So, I am still not buying 4ED [Archive] - Wizards Community

So, I am still not buying 4ED [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Beaver
08-22-07, 06:57 PM Yea, my other thread got shut down. No reason was given, and I was not messaged as to what I did wrong.

So, obviously I angered somebody. But it does not change the fact that I am not buying 4ED because it is Rediculous ;)

And in case Moderators get upset, this does indeed strongly involve forgotten realms, as everyone who posts here OBVIOUSLY players forgotten realms.
Fabius Maximus
08-22-07, 08:04 PM You obviously missed the "All 4th ed. issues are to be discussed on the 4th ed. boards." announcment...
Straploknight
08-23-07, 12:43 AM mod smack in 5...4...3...2...1...
Beaver
08-23-07, 01:11 AM Actually, about half the topics on Forgotten Realms general strongly involves 4th edition.

So, why are they not shut down as well?
Panurg
08-23-07, 04:58 AM There is strange kind of policy involved concerning 4ed as a theme for a threat.
Criticism is not taken lightly by the watchdogs. ;)
Saying this, the "all 4ed is discussed in a special area" announcement is ridiculous in it self. The only reason for this I can imagine is to keep critics at bay. But I can't understand why?
I mean it's a fact that the whole 4ed is only about fooling players some of whom are customers for 15 or more years. Why not talk about this?
Fabius Maximus
08-23-07, 06:19 AM It's neither strange nor ridiculous. It keeps the regular boards clean. Simple, really.
421
08-23-07, 09:30 AM Sure, yet I for one almost never look at the other forums, and even the FR 4E thread isn't quite FR specific.

I could make sense to have one "home" thread to discuss it in the FR boards, as long as it focus on how it will affect the setting, and not a general discussion on 4E.
PriestOfLathander
08-23-07, 09:57 AM Could just wait until someone scans it into a PDF, and download it. :D
Panurg
08-23-07, 10:08 AM It's neither strange nor ridiculous. It keeps the regular boards clean. Simple, really.

Clean?
Clean of what? Complaints?
The problem is, that there are many FR specific problems regarding 4ed. And in my opinion one should be able to discuss them on the FR boards.
And I second what 421 mentioned the FR 4ed isn't very FR specific, and for my taste doesn't contain enough impulses for a critical approach at this whole situation. And as I mentioned in a thread that has been closed minutes after I wrote it, I think it's strange and ridiculous to destroy the good concept of 3.5 ed (which by the way existed very shortly) for obviously no other reason than to make more money.
Perhaps it's a failure in my thinking about this, but I think people around the world have the capacity to learn those little rules about skills, grappling and whatever is too complicated or the reason for a new ed.
And especially concerning the realms: I'm a big fan and though I started with 2ed loved most of the products of 3.5, and bought many.
I spent dozens of hours converting old adventures and iconic characters from 2ed to 3.5 and I stay with those rules.
They are as complex as needed to cover many manuvers and tactics and as simple as good for a quick round.
My problem is not in particular with the change of rules, but with the change of product quality which made it self visible with the last FR products starting with Mysteries of the Moonsea.
NoxLupus
08-23-07, 11:09 AM Yea, my other thread got shut down. No reason was given, and I was not messaged as to what I did wrong.

So, obviously I angered somebody. But it does not change the fact that I am not buying 4ED because it is Rediculous ;)

And in case Moderators get upset, this does indeed strongly involve forgotten realms, as everyone who posts here OBVIOUSLY players forgotten realms.

Preach on my brother!! seriously though, they gave 2nd ed a good decade to run, I can only thing this has to do with a bunch of Habsro execs going "Duh, you dorks need to put something completely new out now..."

Sure 3rd ed has its bugs and awkward rules, etc, but so will 4th ed and every other system yet to be conceived.
Straploknight
08-23-07, 11:47 AM Dang, my ability to prognosticate is a bit off, I'll have to readjust

mod smack in .9999...9998....9997.....9996......99995 .......99994........
Fabius Maximus
08-23-07, 11:49 AM Clean?
Clean of what? Complaints?
The problem is, that there are many FR specific problems regarding 4ed. And in my opinion one should be able to discuss them on the FR boards.
Clean from discussions about 4ed. Why spread them about the whole boards, when you can concentrate them all into one sub-board? And other issues aren't pushed back on subsequent pages.
Crust
08-23-07, 02:21 PM I'm totally on board for 4E. The technological aspect of the shift will be incredible. I teach in the virtual classroom, and I see firsthand how the Internet and advances in technology allow for greater and easier communication. I understand the gripes about having to buy books all over again, but the time for change is now. The technology is here, and WotC isn't going to wait around.

Not only that, but the rules need overhauled. Now.
MarkusTay63
08-23-07, 03:47 PM You're post wasn't FR-specific, that's why.

The thread about the Spellplague is FR-specific, and so are the ones about the 'Living' Campaigns. Although 4e, they impact the Realms.

You're not buying the 4e Core books does NOT impact the Realms AT ALL.

It still pis$ed me off that they closed it, though, I had a really nice, long post to explain to you why this is a good thing, but I'm getting tired of defending it to the naysayers.

And don't tell me about the costs - I have 99.99% of EVERY produst TSR ever put out, and nearly every D&D product put out by Wizards (and quite a few non-D&D products as well).

If what they do is worth buying, then buy it. If its not, stick with 3e. No-one is forcing anyone to switch, and the lore is still valid no matter what edition you're in.

I'm done.
NoxLupus
08-23-07, 05:30 PM I'm totally on board for 4E. The technological aspect of the shift will be incredible. I teach in the virtual classroom, and I see firsthand how the Internet and advances in technology allow for greater and easier communication. I understand the gripes about having to buy books all over again, but the time for change is now. The technology is here, and WotC isn't going to wait around.

Not only that, but the rules need overhauled. Now.

...I'll be interested to see if your opinion will hold, about "progress" and "advances" in D&D, when they put out 5th ed in 2009... or whatever other ridiculously early time-horizon they WILL put on the next money making venture Hasbro forces them to engage in.

While I fully understand and respect the need, in a capitalistic society like ours, for corporations to make a profit on what they produce, this seems rather rushed. I say this in specific reference to the fact that WoTC has been working on 4th Ed since '04. That to me says they gave up on 3rd ed, and subsequently 3.5 before it truly had a chance to get off the ground. Once things were set in motion, and money spent on said things, it became an inexorable process that they felt the need to keep hidden from those gamers (ie us) who were pouring money into 3.5. This is where I find what WoTC has done (and more specifically Hasbro) dishonest and not in the spirit of Dungeons and Dragons, which to me has always been to create a gaming system that would not only entertain its following, but endure through decades with minimal changes to the core systems that are developed to exact those ends. Dungeons and Dragons has been an ever-evolving product, expanding and innovating in ways that excite and renew players interest as time goes on. However, I feel that the changes presented so far that will be 4th ed could have been easily integrated into 3.5 (a 3.75 if you will), or as a rules supplement like Unearthed Arcana.

Thats my peace on this subject, in as eloquent a form as I can put it, now that I've had time to think these revelations over.

I still stand-by my previous posts and supositions about 4th ed and even when they discontinue 3.5 I will continue to play and expand it by the rules WotC has given us to do so, and I encourage all other GM's and players to consider these things and do what they feel they will enjoy the most.
Eli_the_Tanner
08-24-07, 12:06 AM Does your abstinence from 4ed products include coming Forgotten realms books or is it merely restricted to the core rulebooks?
ORC_Paradox
08-24-07, 12:48 AM Yes, all 4e posts go on the 4e board.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beaver 08-22-07, 06:57 PM	Yea, my other thread got shut down. No reason was given, and I was not messaged as to what I did wrong. So, obviously I angered somebody. But it does not change the fact that I am not buying 4ED because it is Rediculous ;) And in case Moderators get upset, this does indeed strongly involve forgotten realms, as everyone who posts here OBVIOUSLY players forgotten realms.
Fabius Maximus 08-22-07, 08:04 PM	You obviously missed the "All 4th ed. issues are to be discussed on the 4th ed. boards." announcment...
Straploknight 08-23-07, 12:43 AM	mod smack in 5...4...3...2...1...
Beaver 08-23-07, 01:11 AM	Actually, about half the topics on Forgotten Realms general strongly involves 4th edition. So, why are they not shut down as well?
Panurg 08-23-07, 04:58 AM	There is strange kind of policy involved concerning 4ed as a theme for a threat. Criticism is not taken lightly by the watchdogs. ;) Saying this, the "all 4ed is discussed in a special area" announcement is ridiculous in it self. The only reason for this I can imagine is to keep critics at bay. But I can't understand why? I mean it's a fact that the whole 4ed is only about fooling players some of whom are customers for 15 or more years. Why not talk about this?
Fabius Maximus 08-23-07, 06:19 AM	It's neither strange nor ridiculous. It keeps the regular boards clean. Simple, really.
421 08-23-07, 09:30 AM	Sure, yet I for one almost never look at the other forums, and even the FR 4E thread isn't quite FR specific. I could make sense to have one "home" thread to discuss it in the FR boards, as long as it focus on how it will affect the setting, and not a general discussion on 4E.
PriestOfLathander 08-23-07, 09:57 AM	Could just wait until someone scans it into a PDF, and download it. :D
Panurg 08-23-07, 10:08 AM	It's neither strange nor ridiculous. It keeps the regular boards clean. Simple, really. Clean? Clean of what? Complaints? The problem is, that there are many FR specific problems regarding 4ed. And in my opinion one should be able to discuss them on the FR boards. And I second what 421 mentioned the FR 4ed isn't very FR specific, and for my taste doesn't contain enough impulses for a critical approach at this whole situation. And as I mentioned in a thread that has been closed minutes after I wrote it, I think it's strange and ridiculous to destroy the good concept of 3.5 ed (which by the way existed very shortly) for obviously no other reason than to make more money. Perhaps it's a failure in my thinking about this, but I think people around the world have the capacity to learn those little rules about skills, grappling and whatever is too complicated or the reason for a new ed. And especially concerning the realms: I'm a big fan and though I started with 2ed loved most of the products of 3.5, and bought many. I spent dozens of hours converting old adventures and iconic characters from 2ed to 3.5 and I stay with those rules. They are as complex as needed to cover many manuvers and tactics and as simple as good for a quick round. My problem is not in particular with the change of rules, but with the change of product quality which made it self visible with the last FR products starting with Mysteries of the Moonsea.
NoxLupus 08-23-07, 11:09 AM	Yea, my other thread got shut down. No reason was given, and I was not messaged as to what I did wrong. So, obviously I angered somebody. But it does not change the fact that I am not buying 4ED because it is Rediculous ;) And in case Moderators get upset, this does indeed strongly involve forgotten realms, as everyone who posts here OBVIOUSLY players forgotten realms. Preach on my brother!! seriously though, they gave 2nd ed a good decade to run, I can only thing this has to do with a bunch of Habsro execs going "Duh, you dorks need to put something completely new out now..." Sure 3rd ed has its bugs and awkward rules, etc, but so will 4th ed and every other system yet to be conceived.
Straploknight 08-23-07, 11:47 AM	Dang, my ability to prognosticate is a bit off, I'll have to readjust mod smack in .9999...9998....9997.....9996......99995 .......99994........
Fabius Maximus 08-23-07, 11:49 AM	Clean? Clean of what? Complaints? The problem is, that there are many FR specific problems regarding 4ed. And in my opinion one should be able to discuss them on the FR boards. Clean from discussions about 4ed. Why spread them about the whole boards, when you can concentrate them all into one sub-board? And other issues aren't pushed back on subsequent pages.
Crust 08-23-07, 02:21 PM	I'm totally on board for 4E. The technological aspect of the shift will be incredible. I teach in the virtual classroom, and I see firsthand how the Internet and advances in technology allow for greater and easier communication. I understand the gripes about having to buy books all over again, but the time for change is now. The technology is here, and WotC isn't going to wait around. Not only that, but the rules need overhauled. Now.
MarkusTay63 08-23-07, 03:47 PM	You're post wasn't FR-specific, that's why. The thread about the Spellplague is FR-specific, and so are the ones about the 'Living' Campaigns. Although 4e, they impact the Realms. You're not buying the 4e Core books does NOT impact the Realms AT ALL. It still pis$ed me off that they closed it, though, I had a really nice, long post to explain to you why this is a good thing, but I'm getting tired of defending it to the naysayers. And don't tell me about the costs - I have 99.99% of EVERY produst TSR ever put out, and nearly every D&D product put out by Wizards (and quite a few non-D&D products as well). If what they do is worth buying, then buy it. If its not, stick with 3e. No-one is forcing anyone to switch, and the lore is still valid no matter what edition you're in. I'm done.
NoxLupus 08-23-07, 05:30 PM	I'm totally on board for 4E. The technological aspect of the shift will be incredible. I teach in the virtual classroom, and I see firsthand how the Internet and advances in technology allow for greater and easier communication. I understand the gripes about having to buy books all over again, but the time for change is now. The technology is here, and WotC isn't going to wait around. Not only that, but the rules need overhauled. Now. ...I'll be interested to see if your opinion will hold, about "progress" and "advances" in D&D, when they put out 5th ed in 2009... or whatever other ridiculously early time-horizon they WILL put on the next money making venture Hasbro forces them to engage in. While I fully understand and respect the need, in a capitalistic society like ours, for corporations to make a profit on what they produce, this seems rather rushed. I say this in specific reference to the fact that WoTC has been working on 4th Ed since '04. That to me says they gave up on 3rd ed, and subsequently 3.5 before it truly had a chance to get off the ground. Once things were set in motion, and money spent on said things, it became an inexorable process that they felt the need to keep hidden from those gamers (ie us) who were pouring money into 3.5. This is where I find what WoTC has done (and more specifically Hasbro) dishonest and not in the spirit of Dungeons and Dragons, which to me has always been to create a gaming system that would not only entertain its following, but endure through decades with minimal changes to the core systems that are developed to exact those ends. Dungeons and Dragons has been an ever-evolving product, expanding and innovating in ways that excite and renew players interest as time goes on. However, I feel that the changes presented so far that will be 4th ed could have been easily integrated into 3.5 (a 3.75 if you will), or as a rules supplement like Unearthed Arcana. Thats my peace on this subject, in as eloquent a form as I can put it, now that I've had time to think these revelations over. I still stand-by my previous posts and supositions about 4th ed and even when they discontinue 3.5 I will continue to play and expand it by the rules WotC has given us to do so, and I encourage all other GM's and players to consider these things and do what they feel they will enjoy the most.
Eli_the_Tanner 08-24-07, 12:06 AM	Does your abstinence from 4ed products include coming Forgotten realms books or is it merely restricted to the core rulebooks?
ORC_Paradox 08-24-07, 12:48 AM	Yes, all 4e posts go on the 4e board.