Shouldn’t we have no assassins & I ramble about the Shadow Weave [Archive] - Wizards Community

Shouldn’t we have no assassins & I ramble about the Shadow Weave [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
iwpoe
08-28-05, 10:25 AM As I recall did not Bhaal absorb all assassins in order to empower himself, this was listed as a reason for the loss of the assassin class in the transition between 1st and 2nd edition. Logically this probably should have killed off Artemis Entreri, I suppose Salvatore ignored this for his convenience. Nonetheless any remaining assassins were stripped of their powers upon the death of Bhaal, and any one called that was simply taking it as a job description and not in possession of any special assassin powers, as per the 2nd edition rules, did Wizards ever seek to remedy this conflict or did they just write that out for convenience. On a side thought where the hell in the cannon does the Shadow Weave spring from? My research on old information about Shar seems to indicate that it is entirely a 3rd edition creation. Has any author ever tried to reconcile the sudden existence of the Shadow Weave and its lack of influence on Realms history?
Another Gnome
08-28-05, 11:31 AM The current explanation for surviving assassins is that only Bhaal-worshiping ones were killed. (Entreri for one is an atheist.)

I don't know if Shadow Weave has been referred to in old material, but when it comes to lack of influence it has had on things, 3E sources say Shar has kept it a secret, and only recently knowledge of it has begun (slowly) spreading.
iwpoe
08-28-05, 12:10 PM Ahh yes she sat on it for several thousand years choosing not to reveal it even though it could have given her an advantage then arbitrarily decided to release it in 1372... wonderful plot work. I've improved better and I don't have a staff, and large amounts of money coming to me.

So does any one have a real reason for the Shadow Weave's inclusion in 3rd edition rules? I see no specific reason for it to be. Did a bored intern in 2000 spark the idea "what if we had an anti-weave"?
createvmind
08-28-05, 12:51 PM The Shadow weave was used before 1372, The Shadow Stone by Richard Baker written in 98 tells an interesting tale of Shadow magic affecting faerun from the Shadow Plane. There are other stories as well, but I'll have to dig through books to find them.
iwpoe
08-28-05, 01:03 PM Do the stories refer to a weave of shadow or is it more the feeling of the Shadow Evocation/Shadow Conjuration type magic?
Junon Ghostblade
08-28-05, 01:24 PM The Shadow Weave is just a stupid idea they never should have introduced.

As for the assassin thing, their explainations from rule change to rule change are lame anyway.

Look at the Simbul ("Oh, she was always a Sorceress.") Um, no, she wasn't, since she had access to almost every spell in existance and Sorcerors don't have that kind of spell access.

The fact is, they give off lame excuses to introduce new rules when there was no need to.

I consider 2nd Edition cannon for the most (the Simbul, for instance) part as the realms had the most detailed development and it made sense the most. 3rd and 3.5 contradict each other and the older editions continually. I only consider it cannon when it covers something not already establish.
iwpoe
08-28-05, 01:54 PM A side thought, any one ever recall Drizzt using a ranger spell? He supposedly has access to them.
Junon Ghostblade
08-28-05, 02:06 PM A side thought, any one ever recall Drizzt using a ranger spell? He supposedly has access to them.

I think he used entangle once...
iwpoe
08-28-05, 03:12 PM Has anyone ever defined rules for what Cadderlay does with his goddess song thing or what ever that crap he does is?
warlockco
08-28-05, 03:20 PM Has anyone ever defined rules for what Cadderlay does with his goddess song thing or what ever that crap he does is?

There was a Chosen of Deneir template and 3E stats for Cadderly on the Wizards site, but I am unable to find the page :(
warlockco
08-28-05, 03:24 PM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/deneir

Big Thanks to Kuje for the link. Go to the above link for 3.0E stats for Cadderly and information on the Chosen of Deneir.
Kuje31
08-28-05, 03:39 PM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/deneir

Big Thanks to Kuje for the link. Go to the above link for 3.0E stats for Cadderly and information on the Chosen of Deneir.

I really should add this link to my faq of links. It's asked for a lot. :) Matter of fact, going to do that right now.
iwpoe
08-28-05, 03:47 PM Kara-tur still exist or was it written out?
Kuje31
08-28-05, 03:49 PM Kara-tur still exist or was it written out?

It still exists as does the other continents. Dragon #315 updated some of the material for it but otherwise, there are no plans by WOTC to get to that part of the world at this time. The Player's Guide discusses the new cosmology for the other continents.
iwpoe
08-28-05, 04:22 PM Anyone ever said what Vhaeraun loosing his hand, and Lolth coming out of her cocoon has done for either deity?
Alac Luin
08-28-05, 08:19 PM Entreri was only an assassin by trade, not class, so Bhaal would not have absorbed him.
It's also been 16 years since the ToT, enough time for assassins to re-populate the world.

Drizzt, I believe, has used and animal friendship.
He's not very devout and questions his own faith constantly, so constant use of spells may make him uncomfortable.

I don't care what Cadderlay is "officially" , to me he is a psion (0 levels in cleric), not many agree with me, but heck.
BrianCritchley
08-28-05, 09:04 PM I agree, 16 years is long eneugh for new assasins to crop up. especially as I'm sure cyric has been enchouraging the growth of the trade

Ahh yes she sat on it for several thousand years choosing not to reveal it even though it could have given her an advantage then arbitrarily decided to release it in 1372... wonderful plot work

here's a thought, Shar only perfected it dureing the reign of the original Mystra. however due to Mystra's pwoer and influance introducing it would have been less then useful. so she sits on it.

then Mystra dies and along comes a new Mystra and shar decides to start with the whole shadow weave thing. of course like anyone with half a brain she starts VERY VERY carefully. so as not to alert anyone.

and now, 16 years after the time of troubles it's just coming into public knowledge.
Kuje31
08-28-05, 10:05 PM Anyone ever said what Vhaeraun loosing his hand, and Lolth coming out of her cocoon has done for either deity?

Lloth's we know. It turned her into a greater deity.
Iakhovas
08-28-05, 11:45 PM As I recall did not Bhaal absorb all assassins in order to empower himself, this was listed as a reason for the loss of the assassin class in the transition between 1st and 2nd edition.

Bhaal did not destroy his own followers. It was Bane who absorbed the souls of the assassins before he battled Torm outside of Tantras.
Shemeska the Marauder
08-29-05, 10:54 PM The Shadow weave was used before 1372, The Shadow Stone by Richard Baker written in 98 tells an interesting tale of Shadow magic affecting faerun from the Shadow Plane. There are other stories as well, but I'll have to dig through books to find them.

The book was originally written as a Birthright novel, but very late in the publication process was edited/rewritten in part to fit into FR.
GothicDan
08-29-05, 11:00 PM The book was originally written as a Birthright novel, but very late in the publication process was edited/rewritten in part to fit into FR.

Which explains the transition of the Demiplane of Shadow to the Plane of Shadow in 3E. The Plane of Shadow in 3E is basically the same one in Birthright; it has no basis on 2E.

So, basically, the Shadow Weave and the Plane of Shadow as written should never have been in FR at all.
iwpoe
08-29-05, 11:00 PM I don't care what Cadderlay is "officially" , to me he is a psion (0 levels in cleric), not many agree with me, but heck.
Salvatore dosn't agree with you either. Perhapse the title Cleric Quintet eluded you.
iwpoe
08-29-05, 11:09 PM So, basically, the Shadow Weave and the Plane of Shadow as written should never have been in FR at all.
Well it has alwase been a possible conection to Greyhawk and other worlds.
Alac Luin
08-29-05, 11:14 PM Salvatore dosn't agree with you either. Perhapse the title Cleric Quintet eluded you.

Didn't elude me in the least.
His powers were more in line with 2ed psionics then cleric abilities.
Heck, at the beginning, he couldn't even cast a simple 2nd level cleric spell.
I can go on why I say psion, but it's not worth my effort.

But officially he did have some psionic powers, wild talent or some such thing, at least so I've heard.
I haven't bothered looking for his official write up.
EDIT: OK, I gave in and looked at his write up :)
It does state "psionics" but none are written out. :shrug:
I'm still not buying it ;)
Shemeska the Marauder
08-29-05, 11:16 PM Well it has alwase been a possible conection to Greyhawk and other worlds.

No, that's a 3e invention entirely. Previous to 3e FR was in the same cosmology as Greyhawk, (among many other TSR settings) aka just another world in the same common prime material plane, no shadow plane connection needed since that would be superfluous. No explanation for the retroactive cosmology change was ever given.

I neither accept or respect it, and I wait for 4e if only to retcon the retcon.
iwpoe
08-30-05, 12:18 AM No, that's a 3e invention entirely. Previous to 3e FR was in the same cosmology as Greyhawk, (among many other TSR settings) aka just another world in the same common prime material plane, no shadow plane connection needed since that would be superfluous. No explanation for the retroactive cosmology change was ever given.

I neither accept or respect it, and I wait for 4e if only to retcon the retcon.
Ah perhapse was that to avoid issues with the spell jammer series.
Shemeska the Marauder
08-30-05, 12:37 AM Ah perhapse was that to avoid issues with the spell jammer series.

Couldn't be, they've mentioned Spelljammers in 3e FR.
iwpoe
08-30-05, 12:59 AM Cite the mention
Kuje31
08-30-05, 01:01 AM Cite the mention

FRCS has passages, on page 230 and 231, discussing the moon, the planets, the stars, etc. Rich Baker has also said, more then once, that Spelljammer still exists in some form.
warlockco
08-30-05, 05:52 AM FRCS has passages, on page 230 and 231, discussing the moon, the planets, the stars, etc. Rich Baker has also said, more then once, that Spelljammer still exists in some form.

Didn't The Farthest Reach have a brief mention?
Kuje31
08-30-05, 12:50 PM Didn't The Farthest Reach have a brief mention?

Maybe? I don't recall. :)
shadevarr
08-31-05, 12:13 PM Personally, I see the shadow weave as something that was artifically introduced to Faerun by Shar. I didn't like the Shadow Weave concept for a very long time but once I sat down and rationalized why it existed it made a level of sense. Then again, I totally throw out the FRCS cosmology and stick with 2nd ed. planescape and just move the demiplane of shadow to a real plane connecting the positive and negative energy planes just as it was stated that it was moving towards in PS. Just my 2 cents for the boards.
Telagaunt
08-31-05, 06:10 PM First actual material of a seperate, darker Weave, comes from Richard Baker's The Shadow Stone, which was written during 2nd Edition rules. It was originally a book to be set in another campaign IIRC. Then when 3E hit, WotC decided to go in depth of a new storyline using the Shadow Stone as it's framework and beginning.
VolkorTheRed
09-01-05, 05:44 AM Didn't The Farthest Reach have a brief mention?

Sort of, IIRC, it was mentioned that some elves on Evermeet originated from the void between the stars, or something like that...

There is also mentioning of a Spelljammer in Evermeet, the novel.

So "officially" some of the elves on Evermeet did come from other planets by means of interstellar travel.
Iakhovas
09-01-05, 07:31 PM Elaine Cunningham is a big fan of Spelljamming. If you have not yet done so, read her novel The Radiant Dragon, which describes in some detail the Elvish Imperial Fleet and its relationship to the Island of Evermeet.
Karsus the Mad
09-04-05, 05:56 PM Lord Shadow is mentioned as utilizing the shadow weave during Netheril, but that's also just a 3e story. The only reference in 2e is of Shadows "strange shadow based magic". So the shadow weave isn't a total culprit, as that could/prolly does, mean just 2e shadow based magic. Smells kinda.......shadowy.... if you ask me:rolleyes:
VolkorTheRed
09-05-05, 01:47 AM There are also some other novels, concerning a bard and his adventuring company... One of the novels is called "Crypt of the Shadow king", i believe.

The novels were written in 2E, and the bard in those novels, uses some kind of shadow magic too, IIRC.

I'll look up, who wrote the books, later.
Karsus the Mad
09-05-05, 02:12 AM There are also some other novels, concerning a bard and his adventuring company... One of the novels is called "Crypt of the Shadow king", i believe.

The novels were written in 2E, and the bard in those novels, uses some kind of shadow magic too, IIRC.

I'll look up, who wrote the books, later.

I remember those. Crypt of the Shadow King and Return of the Shadow Mage (the sequal). The "shadow" magic in those weren't shadow weave magic or typical 2e shadow magic, but instead were some kind of "inhereted" bardic magic passed from father to son (Caledon Caldorien to his son Kel). Something about the primordial Shadevari (not Shadovar of Shade enclave). As far as I'm aware, they're the only ones that have it.
VolkorTheRed
09-05-05, 04:45 AM I remember those. Crypt of the Shadow King and Return of the Shadow Mage (the sequal). The "shadow" magic in those weren't shadow weave magic or typical 2e shadow magic, but instead were some kind of "inhereted" bardic magic passed from father to son (Caledon Caldorien to his son Kel). Something about the primordial Shadevari (not Shadovar of Shade enclave). As far as I'm aware, they're the only ones that have it.

Indeed.
They were written by Mark Anthony and part of the Harper series.
I've never have read the second novel, as i couldn't get my hands on that one in the time, but the first one was a good book.

Its possible they meant the Shadovar in that time :D
Karsus the Mad
09-05-05, 07:29 AM Indeed.
They were written by Mark Anthony and part of the Harper series.
I've never have read the second novel, as i couldn't get my hands on that one in the time, but the first one was a good book.

Its possible they meant the Shadovar in that time :D

They were 13 primordials (older even than creation and gods......or something along those lines) that were pure shadow and chaos (typical cosmic bad guys). Even the gods couldn't destroy them, and so Azuth (or Ogma....can't remember which) "banished them beyond the multiverse" or some such. Their goal is to undo creation so that existence returns to its pure chaos origins. It's been years since I've read them, so can't remember much of it. I don't ever recall them being mentioned in anything else, save for some sourcebook....which one currently eludes me as well. Here's a link with some info. (http://www.sorcerers.net/Worlds/FR/45.php)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
iwpoe 08-28-05, 10:25 AM	As I recall did not Bhaal absorb all assassins in order to empower himself, this was listed as a reason for the loss of the assassin class in the transition between 1st and 2nd edition. Logically this probably should have killed off Artemis Entreri, I suppose Salvatore ignored this for his convenience. Nonetheless any remaining assassins were stripped of their powers upon the death of Bhaal, and any one called that was simply taking it as a job description and not in possession of any special assassin powers, as per the 2nd edition rules, did Wizards ever seek to remedy this conflict or did they just write that out for convenience. On a side thought where the hell in the cannon does the Shadow Weave spring from? My research on old information about Shar seems to indicate that it is entirely a 3rd edition creation. Has any author ever tried to reconcile the sudden existence of the Shadow Weave and its lack of influence on Realms history?
Another Gnome 08-28-05, 11:31 AM	The current explanation for surviving assassins is that only Bhaal-worshiping ones were killed. (Entreri for one is an atheist.) I don't know if Shadow Weave has been referred to in old material, but when it comes to lack of influence it has had on things, 3E sources say Shar has kept it a secret, and only recently knowledge of it has begun (slowly) spreading.
iwpoe 08-28-05, 12:10 PM	Ahh yes she sat on it for several thousand years choosing not to reveal it even though it could have given her an advantage then arbitrarily decided to release it in 1372... wonderful plot work. I've improved better and I don't have a staff, and large amounts of money coming to me. So does any one have a real reason for the Shadow Weave's inclusion in 3rd edition rules? I see no specific reason for it to be. Did a bored intern in 2000 spark the idea "what if we had an anti-weave"?
createvmind 08-28-05, 12:51 PM	The Shadow weave was used before 1372, The Shadow Stone by Richard Baker written in 98 tells an interesting tale of Shadow magic affecting faerun from the Shadow Plane. There are other stories as well, but I'll have to dig through books to find them.
iwpoe 08-28-05, 01:03 PM	Do the stories refer to a weave of shadow or is it more the feeling of the Shadow Evocation/Shadow Conjuration type magic?
Junon Ghostblade 08-28-05, 01:24 PM	The Shadow Weave is just a stupid idea they never should have introduced. As for the assassin thing, their explainations from rule change to rule change are lame anyway. Look at the Simbul ("Oh, she was always a Sorceress.") Um, no, she wasn't, since she had access to almost every spell in existance and Sorcerors don't have that kind of spell access. The fact is, they give off lame excuses to introduce new rules when there was no need to. I consider 2nd Edition cannon for the most (the Simbul, for instance) part as the realms had the most detailed development and it made sense the most. 3rd and 3.5 contradict each other and the older editions continually. I only consider it cannon when it covers something not already establish.
iwpoe 08-28-05, 01:54 PM	A side thought, any one ever recall Drizzt using a ranger spell? He supposedly has access to them.
Junon Ghostblade 08-28-05, 02:06 PM	A side thought, any one ever recall Drizzt using a ranger spell? He supposedly has access to them. I think he used entangle once...
iwpoe 08-28-05, 03:12 PM	Has anyone ever defined rules for what Cadderlay does with his goddess song thing or what ever that crap he does is?
warlockco 08-28-05, 03:20 PM	Has anyone ever defined rules for what Cadderlay does with his goddess song thing or what ever that crap he does is? There was a Chosen of Deneir template and 3E stats for Cadderly on the Wizards site, but I am unable to find the page :(
warlockco 08-28-05, 03:24 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/deneir Big Thanks to Kuje for the link. Go to the above link for 3.0E stats for Cadderly and information on the Chosen of Deneir.
Kuje31 08-28-05, 03:39 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/deneir Big Thanks to Kuje for the link. Go to the above link for 3.0E stats for Cadderly and information on the Chosen of Deneir. I really should add this link to my faq of links. It's asked for a lot. :) Matter of fact, going to do that right now.
iwpoe 08-28-05, 03:47 PM	Kara-tur still exist or was it written out?
Kuje31 08-28-05, 03:49 PM	Kara-tur still exist or was it written out? It still exists as does the other continents. Dragon #315 updated some of the material for it but otherwise, there are no plans by WOTC to get to that part of the world at this time. The Player's Guide discusses the new cosmology for the other continents.
iwpoe 08-28-05, 04:22 PM	Anyone ever said what Vhaeraun loosing his hand, and Lolth coming out of her cocoon has done for either deity?
Alac Luin 08-28-05, 08:19 PM	Entreri was only an assassin by trade, not class, so Bhaal would not have absorbed him. It's also been 16 years since the ToT, enough time for assassins to re-populate the world. Drizzt, I believe, has used and animal friendship. He's not very devout and questions his own faith constantly, so constant use of spells may make him uncomfortable. I don't care what Cadderlay is "officially" , to me he is a psion (0 levels in cleric), not many agree with me, but heck.
BrianCritchley 08-28-05, 09:04 PM	I agree, 16 years is long eneugh for new assasins to crop up. especially as I'm sure cyric has been enchouraging the growth of the trade Ahh yes she sat on it for several thousand years choosing not to reveal it even though it could have given her an advantage then arbitrarily decided to release it in 1372... wonderful plot work here's a thought, Shar only perfected it dureing the reign of the original Mystra. however due to Mystra's pwoer and influance introducing it would have been less then useful. so she sits on it. then Mystra dies and along comes a new Mystra and shar decides to start with the whole shadow weave thing. of course like anyone with half a brain she starts VERY VERY carefully. so as not to alert anyone. and now, 16 years after the time of troubles it's just coming into public knowledge.
Kuje31 08-28-05, 10:05 PM	Anyone ever said what Vhaeraun loosing his hand, and Lolth coming out of her cocoon has done for either deity? Lloth's we know. It turned her into a greater deity.
Iakhovas 08-28-05, 11:45 PM	As I recall did not Bhaal absorb all assassins in order to empower himself, this was listed as a reason for the loss of the assassin class in the transition between 1st and 2nd edition. Bhaal did not destroy his own followers. It was Bane who absorbed the souls of the assassins before he battled Torm outside of Tantras.
Shemeska the Marauder 08-29-05, 10:54 PM	The Shadow weave was used before 1372, The Shadow Stone by Richard Baker written in 98 tells an interesting tale of Shadow magic affecting faerun from the Shadow Plane. There are other stories as well, but I'll have to dig through books to find them. The book was originally written as a Birthright novel, but very late in the publication process was edited/rewritten in part to fit into FR.
GothicDan 08-29-05, 11:00 PM	The book was originally written as a Birthright novel, but very late in the publication process was edited/rewritten in part to fit into FR. Which explains the transition of the Demiplane of Shadow to the Plane of Shadow in 3E. The Plane of Shadow in 3E is basically the same one in Birthright; it has no basis on 2E. So, basically, the Shadow Weave and the Plane of Shadow as written should never have been in FR at all.
iwpoe 08-29-05, 11:00 PM	I don't care what Cadderlay is "officially" , to me he is a psion (0 levels in cleric), not many agree with me, but heck. Salvatore dosn't agree with you either. Perhapse the title Cleric Quintet eluded you.
iwpoe 08-29-05, 11:09 PM	So, basically, the Shadow Weave and the Plane of Shadow as written should never have been in FR at all. Well it has alwase been a possible conection to Greyhawk and other worlds.
Alac Luin 08-29-05, 11:14 PM	Salvatore dosn't agree with you either. Perhapse the title Cleric Quintet eluded you. Didn't elude me in the least. His powers were more in line with 2ed psionics then cleric abilities. Heck, at the beginning, he couldn't even cast a simple 2nd level cleric spell. I can go on why I say psion, but it's not worth my effort. But officially he did have some psionic powers, wild talent or some such thing, at least so I've heard. I haven't bothered looking for his official write up. EDIT: OK, I gave in and looked at his write up :) It does state "psionics" but none are written out. :shrug: I'm still not buying it ;)
Shemeska the Marauder 08-29-05, 11:16 PM	Well it has alwase been a possible conection to Greyhawk and other worlds. No, that's a 3e invention entirely. Previous to 3e FR was in the same cosmology as Greyhawk, (among many other TSR settings) aka just another world in the same common prime material plane, no shadow plane connection needed since that would be superfluous. No explanation for the retroactive cosmology change was ever given. I neither accept or respect it, and I wait for 4e if only to retcon the retcon.
iwpoe 08-30-05, 12:18 AM	No, that's a 3e invention entirely. Previous to 3e FR was in the same cosmology as Greyhawk, (among many other TSR settings) aka just another world in the same common prime material plane, no shadow plane connection needed since that would be superfluous. No explanation for the retroactive cosmology change was ever given. I neither accept or respect it, and I wait for 4e if only to retcon the retcon. Ah perhapse was that to avoid issues with the spell jammer series.
Shemeska the Marauder 08-30-05, 12:37 AM	Ah perhapse was that to avoid issues with the spell jammer series. Couldn't be, they've mentioned Spelljammers in 3e FR.
iwpoe 08-30-05, 12:59 AM	Cite the mention
Kuje31 08-30-05, 01:01 AM	Cite the mention FRCS has passages, on page 230 and 231, discussing the moon, the planets, the stars, etc. Rich Baker has also said, more then once, that Spelljammer still exists in some form.
warlockco 08-30-05, 05:52 AM	FRCS has passages, on page 230 and 231, discussing the moon, the planets, the stars, etc. Rich Baker has also said, more then once, that Spelljammer still exists in some form. Didn't The Farthest Reach have a brief mention?
Kuje31 08-30-05, 12:50 PM	Didn't The Farthest Reach have a brief mention? Maybe? I don't recall. :)
shadevarr 08-31-05, 12:13 PM	Personally, I see the shadow weave as something that was artifically introduced to Faerun by Shar. I didn't like the Shadow Weave concept for a very long time but once I sat down and rationalized why it existed it made a level of sense. Then again, I totally throw out the FRCS cosmology and stick with 2nd ed. planescape and just move the demiplane of shadow to a real plane connecting the positive and negative energy planes just as it was stated that it was moving towards in PS. Just my 2 cents for the boards.
Telagaunt 08-31-05, 06:10 PM	First actual material of a seperate, darker Weave, comes from Richard Baker's The Shadow Stone, which was written during 2nd Edition rules. It was originally a book to be set in another campaign IIRC. Then when 3E hit, WotC decided to go in depth of a new storyline using the Shadow Stone as it's framework and beginning.
VolkorTheRed 09-01-05, 05:44 AM	Didn't The Farthest Reach have a brief mention? Sort of, IIRC, it was mentioned that some elves on Evermeet originated from the void between the stars, or something like that... There is also mentioning of a Spelljammer in Evermeet, the novel. So "officially" some of the elves on Evermeet did come from other planets by means of interstellar travel.
Iakhovas 09-01-05, 07:31 PM	Elaine Cunningham is a big fan of Spelljamming. If you have not yet done so, read her novel The Radiant Dragon, which describes in some detail the Elvish Imperial Fleet and its relationship to the Island of Evermeet.
Karsus the Mad 09-04-05, 05:56 PM	Lord Shadow is mentioned as utilizing the shadow weave during Netheril, but that's also just a 3e story. The only reference in 2e is of Shadows "strange shadow based magic". So the shadow weave isn't a total culprit, as that could/prolly does, mean just 2e shadow based magic. Smells kinda.......shadowy.... if you ask me:rolleyes:
VolkorTheRed 09-05-05, 01:47 AM	There are also some other novels, concerning a bard and his adventuring company... One of the novels is called "Crypt of the Shadow king", i believe. The novels were written in 2E, and the bard in those novels, uses some kind of shadow magic too, IIRC. I'll look up, who wrote the books, later.
Karsus the Mad 09-05-05, 02:12 AM	There are also some other novels, concerning a bard and his adventuring company... One of the novels is called "Crypt of the Shadow king", i believe. The novels were written in 2E, and the bard in those novels, uses some kind of shadow magic too, IIRC. I'll look up, who wrote the books, later. I remember those. Crypt of the Shadow King and Return of the Shadow Mage (the sequal). The "shadow" magic in those weren't shadow weave magic or typical 2e shadow magic, but instead were some kind of "inhereted" bardic magic passed from father to son (Caledon Caldorien to his son Kel). Something about the primordial Shadevari (not Shadovar of Shade enclave). As far as I'm aware, they're the only ones that have it.
VolkorTheRed 09-05-05, 04:45 AM	I remember those. Crypt of the Shadow King and Return of the Shadow Mage (the sequal). The "shadow" magic in those weren't shadow weave magic or typical 2e shadow magic, but instead were some kind of "inhereted" bardic magic passed from father to son (Caledon Caldorien to his son Kel). Something about the primordial Shadevari (not Shadovar of Shade enclave). As far as I'm aware, they're the only ones that have it. Indeed. They were written by Mark Anthony and part of the Harper series. I've never have read the second novel, as i couldn't get my hands on that one in the time, but the first one was a good book. Its possible they meant the Shadovar in that time :D
Karsus the Mad 09-05-05, 07:29 AM	Indeed. They were written by Mark Anthony and part of the Harper series. I've never have read the second novel, as i couldn't get my hands on that one in the time, but the first one was a good book. Its possible they meant the Shadovar in that time :D They were 13 primordials (older even than creation and gods......or something along those lines) that were pure shadow and chaos (typical cosmic bad guys). Even the gods couldn't destroy them, and so Azuth (or Ogma....can't remember which) "banished them beyond the multiverse" or some such. Their goal is to undo creation so that existence returns to its pure chaos origins. It's been years since I've read them, so can't remember much of it. I don't ever recall them being mentioned in anything else, save for some sourcebook....which one currently eludes me as well. Here's a link with some info. (http://www.sorcerers.net/Worlds/FR/45.php)