Post/Author/DateTime	Post
About Yea High 07-10-03, 03:54 AM	No, seriously. Those of you that do not have Dungeon Magazine issue 101, get in your El Caminos, scoot down to the local geekstore, and grab it. Dungeon Masters only - adventure spoilers below. Prison of the Firebringer has my vote for being the NASTIEST freaking Playa-Killa this side of the original Tomb of Horrors. The only difference is that Firebringer does its damage all at the end, wielded by the capable hands of an alarmingly annoyed Slaad lord. Put it this way: the 5-man party I routinely tortu--errrr--D.M. is a proud group of folks, including my wife, and my best friend of 15 years. Not a single member has been with the group less than 3 years. They have teamwork down to an art form, can read each others minds and finish one anothers sentences. They came into Prison of the Firebringer with high confidence and a small number of interesting back stories - one of which was my wife's character's carefully cultivated on-again, off-again romance with Randal Morn of Daggerdale. They swept into the adventure, morale high. Orichalxos the beholder? No problem! Beast of Nine Flames, the Fiendish Pyrohydra of Legend? Very little sweat - one death - easily solved with a Raise Dead spell. Bazim-Gorag the Firebringer? Five P.C.s dead - in seven rounds . Seven rounds. Brutal. Now granted, they probably made their only mistake of the game not going into the encounter fully healed... (That and trying to use a scroll of Feeblemind on a two-headed creature) ...but man. The bad news is I'm still sleeping on the couch, three days later. The good news is - ladies - Randal Morn is back on the market! ... Say, Rich, where do you live again? :fight!: (J.K... great job. Holla!)
Dargoth 07-10-03, 04:08 AM	"The bad news is I'm still sleeping on the couch, three days later." LOL!
About Yea High 07-10-03, 04:47 AM	The hazard, one supposes, of gaming with one's spouse. Don't believe the hype! It ain't a "I'll be Elminster if you'll be the Simbul" role-playing fantasy every day of the week!
Masakado 07-10-03, 08:13 AM	We ran through it a few days ago & had a blast. Ran the BBEG as a Critical Threat for laughs & he blasted all of us. My Aasimar fighter got imoliated. Good thing we opted for the sneaky, diplomatic angle to take care of that matter. Our Half-Elf Cleric of Tymora / Mystic Wanderer spoke with Nemehl's ghost about the Firebringer. Bazim-Gorag's rep scared the stew out of us & the six of us immediately began preparing options for successfully getting ourselves out of the mess we were in, and at the same time, avoiding a confrontation with the Firebringer at all costs. It was tricky, but heroism & quick thinking prevailed.
loki87 07-10-03, 10:23 AM	Sounds like I'll be picking this issue up for my next high-level campaign! :smirk: Nice read btw! Hope you're not on the couch too long!
deadite 07-10-03, 11:29 AM	Ookah! What makes Bazim-Gorag so deadly? What kind of slaadi is he, any levels or templates applied to him? I read a small part about him in the Silver marches and thought it would make a fun side adventure. I never buy magazines, I'd have to travel to amsterdam to find a store that sells em... :(
Nighttfall 07-10-03, 11:59 AM	Bah. You obviously have run the BEST of Necromancer Games has to offer. Rappan Athuk. Tomb of Abysthor. Necropolis (especially that one). Once your players have run through any one of those, the Slaadi Lord will be a cake walk. ;)
Crust 07-10-03, 12:02 PM	That's great that your players were all dead in seven rounds, but that was your decision, not theirs. As for the Dungeon magazines, I've never really been interested in them... Until #100. I plan on running through the Lich Queen adventure in the near future with my group, and after reading about this Firebringer adventure, I'm definitely picking up Dungeon 101. What a joy it would be to be able to write games and get paid for it! There will come a time when I get enough ambition to put my campaigns and modules on disk and try to sell myself. Where would one begin?
WotC_RichBaker 07-10-03, 12:41 PM	I have to say, I was pretty alarmed when I saw the title of this thread. Glad to find out we're talking about Prison of the Firebringer. The whole notion behind the scenario is simple: Can a 15th-level party (give or take) beat a CR 21 monster, given all the time in the world to buff, prepare, and scout out the situation? When I wrote that final encounter, I wasn't ruling out the possibility that the PCs might go off and drop 30,000 or 40,000 gp on ten scrolls of summon monster IX in order to drive a herd of greater earth elementals into the room ahead of them, or do something equally unfair. So Bazim-Gorag is TOUGH, and the encounter is designed for a thoroughly prepared party (although I think I provided plenty of clues in the adventure to warn the players that they'd better be ready when they go through the last door). Anyway, hope you enjoyed the adventure. And if you're sleeping on the couch -- man, don't blame me for that.
About Yea High 07-10-03, 02:01 PM	The pain is mostly tongue-in-cheek, but thanks for your concern, all. Hindsight being what it is, my players understood they should have been WAY more prepared. But try to tell a close-knit group that routinely makes mincemeat of giants they need to plan ahead better... and the sound of scoffing doth commence. No more. Deadite: Bazim-Gorag, as Rich said, is CR 21... though the fact that the bastard has two heads makes for an interesting encounter. It's like dude has a permanent 3.0 Haste spell cast on his arse, with regard to being able to do two things at once. Plus, as I said, spells like Feeblemind are only a tad effective. Nasty. Crust: Ja, I take full responsibility for their demise, potshots at Richard aside. I'm one of those "roll it right there on the board" DM's, and I never - ever - fudge a roll. Granted, death can come calling for characters at odd times (and who ever said death was a fair mistress?), but the Dice Gods are usually quite karmic. Plus, when players think their DM can change numbers "behind the curtain", then if they DO die... then it IS ultimately my fault. My experience has been that players enjoy the game all that much more if they realize their choices - good or bad - will have a real impact on their characters' success. It's not just a story they're wandering through - it's a story they they are shaping. They see the fruits of their actions right there, on the board, especially if the dice play out. Trust me, the highs are all that much higher. Unless you're fighting Bazim-Gorag, that is.
Crust 07-11-03, 12:22 PM	:confused: My group (who at the time numbered three - a male elven wizard 14, a male human cleric of Mystra 10/spellfire channeler 4, and a male half-elf ranger 1/fighter 8/tempest 2 - party level 13! encountered a CR 20 beholder mage who could cast 7th level spells. The eye tyrant was served by 5 9th level sorcerer dark nagas. The beholder could loose as many as 5 different spells (excluding worthless cantrips) in one single round. He had shield, mage armor, spell turning, major globe, protection from fire AND electricity, and stoneskin cast upon himself before he entered the fray, and he had a prismatic eye floating about him for a free action prismatic beam once a round. Once combat began, the beholder threw 1 round's worth of spells at the group, including fireball, a maximized magic missile, Mordankainen's sword, cone of cold, and chain lightning. Once the PCs attacked, combined with the spellfire channeler's rapid blast, the tempest's multiple attacks, and the wizard's various spells, the beholder was taking too much damage to even attempt a concentration check each round, so in it's final moments, it desperately lashed out with it's remaining two eye beams (disintegrate and telekinesis thrust). Both beams failed in their intent, and the CR 20 monster was slain within 5 rounds by a party of 13 average levels. I gotta get this new Dungeon mag. I have to see how this CR 21 monster compares to a 7th level beholder mage.
Crust 07-11-03, 12:24 PM	:confused: My group (who at the time numbered three - a male elven wizard 14, a male human cleric of Mystra 10/spellfire channeler 4, and a male half-elf ranger 1/fighter 8/tempest 2 - party level 13! encountered a CR 20 beholder mage who could cast 7th level spells. The eye tyrant was served by 5 9th level sorcerer dark nagas. The beholder could loose as many as 5 different spells (excluding worthless cantrips) in one single round. He had shield, mage armor, spell turning, major globe, protection from fire AND electricity, and stoneskin cast upon himself before he entered the fray, and he had a prismatic eye floating about him for a free action prismatic beam once a round. Once combat began, the beholder threw 1 round's worth of spells at the group, including fireball, a maximized magic missile, Mordankainen's sword, cone of cold, and chain lightning. Once the PCs attacked, combined with the spellfire channeler's rapid blast, the tempest's multiple attacks, and the wizard's various spells, wands, rods and rings, the beholder was taking too much damage to even attempt a concentration check each round, so in it's final moments, it desperately lashed out with it's remaining two eye beams (disintegrate and telekinesis thrust). Both beams failed in their intent, and the CR 20 monster was slain within 5 rounds by a party of 13 average levels. The nagas were mopped up as they either cowered away from the awful battle, or made lame attempts to be nuisances (sp?) with lightning bolts and magic missiles. I gotta get this new Dungeon mag. I have to see how this CR 21 monster compares to a 7th level beholder mage.
Crust 07-11-03, 12:26 PM	Originally posted by About Yea High Crust: Ja, I take full responsibility for their demise, potshots at Richard aside. I'm one of those "roll it right there on the board" DM's, and I never - ever - fudge a roll. Granted, death can come calling for characters at odd times (and who ever said death was a fair mistress?), but the Dice Gods are usually quite karmic. Plus, when players think their DM can change numbers "behind the curtain", then if they DO die... then it IS ultimately my fault. My experience has been that players enjoy the game all that much more if they realize their choices - good or bad - will have a real impact on their characters' success. It's not just a story they're wandering through - it's a story they they are shaping. They see the fruits of their actions right there, on the board, especially if the dice play out. Trust me, the highs are all that much higher. Unless you're fighting Bazim-Gorag, that is. I know what you're saying, but it's not about die rolls. It's about what you throw at your PCs.
Masakado 07-11-03, 01:47 PM	Originally posted by Crust Once combat began, the beholder threw 1 round's worth of spells at the group, including fireball, a maximized magic missile, Mordankainen's sword, cone of cold, and chain lightning. Your party was, unbeknownst to them, tailor-made for that particular encounter. The Beholder wasn't bright enough to cast a bunch of AoE spells, with the exception of the Fireball & maybe the Cone of Cold, & the Spellfire Channeler probably had a field day absorbing spells & returning fire as rapid-blast raw magic. By the time the Beholder used it's eye beams (which karmically failed), the encounter was pretty much over. The Slaad Lord's arsenal is pretty direct, up close, personal, and it has a bucket load of Hit Points. We had 6 level 13 characters when we played the Critical Threat session, & as I mentioned before, Bazim-Gorag pan-fried the entire party. Our party, which included a Fire Genasi Sorceress (who with any other opponant would have been horrifically effective against her foes) was not so blessed when squaring off against Bazim-Gorag. But, as Takeda Shingen used to say, "That's war." We can't always be prepared for what happens, or what we'll face at the endgame of a session. Sometimes you're the windshield & sometimes you're the gnat. On a totally comedic level, our DM never told us the name of the adventure we were running. As it began to dawn on the party that Bazim-Gorag was a fire-based Slaad Lord, the Fire Genasi Sorceress in our party, who had been extremely effective in the early goings of the session, began to get noticably uneasy. ;) That's when we decided to go with guile & diplomacy, rather than face certain death at the hands of the Firebringer. :D
Crust 07-12-03, 05:45 PM	Excellent response. You're right. I suppose it was tailor made. What I was speaking on was the fact that this CR 21 monster has some 400 hp, and is capable of a great deal more damage than the beholder mage. I think the monster's CR should be a bit higher.
Masakado 07-13-03, 12:46 AM	Originally posted by Crust Excellent response. You're right. I suppose it was tailor made. That, and your party sounds like it's teamwork was beyond pristine, which made the fight all that much shorter. I love it when everyone knows their assigmnent, & the attack strategy goes off without a hitch. I didn't want it to seem that you gift-wrapped that encounter for them, only that on that given occasion they had the perfect mix of abilities to deal with that situation. Sometimes you're fortunate like that, & sometimes you aren't. We knew from our advanced information gathering that the Firebringer would probably murder us all, so it's not like we decided to use guile instead of force: it was our only viable option. ;) Originally posted by Crust What I was speaking on was the fact that this CR 21 monster has some 400 hp, and is capable of a great deal more damage than the beholder mage. I think the monster's CR should be a bit higher. Ah. In response to that, I offer this. This afternoon we ran the same Critical Threat, only we ran it with 20th level versions of ourselves & the Fire Genasi Sorceress traded herself out for a 20 wizard. Four out of the party of six survived (I died again..) & the Firebringer was killed. I'd say that CR21 is about right, especially if, as Rich mentioned before, the party is well prepared for the encounter. If not, they'll be history.