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| Lykor09-13-07, 05:31 PM | It seems that 4e is going to be a big change, as much as 3e was, if not more. With the mechanics of change comes a massive lore change as well; we have already seen some of that with the deaths of Halaster and Blackstaff, the published changes on the Great Wheel, etc. WOTC prides itself on listening to the customers, and overall they do a good job. They fixed (or at least tried to) polymorph, made melee viable, and are giving us Grand History of the Realms. Maybe they will listen to this thread. Feel free to answer any or all of these questions. I will keep a running tally of yes, no and ambivalent/don't care for each. 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? Edits: clarified several questions, added #11. Results 1. Yes: 10 -People who started FR after ToT supported the change No: 6 Ambivalent: 8 -liked the idea but hated the implementation -hated the idea, but liked the mechanical change 2. Yes: 10 -Ok with Blackstaff dying -Ok with the current status (whether dead or just MIA) of Elminster and Halaster. No: 3 Ambivalent: 7 The general consensus was that it is ok to kill a major character as long as their death is well done and meaningful. 3. Yes: 0 No: 18 -people liked having high level characters appear via cameo -if a GM didn't like the characters, just don't use them Ambivalent: 5 4: Note: this was more for invasions of the "unknown enemies from far away" rather than "Thay smash" type invasions. Yes: 6 -invasions keep the Realms dynamic No: 12 -like they way the Realms are now -too many RSEs already Ambivalent: 6 -Hate RSEs in general -Hate implementation of RSEs 5: Note: A great many areas in the Realms (Underdark, Silver Marches, Vaasa, etc) are already PoL. This question was meant to be the ENTIRE Realms as PoL, with nearly every nation-state a PoL. Yes: 2 -gives adventurers something to do No: 15 -people liked the current nation setup Ambivalent: 6 6: Yes: 3 -eyrinees (as presented in 3.5) and succubi weren't all that different anyways No: 11 -hate retcons -like Great Tree -hate the "Christianized" story Ambivalent: 6 7: Yes: 3 - too much god involvment - too many stores around gods No: 16 - liked having the gods take an active part as integral to Realms Ambivalent: 6 - liked gods taking part, just have them do so less 8: Yes: 4 -too many gods and pantheons No: 14 -liked having gods around for flavor, variety, and as integral part of the Realms Ambivalent: 5 Several people supported collapsing the Mulhurandi pantheon into the main human pantheon. 9: Yes: 3 -it's always good to shake things up No: 15 -too many RSEs -like the Realms the way they are now -10 year timeline advancement should shake things up -enough campaign hooks Ambivalent: 4 10: Yes: 6 -will likely purchase at least a FRCS -will continue purchasing a valid campaign setting, regardless of origin No: 4 Ambivalent: 11 -depends on quality, author, or degree of change Reasons for poll Several of these changes have already happened: Halaster is MIA/KIA in Expedition to Undermountain, a non-core module, Blackstaff is confirmed dead in Blackstaff, Elminster is MIA in Shadowdale, devel/demon changes have been announced, Rich Baker has announced the "point of light" design idea is going to be applied to the realms (That could mean anything from "emphasize size and wilderness" to "destruction of all nations", and RAS has commented on the lack of god involvement and a "disasterous merging of two worlds" in his most recent Drizzt novel. Toss in the 10 year timeline advancement and the upcoming Spellplague RSE and things just get worse. Some of the other questions regard common critizicms of the realms (too many gods, far to active gods, high-level NPCs). |
| Diffan09-13-07, 06:15 PM | Well, I guess I'll be the first to post :) 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yes. It required the Gods to have more of a hand in the dealings with mortals 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Halaster-yes. Blackstaff-yes. Elminster-he's dead? If so then no. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? No, though maybe they're stats should be more general, as to maybe what levels hey are and leave the rest of the stats to the DM/GM. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Eh, I actually like the phaerim and shades but with the chagnes of 4E, I think it's enough invasions for the time being. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. No, the landscape should be as hostile as the DM wants without the setting pre-made that way. Random encounters shouldn't be heightened just because the setting is set in that fashion. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. They should all be outsiders. Succubi and Erinyes should've been merged with 3.5. And the lore of devils being fallen angels really appeals to me. Lucifer anyone? 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No, they're meddling with mortals is one of the main reasons I like the FR over other settings. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Non-trivial gods make it easy for clerics/favored souls/paladins to really specify they're characters instead of clumping them all together with just a few. For example, in greyhawk, paladin's can only worship Pelor, Heironeous, St. Cuthbert, or Yee Jas from the SRD. In FR, they're faiths are three times as much. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? I have no idea what this question means? 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? I'm not sure. Though I suppose I'd buy at least 1 or 2 books, most definitly the 4E FRCS. 11) 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? Well, I've have warforged and artificers in my campaign, but I think it should be a case by case scenario. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-13-07, 06:43 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? I came to the Realms after the ToT, so I've always accepted it without question. But if I'd been with the setting since 1987, I might well have been upset, and I understand why some people hate it. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Halaster isn't dead in my Realms...but to answer the question, no. Blackstaff? Yes. His death had a point to it. Elminster is not dead, nor should he be. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? They should absolutely not be removed with the intention of "fixing" the setting. The stability of a campaign is on the DM, not some fictional characters. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? NO! 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Some parts of the setting are, in fact, already PoL style. But the parts of the setting that are not should NOT be "converted". Who wants a totally homogenous setting? And I do see some setting design problems with the style to begin with (how can any city--much less the types we are used to--prosper if trade is dangerous due to unsafe roads and the immediate surrounding lands are untamed?), but that's a subject for a different thread. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. I don't understand how all those changes are going to be explained without retconning, which is something WotC has repeatedly said they are trying not to do this go-round. Personally, I don't care for the new changes--there's nothing wrong with them, but I'm too used to the older creatures. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? I think the extent that gods are active in the affairs of mortals is a bit overhyped to begin with. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? What's a trivial god? What's a non-trivial god? Why should any of them be removed? And no, I like the pantheons as they are (there are already some crossovers, anyway). 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? If the Realms become different in a way that I do not find entertaining, I will not continue to purchase FR products. |
| Eurhetemec09-13-07, 07:52 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yes, though at the time I assumed it would be the one-and-only RSE. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Yes, yes, and yes. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? Destablizes? I dunno. Makes it harder to run? Yes. Yes they should be removed or at least entirely de-stat'd. Good guy NPC stats are unecessary at best, a problem at worst. Might want to add de-stat'ing to your list of possibilities... It's the RSEs that "destablize" a campaign, and they need to GO even if the NPCs stay. If it takes a giant RSE to make the RSEs go and stay away, well, I'm fine with that. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Ugh no. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Cities aren't the only PoL, PoL are the only PoL, and they can be anything. But yes. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Yes. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? Nah, just stop the RSEs. I like the gods, they're one of the main things I love about the FR, so no disappearing. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No, I like the gods. Except Tyr. He can take a hike. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Unfair question. The New Jedi Order was lame-o-riffic and you're cheating at your own poll by using the comparison. Add in "or Battlestar Galactica" before the "?" for fair results. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? I'd start purchasing them again, so yes, I guess. I stopped with the early 3E FR stuff, as it hadn't changed enough, just retconned and given more stupid PrCs and other crunchy junk than I knew what to do with. |
| Old Sage09-13-07, 10:26 PM | I'll just note that Elminster is not actually dead -- he's now just absent. See the opening sections of the Shadowdale module for details. |
| MerrikCale09-13-07, 11:01 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? No 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? yes, yes, and absolutely yes 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? you mean, high level NPCs, if so, then don't worry about them 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? no 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. no, except in some regions 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. I'm thinking on this one 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? no, I love religious conflict 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? out with Mulhorand 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? no 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? if its good |
| Jhalad09-13-07, 11:18 PM | It seems that 4e is going to be a big change, as much as 3e was, if not more. With the mechanics of change comes a massive lore change as well; we have already seen some of that with the deaths of Halaster and Blackstaff, the published changes on the Great Wheel, etc. WOTC prides itself on listening to the customers, and overall they do a good job. They fixed (or at least tried to) polymorph, made melee viable, and are giving us Grand History of the Realms. Maybe they will listen to this thread. Feel free to answer any or all of these questions. I will keep a running tally of yes, no and ambivalent/don't care for each. 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yes, but I am hoping that the Grand History tells as more about what Gods were where. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? In one way, it IS nice to know that no one is undefeatable, but no... they should have never been killed. These are staple personailities of the Realms, and taking them away makes the world a lesser place than it once was. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? I assume you are refering to the death of the above mentioned, as well as others. No, because there are enough high levels to keep the other high levels in check. As to my own campaign, my players never make it that far... 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? The Nightmare Parade!!!! But only in the extent that it was already covered in that Harper novel. I say that Thay needs to be more developed, or continue the Drow rising back to the surpace. No new invasions, though. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Aren't some places in the Realms like that already? But, no, no points of light, but things like the destruction of Tilverton show that no geological or man-made location lasts forever. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. I take it that these are some of the many foul and nasty changes for the tainted 4th ed... Sorry, I'll try and stop being bad. No, I don't like any changes of this sort. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No, that's part of what makes the Realms, the Realms. It would negate the whole Time of Troubles thing. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Again, no. Leave the Gods to be the meddling Gods that they are. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Ya know, if you "reboot" a computer enough times, you crash the drive and gotta buy a new computer. That said, there've been enough "resets" to the Realms with the Shades, the death of major personalities, and destruction of major landmarks (Undermountain comes to mind... snarl). The Realms is NOT stale, and does NOT need a reset. How about we continue on with the story of the Dragon Queen War and develop Tiamat some more. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Realms is about the only thing I plan to buy for 4th ed. If they do any more MAJOR revamps and remakes, I'll probably stop purchasing that to. The only thing WoTC is doing right now is helping me save more money. Realms is a great, great world. I loved the original grey boxed set from oh so long ago. I loved the stories, the places, the dungeons, the concepts, the novels... everything. I've enjoyed most of the things that have happened over the last two decades or so. But, with the advent of the "new and improved" Undermountain, I truely dislike where Realms seems to be going. Stop listening to those damn corporate weenies and listen to your market instead, WoTC. New is not always better, and sometimes, you don't need to change something radically to keep it interesting. Trust your market, trust your consumer, and mold the Realms with loving hands, not with a sledgehammer! Elminster, Khelben, and Halaster alive and kickin' in '08... |
| Crazygx3409-14-07, 12:06 AM | 1) did you like time of trouble? -Yes and no! The magic going wild a little boring for spellscaster. Space disformation and god walking on toril great. 2) should Halaster Blackstaff stay dead? -Yes and make Elminster a gods. 3) Having hight level distabilize your campaign? -No, but not abuse on it because epic character are rare and transform the realms by them self. 4) Having invasion of the realms? -Yes it my primordial dream about the realms. I work on a campaign based on it. Demon and Devils coming to surface,Drow invasion. Don't be afraid of this that can make the realms more popular, like Lord of the ring. 5)Should be point of bright light city in a hostile world? -Maybe a mix is good Empire with great peaceful farmlands, and kingdoms like Camelot harmony. And savage place rules by orc and evils , chaotic kingdoms. 6)Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials? -Yes good thing I like Succubi and Erinyes... That will make great humanoid mixture baby..:P 7)Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? -Yes.Because invasion of fr by Demons or devils or drow could be more complicated with god always disturbing business of other..:rolleyes: 8)Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? -Yes. A little remodeling its have to be done. I say make it more like Greeks pantheon. Some God are inutile and they to many, other gave me head-aches. |
| Fabius Maximus09-14-07, 08:51 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? In the context of FR, it did make sense. So yes. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Halaster is not that dead. Is new mode of existence is a plot hook, if I ever saw one. I don't care about Elminster, but Khelben's death bugs me a bit. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? You don't have to use them. Abstain. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Not necessarily, no. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Large parts of the Realms are like this. Abstain. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. A slight No. The merging of Succubi and Erynies makes sense. Demons always were more bestial, so there is not much difference. But the origin of the devils I don't like. It may be that Asmodeus is a fallen angel (maybe some of the other princes too), but he could've started the transformation of nupperibos into baatezu, so that he could overthrow the ancient baatorians. That would be more in line of the old history of Planescape. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? Yes. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Yes. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Yes. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Depends on the quality. |
| Mrakvampire09-14-07, 09:51 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Not so much, but it added good feature - god's have to rely on mortals. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Elminster - no! Blackstaff - maybe. Halaster - absolutely no! 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? Absolutely no. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Maybe. I think that there is no need of global invastions - but a couple of wars would be good. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Absolutely no. This will destroy a flavor. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. It's not vital for setting. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No, absolutely no. This will also destroy flavor. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No, FR is a world of a lot of gods. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Not really. But some changes would be fine, but not DRASTIC changes. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? No. |
| Andyr09-14-07, 10:04 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yes, but I think such events should be very rare. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Yes to all. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? No; there's plenty of world to explore. I don't tend to have them appear in games, but I have no problem with them being there. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? I don't see there's a need for another RSE. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. I don't see any need. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Most certainly not! I like the Great Wheel cosmology with decades of lore behind it; I wouldn't remind if the Realms kept the Great Tree (I assume that is how scholars in the Realms think that the multiverse operates, placing themselves at the centre, with the Great Wheel being the truth). I don't see the point or need to throw away this old lore for a new edition. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No, I think they need more stability. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Depends on how the Realms were different. |
| The Ubbergeek09-14-07, 11:21 AM | The Realsm do not need saving - the $ flow from the novels is a radiant example. |
| Brand_X09-14-07, 11:26 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? I thought it was a great story and added an element of control on the Gods. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Not being 100% up on the Realms I missed the Death of Halister but posts earlier say it isnt quite so. So with Halister and Elminster I will say I dunno. Blackstaff's Death was important to a story line and as pointed out proves no one is beyond death no matter how much power they wield. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? I love Story PCs in my game. I sprinkle them in few and far between just for a cameo. They have their own issues and problems to deal with and they cannot be running around saving the PCs butts. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? No... would rather have some places more fleshed out. But then again as a DM that is my responsibility and perogative to take the basic and make it detailed. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Have you read through the FR Encounter Table that came with the 3E DM Screen for FR? Just for the heck of it I followed it 100% one time and my party went from level 3 to level 14ish just going from Shadowdale to DeepingDale. Those encounter tables are harsh. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Physical appearance changes are not really worthwhile and that part should be left alone. I like my little blobs -- Lemur as they are. Though I always forget whether they are devil or demon. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No [/quote] 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? [/quote] Every God is important to someone. They have worshippers and people who love and respect them. Might as well ask what family members are trivial and should not be invited to Thanksgiving Dinner. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? If so the only person to do the job is Greenwood. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Depends on how different you mean. |
| Lord Karsus09-14-07, 11:28 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? -The basic premise, yes. I don't like how it was executed, however. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? -Let 'em stay dead. Rampant Resurrection cheapens a character. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? -No, and no. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? -If executed properly, sure. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. -No. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. -I am anti-Retcon. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? -No, no I do not. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? -If necessary, from a story point of view. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? -No, but it looks like things have already taken a great change... 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? -Nope. |
| DarkSongKnight09-14-07, 11:30 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? The Time of Troubles had already occurred when I came along, so it was not a big deal to me. It also helped explain why the gods took a more active role in the lives of their worshipers. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Halaster I don't care about. Blackstaff's death was meaningful. Elminster isn't dead, and should not be. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? NO. It is the Dungeon Masters option to include these characters. It is not mandatory. By removing any of them, it alters established lore and, at the same time, limits the actions of those who DO want them. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? No. There have been enough recent disturbances. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Not all of the Realms should be converted. Also, NONE of the Realms should be destroyed in order to make them fit the "points of light." Changing them with great reasons as to why is more acceptable, if they must be converted. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Devils and Demons have always been similar in my opinion. Evil outsiders. This change does not bother me, and I like the idea of fallen celestials. Major changes to standard playable races does bother me if it alters established Realms lore. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? NO! The many deities are one of the MAIN reasons I love the Realms. The variety is wonderful! It is up to the Dungeon Master as to whether or not he wishes to include all of these deities. However, officially destroying or removing any of them limits the actions of those who DO want them. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No. I like the deities as they are. If changes must happen, there needs to be great reasons as to why. Once again, it is up to the Dungeon Master as to which deities he includes in his own game. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No, on the contrary, I find the Realms to be very much alive and vibrant. Art books would be nice, along with some updated source books. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? I will certainly buy the new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, as well as the Player's Handbook, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Master's Guide. As to buying more products, that will depend on my personal evaluation of those books listed above. |
| The WarOverlord09-15-07, 03:35 AM | It seems that 4e is going to be a big change, as much as 3e was, if not more. With the mechanics of change comes a massive lore change as well; we have already seen some of that with the deaths of Halaster and Blackstaff, the published changes on the Great Wheel, etc. WOTC prides itself on listening to the customers, and overall they do a good job. They fixed (or at least tried to) polymorph, made melee viable, and are giving us Grand History of the Realms. Maybe they will listen to this thread. Feel free to answer any or all of these questions. I will keep a running tally of yes, no and ambivalent/don't care for each. 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Read the Cliff notes version of it in the Atlas. It was fine 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? All three are pretty hard to kill unless they "want to die" 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? As a owner of old but "retired" PCs in the 46th to 80th level ranges you are asking the wrong person....lol Adventure is for the young and reckless with more able bodies if you get my drift 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? The Sushi Cone Creatures? they taste great marinated in Teryaki sauce (of course you need to tear off there maw and arms first), gutted and stuffed with sweet vinegar rice but they, like the Sharn, are not as "omipotent" and "omnisentenent" as their Elders use to be and the few straglers left would have taken over the Realms already if they had the power 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Actually I like that the Realms in general is quiant and boring if you don't go looking for trouble. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Demonology point of view, how outerplainar creatures are classified, is like any other science-psuedo-science....the ideas of how to classify things for prosperity tend to change with the times but it is still basically the same thing 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? What will the mindless, zealot communistic religious fanatics do without their sources of subjecation and supression? I'd throw a party...lol 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? All godlings are trivial and as useless as politicians you udse those that believe in them fof their own gain. Most people worshit them don't think they would be able to survive without them and they like their individual patron's quirks so.... 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? The Realms are assbackward in Technology and such but that is a part of the Charm and, like I stated earlier, the ability to actually not get into trouble if you don't go looking for it makes it a nice place to retire to 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? I still mostly own 1st and 2nd addition stuff as I am more of a collector then a user of the Material. Still don't dare much for the lost of the Classical Bard, Barbarian, or Knight so I mostly Ignor 3rd addition....lol |
| Reneshat09-15-07, 08:45 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Like many here I came in after it, so to me it was just something in the past. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Halaster and Blackstaff, yes. I like deaths to mean something, and I don't like them bringing people back whether it is from novels, comic books, or TV series. As far as Elminster is concerned, he should ascend and replace Mystra. I think that's been a long time coming. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? No they are not destablizing. However, I think there are just too many epic level characters. It is more than a little ridiculous. With little effort, one could probably field two epic level armies to face each other. I would weed out about half of the visible important Epic NPCs, and most of the non visible Epic NPCs. I think it would make the numbers more manageable. Once again, I don't think they ruin the campaign, I just think there are too many of them. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Why? Is there a sudden void of enemies or RSEs at the moment? 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Eh, the setting already accounts for this play style in many places, I don't see why it would need to be converted. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. I will wait until I see exactly how they do it before I decide one way or another on this. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? Nope. I think their meddling and the specifics on why and how they meddle is great flavor for the world. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Like the Epic level NPCs, I think there are just too many gods. There is far too much crossover, and it could do with some weeding. However, this doesn't mean we get rid of half of the gods, simply the extra redundant ones without particularly distinct flavor. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Not really. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Most likely. |
| MerrikCale09-15-07, 09:08 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Like many here I came in after it, so to me it was just something in the past. Am I officially old? |
| Yaeri09-15-07, 09:31 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yes (It was one of the things I found very interesting when playing Baldur's gate, and pulled me to the D&D game) 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Don't care. (I prefer changes over things going stale. But there are no characters in particular that I feel should die or stay dead. The most important thing is that these things don't remain invulnerable/untouchable.) 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? no 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)?Don't care. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape.no 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. It's good that they try different things. If everyone stuck to the things that worked and everyone was used to, we'd still be in the stone age. I like the idea of the different types of outsiders having distinct looks/traits. I found demons good as they were: pure chaos and thus appearing in all forms and sorts. I don't care in particular about Erynyes and succubi, as I've never used Erynyes. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? Nope. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Not per say. They should evolve over the years though. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? no? I don't know anything about new jedi order. But with the novels as probable main cause, things do keep changing in the realms. For example Khelben dying as you mentioned above. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today?maybe That depends on too many things to give a clear answer to. In general, I believe the realms should keep changing. I believe they should be changing over the course of many years though, not great events every single year that throw half the realms into chaos. I definitely want the designers of 4th edition to take all the freedom they need in creating core 4th edition. I also think if things are changed for core that don't make a lot of sense for the realms, then the realms should stick to their own version, just like in 3rd edition. In the forgotten realms campaign setting there's a section about all the races and subraces in the realms as opposed to in core. I see no reason why that couldn't remain the same in 4th edition, even if mechanically, 4th edition gets rid of subraces. (This is just an example) |
| That_GD_Drow09-15-07, 09:46 AM | 1. It was something new and fun. 2. No, nothing is ever fixed in stone...not in a magical world. And yes, because meaningful deaths have meaning and comic book returns are just annoying. But it truly all depends more on the DM and the Group for such decisions than on the publisher for such decisions at the end of the day. 3. Never. If not for them, what would PC's have to aspire to become like and overthrow? :schemes: 4. Why not? Could be fun.........in time. Slow down, developers. Easy now.... 5. The PC's are the only Points of Light in a campaign. The cities are just the color and the setting, nothing more. 6. I prefer the old books but again, it's more up to the DM & Group than the publisher. Things always change. 7. Depends on the campaign more than the literature. I've no personal opinion really. 8. Why bother? The more, the merrier. It gives options. Nobody says you have to use them. 9. NEVER. Don't let the developers even hear you saying that aloud. 10. Yes. I'll probably play til the day I die and new info will ALWAYS be needed. |
| Palindrome09-15-07, 11:08 AM | It seems that 4e is going to be a big change, as much as 3e was, if not more. With the mechanics of change comes a massive lore change as well; we have already seen some of that with the deaths of Halaster and Blackstaff, the published changes on the Great Wheel, etc. WOTC prides itself on listening to the customers, and overall they do a good job. They fixed (or at least tried to) polymorph, made melee viable, and are giving us Grand History of the Realms. Maybe they will listen to this thread. Feel free to answer any or all of these questions. I will keep a running tally of yes, no and ambivalent/don't care for each. 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yes 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? No, Yes, Yes 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? No. No. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Yes 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Hell. No. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. No. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? No. |
| Loreseeker09-15-07, 04:24 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Not so much. World-shaking events to explain rule changes are just not my thing. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Halaster ... if he's dead, he should stay so. Though he shouldn't have died. Blackstaff ... one of my favorite characters, I'm tempted to say he should come back, though usually I'm more of a "dead-should-stay-dead-for-most-of-the-time"-guy :-) Elminster ... is he dead? He's just missing, as far as I know. ... Well, I'm really tired of Elminster. I'd say, let him die or vanish and let him rest in peace. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? No. My campaign is my own - it doesn't matter whether the FRCS says NCP X is level 100 or level 10 ... in the end I'm the DM and can decide what I use, what I change and what I discard of a RPG-products content. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Currently? No. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. There are already more than enough "points of light"-areas in the realms, IMO! And if not, a DM always can introduce new ones. I prefer a consistent setting ... rule changes should not change a setting too much ... (I dislike things like e.g. halflings suddenly mutating to toned-down-kender because the rules changed them! ... I love kender, but in DL). 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. No. I prefer consistency in a setting, even if the rules change. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? Less active role, maybe. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Well, that depends on which gods. For ex., what I've read about Helm being killed by Tyr doesn't sit well with me. But gods like Siamorphe could vanish. But opinions on this matter will surely vary greatly. Some people like god X, some god Y. As I said above: I prefer consistency! If suddenly a whole lot of gods is killed, vanishes, merges with other gods in just a few years while they've existed for millenia or more without too much such occurences (the Time of Troubles, which was also a world-shaking event used as a vehicle for rules-changes, taken aside), I for one won't be too glad about it. Pantheons ... This is a tough one. Racial pantheons should stay (though not necessarily each god, but as I've said, this is a matter of personal opinion). Also those of large nations. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No! 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? *shrug* That depends. Maybe, maybe not. Probably no RPG-stuff, but I guess at least some of the novels -- if they don't introduce things that put me (too much ) off! PrC-names, half-dragons or half-demons / -fiends, or planetouched creatures in almost every new, 3E-influenced novel are a sore point to me, but haven't managed to stop me reading FR-novles (yet?). |
| Mr_Miscellany09-15-07, 05:27 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? NO 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? YESx3 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? NO 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? YES 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. YES 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. YES 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? NO, NO 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? NO , YES 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? YES 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? YES , provided they fueled my imagination. |
| Wolfpack7509-16-07, 02:04 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? I never played/ran the Realms prior to ToT. I feel that it did add a level of excitement. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Yes to all or at least marginalized. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? It doesn't destabilize the campaign but it does make the players wonder why (if the entire realms is threatened with destruction) the high powered characters are not working to end the problem instead of the party (or with the party). 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Yes and no...I didn't like the phaerim(sp?) and shades, but the idea of a massive humanoid invasion appeals. Just don't want to see an invasion every edition (or half an edition, whatever). 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. No, that is up to the DM 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Don't really care at all...I will run them the way I want to run them 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No, the active participation of the gods is what distinguishes the Realms from other settings. I would like to see less "chosen" of various dieties. The NPC's are already incredibly powerful, do they also need to contain a bit of the god's divinity too? 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Yes and no...I would like to see all of the gods presented fully in the 4E FRCS but with optional rules (a framework) that would help the DM to limit the gods (perhaps a simple way of combining similar gods). 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Yes...I feel that the Realms need a shake up...Not in flavor text, more in a crunchy way that distinguishes the setting from others out there. Perhaps pick a city or region to focus on and make the "default" home base for adventures in the Realms and delve indepth into the 5 questions(why, how, what, who, where) so that dm's can plunk their players into the setting without having to create everything from scratch. The current situation of having very few adventures for the Realms come out and they are all over the map doesn't lend itself to easily sending the party into an off the shelf adventure. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Depends....On whether I am playing 4E, how different 4E is from 3E (I never downgraded to 3.5 ;)) and whether I can still use the information without making huge adjustments. I am sure I am not alone in working full time and having players that work more than full time (we play once a month), it would be nice to see the FR become more of a focused setting versus what it is now. =Dan |
| Faraer09-16-07, 04:45 PM | 1. To quote myself:The Avatar crisis achieved no worthwhile aim, wasted a lot of publishing resources, set the destructive precedent for the Realms-Shaking Events that followed, misportrayed several prominent characters, gave a lot of people wrong ideas about gods in Faerûn, introduced an inappropriate cryptomonotheist depiction of the afterlife, and destroyed several excellent gods (just two years after the Realms was published as a setting) and replaced them with new novel characters for no reason that anyone involved who I've asked can remember. The chaotic mess of publishing the damn thing was known as the Avatar Vortex within TSR. The concept was, ironically, first proposed by Ed Greenwood himself, in "Down-to-earth divinity" (Dragon #54), seven years earlier: 'Another mechanism for keeping things under control is the “Godswar.” This concept is also a good justification to cover the changeover of a campaign from D&D rules to AD&D rules—and will also justify any other divine revisions the DM feels necessary, once.' I would guess he regrets writing that. The Time of Troubles is not part of my Realms. 2, 5, 6, 8, 10. The idea that the published Realms 'should' do this or that, presumably to match some preference of mine, is not even a coherently formed thought, let alone a sensical one. As with the 3E changes, I think that for Wizards to impose on the Realms ideas and design principles contradictory to its own would be an act of sabotage that oversteps their duties as custodians of the setting. 3. Destabilizes? No, why would it? I've not heard that suggested, let alone read of it happening. 4. An invasion of 'the Realms' is almost off-genre. Invasions of parts of the Realms are bound to happen, but have already been overdone in the recent official timeline. 7. Less active than in the balance of Realmslore, see second answer. Less active than in recent novels, yes. 9. Stale, no. Fix it with a reboot? See above. If it meant (unlike in the Star Wars EU) that the earlier timeline would be abandoned, that we would read no more of the 14th-century Realms, that would be a travesty. It is not and never has been artificial, high-concept, top-down-imposed RSEs that make the Realms live, but its interrelatedness, complexity, current clack, vivid characters, and the strange yet familiar social mores, speech, magic, traditions and novelties of life in Faerûn. 10. Depends on what the difference is and who's writing them. |
| Dark Wizard09-16-07, 05:29 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? - I have little nothing against the general concept, but the details, the characters, and execution were abysmal. For the most part, all the negative things said about the Realms are tied to this event. It's a RSE alright, it increased the people who dislike the Realms several fold in my opinion. In the end it is a net loss for the Realms. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? - Halaster, no. Why are they killing evil characters if they want a darker Realms? Blackstaff, yes he should stay dead given the integrated plot surrounding his sacrifice. However, I think someone should return to take the mantle of Blackstaff, perhaps his relative returning from Greyhawk in collaboration with Tsarra. The concept of the "Blackstaff" could become an "immortal idea" that is passed through the generations. The original Blackstaff was one of the major gray characters. Someone like him could have promoted the grayness that is people keep saying they want in a setting. Elminster should probably really take a backseat from now on. He should return to being a sage rather than an active hero. He should be virtually "dead" to the Realms, but whether that means actual death, imprisonment, stasis, ascension or actual retirement I'm not sure. I think most of the problems of high-level character stereotypes are tied back to him. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? - They don't and shouldn't be removed. I do think it would help to de-emphasize them in the novels and sourcebooks. Whether or not they do anything is irrelevant as long as the fan perception of them is that they don't. Many settings have massively powerful characters, but the difference is not that they don't do anything, it's that the players and fans don't think, realize, feel, or believe they're messing with everything. Most of this problem lies in perception, not the actuality of the lore. They should relate to the setting more in the style of mystery and intrigue rather than blatant, gratuitous, flashy action. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? - Depends on what the invasion is and how it's handled. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. - This is irrelevant, the Realms for the most part already are points of light. Rich Baker's comment about the Realms using a bit more PoL could be accomplished through presentation and re-framing of the setting (such as writing style and emphasis in the sourcebooks or appropriate adventure set up). 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. - I find the change a bit bland and pointless. It's change for changes sake without any significant reason. Entirely unnecessary. Also detailing too much of the Devil's history and tying them too closely to Judeo-Christian myth takes away from their mystique, which is one of the pillars of their appeal and menace. The same holds for all the fiends and practically all monsters with history. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? - Disappear, certainly not. This would become Dragonlance or Dark Sun. They should maintain their active role. The problem is again perception. Due to events like the ToT people commonly believe avatars coming down to smack characters around is regular occurrence. The gods can remain active without flashy appearances. Their appearances should be more mysterious, more subtle. Avatar are truly powerful when they can take an unassuming form, whisper a word, and have great influence just like that. Basically if the deities aren't dumb down into high level monsters, if they have a sense of the unknownable about them, they're good deities for gaming and stories. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? - Even the trivial gods shouldn't be removed. :) Pantheons should stay the way they are. The Faerunian pantheon is already stretching things a bit by having one pantheon absorb so many. If anything, more pantheons might make all the gods easier to organize, thus easier for newcomers to jump into the setting. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? - No. A massive reboot makes many feel the changes are incongruous with what they have been playing. You lose a portion of the audience without a guaranteed gain in another sector of the market (people who hate the Realms are unlikely to play it after just a few superficial changes and the biggest offending NPCs still around). 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? - Depends on the differences and then again on the execution. I'm willing to give things a chance. I do hope that the recent changes are just a hint of things to come because they're just too bare bones to feel as significant as their effect. |
| capnvan09-16-07, 06:06 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Nope. Never really thought it made any sense. Never thought there was a problem that needed to be solved. Never felt the setting needed that kind of calamity. Never particularly understood the way the whole thing and its repercussions worked out anyway - Bane's dead, Cyric's got his portfolio. Oops, not anymore! Oh, now Xvim's dead! And now we've gone through these massive changes and disruption for, well, not a whole lot, huh? 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? If it helps to move the story forward in a coherent manner, sure. I consider them nothing more than plot factors, anyway. I mean, if your PCs are interacting with them, as a DM, I'd suggest that you've let them get way too powerful. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? Others have asked whether the question refers to NPCs or PCs, and that's an important distinction. High level NPCs aren't a problem, per se, but then, like the gods ought to be (and regrettably were not in the most recent edition), they don't to be statted. The key explanation should be, "They're more powerful than the PCs." 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? For [insert deity of choice here]'s sake, no! Is it any wonder that there are so many high-level NPCs in the Realms? All the low level folks have been killed off! If anything like the post-ToT timeline had occurred in this reality, there'd be about 1000 of us left, huddling around a campfire, waiting for extinction. Enough is enough. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Of course not! That would not be the Realms. I dunno, I've never played World of Warcrack. Maybe that's where the idea comes from. Frankly, I haven't paid sufficient attention to it. But then, it's difficult to conceive of large portions of the Realms as falling into that concept. Certain parts, I'll confess, already do. "Gosh, there's more settled lands, and then there are areas that are more of a frontier, and there's wilderness, too! Why, that sounds like a vibrant world that actually has internal coherence! We should nuke and pave that right away." :banghead: 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. I've already dealt with enough frickin' changes in demons and devils for my taste. I don't mind all that much if they can finally pick something, but the problem is knowing that they'll just change it again. But no, I'm not a fan of the fallen celestials. This isn't Biblical Demonology 402b. And, given that I find seduction of those who have taken vows (as they were originally, either married men or monks in the Christian tradition) as being chaotic, I fail to understand how they work as Lawful Evil. But that's just me. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? In general, yes, but again, it's not a problem as long as the story moves forward in a coherent manner. Jerking from crisis, to revelation, to invasion, to goddeath, to godresurrection, doesn't speak to the "coherent" in me. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Again, in large part these concerns/problems have resulted out of poor design choices — I need this here, let's toss in the Egyptian mythos there, to cover this need, I want to use this guy, so that presumes that... Again, as I mentioned above, that's not a problem per se. The problem remains that I don't have a whole lot of faith that the problems won't simply recur. Or that the manner in which any perceived problems will be "rectified" will be any less problematic. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? I've never thought the Realms were stale. The biggest problem I've had is the sense that the designers have been unwilling to write "small." To write interesting stories, lore, and adventures that don't require altering the fabric of the Realms. It seems like every time out of the gate, be it novel or adventure (after a certain level) or even supplement, there's a new threat to everything that's decent in the Realms. Now that, I find stale and boring. That I'd like to see changed. There was recent thread about the Knights of Myth Drannor. One of the great things about that group in the 1st FRCS was that they weren't changing the world. They'd taken some steps in fighting the Zhentarim, and they'd helped keep Shadowdale free, and they'd hit a temple of Bane (IIRC) in Voonlar. But the fundamental balance of power hadn't changed. Doust had essentially retired, and I think he was 8th level. He'd had a cool, interesting career, and now was moving on to fulfill what he saw as his calling, back to the temple of Tymora in Eveningstar (again, this is all in recollection, so forgive my failures with exact details). And perhaps the best part was that they weren't even the most powerful adventuring band in Shadowdale (Mane's Band were the resident top guns). Taken all together, I say that's an interesting situation. That's something I want to read more about. Azoun's fighting the Horde in March, the ghazneths in April, and super-bad dragon in May? Yawn. :bored: 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Regrettably, I'm already at the point of giving up. |
| MarkusTay6309-16-07, 07:11 PM | 1) No 2) No, Yes, and maybe 3) No, that is just a sign of poor DMing 4) Truth be told, yes (but NATIVE, not multi-dimensional) 5) It already was, you would have to be blind not to see it 6) Yes, this is closer in keeping with RW mythology and folklore, and further seperates the two groups by more then just alignment 7) I like gods, but FR did have quite a few. I'd rather see a 'waxing and waning' of individual gods, rather then this 'Ragnarok' approach. Gods need not die off, thats just plain silly. I'd much prefer they just be 'forgotten' 8) I see a benefit to game mechanics by combining them, but they lose quite a bit of cultural flavor that way. As a DM, I like them combined. As a player and fan, I prefer them seperate - sorry, not much answer there. Mystra was just 'too big' for her britches, and she needed to be scaled back. She needn't have died, but bringer her back to an earlier, simpler aspect (like Mystryl) that didn't involve herself in the day-to-day events of Faerûn would have been more believable in a supreme goddess of magic. leave the human-divine interaction to demi-gods and arch-fiends; greater gods already have enough to do. Thats like us studying the social interaction of ants. 9) Personally, the Realms did need to be freshened up, but there are other methods that could have been implimented. Just moving the timeline ahead 10 years without an RSE should have been enough. To revert to mass destruction is the sign of unimaginative, brutish mind. A thinker uses finesse, not a club. This is the difference between an Orc and a Drow, BTW. 10) Yes, if they created a quality environment for me and my players to game in. I could say the same for ANY setting - the 'new' realms are just that, NEW. I feel no brand loyalty to the monicker any longer, but I will look at this new world WotC is offering up for 4e, same as I would any other. In other words, they better friggin' AMAZE ME... and I'm talking about in a good way, this time... :bored: |
| Ainaelin09-16-07, 07:49 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Not really. I'm not really prone to play Gods or god worshippers. However, I think it ended up adding a lot to divine classes, and finding a special relation between your character and the divine around him. I know some of my fellow players loved it. So, even though I personally did not like it, I think it was a clever idea. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? First, I did not know they were dead. As such, I have no idea how they died, which means I can only answer based on their usefulness in my games. I don't care about Halaster. I disliked Blackstaff, but he was useful in some ways. I am wary of Elminster, but kind of like him. And I think he is very useful in the Realms. So : don't care, no, no. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? Not at all to both questions. Why should the PCs be the only ones to be high-level? Only beause they are to be the focus to the campaign? They can be the focus even when there are other high-level characters. And those powerful characters help balance the campaign world. Besides, many players are happy when their characters meet wome powerful and famous character. They might not be as happy to meet the so-called great hero "John Doe", but meeting Artemis Entreri (when their players DO know the name), it's really something to recall! 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? No for a decade or two (in game terms), at the very least... 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Certainly not! Where would the Rangers and Druids have their sanctuaries, then? Why would the wilderness be all bad? Why would cities be all good for that matter? Both have their dangers and havens! I would hate the points-of-light system brought on to the Realms! 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Never heard of that one, but from you say of it, I mostly dislike it... Devils being fallen Celestials is too close to christianity. D&D is obviously on that theme already, but has deviated enough to now be something of its own. If they go back to some Christian-like stuff, I might well go back to my own home-made worlds. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? Yes, I certainly do. My players are not so kin on that, though, so let's keep it that way, I guess. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No, the only thing that is good to the Gods in the Realms is the vast diversity of them. To each his god. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No, I like it the way they are. Maybe they have lived through too massive upheavals, from what I read in the recent years (1372/73/74) from different chronologies found on the net, but I still like the general feel of them. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? It depends on how different. Not how much different, but how. What differences? |
| Reneshat09-16-07, 10:11 PM | Am I officially old? Nahh, I'm just young. |
| Reneshat09-17-07, 01:46 AM | I've never thought the Realms were stale. The biggest problem I've had is the sense that the designers have been unwilling to write "small." To write interesting stories, lore, and adventures that don't require altering the fabric of the Realms. It seems like every time out of the gate, be it novel or adventure (after a certain level) or even supplement, there's a new threat to everything that's decent in the Realms. I'm not sure I could agree with that more. I would rather read about a band of low to mid level adventurers not changing the world, but experiencing it, any day of the week. It would also go a LONG way towards keeping the level of consistency that everyone would like in the Realms. That doesn't mean that things stay the same way, but simple small scale plots between gods, and basic political upheaval in the Realms would still keep it vibrant, and be a far cry from having a different apocalypse for every day of the week. |
| Ainaelin09-17-07, 06:30 AM | I'm not sure I could agree with that more. I would rather read about a band of low to mid level adventurers not changing the world, but experiencing it, any day of the week. It would also go a LONG way towards keeping the level of consistency that everyone would like in the Realms. That doesn't mean that things stay the same way, but simple small scale plots between gods, and basic political upheaval in the Realms would still keep it vibrant, and be a far cry from having a different apocalypse for every day of the week. Exactly the feeling I had, and the reason i do not want such massive upheavals anymore for a few decades in game term... A few local threats are enough to keep adventurers on their toes, even high-level ones, when the DM thinks on what he's doing. |
| Petrankov09-17-07, 03:35 PM | Feel free to answer any or all of these questions. I will keep a running tally of yes, no and ambivalent/don't care for each. 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yes. Actually I did. I re-ran the adventures not so long ago and with some adaptation they were quite good. However, some elements I did not like and left them out. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? Halaster's death we need to learn more about I think before we can say good or bad. So maybe. Blackstaff's death made sense. Yes. Elminster is not dead nor do I think he should be, if he dies thogh I have no objection so long a it is a good (interesting) death. So maybe. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? No. They should only be removed by a DM if he feels they destabilize his game. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? No. I enjoy regional conflict but nothing world wide. I don't think the Realms are really designed for that sort of event. However, if done well I would not have a problem with it. Personally I am not planning on converting to 4E so I will probably buy Realms products under 4E to continue following the storylnes, not to actually use in game. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. That is sort of how it is now in a way isn't it? There are probably as many kingdoms of evil as there are of good. There needs to be some kind of tension and war or where will adventurers find adventure? 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. No, not crazy about it but then I am not converting to 4E so I don't really care how they are classified under 4E. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No. I think the Gods are interesting when they intervene so long as they are not CONSTANTLY intervening. I think the Realms have a good balance in the amount of stories with and without direct divine influence. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No, I think the whole idea of the Forgotten Realms is that there are numerous disparate gods and cultures. Now this may not have been Eds original intention but it is what we got now and it is good. I think that more choices means more unique opportunity for adventures. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Nope, I think they are as vibrant as ever. However, I understand this is a business and sometimes things have to be "shaken up" to create expanded interest. Sometimes bringing in new people will result in losing old ones. Case in point I used to buy music made by Metallica. They decided to reboot their image from Metal Gods to whatever they are now, I don't know I don't buy their stuff anymore. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Yes I think the writers do a good job. If the changes are so drastic that I don't like them I will stop buying though. In a capitalist society money talks...... 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? NO! I like Eberron. I have added Warforged to my campaign. BUT. That should be a DM choice. I don't have the Circle of Eight, Iuz, Draconians, Knights of Solamnia or the Psionic Dragon Kings in my game nor do I believe they belong there. That being said I continue to enjoy Dragonlance fiction and I still have a soft spot for Greyhawk and Dark Sun. Some things should be unique to the settings that spawned them. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-17-07, 04:11 PM | 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? Nope! |
| Crazygx3409-18-07, 02:57 AM | 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? YEs. I think Eberron should merge with Fr. They should include the best of it in fr. Like Sharn-city of tower. I think it could make a great city in Faerun. War-forged it great, air-ship but something should be left behind like heir thing and some other weird thing. 10) Yes I will but only the necessary. 9) no opion....don't know of new order of Jedi...sorry 1 to 8 see previously on this post...:) |
| capnvan09-18-07, 06:16 AM | 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? YEs. I think Eberron should merge with Fr. They should include the best of it in fr. Like Sharn-city of tower. I think it could make a great city in Faerun. War-forged it great, air-ship but something should be left behind like heir thing and some other weird thing. In reverse order: Um, you do recognize that the Realms already has airships, right? They're very rare, for fairly obvious reasons, but they do exist. War-forged? The Realms have those as well - they're called golems :P Eberron merging? Well, at least we know why "crazy" is in your nick. |
| Zanan09-18-07, 08:13 AM | Save the Realms? Well, the Realms are not our property and whether we like it or not, the plan for 4E has been set and will steamroll over us no matter what we say. Essentially, we only know a few tidbits and have no clue what will happen after 1385. Well, apart from the news that the years go on like ... 1386 Year of the Halfling's Lament 1387 Year of the Emerald Ermine 1388 Year of the Tanarukka 1389 Year of the Forgiven Foes 1390 Year of the Walking Man ... For whatever reason those in power have decided that the Realms need another ... no, make that their own Ragnarök. Well, it is not the end of all hope - unless you are a arcane spellcaster or a priest - but it does look to be a strange decision nonetheless. We are all left at guesswork regarding the future and how the world will change (in accordance with the new edition :rolleyes: - has a rules system change ever had such an impact?). Will we be anticipating this with our breaths held? Possibly. Some maybe. Is it new? Yes ... well, apart from Vampire - The Apocalypse, Earthdawn, Fallout, Shadowrun (?), Engel ... you name it. I for one cannot see any reason in this. |
| Crazygx3409-18-07, 08:49 AM | In reverse order: Um, you do recognize that the Realms already has airships, right? They're very rare, for fairly obvious reasons, but they do exist. War-forged? The Realms have those as well - they're called golems :P Eberron merging? Well, at least we know why "crazy" is in your nick. Hello! Thank to you for your worryness about my post.. Well it just my opinion I know you can disagree....Sorry if I hurt your sense of right...:) But like you said airship are really rare in Faerun, floating ship exist also. But you will see in the futur who rigth we can see more air-ship..:embarrass Well war-forged is a characters classe in Eberron and got is own personality, golem are puppet like machine controled by magic. The robots in Fullmetal are more like war-forged own personality and talking...Golems are more like robot who need order... A lot of other thing is good in Eberron I think they got pistol... And well sorry if i'm in the nick but I got my own opinion and I don't want to be like anybody else...I'm don't act like someone else ,I just be myself...And well I can be wrong some time and grammar error a lot and change my mind often, but that what make me human..And well again I don't know D&D like a lot of people in this forum who got a real passions , but well I like fantasy to and science-fiction like star-wars...I know often I get corriged by other of the truth of my affirmation...But what I know and what I read in d&d master of the dungeon 3.5.. Rule are not there for be learn by the hearth, yes we can use them, but they are much there for inspired us in created our own world and items and classes, story, monster,city, history. Yes I got lot of imagination and yes I don't like to be said what to have to be done but I'm not in the nick , maybe in the moon or space,in the pants or in the bra for the more pervert but I assure I'm not in the nick of anyone...:) |
| Crazygx3409-18-07, 08:57 AM | And here a post on war-forged introduce to the realms http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13823011#post13823011 I'm not the only one ...many before me..:pile: |
| Zanan09-18-07, 09:17 AM | Oh yes ... warforged to the Realms, and Lightning Rail, ... make them "Eberron Mk. II". How ingenious ... and what a decent way to make the Realms an obsolete setting. :rolleyes: |
| NoirLotus09-18-07, 10:27 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? I started playing in the FR at the end of 2nd edtion so it really didn't matter to me but I'm not very fond of this kind of ultra big sudden events. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster? Yes, yes and absolutely yes, plus a free beer for the first one who brings me the still-beating heart of Drizzt. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? No DM is forced to put high-level NPCs in his game but you can't ignore their existence : how can you put an intrigue in Waterdeep where there is an archmage in each street ? The major problem with FR NPCs is that too much of them are epic level (or close to epic) : their power seems so high that low-level characters feel somekind of frustation, as if they were "insects among the gods". But removing them is not necessary, you can easily remove them a few levels, as for Alusair (who passed from level 15 to 7-9 between 2nd and 3rd). 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? NO !!! FR have enough inside ennemies (drows, Zhentarim, Thay), avoid the every-day-invasion syndrome that appeared in L5R : 30 years of invasion, internal wars and epidemies on a surface of the size of Belgium and the country is still running without any major evolution. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Some places are already PoL, but the major problem is that a lot of places are not and they are supposed to have a lot of adventurers : Cormyr is a country where you can easily travel without protection, so why so many adventurers from there ? and how do they gain their first levels : chasing rats in the cellar (like in Baldur's Gate videogame :P ) ? 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. No special feeling about it : I will wait to see what it is exactly. I hope that the new devils will be like masterminds trying to lure and corrupt humans, leaving the demons being the cruel and ravaging beasts of the inferior planes. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? & 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? The FR pantheon is a great problem : * first, except a few ones (like Shauntea), all the good gods are for PCs, and the evil ones for BBEGs. FR really need gods for everyday people : who are the equivalent of Hera (greek goddess of fecondity, marriage and protector of pregnant women) or Vesta (roman goddess of family and home) in the FR ? * then you have some gods who are really similar and should be merged : Tyr, Thorm and Helm are the perfect examples. Which setting needs 3 gods of Law, Honor & Chivalry ??? Why 2 gods for fighting undeath : Kelemvor and Lathander ?? 2 gods of Magic : Mystra, Azuth ? For the role of gods in the FR events, I think that it is a little bit like with NPCs : it gives to the setting an epic aspect that alters how players see the universe. Giving a little more freedom of choice to faerunians would be good. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? I didn't follow the change in NJO. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? It will strongly depend on what the FR will become !! |
| capnvan09-18-07, 10:33 AM | And here a post on war-forged introduce to the realms http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13823011#post13823011 I'm not the only one ...many before me..:pile: Really. Had you looked closer, you might have seen that some of us have already commented in that thread. |
| capnvan09-18-07, 10:46 AM | Hello! Thank to you for your worryness about my post.. Well it just my opinion I know you can disagree....Sorry if I hurt your sense of right...:) But like you said airship are really rare in Faerun, floating ship exist also. But you will see in the futur who rigth we can see more air-ship..:embarrass Well war-forged is a characters classe in Eberron and got is own personality, golem are puppet like machine controled by magic. The robots in Fullmetal are more like war-forged own personality and talking...Golems are more like robot who need order... A lot of other thing is good in Eberron I think they got pistol... ... Yes I got lot of imagination and yes I don't like to be said what to have to be done but I'm not in the nick , maybe in the moon or space,in the pants or in the bra for the more pervert but I assure I'm not in the nick of anyone...:) I apologize, because my earlier reply, to which you chose to reply, neglected to take into account potential language difficulties. So what was intended as humor may not have come off that way. And I mean no offense here, either, because I have no doubt that your English is significantly better than my Quebecois. Among other things, "nick" is a shortened form of nickname, or user name. But. To get back to the point: in Eberron, the war-forged exist because they were created to fight the war whose aftermath dominates that campaign setting. In that context, they make sense. Having been created for a war that is now over, they even have interesting potential character hooks. Where do they come from in the Realms? Is there some all-consuming war that I've missed? They don't breed, so they're not really a race. Where would they come from? Netheril? And they're still around millenia later? As someone has mentioned (I believe in the other thread), 1 or 2, perhaps, but as a character race? Airships. That I'll just leave where it is, and move on to the greater point: Eberron and the Realms are different. And that's a good thing! Is it really so wrong to leave it that way? In Eberron, magic has been reduced to the level of science. It takes the place of technology. And that's fine in Eberron. But in the Realms, magic is the Art. They're fundamentally incompatible. Trying to unify them is, in short, crazy. |
| Faraer09-18-07, 11:05 AM | . . . how can you put an intrigue in WaterdeepRead City of Splendors: A Waterdeep Novel.where there is an archmage in each street ?There isn't. Please don't repeat obvious untruths about the Realms.Cormyr is a country where you can easily travel without protection, No, it isn't. Read Swords of Eveningstar, Swords of Dragonfire, and Volo's Guide to Cormyr.so why so many adventurers from there ? and how do they gain their first levels : chasing rats in the cellar (like in Baldur's Gate videogame :P ) ?See above.The FR pantheon is a great problem : * first, except a few ones (like Shauntea), all the good gods are for PCs, and the evil ones for BBEGs.Not so, as a closer reading of the sources -- of Faiths & Avatars or just the table in Cyclopedia of the Realms p. 18 -- shows. It's our focus on them that's been through adventurers and villains. |
| ShadezofDis09-18-07, 11:12 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Eh, not much of an opinion, I came in just post ToT and the ToT didn't change the Realms as I know them all that much, a couple gods died, a few mortals ascended, ect. However, the one thing I HATE about the ToT is how the Gods got center stage and continued to be major factors in plots. Gods, IMO, should stay at arms length (more than any epic NPC) and work through a couple of visions or agents (not avatars) in order to plant the seed of an idea, the pebble that causes the landslide type idea, or the butterfly who causes a hurricane. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? Blackstaff yes. Halaster. . . I can't say, haven't actually read it but it sounds pretty awful and I really like Halaster as was. If there is a quality reason, rather than a "We decided Halaster had to go because he can do X, Y and Z" then I might just vomit in my mouth a little, there is some great potential for Halaster plot though. If Halaster was working on what originally drove him insane (ie. the spellplague or something associated with it) and he underestimated what he was working with, then I can see it being an alright move. Elminster, I like him, he's an interesting character but it all depends on how it's done and how they have the reaction of his disappearance (ie. some of the evil players of the realms start having their plots work better because the Old Mage isn't around to throw some catnip in with their dried assassin vine root to disrupt their research) 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? Not really, though I would like some detail on what an archmage does with his/her day and I'd like to see the idea that magic is addictive and the accumulation of power and use of magic is addictive be shown more. Perhaps a few shorts about high powered mages working on things, with some of them getting attacked by others who want their art. Some, the ones who work slowly and keep most of their spells available for defense, surviving and others, who either are showing off or wasting their spells, getting taken out. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? No thanks, we're all full up in here. I'd much rather see the ramification of events portrayed. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. It is a "points of light" setting. It's a shame that, apparently, a lot of people do not see that. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Sounds sorta dumb but I don't like the way they do outsiders in the first place, I have my own system/theories for the outside. I developed these things when I was thinking about the Great Tree vs the Great Wheel and how much I hated the fact that the embodiments of evil in the WHOLE FRIGGIN UNIVERSE would get their behinds handed to them by a god. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? I don't think they should disappear but they shouldn't be taking direct action on Toril, they should be working through their churches and through their agents. Take the focus off of gods/goddesses and put the focus on clergy and agents. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Eh, not really but if it were executed properly I might not mind. I'd much rather see robust pantheons, as is there are almost no evil demihuman gods (ie. Dwarven pantheon, Elven pantheon, Gnomish pantheon, Halfling pantheon) nor are there really any neutral or good humanoid gods. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Nope. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Depends on what it looks like. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? Not as wholesale retcons (though the story from aGHotR was pretty decent and doesn't make me want to vomit in my mouth). |
| Flecha09-18-07, 11:27 AM | I think that the extreme changes we've seen (like the many deads) are too much, but I think just the last three questions need to be answered: 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? They're not stale at all, but "rebooting", that supposedly new concept, is precisely the way in which myths and stories go from one generation to the next, so it's the natural way of things. Just pray for the rebooting to be good: the new Galactica is fine, the New Jedi Order is a complete disaster. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? As per the previous answer, yes, always they keep their true flavour; that tolkien-esque one that has been somewhat diluted by Wizards in the 3rd edition. Let's ask for some old good FR, even if "rebooted". 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? As per the previous answer, no. Those elements define Eberron, and including them in the Realms would turn them into Eberron. Eberron, as we all know, is pulp-ish instead than tolkien-esque, so to speak. If I wanted to play Eberron, I'd play Eberron, I guess. Of course, if they want to include them, they'll do it no matter what we want, and they want to sell many warforged minis, so... Just remember when they turned *every* halfling into that aberrant abnormality perpetrated from the original halflings, called kenders... So my opinion is, don't panic, change is good, if it's done right. But if they do something horrible, it'll be like killing the Realms, and if they're dead... well, don't buy it. I have my hopes, though. |
| MarkusTay6309-18-07, 11:48 AM | Save the Realms? Well, the Realms are not our property and whether we like it or not, the plan for 4E has been set and will steamroll over us no matter what we say. Essentially, we only know a few tidbits and have no clue what will happen after 1385. Well, apart from the news that the years go on like ... 1386 Year of the Halfling's Lament - Luiren falls to crazed refugees 1387 Year of the Emerald Ermine - Druids and their magic get trrashed 1388 Year of the Tanarukka - Demon-Orcs pour forth from the earth, and destroy most of the North 1389 Year of the Forgiven Foes - Drizzt and Obould kiss and make up 1390 Year of the Walking Man - Elminster gets disgusted and goes for a stroll Those are my predictions, and they are only meant partially as jest. Forgiven Foes immediately following Tanarukks? That one is just TOO obvious... So Orcs and Humans (and Dwarves) will make piece after a mutual demonic threat. Note to designers - stop playing WoW and get your OWN ides - the Orcgate Wars were already too much of a rip-off from the original Warcraft games. Orcgate = Dark Portal - stop being so obviously uncreative. Sorry for the interruption - now back to our regularly scheduled topic: |
| NoirLotus09-18-07, 11:49 AM | Read City of Splendors: A Waterdeep Novel.There isn't. Please don't repeat obvious untruths about the Realms.No, it isn't. Read Swords of Eveningstar, Swords of Dragonfire, and Volo's Guide to Cormyr.See above. Eh man, iI'm using hyperboles for both Waterdeep and Cormyr but you know what I mean. Waterdeep has powerful representants of most churches and high-level NPCs so you wonder how it is possible for a vilain to put some king of mess in the city without being blown away before the PCs even hear about it. And Cormyr ... If you put apart the troubles of Azoun IV death, Cormyr is far from PoL : the army keeps the country safe and adventurers are not welcome. Sometimes, I wonder if goblins don't pay their taxes too ... Not so, as a closer reading of the sources -- of Faiths & Avatars or just the table in Cyclopedia of the Realms p. 18 -- shows. It's our focus on them that's been through adventurers and villains. Really ?? Ok Bob the farmer will ask Shauntea to have a good harvest, Hector the grocer wiill pray Waukeen for a good deal. Mary will ask Talos to avoid sending her and her family diseases, but who will she pray to have a child, keep her husband away from other women etc ?? |
| Faraer09-18-07, 12:23 PM | Waterdeep has powerful representants of most churches and high-level NPCs so you wonder how it is possible for a vilain to put some king of mess in the city without being blown away before the PCs even hear about it.You don't have to wonder; Realmslore has countless examples of how urban intrigue works.And Cormyr . . . the army keeps the country safe and adventurers are not welcome.The sources show otherwise. The Purple Dragons try to keep the land safe, but are far from completely successful -- to say nothing of internal scheming and discord. Adventurers are seen as a distasteful fact of life, whose role the government tries to constrain and direct, not exclude. Obviously a nation is not 'points of light', an extreme situation in which 'The centers of civilization are few and far between' and 'towns and villages do not stay in close contact'.Mary will ask Talos to avoid sending her and her family diseases, but who will she pray to have a child, keep her husband away from other women etc ??Lathander is the god of birth, and also of healers (including midwives), thus prayed to for safe births, as is Selûne (see Faiths & Avatars p. 135). Several gods are worshipped for fertility, perhaps Chauntea pre-eminently, though high fertility is normal, thus the common use of herbal contraceptives. The god of loyalty is Torm, while appeasement worship might be given to whichever god's influence, such as Tymora's, is suspected of leading the man astray. |
| Phaele09-18-07, 12:58 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? It was interesting. I ran a game set during the time period, but overall... god I HATE MIDNIGHT! Very unique and well done. It was a shock, but not a game killer. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? Halaster...he is iconic. I love Halaster, he killed my AD&D cleric once. Keep him in. I love Khelben. He is one of my favorites. I used him as a patron for adventurers once after they unknowingly did him a great service. Elminster... if he is gone I will be a very sad gamer. He has been my above all favorite novel character, as well as a staple in the realms for as long as I can remember. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? Absolutely not, on both counts. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? The Phaerimm....that means more Netheril. Other than that... nope. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. I'd prefer not. Part of the allure of The Realms is the diversity in culture and landscape. I don't want 3 Utopias and utterly decimated wasteland. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. Devils being fallen angels fits. Succubi are DEMONS, will always be DEMONS and screw Wizards for trying to tell me otherwise. Deneiralys, the Succubus Paladin/Cleric of Sune can tell you more if you stop by my house to game with me. *If* she lets you talk that is. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? NO NO NO NO NO. The multitude of Gods with Chosen and the overall flavor of The Realms would never be the same. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No. If it is too much work for new gamers to learn to read through a pantheon to choose a god, then they need to go back to the core rulebook and leave the Realms alone until they are more comfortable sifting through material. Or, have a DM like me who lets them know where conversion charts for Heironeus are. The Mulhorandi Pantheon is so so.... I have used them once or twice...but seriously...leave them in for cultural flavor 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No. I think that people just need to branch out of the Dale Lands or of the Spine of the World and go to Thay, or to Chult. That is more than enough change. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Sadly, yes. I have loved FR since the old AD&D box sets. Netheril: Empire of Magic still sits on my shelf along with the Module/Adventure for it. Will I be as fast or as ardent if people like Elminster are gone? No. Will I buy them for rules, and the resurrect every god/npc/etc. that in my opinion should not be gone? Yes. Yes I will. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? NO. Keep that crap out of the Realms. I think Eberron is the worst thing to happen to gaming in a long long time. Magic as technology utterly ruins the feel of High Fantasy That work for you? ^^ Phaele *as for Khelben, yeah... sadly he can stay dead.* |
| Lord Toast09-18-07, 01:12 PM | 1)Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yes. And I was playing in the Realms before ToT 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? No. Yes. Yes if Ed Greenwood does the story and No if anyone else tries too. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? Stealing a quote from RF : They should absolutely not be removed with the intention of "fixing" the setting. The stability of a campaign is on the DM, not some fictional characters. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Another question that can not be answered with a simple yes or no. I shall say it depends. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape? I agree with others, the Realms already have areas considered PoL. Just research the North or Moonseas area. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials.? Abstain. Honesty I could care less, an evil outsider is an evil outsider and should be defeated. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? A two part question. No to the first one. The only time my characters see an ‘active role’ is when they use divine magic. A Powers activity should be left to game supplements and books. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? Once again I am steali…err quoting from RF: What's a trivial god? What's a non-trivial god? Why should any of them be removed? And no, I like the pantheons as they are (there are already some crossovers, anyway). 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Another question that can’t be answered with a simple yes or no. I will use ‘maybe’. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? No. |
| Lord Toast09-18-07, 01:21 PM | [QUOTE=capnvan;13824042]Where do they come from in the Realms? Is there some all-consuming war that I've missed? They don't breed, so they're not really a race. Where would they come from? Netheril? And they're still around millenia later? As someone has mentioned (I believe in the other thread), 1 or 2, perhaps, but as a character race?QUOTE] Lantan actually or any location with a heavy population of Gondsmen. My warforge fighter started to call his race the ‘Forged….think about it;) …apology for getting off topic. |
| Zanan09-18-07, 07:07 PM | Sorry for the interruption - now back to our regularly scheduled topic: On a sidenote - the roll of the Years has been out long before WoW was even a fond idea in a designers' mind ;). It goes through right tille 1450 or the like. |
| Xaean09-18-07, 07:13 PM | 1) I took it for granted, as I never knew the Realms without it, or more precicly learned to know the Realms after the ToT. There are certainly better novels than the avatar series, as it shows most gods as rather flat characters, too singleminded stereotypes of their portfolios. I prefer Kelemvor as the new god of Death. Illusion and intrigue should have gone to Mask instead of Cyric however. The new Mystra is fairly similar to the old one anyway. 2) Death should be taken serious and now that both Halaster and Khelben are dead, they should remain that way. There is no reason to kill Elminster though. 3) NO, NO, NOOOOO!!!! 4) There were rather many invasions the last couple of years. If there is need for another one, it should be as campaign hook rather than simple background information. 5) No, while such a setting seems interessting enough to me, it doesn't seem like Faerun to me any more. Creating a completly new setting in that style is different matter. 6) I like the idea of devils as corrupters taking on humanoid shapes seducing mortals into Faustian Pacts while demons are more bestial forces of destruction. I absolutly hate the idea of devils being fallen celestials however! I was greatly dissapointed about that in the Fiendish Codex 2 and I don't use that piece of planar history in my campaigns. LE devils as rebels? no... Asmodeus as the primordial tyrant much better! 7) They should not dissapear though taking a less active role makes some sense. 8) No, whatever a trival god is. Different cultures have different religions on this world and I think it's OK if they have them on Faerun. 9) No. 10) Maybe at the beginning simply out of curiosity. That may change in time however. If they removed everything I like, I'd focus my attention on a different setting like Dragonlance. 11) Why not? There is place characters specialized in creating magic items: Nations like Halruaa and Thay rely heavily on magical equipment, they may also create living constructs. The male spellcasters of Rashemen focus on the creation of magic items, so they could be artificers as well. On the contrast some races and cultures favor magic weapons but distrust wizards, they might get along better with artificers. We really have no need to keep everything out of Faerun that was introduced in another setting. I use nobles, mariners and masters from Dragonlance in Faerun and they all work fine, so why not some classes or Races from Eberron. |
| Crazygx3409-19-07, 04:43 AM | Oh yes ... warforged to the Realms, and Lightning Rail, ... make them "Eberron Mk. II". How ingenious ... and what a decent way to make the Realms an obsolete setting. :rolleyes: Good idea Eberron mk. 2 or maybe Forgottens realms evolution or 4 dimension in to the realms with space vessels and light saber:) capnvan: It ok! my english it poor I know! Yes maybe it better the way it is two separate setting, evoluate in different way..Diversity it a great thing... But I will see well a Lantan more futurist (eberon) than the rest of Faerun...Yes it already advenced but maybe a great metropolis city like sharn city with a lot of airship and maybe a railroad why not... submarine maybe... It ok for the nick I was thinking it maybe that meaning something bad... |
| Karsus the Mad09-19-07, 09:37 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? No. Regardless of the skill of an author or designer, they themselves are mortal humans. Noone can possibly understand deities enough to write about them and not make it result in a deity appearing to be a stupid idiot. Write about what their worshippers think, feel, believe, but please stop writing directly about what deities do and think. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? Halaster, no. Blackstaff, yes. Elminster is Elminster. I like the old codger. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? It doesn't destabalize my campaign. Still, some of them should be removed gracefully, or at least portrayed as more than a 1 dimensional blast all. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? No 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. No. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. I couldn't care less. I'm not interested in the specifics of planes, just Toril. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? I don't think they should disappear, but I do think authors and designers should stop focusing so much on something noone can actually comprehend. And stop killing Mystra! That got old after the second time and it was dumb the first time. Stop using it. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? I think the deities should be left completely alone by designers. Here's an idea. Instead of writing about the deities, why not write something along the lines of...their dogma, institutions, clergy, traditions, etc. The sort of stuff a player running a cleric could *actually* use. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No. They just need to detail the parts that have seen virtually no publication and stop rehashing the same areas (albeit with more tidbits). 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? No. But not because they were different, but because I don't play anymore and am more than happy with my small fortune spent on 3.0/3.5 products. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? Warforged-like constructs, yeah. It already does. Artificers? No. Those are Eberron specific, and are part of the settings uniqueness. Let it keep it's own unique aspects. Let the Realms have it's own unique aspects (and keep them as well). |
| ShadezofDis09-19-07, 10:04 AM | No. Regardless of the skill of an author or designer, they themselves are mortal humans. No one can possibly understand deities enough to write about them and not make it result in a deity appearing to be a stupid idiot. Write about what their worshipers think, feel, believe, but please stop writing directly about what deities do and think. I don't think they should disappear, but I do think authors and designers should stop focusing so much on something no one can actually comprehend. And stop killing Mystra! That got old after the second time and it was dumb the first time. Stop using it. I think the deities should be left completely alone by designers. Here's an idea. Instead of writing about the deities, why not write something along the lines of...their dogma, institutions, clergy, traditions, etc. The sort of stuff a player running a cleric could *actually* use. You've summed up my feelings on this nicely KtM. :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-19-07, 05:51 PM | Save the Realms? Well, the Realms are not our property and whether we like it or not, the plan for 4E has been set and will steamroll over us no matter what we say. I agree, but people are still going to discuss it and share their opinions. This forum is one proper place to do that. |
| msatran09-20-07, 12:02 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? No. There's no need to explain mechanics changes by creating stories about it. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? Halaster: No, he's the classic dungeon host. My players will go to Undermountain without him, but it will suck lots. Blackstaff: He died heroically doing what a heroic NPC was born to do, save a city. Returning him to life diminishes that sacrifice forever and makes the character cheap and stupid. Sadly, though he was my FAVORITE Realms NPC, he's dead. Elminster: Elminster is a SAGE. He is meant to be there. I don't like his "Oooh, girls..." attitude, because I consider it disempowering to women, but there are really no problems with this character on a metalevel. Elminster believes that...there is a need for heroes, LIKE THE PC'S. More power to him! 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? I use training rules. Who's going to teach these people how to use their abilities without them? 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? NEVER AGAIN. The Realms should not be bombarded by the FR equivalent of Daleks, Cybermen, Slitheen, Ice Warriors, The Great Intelligence, Sea Devils, and what have you else. I'm tired of reading invasion novels. Perhaps one day, The Realms will invade somewhere else. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. Uh, The Savage Frontier already epitomizes this type of setting, it's a PIECE of the Realms but not all of it. Don't add more of the same to what's already there. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. My thousands of miniatures are now inaccurate? Gee. Thanks Wizards. No, I don't like it. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No! I like that my PC's go to play cards with deities on a semiannual basis. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No. Different cultures=Different Deities. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? God, no. Things happen so fast that people with jobs can't incorporate them into their game with any degree of accuracy. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? I want them to go back to the Second Edition method, where you got a gazetteer like book for every region, organization, etc. The current design is clunky and contains the wrong sort of information. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? I would rather claw my face off with a tweezers, one strip of flesh at a time, than allow an Artificer or Warforged in the Forgotten Realms. |
| johnkretzer09-20-07, 02:05 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? While it introduce and made a god of my least favorite character of all time(Cyric) It wasn't bad in of itself...but it open up the door to something I didn't like. Gods being the main focus of the novels. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? Personaly no...but if the do kill iconic characters like these they should always leave a door open. Even if they never intend top use it so thatDMs who still have a use for them can bring them back. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? No, No. Just because a bad DM can't handle them doesn't mean we who can should have them taken away. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Um depends how it is done... 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. NO...i like a varity to my setting...and while the Realms has some very strong PoL areas it shouldn't be all like that. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. No 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? They should have their presence felt at times but not as much as they do now. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? No because while a god might appear trival to you it might be very center to one of my characters...or my campaign. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? No. The Realms are not stale. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? I will not continue to buy anything if that is the case as my Realms will be sooo completely different it would be useless to me. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? mmm if you ask warforged(with out the Eberron packaging) could exist in the Realms...they are already constructs like this...like the on from the Gondsman PrC. But again this shouldn't be forced it should be up to the various DMs As for artificers...well I don't see them in 4th edition since these people are all about their gear...but just from a 3.5 prespective...I don't see why not. Proably they shouldn't but DMs should feel free to add them if he wants. |
| Fire_Wraith09-20-07, 03:02 AM | [QUOTE=Lykor;13769593] 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Qualified Yes: The Time of Troubles brought about upheaval, yet the Realms retained their intrinsic character. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? Blackstaff's death had meaning, in terms of the storyline, so I'm alright with that. Halaster's death seemed an inexplicable excuse to use Undermountain as a dungeon without his interference. Elminster is too much a part of the Realms to remain gone. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? High level characters are fine. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Major events can occur from time to time, but they should not be so constant that they dominate things. I don't think we're due for anything of this sort anytime soon. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. No. Changing the fundamental character of the entire campaign setting is a very bad idea. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. While the general idea makes sense, it becomes problematic in the execution, given the major histories revolving around some of the specific named devils and demons, and succubi in particular. I will likely ignore this particular change, and continue to use the classic style, and classic demonic/devilish personalities. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? No. The Gods of FR play an important role in its story, and should remain as such. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? There should be no massive upheaval of the pantheons or the gods. A few deaths and replacements, et cetera, is fine, but a complete rewriting to the point of near-unrecognizeability is not. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Absolutely not. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Not if the fundamental character of the Realms is changed, no. I can stomach some changes, but not to the point of killing Mystra, wreaking havoc with mages/magic, altering the landscape (political or otherwise), or anything of that sort. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? I would prefer to keep Eberron elements in Eberron. Eberron is not my style - aren't half-golems enough? Honestly, if someone really wants to bring things like this over, they can just buy the Eberron books, and use the rules from that. Nothing stops them - it's just not canon, and the rest of us don't have to put up with it. |
| Zanan09-20-07, 04:45 AM | I agree, but people are still going to discuss it and share their opinions. This forum is one proper place to do that. Of course they will. It is of much use as ... let's see ... yep: imagine your football/basketball/hockey/name it - team signs up a new, oh-so-terrific player for next season during the summer/winter/you name it break. People start going into overdrive about next season without having him in their team as yet. The excitement pendulum can swing in both directions of course. Who knows what will happen if that player comes onto the field of play (or breaks a leg in pre-season, becoming homesick) or whether Mystra will be back in about a week and a half after Spellplague breaks out? |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-20-07, 01:56 PM | Of course they will. It is of much use as ... let's see ... yep: imagine your football/basketball/hockey/name it - team signs up a new, oh-so-terrific player for next season during the summer/winter/you name it break. People start going into overdrive about next season without having him in their team as yet. *laughs* What would I know about that? I'm not into sports in that way.:) People need to vent about things sometimes. Who really cares if, in the end, it's "of no use"? Besides, Rich Baker just said in the Q&A thread that the designers actually are paying attention to what people are saying. What that will mean in the long run is anyone's guess. |
| Zanan09-20-07, 04:39 PM | *laughs* What would I know about that? I'm not into sports in that way.:) I see. Another one I can try to convert to the Blue side of Glasgow! :cool: Besides, Rich Baker just said in the Q&A thread that the designers actually are paying attention to what people are saying. Is that still an ongoing process? If so, we should combine for some sort of "high opinion ritual" ... before it is too late. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin09-20-07, 08:24 PM | I see. Another one I can try to convert to the Blue side of Glasgow! :cool: :cheer: I can probably be some kind of wishy-washy, fair weather sports fan.:) Is that still an ongoing process? If so, we should combine for some sort of "high opinion ritual" ... before it is too late. Heh! Well, Rich Baker said that the devs were paying attention. :) I presume that still applies. |
| Fire_Wraith09-21-07, 03:17 AM | Heh! Well, Rich Baker said that the devs were paying attention. :) I presume that still applies. Let us certainly hope so - perhaps I have grown too cynical from having worked for the government for far too long, especially of late, and my fear that too many decisions have already been made (and previewed/published) to go back on now. In all honesty, though, so long as the end result does not lose the flavor of the original, I at least would be willing to accept that. To draw an example, even though Mystra dies in the beginning of the Time of Troubles, a new Mystra does arise at the end, and matters are (eventually) set mostly right, or close enough. Some change is good, and keeps things fresh, but too much risks becoming too much for us to take. |
| KismetRose09-21-07, 03:51 AM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? Yup. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? Honestly, I don't care much. I decide who's dead in my game. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? I know a lot of people complain about the high level characters in the Realms, but I hope that WotC doesn't lend too much weight to these complaints. Some people do not understand that you don't have to USE a character in your campaign if you don't want to. These characters dominate the novels because they're NOVELS; the only way they dominate a game is if the DM handles them poorly. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Eh. 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. One of the best things about the Realms, at least as I see it, is that if you go far enough you can find just about anything in it. I would not support any action that would make all of the different regions the same. Now if they wanted to do something like that with one or two regions, that might not be bad. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Not sure what to think of that yet. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? Absolutely not. I know folks like to complain about this aspect of the Realms, too, but fans accept it readily enough and many of us love Faerun for its gods. Let the gods be distant in other settings, but not this one. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? That wouldn't be the end of the world. I've been thinking of doing a bit of that in my game, honestly. I've actually been very tempted to merge Helm, Torm, and Tyr into one deity, or to merge two of them into one. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? Nope. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? It would really depend on the changes made. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? Fit 'em out for the Realms, lore them up, and they'll be good to go. |
| Zanan09-21-07, 04:44 AM | :cheer: I can probably be some kind of wishy-washy, fair weather sports fan.:) Fine! Do you like the devious or the seductive way of being converted into a "Bluenose"? :mage: NB: There's always fair weather ... in front of the PC. :D |
| Bluenose09-21-07, 08:37 AM | Fine! Do you like the devious or the seductive way of being converted into a "Bluenose"? :mage: I'll have to think about that one a bit... seductive it is. |
| Bonzai09-21-07, 05:50 PM | 1) Did you like the Time of Troubles? It was ok, but I miss Myrkul. In my realms, Velrashoon dawned the crawn of Horns, and Myrkul was able to take over him. 2) Do you think Halaster should stay dead? Blackstaff? Elminster (currently KIA/MIA, dead, and MIA respectively)? The answer is yes. I hated how they did Halaster, but it's done. It will only make a bad situation worse by bringing him back. 3) Do you think that having high-level characters destabalizes your campaign? Should those characters be removed? Nope, as DM I am in charge of how they interact with my campaign, if at all. 4) Do you want another invasion of the Realms (such as the Orc Gate Wars, or even by forgotten enemies such as the phaerim)? Not really. What I am hoping for is some stability 5) Should the Realms be converted to the "points of light", where cities (such as Camelot) or city-states (such as Silverymoon) are the only bright spots in a hostile landscape. I hope not. In some areas, sure. But I love that the realms has a variety of different nations and cultures. Politics games can be fun. 6) Do you like the new changes to devils and demons? Devils are now humanoid, while demons are more bestial. Succubi and eyrinees have been merged as devils. Devils have been changed from arising in the primordial tyranny to fallen celestials. This is the first I've heard of it. If it's tastefully done go for it. 7) Do you think that the gods should disappear, or at least take a less active role in events? I think the gods should be very active.... through their mortal agents. 8) Should some non-trivial gods be removed? Should some pantheons be combined? I think this is already done, so we have no choice. But to me, variety is good. 9) Do you think the Realms are stale and need of a massive reboot ala Star Wars: New Jedi Order? The realms are only as stale as you make them. The Campaign I am DMing princibly takes place in one town. I can make that seem fresh, so I have no problems dealing with the whole rest of the realms. 10) Would you continue purchasing Forgotten Realms products if the Realms were significantly different than they are today? Probably not. Dragonlance lost me when they did that. 11) Should the Realms have elements from Eberron added, such as Artificers or Warforged? With Imaskar's return, I wouldn't mind seeing artificers introduced. However Warforged are kind of campaign specific. |