Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yamo 09-21-03, 12:25 PM	Call me nostalgic for Tolkien, but I've always wanted to run a traditional "superpowerful evil guy threatens the whole world" plotline. Like in Lord of the Rings, the evil force would be powerful enough to doom all the free world if not for the actions of a desperate band of heroes (the PCs). I'm having a little difficulty doing it in FR, though. Evil isn't so much weak in the setting (anymore...), as it is spread out among countless factions and different groups. There's no direct analog for, say, Iuz from the Greyhawk setting (a superpowerful demonic demigod that controls most of the northern continent and covets the rest). Individually, all the power groups in FR seem too "small time" to threaten the combined forces of good all at once. One idea I had: Szass Tam of the Red Wizards discovers both the Shadow Weave and...a long-lost complete copy of the Nether Scrolls. This would grant him the power of a near-god and elevate Thay to the heights of old Netheril overnight. And since the Thayans would be drawing from the Shadow Weave, the annoyingly do-gooding Mystra would be powerless to stop them. Thay's traditional enemies (and everyone else) would then be completely unable to contain the hostile nation as they'd done in the past, and the Red Wizards would be free to wage war across the land. Perhaps even a few of the classic seemingly-invincible "good guy" uber-NPCs (Elminster, the Sisters, etc) could them be struck down at dramatically-appropriate moments, heightening the desperate feel of the conflict. Thoughts?
Savras 09-21-03, 05:36 PM	Call me old fashioned, but if you need a baddy that can make the world trembel, don't go for the second best (Szass Tam, in fact *waaaaaaaaay* below secind best), go for the one that makes him wet his pants- Larloch. He has an army, and cadre of 60+ Epic Wizards, many artifacts, and an un-attackbable base. So, lets say Larloch and the Creeping Doom work together to bring about the end of the world, and split the Realms amongst themselves. Larloch supplies Tam with some artifacts so he'll start making troubles, sends ten liches to Calimshan and takes over the Twisted Rune, uses his magic to subdue Orbakh of the Night Masks and turn him into an underling, and so on. The Creeping Doom takes over the Cult of the Dragon. You can insert another baddy (they both swear felty to Bane), and the Zhents are in too- and Larloch and the Creeping Doom are not even known to do something- it's the Zhents, the Rune, the Red Wizards, the Cult... Savras
Conan 09-22-03, 04:26 AM	Aye. But it all comes undone when my axe gets stuck in Larloch's forehead. :angel: Now what's that tingling sensation in my arm? :smirk:
tWiStEdDM 09-22-03, 11:27 AM	You're right, there doesn't seem to be one individual character/organisation that is actually powerful enough to challenge the forces of good in Faerun, but it's still a great idea... I've run the "uber-bad-guy" campaign and my group played it continuously for two and a half years before it ended (they all died, unfortunately) and they loved every minute of it. But rather than use an official realms character, I created my own NPC who ended up in the position to have all of this power... it turned up some interesting situations, like making the PCs (who were all forthright do-gooders) actually having to work with the Red Wizards to try and prevent the forthcoming holocaust... it was great fun to run and has plenty of potential as a long term story arc filled out with short (and not so short) side-quests, and as Savras rightly pointed out, even if you do want to stick to 'official' characters, then it only takes a little imagination to come up with something that can work... go for it.
The_Sleeper 09-22-03, 11:31 AM	Firts off, id have to agree with Savras. Originally posted by Yamo One idea I had: Szass Tam of the Red Wizards discovers both the Shadow Weave and...a long-lost complete copy of the Nether Scrolls. This would grant him the power of a near-god and elevate Thay to the heights of old Netheril overnight. Thats if Szass even can decipher the scrolls. And just to unlock the most basic secrets from the scrolls, it would take many years, possibly a lifetime. Remember, Ioulaum, Karsus, and the Terraseer had a thousand years and more to study the scrolls and they didnt even get all there was to know from them, and they are arguably the post powerfull spellcasters Faerun has ever seen. Szass Tam is good, but hes not that good.
Amoun 09-22-03, 12:05 PM	well if you want an uber bad guy I could provide a couple old pcs turned NPCs we use in our campaign.... all of them have their own quirks... and quite a few have a megalomaniacal bent :P Imagine a powerful Orc Warlord (with devil blood coursing through his veins) brutaly destroying all opposition and hanging up his defeated foes by their own intestines (a bit gruesome but he is an orc) or A new demon lord wishing to make the world fall into the pits of decadence and vice, who commands large armies and is himself a horrific opponent, or a Human who sold his soul for achieving more power and who surrounds himself with powerful servants and devil servitors. Thats just to name a few... Even though I doubt you'll want em, I have a lot of detail on them :P
megapoop 10-02-03, 03:30 PM	if you want the true dark lord baddy hear he is: shaitan,brother of ao,(ao has another brother named io) see shaitan is the ultimate evil who has beem exiled and cast down by ao and io themselves eons ago. think of a plot to bring himj back
Korgan26 10-02-03, 03:57 PM	All good ideas but everyone forgot one option that will really make the PC's feel like they have been kicked between the legs. have them working for the bad guys causing some of the problems. Its not like every bad guy is carrying a round a sign that says, DON'T TRUST ME I'M A BAD GUY. Have the PC's working for the bad guys by stamping out evil. Every time the PC's Do something the uber bad guys sent other minions to frame someother group for it.(Tyrone, you know how much I love watching you work, but I've got my country's 500th anneversary to plan, my wedding to arrange, my wife to murder, and Gilder to frame for it. I'm swamped! ) so now you have wars starting all over the place and the uber bad guys havn't even stepped on to the stage yet. Remember the enemy of my enemy is a ready made patsy. So you have the good guys running arround picking fights for the bad guys. (its not like the zhents are going to sit down with the Thayens and disguss why they attacked, no they are going to find the nearest group and lay the preverbial smack down. actual wars have started over less) Also remember that you can't model conquerers after cobra commander. Z
Korgan26 10-02-03, 03:59 PM	Boy that would read alot smoother if i tried a more linear style of thought.
tauster 10-02-03, 04:32 PM	*apologzies in advance* yes i know: "night below" seems to be my answer for everything... :rolleyes: instead of writing it al anew, i refer myself: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100074 have a whole city of creatures who are not only highly intelligent but also genetically inherit their parents knowledge and absorb their victims minds- they should have more potential than most of faeruns uber- baddies. :behold: you can easily implement the idea of using thay, the zhents or the twisted rune as stooges- aboleth are powerful psionics, their power of domination nearly without equal. :smirk: tauster
athelstan 10-03-03, 11:19 AM	You know, i dont really think of the netheril scrolls as taking thousands of years to decipher if an appropriate high level mage found them and perused them today. You see, back in the times of netheril, it was completely new and alien, and the magic the gleamed from them they later built into their own set of spells, a great many of which are still practiced in faerun today. Indeed, some mages might find the netheril scrolls and go, hmmm, i already KNOW this spell. You see, not all of the magic was lost. The netheril scrolls, in its complete form, is kinda like a primeval alphabet, a rosetta stone for magic. Now that we have many of the advances of netheril, but lost a great many as well, i think it might be easier to "fill in the blanks" magically speaking. So if Szass were to get his hands on them, he could probably make some incredible jumps in a couple of years or so. There is no doubt that there is a great many secrets of power to be gleaned from the scrolls. But i feel that it really just fills in the big cracks to a very well developed magic system as it is. I also feel that it teaches the very basics of magic so exquisitely, in a way that current day faerun has lost, that creating new spells and items would also be much, MUCH easier for said mage(s). just my 2 coppers.
tauster 10-03-03, 11:40 AM	You know, i dont really think of the netheril scrolls as taking thousands of years to decipher if an appropriate high level mage found them and perused them today. ...and even if it really needs many years to learn something important from the scrolls: szass may have found them decades/centuries ago and right now made the crucial breakthrough.
tWiStEdDM 10-06-03, 04:00 AM	The other thing you need to remember, if you're going down the Szass Tam route, is that as he's a Lich, technically (brave, powerful and incredibly lucky adventurers notwithstanding) he's immortal. So even if it requires several lifetimes to unlock the secrets of the Nether Scrolls, Tam's got all the time in Faerun. Not particularly helpful to the overall thread, but I just thought it would be a good idea to put these things in context. Korgan26 has a good point... this is how my campaign started (with the PCs working for the NPC) and they were really motivated once they found out he'd 'betrayed' them...
ENHenry 10-06-03, 11:27 AM	If you are using Larloch, (Ed Greenwood's version of Larloch, not the watered-down Lords of Darkness version), then one is all that's needed. Larloch, with his ARMY of undead Netherese spellcasters, is already freaking insane: What if, one day, he just decides he wants it ALL to go away? He wants complete oblivion because he's tired of living, doesn't want to die and go to the higher planes, but he just wants NOTHING to exist. So he comes up with a plan to eliminate the realms and all the Deities' subplanes they call home, by using long-forgotten Netherese Magic; Stuff that the new Mystra (A) had no clue about and (B) couldn't affect, because the old Mystryl is gone, and the knowledge of the intrinsics of this new type is alien to her, even with god-knowledge. Now the players get scared, when Larloch starts doing the equivalent of sending Letter Bombs to Khelben, Laeral, and Alustriel. And El and the Simbul are next. A desparate race starts as the FR bigwigs fight and sacrifice themselves to stave off Larloch's machinations, as the PC's strive to find the solution to Larloch's undoing. It could be as simple as "bust up his mint-condition 5 mythallars" to discover his true name while he was alive by journeying to the past, and insinuating themselves in Netherese Society. Have fun with it. You can go back to the official Vanilla realms next year. :)
Aris Stormdragon 11-04-03, 09:28 PM	what you might want to do first is to decide how much like LOTR you want your campaign to be, then look for any parallels that exist in the Forgotten Realms. I think Larloch is a good place to start ( as do many other people too, it seems ), and you can give him some additional servants that mirror the Nazgul: the Death Knight. yeah, maybe that is a greyhawk thing, but it should be easy to explain their prescence in Faerun ( it is Larloch, so wouldn't he be able to figure out how to create them?), plus you give the pc's a classic baddie to fight. you might also want to think about involving the gods in this one, and Bane and Shar I think are at the top of the list.You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose. -Dan Akroyd
Aurotuli 11-04-03, 11:12 PM	After reading the above I came upon an idea. Suppose several (perhaps even most) of the numerous factions have, in fact, been manipulated by a single epic individual for the last several centuries. Little by little he/she/it has been subtly altering their dogmas, twisting their plots to new ends, and using them as scapegoats once they became inconvenient. All this time he/she/it has been slowly gaining more power (magical and worldly). Now, after nearly (over?) a millinia he/she/it is almost ready. A secret army is gathering, the enemies are being slowly weakened as all evil factions begin attacking more often, more viciously, and at times even suicidally. Other factions are turning against each other seemingly at random or even dissolving as internal strife tears them apart. The various good organizations have no understanding as to why this is happening; they are barely managing to hold their own against increasing attacks that seem to focus on the weakest links (persons, locations, tactics, etc). They are expending all of their effort to hold back the seemingly un-associated and un-coordinated attacks from numerous agencies on numerous fronts. The PCs are hired by an agent of this insidious individual to fight an evil organization that either 1) is close to realizing the truth (thus the PCs have a chance of discovering this), 2) has become expendable (ie: a scapegoat), or perhaps 3) as a test to the members of the organization itself - to see if one or more of its members might not be worthy of induction into the being's army/ organization / etc. Or perhaps yet another reason. Hmm, perhaps the heads (or higher-ups) of several of the organizations have already been corrupted and turned to the service of the dark lord - rather than the normal pursuits of the organization they lead. Yet another way the PCs might find out. BTW, the PCs might start out low level, but they'll need to be epic to really defeat the Dark Lord without resorting to round about and indirect methods (destroying the phylactery rather than facing the lich, etc). Of course, even then it might require near epic levels to have even the slimest hope of succeeding. This has great potential, I think. As for the Dark Lord: I would choose either a lich or a fiend, of course. Remember to give the Dark Lord 30 or more levels in a magic-casting class (epic casting) and at least 10 levels in some combat related class (including Asn or Blk, preferably both) to round him out. A devil (perhaps a pit fiend seeking to build power to overthrow one of the Dukes?) or especially a yugoloth (yet another plot!) would work nicely. A demon might work, but I feel it would be too chaotic to plan or organize this well over so long a period of time. A Wiz 25 / Arc 5 / Rogue 10 / Blackguard 5 / Assassin 5 Yugoloth could be an interesting opponent. Although not being a lich takes away some of the LotR feel (the ring as a phylactery). Too bad an outsider can't become a lich. Of course, there is always the possibility that the Dark Lord has, despite not being undead, learned to draw its life essence into some object (ie: phylactery), making it impossible to truely destroy except by the destruction of its phylactery. And since the Dark Lork is an outsider, a phylactery is the last item the PCs will think to look for. :devil: If you think the Dark Lord should be toned down a bit (understandable - perhaps) then the following might do (although I still prefer the first): Yugoloth Wiz 15 / Arc 5 / Rog 5 / Blk 5 / Asn 5 (and w/o a phylactery). What do you think? (edit) I also considered Larlock, but working with something new allows one to begin without baggage - without having to take into account past histories and personality quirks. I can say with certainty that with all I know of Larlock I seriously doubt that I know everything. I wouldn't want to set something up just to have some of it come apart because of a past event or a quirk I forgot or never learned about. Also, despite not meta-gaming, too many know the name larloch (players, not characters). An unknown menace just seems darker to me. Or perhaps I've just been playing Ravenloft too much recently. :D
Solmyr 11-05-03, 03:51 AM	Here's a plotline I've been considering. Play out the events of Elminster in Hell. Except that when Mystra goes to rescue Elminster, she doesn't leave Hell - and Asmodeus sets a trap for her, killing her. Suddenly, Asmodeus is the new god of magic in the Realms. The possibilities are mind-boggling. :devil:
PhilCW 11-05-03, 12:29 PM	Well how about something taken straight from the books. Sammaster returns (or wants to be returned) and in truth his prohecy was the right one, and not what Elminster would have you believe. Thus the Cult of the Dragon seek to bring about the time where dead dragons will rule. Centering themselves on that grave of dragons (a good fit for Mount Doom I would think).
Niftyone 11-05-03, 07:31 PM	Or how about something from no book... Maybe make your own baddy on an out of the way place (In the Lake of Steam area, somewhere in the Shining South or wherever you like). Maybe the signs are small at first, higher prices on trade goods from that area, or drops in communication from local good aligned temples and the like. You could probably take over vast areas of the south, maybe even take over good parts of the Vilhon Reach and the like before any powerful "good aligned" organizations or forces really noticed all that much. And even then, would they care? You're not limited to the tried and true baddies after all, and the PCs may be waiting or assuming that is all there is to face. Never limit yourself to the "canon", just make youself a big baddy and go nuts with him.
Aris Stormdragon 11-09-03, 01:47 AM	If you don't want to create your own, and don't want to use Larloch, why not set it in Vaasa, and you can bring Zhengyi the Witch King back? You could even use the city of Bloodstone as a substitute Minas Tirith, Castle Perilous could be Barad-Dur, and Narfell could be Rohan (all with a little work). You'd have a paladin-knig (Gareth Dragonsbane) who would work, I think, as a pseudo-Aragorn.