Roleplayers vs. Gamers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Roleplayers vs. Gamers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rigonaric
03-22-05, 03:53 AM I've been playing World of Warcraft recently and I've been noticing some differences between myself and a lot of my friends that play. For instance, I actually read the dialogue that goes along with the quests, I don't do things like do the same quest 2000 times (this actually happened) to get my reputation up with some faction, or the same instance again and again until I get a particular item to add to my collection, or for that matter stand around and kill the same guys who endlessly respawn for my convenience to get my level up, and you won't find me complaining endlessly because my class is underpowered in pvp. The more I think about it the more I feel like I have a different approach to games than most of these people and I think the fundamental difference is that I was brought up on roleplaying games like d&d. I appreciate things like plot, atmoshpere, and character development. So I'm here now to see if anybody else out there shares this feeling. I would like, someday to see an online multiplayer game which is more of a roleplaying game. I've been pitching it to my friends and they don't seem to think it would work but that's because they're "gamers" not roleplayers. Imagine a game where you create an actual unique life of a character. Instead of making a hunter and grinding to 60 and being just like every other level 60 hunter and having done all the same stuff imagine a game where once a quest was accomplished (assuming the nature of the quest was such that it doesn't make sense to repeat it) nobody else could do that quest. Once an npc is killed he doesn't come back. And for that matter once your player is killed he doesn't come back. The gamer can't even comprehend this situation. He says things like "but then everyone would quit playing when their character dies." But the roleplayer understands that his character might die and if it does he will just make a new one. It's a sad moment but that's part of the experience. If charcters can't die there is no fear of death. No motivation to not do stupid things which will probably get yourself killed. And without fear there can be no courage. And without courage there are no great deeds. Imagine what an accomplishment a level 60 character (or equivilent) would be in my game. Even completing a difficult quest would be an accomplishment and would be that much more rewarding. Your characters could have reputations as dragons slayers or troll hunters or accompishers of great deeds. Players could even rise to positions of power such as generals or kings. There could be an entire power structure and economy made up entirely of player characters, and since gamers wouldn't play because they wouldn't want to lose their precious character to something as trivial as death they would all be role players which would mean that there would actually be dialogue and interaction that fit the characters and the situations and the whole thing would be a grand work of art instead of just something to occupy your time. These are just some of the ideas I have for this but the details arn't the important thing. The important thing is that there be an online platform designed for roleplayers and not gamers (as described earlier). So I'm writing this to see if anybody else feels the same way I do. Maybe something like this exists. If so let me know. Otherwise let me know if you're sympathetic to the cause and if you are then spread the word. If we can get a little movement going I think we could get one of these companies to make it happen.
jotawiz
03-22-05, 07:15 AM I dont have any doubts that WOW is an excelent game, but as you said theres little space for you to role play, reason i dont play it. NWN the Computer game let you make a persistent World online where you can be the DM. Theres gonna be a NWN2 and i hope that they keep the DM part of the game. You could always join a group of people and make your one proper PW Server.
Faraer
03-22-05, 01:19 PM Most of the people who play MMORPGs at present don't roleplay. MMORPGs are so expensive to produce that they have to aim for as large an audience as possible.

I don't know why the first of those is so. Partly because it's easy to see the MMORPG treadmill as a system to be beaten (a gameist approach); partly because (though this doesn't explain anything) some people can more easily find immediacy in playing an avatar rather than a character. And yet these same people do appreciate setting, plot and character in other contexts, and they appreciate setting enough in MMRPGs to play those with graphics rather than text MUDs (assuming the appeal isn't solely bright moving shapes on the screen).

There are games like the one you're looking for, but they're not the technologically latest MMORPGs. Look at www.skotos.net and legacy.ultimainfo.net. To do this on a larger-scale commercial basis it would be necessary to charge a larger monthly fee for the added GM work, which will happen sooner or later. Games publishers see the revenues of EverQuest and aren't motivated to risk changing the model, though, even in much more subtle ways than you're proposing. Any company spending money on the Realms licence (to keep this on topic) would almost certainly play safe with the type of game and so the likely playerbase: which means I'm sure not to play the Eberron-set D&D Online and am glad there's no Realms MMORPG.

Permanent character death would put off a lot of potential roleplayers, though, who are quite able to separate character from player fear of death and wouldn't be inclined to put time into developing a character who could be killed by chance, latency, or other players' whims.
ClobberinTime
03-22-05, 02:06 PM I don't know its sometimes fun to just make a pretty random build and see if you can make it through. In diabloII you could make all kinds of crazy things, like sacrifice paladins.
WizO_BigSister
03-22-05, 06:50 PM This isn't a Forgotten Realms topic ... it's not even a D&D topic, and it doesn't belong in these forums.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rigonaric 03-22-05, 03:53 AM	I've been playing World of Warcraft recently and I've been noticing some differences between myself and a lot of my friends that play. For instance, I actually read the dialogue that goes along with the quests, I don't do things like do the same quest 2000 times (this actually happened) to get my reputation up with some faction, or the same instance again and again until I get a particular item to add to my collection, or for that matter stand around and kill the same guys who endlessly respawn for my convenience to get my level up, and you won't find me complaining endlessly because my class is underpowered in pvp. The more I think about it the more I feel like I have a different approach to games than most of these people and I think the fundamental difference is that I was brought up on roleplaying games like d&d. I appreciate things like plot, atmoshpere, and character development. So I'm here now to see if anybody else out there shares this feeling. I would like, someday to see an online multiplayer game which is more of a roleplaying game. I've been pitching it to my friends and they don't seem to think it would work but that's because they're "gamers" not roleplayers. Imagine a game where you create an actual unique life of a character. Instead of making a hunter and grinding to 60 and being just like every other level 60 hunter and having done all the same stuff imagine a game where once a quest was accomplished (assuming the nature of the quest was such that it doesn't make sense to repeat it) nobody else could do that quest. Once an npc is killed he doesn't come back. And for that matter once your player is killed he doesn't come back. The gamer can't even comprehend this situation. He says things like "but then everyone would quit playing when their character dies." But the roleplayer understands that his character might die and if it does he will just make a new one. It's a sad moment but that's part of the experience. If charcters can't die there is no fear of death. No motivation to not do stupid things which will probably get yourself killed. And without fear there can be no courage. And without courage there are no great deeds. Imagine what an accomplishment a level 60 character (or equivilent) would be in my game. Even completing a difficult quest would be an accomplishment and would be that much more rewarding. Your characters could have reputations as dragons slayers or troll hunters or accompishers of great deeds. Players could even rise to positions of power such as generals or kings. There could be an entire power structure and economy made up entirely of player characters, and since gamers wouldn't play because they wouldn't want to lose their precious character to something as trivial as death they would all be role players which would mean that there would actually be dialogue and interaction that fit the characters and the situations and the whole thing would be a grand work of art instead of just something to occupy your time. These are just some of the ideas I have for this but the details arn't the important thing. The important thing is that there be an online platform designed for roleplayers and not gamers (as described earlier). So I'm writing this to see if anybody else feels the same way I do. Maybe something like this exists. If so let me know. Otherwise let me know if you're sympathetic to the cause and if you are then spread the word. If we can get a little movement going I think we could get one of these companies to make it happen.
jotawiz 03-22-05, 07:15 AM	I dont have any doubts that WOW is an excelent game, but as you said theres little space for you to role play, reason i dont play it. NWN the Computer game let you make a persistent World online where you can be the DM. Theres gonna be a NWN2 and i hope that they keep the DM part of the game. You could always join a group of people and make your one proper PW Server.
Faraer 03-22-05, 01:19 PM	Most of the people who play MMORPGs at present don't roleplay. MMORPGs are so expensive to produce that they have to aim for as large an audience as possible. I don't know why the first of those is so. Partly because it's easy to see the MMORPG treadmill as a system to be beaten (a gameist approach); partly because (though this doesn't explain anything) some people can more easily find immediacy in playing an avatar rather than a character. And yet these same people do appreciate setting, plot and character in other contexts, and they appreciate setting enough in MMRPGs to play those with graphics rather than text MUDs (assuming the appeal isn't solely bright moving shapes on the screen). There are games like the one you're looking for, but they're not the technologically latest MMORPGs. Look at www.skotos.net and legacy.ultimainfo.net. To do this on a larger-scale commercial basis it would be necessary to charge a larger monthly fee for the added GM work, which will happen sooner or later. Games publishers see the revenues of EverQuest and aren't motivated to risk changing the model, though, even in much more subtle ways than you're proposing. Any company spending money on the Realms licence (to keep this on topic) would almost certainly play safe with the type of game and so the likely playerbase: which means I'm sure not to play the Eberron-set D&D Online and am glad there's no Realms MMORPG. Permanent character death would put off a lot of potential roleplayers, though, who are quite able to separate character from player fear of death and wouldn't be inclined to put time into developing a character who could be killed by chance, latency, or other players' whims.
ClobberinTime 03-22-05, 02:06 PM	I don't know its sometimes fun to just make a pretty random build and see if you can make it through. In diabloII you could make all kinds of crazy things, like sacrifice paladins.
WizO_BigSister 03-22-05, 06:50 PM	This isn't a Forgotten Realms topic ... it's not even a D&D topic, and it doesn't belong in these forums.