Salvatore Makes an Error (spoilers maybe) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Salvatore Makes an Error (spoilers maybe) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Colonel Crane
11-06-03, 08:02 PM In sea of swords (i think, last novel in paths of darkness) when drizzt and company attack the pirate stronghold, drizzt and regis climb up a natural chimney. when drizzt travels through the fire, he feels the heat and trys to avoid the fire by dousing himself in water (i think on the water part). But doesn't icingdeath protect him from fire? it did when he fought errtu for the first time, and it kept bruenor alive after the fall on the back of shimergloom. it also allowed bruenor to travel through fire without taking any damage. Whats up with this? Thoughts?:confused:
Cherrn
11-06-03, 08:17 PM Perhaps Drizzt did a brainfart. It happens to the best of us ya know ;)
loki87
11-06-03, 09:44 PM Certainly isn't worse than spelling Lolth wrong! ;)
Wooly Rupert
11-06-03, 10:02 PM Well, when Drizzt is intro'ed in Icewind Dale, it says he lived in the Underdark for over two centuries. But when you read the Dark Elf trilogy, you see that he couldn't have been much older than about 60 or 70 when he came to the surface.

The fiction timeline that was once on the Wizards site places the start of Homeland at 1297. That's what? 75 years ago in Realms time? Certainly less than 200!

I would just forget about it. The writers make mistakes sometimes, and sometimes change things.

Of course, you could say that Icingdeath lost it's ability to protect the weilder from all fire. The ToT would be something you could blame.
Gadodel
11-07-03, 05:21 AM Not as bad as that night he and Wulgar got drunk and well...
kreynolds
11-07-03, 08:30 AM Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, when Drizzt is intro'ed in Icewind Dale, it says he lived in the Underdark for over two centuries. But when you read the Dark Elf trilogy, you see that he couldn't have been much older than about 60 or 70 when he came to the surface.

The fiction timeline that was once on the Wizards site places the start of Homeland at 1297. That's what? 75 years ago in Realms time? Certainly less than 200!

Yeah, Salvatore said in an interview that he dropped is age down after introducing the character.

The rest of this is just my opinion. Drizzt's lack of maturity for an elf seems to be a cornerstone of the character. When introduced in The Crystal Shard, Drizzt was your typical "lethal weapon-mel gibson-nutjob-badboy-can do anything and do it well" type character. As a supporting character, and not a main character, he was designed to be nearly perfect to help usher the story along as he took to the background.

Personally, I find this type of character identical to "perfect" NPCs that some DMs have in their games. You know the ones I'm talking about; the NPCs that can cast any spell and make any item or trap, the NPCs that not only can cast any spell, but for some inexplicable reason, cast spells that are generally "custom" versions of actual spells, the type that don't allow a save or have rediculously high save DCs.

Anyway, NPCs like that are basically a DMs ultimate weapon in guiding PCs and moving a story along. But, I think they're also a curse, as not only do they tend to steal the spotlight from the players, but they also hinder character development of the NPC itself.

I think Drizzt was the same way. As an background uber-character, he didn't stay where he belonged...in the background. He stole the spotlight from Wulfgar, the actual main character. Due to the immense popularity of Drizzt, with the fanbase craving more novels about the dark elf, the character needed expansion. Suddenly, Drizzt becomes younger, less experienced, and a _lot_ less emotionally mature.

He's a brooding "teenager" now, which is appropriate for his age, and to top it all off, he's a brooding "teenage" elf that hasn't really been taught what it is to be en elf.

Basically, I think the transition of the character from the onset of The Crystal Shard was a necessary one, due to the demand of fans.
Israfel666
11-07-03, 09:24 AM Originally posted by loki87
Certainly isn't worse than spelling Lolth wrong! ;)

I heard that Lloth was actually the original spelling of the drow goddess. For some reason they changed it later (I believe as they switched to 2nd ed.).
Cherrn
11-07-03, 09:41 AM I heard that in Menzoberranzan they call her Lloth, as opposed to Lolth other places.
Another Gnome
11-07-03, 10:30 AM But doesn't icingdeath protect him from fire?

Not if it was just hanging there in its sheath. Technically, a weapon must be wielded in order to gain any special benefits from it. I don't recall if Bruenor had Icingdeath in hand when he took the flame ride, though...
kreynolds
11-07-03, 11:32 AM Originally posted by Another Gnome
Technically, a weapon must be wielded in order to gain any special benefits from it.

Not always. Depends on the description. There's no universal rule.

Originally posted by Another Gnome
I don't recall if Bruenor had Icingdeath in hand when he took the flame ride, though...

Nope. Had it tucked into his belt.
Another Gnome
11-07-03, 11:46 AM Not always. Depends on the description. There's no universal rule.

Okay, usually a weapon must be wielded to use its powers. And at any rate the frost brand description says that in both 2nd and 3rd rules. :teach:

(Meaning that there was a logical error, regardless of RAS actually following the rules or not, in one or the other example of fire protection granted by Icingdeath. Not that it bothers me or anything...)
Conan
11-07-03, 01:12 PM Who cares!

If you've read Sea of Swords and all the others up to there then you obviously like the books and RAS's style of writing. If not then you are just a sadist out for a kick.

So RAS made a mistake. Hell he's made heaps of 'em. But who cares? The guy writes a great story. Get over things.

To tell you the truth the whole Lloth/Lolth thing makes me laugh.
Here a guy makes an honest mistake which isn't picked up by anybody till it's already printed.
He then covers it jokingly by saying that it is how a small minority pronounce it on a local level.
Some people get up in arms over it and say "That's not how it should be!" and he pretty much says "Really? You been there?".
So now we have a quirky little local custom that we otherwise wouldn't have if everything had been spellchecked properly and no mistakes were made.

Oh well that's my 2cp from me and my bad mood.
I probably should qualify this by saying "Aaww Hell. If you don't like what I just wrote then ignore it."
Fredegar The White
11-07-03, 02:18 PM On the age thingi! (since it can count as a mistake although it doesn't really matter!)

He enters Melee Magthere 20 years old.

Leaves 10 years later. 30 years old.

He spends 10 years in the Underdark alone. 40 years old.

Surface. I don't remember how many years but my guess is 2 with that ranger guy (whose name i cannot remember) and another 2 general years (travel to Ten Towns and events before he met the ranger). 44 years old.

Now if we assume Catti-Brie was 10 years old when she first met him and she is 20 in Starless night that makes him 49 years old.

Passage to Dawn gives another 5 years (me thinks. It says something in the begining but i cannot remember the exact number)

So we have a 54 year old Drizzt in 1363 DR.

+9 years to reach our timeline (1372DR) 63 years of age.

Wooly Rupert wrote:

The fiction timeline that was once on the Wizards site places the start of Homeland at 1297. That's what? 75 years ago in Realms time? Certainly less than 200!

Ok maybe Catti-Brie was younger (8 years, +2), maybe he spent more years on the surface before Icewind Dale (6 years, +2)
we have a 67 year old Drow Pelf I think the timeline Rupert mentioned is correct!
Aran
11-07-03, 07:38 PM speaking of the spelling of Lloth...what about Tempus....In The Crystal Shard its spelled Tempos...Then in some other Salvatore books it's spelled Tempus..Whats up with that
Cunning Linguist
11-07-03, 07:44 PM The Uthgardt tribes call him Tempos. Everyone else Tempus.
cwslyclgh
11-07-03, 07:56 PM I heard that Lloth was actually the original spelling of the drow goddess. For some reason they changed it later (I believe as they switched to 2nd ed.). you heard wrong... it has been lolth since her first appearence in 1st edition AD&D (IIRC the vault of the drow module).
I heard that in Menzoberranzan they call her Lloth, as opposed to Lolth other places. and
The Uthgardt tribes call him Tempos. Everyone else Tempus.

those are "offical" explanations to what ammounts to gramatical errors on RAS' part... although in the end they do tend to make the setting a bit more "realistic".
Gez
11-08-03, 07:22 PM Reminds me about an editor's decision to correct that annoying mistake and make a search'n'replace on Lloth to Lolth before a reprint of a Drizzt book.

The book that happens to contain a discussion between two characters about why Menzoberranzan say Lloth rather than Lolth.

Needless to say, that whole passage became totally surreal.

And yes, that makes the world more reallistical. In real religion, the same entity has been called deus, theos, yhvh, yaveh, god, gott, dieu, allah, etc. And that's only the name -- there's also countless titles... Even when looking at pagan deities, who are closer to D&D deities than a monotheistic omnipotent being, a being that is called Jupiter by some is called Zeus by others, Taranis by still others, and Thor by yet others.

Even when the name is the same, pictures in differences in accent and language -- or even, for the weirder deities, vocal organs -- and you can be sure no human will ever pronounce Blipdoolpoolp the proper way!
Ranger REG
11-08-03, 08:25 PM Originally posted by Gez

Even when looking at pagan deities, who are closer to D&D deities than a monotheistic omnipotent being, a being that is called Jupiter by some is called Zeus by others, Taranis by still others, and Thor by yet others.
"Monotheistic"??? That means the religion is based around one deity. Zeus and his Roman counterpart Jupiter are part of a pantheon (with Hera/Juno, Ares/Mar, Aphrodite/Venus, the oft-mistaken Heracles/Hercules, etc.).
Klyden
11-08-03, 09:26 PM Originally posted by Gadodel
Not as bad as that night he and Wulgar got drunk and well...

GAH! (BANGS HEAD AGAINST A TREE)! GET OUT MY HEAD! GET OUT OF MY HEAD! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
Shar Baenre
11-09-03, 04:05 AM Originally posted by Fredegar The White

Surface. I don't remember how many years but my guess is 2 with that ranger guy (whose name i cannot remember) and another 2 general years (travel to Ten Towns and events before he met the ranger). 44 years old.

His name was Mooshee or Mooshie (can't remember spelling)
Fredegar The White
11-09-03, 06:01 AM Gez wrote:

who are closer to D&D deities than a monotheistic omnipotent being, a being that is called Jupiter by some is called Zeus by others, Taranis by still others, and Thor by yet others.

You mentioned three different pantheons. The Vikings, Ancient Greeks, Gaules/Celts had different gods. Zeus/Jupiter was not the same being as Taranis (I think he was god of Thunder and Storms?) and Thor. The Gaulic/Celtic pantheon may have been influenced by Greeks since by 500 b.c. Greeks had established colonies all over the Mediterranean. But the existence of 100 and more gods in the Celtic pantheon mean that they would make a god of Ketchup bottles if they could so a god of thunders was most likely to appear on the list anyway!

The Viking/Skandinavian pantheon was in no way related to Zeus. Greeks never went beyond the Balkans, Romans never reached Denmark due to the Goths and later Attila. By 500 ad both Empires (Holy Roman, Byzantine) had been completely converted to Christian religion. The Vikings developed their pantheon alone. And unlike the Celtic pantheon it was a serious one without a god for mustard.

In real religion, the same entity has been called deus, theos, yhvh, yaveh, god, gott, dieu, allah, etc. And that's only the name -- there's also countless titles...

I agree completely with that! God, Allah, Ahura Mazda, Budha.

All one and the same.

p.s. That is completely my personall opinion!
WizO_BigSister
11-09-03, 09:35 AM Discussions of real Earth religions are very sensitive, and can bring up powerful emotions and reactions. Also This discussion isn't actually on topic. If you want to have a comparative theology debate then maybe it would be better if you don't do it here. :)
Fredegar The White
11-09-03, 11:29 AM Sorry!
Colonel Crane
11-09-03, 05:46 PM i think we have come to the conclusion that salvatore made a mistake. i was just wondering if i had missed something thats all.
i think that if were going to discuss the pronounceiation of lolth and tempus somebody should open another thread.:angel:
Wooly Rupert
11-09-03, 06:56 PM Originally posted by Cunning Linguist
The Uthgardt tribes call him Tempos. Everyone else Tempus.

Originally posted by cwslyclgh
those are "offical" explanations to what ammounts to gramatical errors on RAS' part... although in the end they do tend to make the setting a bit more "realistic".

Page 133 of the novel Azure Bonds has a cleric and a barbarian arguing about whether or not "Tempos" was a corruption of "Tempus."

I don't think any mistakes were made, there.
cwslyclgh
11-09-03, 07:02 PM Azure bonds came out after the crystal shard (where the mistake was first made).:rolleyes:
Cunning Linguist
11-09-03, 07:12 PM The PC game Icewind dale has dialog where they talk of Tempos, and Tempus, and how those who worship Tempus are fools, who are week and small, Tempos on the other hand, is the go to guy when it comes to battle.
Wooly Rupert
11-09-03, 07:26 PM Originally posted by cwslyclgh
Azure bonds came out after the crystal shard (where the mistake was first made).:rolleyes:

So you're saying that the Novak-Grubb duo were correcting an error made merely a few months earlier?

I think the names were not mistakes. 'Tis a known fact that words shift over time, gaining new pronunciations and/or spellings. 'Tis also known that in different regions, things are sometimes called by different names -- this is proven by things like "soda" and "pop" and sub sandwiches (which I've seen called subs, heroes, hoagies, and po' boys).

Why can we not assume this to be the case here?
Kuje31
11-09-03, 07:28 PM Faiths & Avatars also kept it, and that came out LONG after those books. His alias among the barb's is Tempos......
cwslyclgh
11-10-03, 01:27 AM So you're saying that the Novak-Grubb duo were correcting an error made merely a few months earlier? yes.

I am pretty sure that it was not as well thought out as you would like us to believe... it was a mistake that was noted and then corrected.

as I previously stated it does tend to make the realms more realistic.... for the very reasons that you have mentioned... however that was a simply a side affect, not a planned happening.
Kuje31
11-10-03, 02:01 AM Originally posted by cwslyclgh
yes.

I am pretty sure that it was not as well thought out as you would like us to believe... it was a mistake that was noted and then corrected.

as I previously stated it does tend to make the realms more realistic.... for the very reasons that you have mentioned... however that was a simply a side affect, not a planned happening.

Then also, how do you explain, all the other deities that have alias's in other nations, but were not called Lloth or Tempos as errors, but were planned. :)
Wooly Rupert
11-10-03, 10:24 AM Originally posted by cwslyclgh
yes.

I am pretty sure that it was not as well thought out as you would like us to believe... it was a mistake that was noted and then corrected.

as I previously stated it does tend to make the realms more realistic.... for the very reasons that you have mentioned... however that was a simply a side affect, not a planned happening.

I can't buy that. 'Tis too pedestrian a mistake to make. I mean, there was already Realms stuff in print at that time. For "Tempos" to have been a mistake, then Salvatore would have had to have made the mistake first, and then the editor would have had to have failed to catch it more than once.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Colonel Crane 11-06-03, 08:02 PM	In sea of swords (i think, last novel in paths of darkness) when drizzt and company attack the pirate stronghold, drizzt and regis climb up a natural chimney. when drizzt travels through the fire, he feels the heat and trys to avoid the fire by dousing himself in water (i think on the water part). But doesn't icingdeath protect him from fire? it did when he fought errtu for the first time, and it kept bruenor alive after the fall on the back of shimergloom. it also allowed bruenor to travel through fire without taking any damage. Whats up with this? Thoughts?:confused:
Cherrn 11-06-03, 08:17 PM	Perhaps Drizzt did a brainfart. It happens to the best of us ya know ;)
loki87 11-06-03, 09:44 PM	Certainly isn't worse than spelling Lolth wrong! ;)
Wooly Rupert 11-06-03, 10:02 PM	Well, when Drizzt is intro'ed in Icewind Dale, it says he lived in the Underdark for over two centuries. But when you read the Dark Elf trilogy, you see that he couldn't have been much older than about 60 or 70 when he came to the surface. The fiction timeline that was once on the Wizards site places the start of Homeland at 1297. That's what? 75 years ago in Realms time? Certainly less than 200! I would just forget about it. The writers make mistakes sometimes, and sometimes change things. Of course, you could say that Icingdeath lost it's ability to protect the weilder from all fire. The ToT would be something you could blame.
Gadodel 11-07-03, 05:21 AM	Not as bad as that night he and Wulgar got drunk and well...
kreynolds 11-07-03, 08:30 AM	Originally posted by Wooly Rupert Well, when Drizzt is intro'ed in Icewind Dale, it says he lived in the Underdark for over two centuries. But when you read the Dark Elf trilogy, you see that he couldn't have been much older than about 60 or 70 when he came to the surface. The fiction timeline that was once on the Wizards site places the start of Homeland at 1297. That's what? 75 years ago in Realms time? Certainly less than 200! Yeah, Salvatore said in an interview that he dropped is age down after introducing the character. The rest of this is just my opinion. Drizzt's lack of maturity for an elf seems to be a cornerstone of the character. When introduced in The Crystal Shard, Drizzt was your typical "lethal weapon-mel gibson-nutjob-badboy-can do anything and do it well" type character. As a supporting character, and not a main character, he was designed to be nearly perfect to help usher the story along as he took to the background. Personally, I find this type of character identical to "perfect" NPCs that some DMs have in their games. You know the ones I'm talking about; the NPCs that can cast any spell and make any item or trap, the NPCs that not only can cast any spell, but for some inexplicable reason, cast spells that are generally "custom" versions of actual spells, the type that don't allow a save or have rediculously high save DCs. Anyway, NPCs like that are basically a DMs ultimate weapon in guiding PCs and moving a story along. But, I think they're also a curse, as not only do they tend to steal the spotlight from the players, but they also hinder character development of the NPC itself. I think Drizzt was the same way. As an background uber-character, he didn't stay where he belonged...in the background. He stole the spotlight from Wulfgar, the actual main character. Due to the immense popularity of Drizzt, with the fanbase craving more novels about the dark elf, the character needed expansion. Suddenly, Drizzt becomes younger, less experienced, and a _lot_ less emotionally mature. He's a brooding "teenager" now, which is appropriate for his age, and to top it all off, he's a brooding "teenage" elf that hasn't really been taught what it is to be en elf. Basically, I think the transition of the character from the onset of The Crystal Shard was a necessary one, due to the demand of fans.
Israfel666 11-07-03, 09:24 AM	Originally posted by loki87 Certainly isn't worse than spelling Lolth wrong! ;) I heard that Lloth was actually the original spelling of the drow goddess. For some reason they changed it later (I believe as they switched to 2nd ed.).
Cherrn 11-07-03, 09:41 AM	I heard that in Menzoberranzan they call her Lloth, as opposed to Lolth other places.
Another Gnome 11-07-03, 10:30 AM	But doesn't icingdeath protect him from fire? Not if it was just hanging there in its sheath. Technically, a weapon must be wielded in order to gain any special benefits from it. I don't recall if Bruenor had Icingdeath in hand when he took the flame ride, though...
kreynolds 11-07-03, 11:32 AM	Originally posted by Another Gnome Technically, a weapon must be wielded in order to gain any special benefits from it. Not always. Depends on the description. There's no universal rule. Originally posted by Another Gnome I don't recall if Bruenor had Icingdeath in hand when he took the flame ride, though... Nope. Had it tucked into his belt.
Another Gnome 11-07-03, 11:46 AM	Not always. Depends on the description. There's no universal rule. Okay, usually a weapon must be wielded to use its powers. And at any rate the frost brand description says that in both 2nd and 3rd rules. :teach: (Meaning that there was a logical error, regardless of RAS actually following the rules or not, in one or the other example of fire protection granted by Icingdeath. Not that it bothers me or anything...)
Conan 11-07-03, 01:12 PM	Who cares! If you've read Sea of Swords and all the others up to there then you obviously like the books and RAS's style of writing. If not then you are just a sadist out for a kick. So RAS made a mistake. Hell he's made heaps of 'em. But who cares? The guy writes a great story. Get over things. To tell you the truth the whole Lloth/Lolth thing makes me laugh. Here a guy makes an honest mistake which isn't picked up by anybody till it's already printed. He then covers it jokingly by saying that it is how a small minority pronounce it on a local level. Some people get up in arms over it and say "That's not how it should be!" and he pretty much says "Really? You been there?". So now we have a quirky little local custom that we otherwise wouldn't have if everything had been spellchecked properly and no mistakes were made. Oh well that's my 2cp from me and my bad mood. I probably should qualify this by saying "Aaww Hell. If you don't like what I just wrote then ignore it."
Fredegar The White 11-07-03, 02:18 PM	On the age thingi! (since it can count as a mistake although it doesn't really matter!) He enters Melee Magthere 20 years old. Leaves 10 years later. 30 years old. He spends 10 years in the Underdark alone. 40 years old. Surface. I don't remember how many years but my guess is 2 with that ranger guy (whose name i cannot remember) and another 2 general years (travel to Ten Towns and events before he met the ranger). 44 years old. Now if we assume Catti-Brie was 10 years old when she first met him and she is 20 in Starless night that makes him 49 years old. Passage to Dawn gives another 5 years (me thinks. It says something in the begining but i cannot remember the exact number) So we have a 54 year old Drizzt in 1363 DR. +9 years to reach our timeline (1372DR) 63 years of age. Wooly Rupert wrote: The fiction timeline that was once on the Wizards site places the start of Homeland at 1297. That's what? 75 years ago in Realms time? Certainly less than 200! Ok maybe Catti-Brie was younger (8 years, +2), maybe he spent more years on the surface before Icewind Dale (6 years, +2) we have a 67 year old Drow Pelf I think the timeline Rupert mentioned is correct!
Aran 11-07-03, 07:38 PM	speaking of the spelling of Lloth...what about Tempus....In The Crystal Shard its spelled Tempos...Then in some other Salvatore books it's spelled Tempus..Whats up with that
Cunning Linguist 11-07-03, 07:44 PM	The Uthgardt tribes call him Tempos. Everyone else Tempus.
cwslyclgh 11-07-03, 07:56 PM	I heard that Lloth was actually the original spelling of the drow goddess. For some reason they changed it later (I believe as they switched to 2nd ed.). you heard wrong... it has been lolth since her first appearence in 1st edition AD&D (IIRC the vault of the drow module). I heard that in Menzoberranzan they call her Lloth, as opposed to Lolth other places. and The Uthgardt tribes call him Tempos. Everyone else Tempus. those are "offical" explanations to what ammounts to gramatical errors on RAS' part... although in the end they do tend to make the setting a bit more "realistic".
Gez 11-08-03, 07:22 PM	Reminds me about an editor's decision to correct that annoying mistake and make a search'n'replace on Lloth to Lolth before a reprint of a Drizzt book. The book that happens to contain a discussion between two characters about why Menzoberranzan say Lloth rather than Lolth. Needless to say, that whole passage became totally surreal. And yes, that makes the world more reallistical. In real religion, the same entity has been called deus, theos, yhvh, yaveh, god, gott, dieu, allah, etc. And that's only the name -- there's also countless titles... Even when looking at pagan deities, who are closer to D&D deities than a monotheistic omnipotent being, a being that is called Jupiter by some is called Zeus by others, Taranis by still others, and Thor by yet others. Even when the name is the same, pictures in differences in accent and language -- or even, for the weirder deities, vocal organs -- and you can be sure no human will ever pronounce Blipdoolpoolp the proper way!
Ranger REG 11-08-03, 08:25 PM	Originally posted by Gez Even when looking at pagan deities, who are closer to D&D deities than a monotheistic omnipotent being, a being that is called Jupiter by some is called Zeus by others, Taranis by still others, and Thor by yet others. "Monotheistic"??? That means the religion is based around one deity. Zeus and his Roman counterpart Jupiter are part of a pantheon (with Hera/Juno, Ares/Mar, Aphrodite/Venus, the oft-mistaken Heracles/Hercules, etc.).
Klyden 11-08-03, 09:26 PM	Originally posted by Gadodel Not as bad as that night he and Wulgar got drunk and well... GAH! (BANGS HEAD AGAINST A TREE)! GET OUT MY HEAD! GET OUT OF MY HEAD! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
Shar Baenre 11-09-03, 04:05 AM	Originally posted by Fredegar The White Surface. I don't remember how many years but my guess is 2 with that ranger guy (whose name i cannot remember) and another 2 general years (travel to Ten Towns and events before he met the ranger). 44 years old. His name was Mooshee or Mooshie (can't remember spelling)
Fredegar The White 11-09-03, 06:01 AM	Gez wrote: who are closer to D&D deities than a monotheistic omnipotent being, a being that is called Jupiter by some is called Zeus by others, Taranis by still others, and Thor by yet others. You mentioned three different pantheons. The Vikings, Ancient Greeks, Gaules/Celts had different gods. Zeus/Jupiter was not the same being as Taranis (I think he was god of Thunder and Storms?) and Thor. The Gaulic/Celtic pantheon may have been influenced by Greeks since by 500 b.c. Greeks had established colonies all over the Mediterranean. But the existence of 100 and more gods in the Celtic pantheon mean that they would make a god of Ketchup bottles if they could so a god of thunders was most likely to appear on the list anyway! The Viking/Skandinavian pantheon was in no way related to Zeus. Greeks never went beyond the Balkans, Romans never reached Denmark due to the Goths and later Attila. By 500 ad both Empires (Holy Roman, Byzantine) had been completely converted to Christian religion. The Vikings developed their pantheon alone. And unlike the Celtic pantheon it was a serious one without a god for mustard. In real religion, the same entity has been called deus, theos, yhvh, yaveh, god, gott, dieu, allah, etc. And that's only the name -- there's also countless titles... I agree completely with that! God, Allah, Ahura Mazda, Budha. All one and the same. p.s. That is completely my personall opinion!
WizO_BigSister 11-09-03, 09:35 AM	Discussions of real Earth religions are very sensitive, and can bring up powerful emotions and reactions. Also This discussion isn't actually on topic. If you want to have a comparative theology debate then maybe it would be better if you don't do it here. :)
Fredegar The White 11-09-03, 11:29 AM	Sorry!
Colonel Crane 11-09-03, 05:46 PM	i think we have come to the conclusion that salvatore made a mistake. i was just wondering if i had missed something thats all. i think that if were going to discuss the pronounceiation of lolth and tempus somebody should open another thread.:angel:
Wooly Rupert 11-09-03, 06:56 PM	Originally posted by Cunning Linguist The Uthgardt tribes call him Tempos. Everyone else Tempus. Originally posted by cwslyclgh those are "offical" explanations to what ammounts to gramatical errors on RAS' part... although in the end they do tend to make the setting a bit more "realistic". Page 133 of the novel Azure Bonds has a cleric and a barbarian arguing about whether or not "Tempos" was a corruption of "Tempus." I don't think any mistakes were made, there.
cwslyclgh 11-09-03, 07:02 PM	Azure bonds came out after the crystal shard (where the mistake was first made).:rolleyes:
Cunning Linguist 11-09-03, 07:12 PM	The PC game Icewind dale has dialog where they talk of Tempos, and Tempus, and how those who worship Tempus are fools, who are week and small, Tempos on the other hand, is the go to guy when it comes to battle.
Wooly Rupert 11-09-03, 07:26 PM	Originally posted by cwslyclgh Azure bonds came out after the crystal shard (where the mistake was first made).:rolleyes: So you're saying that the Novak-Grubb duo were correcting an error made merely a few months earlier? I think the names were not mistakes. 'Tis a known fact that words shift over time, gaining new pronunciations and/or spellings. 'Tis also known that in different regions, things are sometimes called by different names -- this is proven by things like "soda" and "pop" and sub sandwiches (which I've seen called subs, heroes, hoagies, and po' boys). Why can we not assume this to be the case here?
Kuje31 11-09-03, 07:28 PM	Faiths & Avatars also kept it, and that came out LONG after those books. His alias among the barb's is Tempos......
cwslyclgh 11-10-03, 01:27 AM	So you're saying that the Novak-Grubb duo were correcting an error made merely a few months earlier? yes. I am pretty sure that it was not as well thought out as you would like us to believe... it was a mistake that was noted and then corrected. as I previously stated it does tend to make the realms more realistic.... for the very reasons that you have mentioned... however that was a simply a side affect, not a planned happening.
Kuje31 11-10-03, 02:01 AM	Originally posted by cwslyclgh yes. I am pretty sure that it was not as well thought out as you would like us to believe... it was a mistake that was noted and then corrected. as I previously stated it does tend to make the realms more realistic.... for the very reasons that you have mentioned... however that was a simply a side affect, not a planned happening. Then also, how do you explain, all the other deities that have alias's in other nations, but were not called Lloth or Tempos as errors, but were planned. :)
Wooly Rupert 11-10-03, 10:24 AM	Originally posted by cwslyclgh yes. I am pretty sure that it was not as well thought out as you would like us to believe... it was a mistake that was noted and then corrected. as I previously stated it does tend to make the realms more realistic.... for the very reasons that you have mentioned... however that was a simply a side affect, not a planned happening. I can't buy that. 'Tis too pedestrian a mistake to make. I mean, there was already Realms stuff in print at that time. For "Tempos" to have been a mistake, then Salvatore would have had to have made the mistake first, and then the editor would have had to have failed to catch it more than once.