to existing Realms canon. In what looks like yet another deliberate attempt to erase all mention of Spelljammer from Realms history, Tom Costa now credits the Astral Plane as the means by which these pantheons arrived on Toril. This new history clearly contradicts the 2nd-Edition sourcebook Powers and Pantheons p.94:Since the Imaskari sorcerors had created an unbreachable magical barrier between the two worlds that denied the entrance of the gods of the Mulan into Realmspace, the only way the pantheons could enter Abeir-Toril was to send avatars through Wildspace accompanied by Ptah.Clearly this issue is of more importance to some than it might be to others. But to those of us that enjoy the rich history of the Old Empires, and expect continuity between editions, it is a slap in the face. I'll give Mr. Costa the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to him not doing his homework.
Kuje31 07-21-03, 08:49 PM	Sigh. :( Well realmspace doesn't exist any more and neither does the Great Ring, at least for FR, so of course WOTC is going to write out those parts of the world and the history. It's sad to see but all we can do is change it back to the way it used to be :(
Patrakis 07-22-03, 01:01 PM	And what a great thing this is. I sure wish the spelljammer universe would have never been invented. As for it being Canon, well, the only thing canon to me is what a DM writes in his own version of the realms.
Masakado 07-22-03, 03:09 PM	Originally posted by Iakhovas In what looks like yet another deliberate attempt to erase all mention of Spelljammer from Realms history. I was never really crazy about the Spelljammer setting, so this is no big loss to me. What is kinda silly is that there are existing references to Spelljamming in the FRCS, so no revisionist's history is really necessary, IMO. Originally posted by Iakhovas This new history clearly contradicts the 2nd-Edition sourcebook Powers and Pantheons p.94 Given the new 3.5 cosmology & the new 3.0 FR gods book, I'd say that anything from Powers & Pantheons is being taken, or can be taken, with a grain of salt.
Faraer 07-22-03, 03:32 PM	Tom Costa not doing his homework isn't something that happens. This line would certainly have been directed from above. And it's not true that Realmspace no longer exists.
TomCosta 07-23-03, 04:28 PM	The reference change comes from the 3E FRCS, p. 262. Given that Ptah dwells (dwelt) on the Ethereal -- which is also arguably closer to Wildspace given the Planescape Ethereal Plane supplement -- that might have been a better choice in retrospect for the designers (and frankly one I would have suggested given the reality of the changes in 3E), but it is what it is. In any case, using the Astral and Wildspace are not necessarily mutually exclusive. In fact, it would make sense that some weird combination of travel was used. The Imaskari were not stupid and would have planned for most direct routes, including, most likely, a straight shot through Wildspace. Barring that, it is a simple turn of phrase to stick Wildspace back in there.
Purple Dragon Knight 07-23-03, 06:08 PM	Well done Tom! :) I knew you'd find an explanation! I would have simply said "To heck with that Spelljammin' kkkkkkkkkkrraaaaaap!" in a heavy fat bastardish scottish accent and leave it at that... ;) I commend you for even trying to please the few Spelljammer veterans out there... (maybe I'll get all giddy about Spelljamming if they bring it to the 3.5 FR in a well done manner, but for now, I'm happy with those flying ships remaining in the realms of myth and legend...)
Iakhovas 07-23-03, 07:20 PM	Thank you for replying Tom. Clearly you did do your homework, relying on the 3rd-Edition reference you noted on p. 262 of the FRCS. My appologies for stating otherwise. Unfortunately the fact remains, that someone changed this history. Bottom line is that there isn't much I can do about it. Oh well. :sad: