Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meldread 12-29-06, 11:49 PM	I've posted a semi-related thread about this in the past, and two other threads (directly related) in other forums, but I am in need of a much broader sense of help. I am pushing the FR Cannon forward into the future by at least 30 years, although I would prefer to go forward as much as 50 (but no more than 75). My main focus at the moment is the areas between the Anauroch Desert to the Endless Wastes south to the Dragonmere and Mulhorand. In this time period Sembia will have grown to encompass the lands from the Anauroch Desert to modern day Damara, and Thay will have grown to encompass everything else (Aglarond, Thesk, Rashemen, Narfell, Impiltur, Damara, etc.). The main focus of the campaign will be on the Empire of Sembia so that is where I have focused much of my energy thus far... I started by figuring out where I wanted to take the Realms, and then I began charting a course of how to get there by using the timeline. I began with 1373 DR (Year of Rogue Dragons) and began working forward from there - I am currently on 1390 (Year of the Walking Man). During this period Sembia has managed to take control of much of its empire, Thay has taken Rashemen and Aglarond and there was a huge Godswar... there are now 24 deities left in the Realms. I killed off most of the deities because I wanted to spend time on each of the deities making them unique and interesting, get rid of the paladin and blackguard classes, and create PrC's for each of the deities - as well as specialty priests, while creating interesting and detailed information on their churches. I accomplished this by allowing Lathander to perform Dawn Cataclysm redux (which he was tricked by Shar into performing - though he never knew it) called the Deliverance. (Hinted at in Faiths and Pantheons.) There was also the birth of a new deity (kinda). Everything is a work in progress and open to change. I am not really interested in people's opinions such as "You've killed the Realms" or anything like that, I'm in need of filling in plot holes. I want to tie up all the loose ends in the regions I am focusing on, bringing them to their ultimate conclusions before locking myself into something solid. I'm leaning toward a gritty / dark Faerun where even the generally considered "good guys" aren't all that good. (I'm axing the alignment system.) The Elves and Dwarves have mostly migrated toward the High Forest, Silverymoon and the Silver Marches - having been pushed close to extinction. The Gnomes are holding out on Lantan, content to be cut off from the rest of the world. Human and monstrous races dominate 90% of Faerun. 1. In 1373 DR a Tear of Selune crashes into Toril. It is said it is one of the "larger" tears, and I have read that some of these tears have atmospheres that are breathable. Now, I will point to our moon - it has only a very thin atmosphere (barely existent at all) and note that it contains roughly the same surface area of North and South America combined. I will now point out a small asteroid roughly 300 feet in size exploded about 12 miles ABOVE the ground in a desolate valley of the Tunguska River in central Siberia on the morning of June 30, 1908. The blast had the force of 12 million tons of TNT, which is 800 times more powerful than the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima. It destroyed a forest the size of Rhode Island and threw a man from his chair at a trading post roughly 70 miles away. Now, exactly how large was this tear? If it was one of the "larger" tears as stated - it was larger than our moon. There would be no more Toril. I'm going to guess it was roughly a mile in size (I am being overly generous), and since it moved toward Toril slowly the speed at which it arrived would have blunted its impact (maybe). Even so, and even if it shattered into millions of little fragments, it would have been the equivalent of hitting Toril with buckshot - it may actually be worse than if it just crashed in head on. Obviously, some things on Toril got trashed as a result. There had to be some devastation. I wanted to land a sizeable chunk into Waterdeep, but due to the fact that it happened in 1373 DR and certain events take place in Waterdeep in 1374... I couldn't do that. Anyone know what damage this thing caused or have a place they dislike on Faerun that they want to take out (or several places)? :P 2. I know that Miklos Selkirk, Kendrick the Tall's (Overmaster of Sembia) Eldest son is dead. I was doing some research on him to find out how I could kill him when I found out someone had already done me the favor. Does anyone know what year this took place in, how it happened, and what implications it had for the Silver Ravens Mercenary Company and Sembia as a whole? 3. There are many plot hooks I have to work with in Thay. I'm unsure if Homen Odesseiron (Tharchion of Surthay) has been persuaded to assault Rashemen by Tharchion Kren of Gauros. I'm looking at the Unapproachable East and it doesn't give a date for any of this... I'm thinking about having it happen in 1381 DR. If something has happened before then, please let me know. 4. How did the thing with Sammaster and the Rogue Dragons turn out? What got destroyed? 5. Side note, I really hate the whole thing with Sarya Dlardrageth and the Demonfey. I don't really read the novels, I realize it was added into cannon because of them, but I mean - come on... an army of demons? Even in a high magic setting that's stretching it. Does anyone have any information on what exactly was destroyed? 6. The Elves seem to be returning to Faerun, which is fine with me, but my only concern is how big is their force in Myth Drannor? It seems that this would cause some major problems in the Dalelands and won't make Sembia happy either considering that they dislike Elves. I read something about 10,000 Elven Crusaders? I'm unsure if there are that many left alive and if they are currently hanging out in or around Myth Drannor. I intend to force the Elves out of that region, and turn Myth Drannor into Sembia's new Capital. (Salt to the wound and all that...) There are more, lots more, but what I need most of all at the moment is filling in the plot holes in the timeline. What other major events happened that are not listed? I'm cutting cannon material off at 1375 DR as everything after that becomes optional for me to add in if it fits. In any case, feel free to plug in some interesting events in the timeline. If I think they are good and will add to the flavor of my Faerun I'll toss them in and make it "official". I will probably think of more questions / problems at a later date. 1373 Rogue Dragons * The lich Sammaster incites the wyrms of Faerun into a mindless rampage. * One of the larger rocks comprising the Tears of Selune inexplicably moves much closer to Toril, causing a solar eclipse over much of Faerun. This rogue tear remained motionless over Toril for nearly a day before plummeting again. As it entered the atmosphere, Selune’s tear separated into five large chunks, each cutting a flaming path through the sky. Those chunks then broke apart into thousands of smaller pieces. This event, witnessed by tens of thousands, was seen as an ill omen by many. * Yuan-ti purebloods begin infiltrating St. Uzurr, in an effort to assassinate its Abbot. (Lapaliiya) * Under Kaanyr Vhok the Sceptered One, the Scoured Legion battles the drow of Menzoberranzan. (Northdark) * Merchants of the Shining Lands travel as far as Waterdeep, the Utter East, Zakhara, and Maztica to procure wares for other markets. (The Shining Lands) 1374 Lightning Storms * The daemonfey Sarya Dlardrageth frees the fey'ri imprisoned within the Nameless Dungeon. Her army of orcs, ogres, and fey'ri is defeated by the elves of the High Forest and forces from Evereska, Evermeet, and Silverymoon. * The regency of Queen Sambryl ends, as King Imbrar II reaches age 16 and assumes the throne of Impiltur. * With the aid of the archdevil Malkizid, House Dlardrageth raised an army of demons, devils, and yugoloths beneath the bowls of fabled Cormanthor. The demonspawn elves are ultimately defeated, resulting in the reclamation of Myth Drannor and the Elven Court, and the coronation of Ilsevele Miritar as coronal of Cormanthor. * Sunlord Daelegoth Orndeir, leader of the Risen Sun heresy, calls his faithful to Elversult to witness the first sign of Amaunator's ascension. Beginning on Midsummer day, the sun never sets over Elversult. Word spreads quickly across Faerūn, and would-be converts begin showing up at the doors of the Morninglord's temples, seeking to convert to the "church of Amaunator". * Hillsfar is assaulted by Sarya Dlardrageth and her army of Demons, Yuggoloths and Devils, forcing Maalthiir to flee Hillsfar. Zhentil Keep then strikes at the city, repelling Sarya and her forces, and in turn captures the city. Mordak Brelliar is appointed the First Lord of Hillsfar by Fzoul. * Maalthiir and Countess Mirabeta of Sembia enter into a secret alliance to reclaim Hillsfar. 1375 Risen Elfkin * The Elven Retreat officially ends, and Elves begin to slowly return to Faerun to reclaim their lost lands. * Hillsfar is reclaimed by Maalthiir with the secret aid of Countess Mirabeta. * Velsharoon pledges his allegiance to Shar, becoming the second deity to use the Shadow Weave. 1376 the Bent Blade * Cormyr falls into a war of succession after the deaths of Alusair Obarskyr and Azoun V. * Tola Vrass and Maalthiir enter into a political marriage, strengthening Hillsfar's ties to Thay. 1377 the Haunting * Shar secretly slays Blibdoolpoolp, gaining the portfolios of Insanity and Revenge, while maintaining her dominance over the portfolio of Darkness. As a result, priests of the dead deity lose their divine powers. Kuo-toa society turns on its head. * Illiboolop of Looblishar receives visions of Blibdoolpoolp's death. The priestess informs the other Kuo-toan clergy within the city. (Darklands) 1378 the Cauldron * Looblishar attacks the Holy Mother Cauldron, killing all within. Illiboolop calls upon Shar to bless the site with her darkness, as the Kuo-toa of Looblishar smash, destroy and pillage all things that remain as reminders of Blibdoolpoolp. (Glimmersea) * Kuo-Toa throughout the Underdark begin sending emissaries to the Holy Mother Cauldron seeking answers for what has happened to Blibdoolpoolp. * Hoar is lured into a trap by Shar, but before she can slay him, he places his divine spark within a nearby mortal, hoping that the seed will someday bear fruit, allowing him to eventually get revenge on the Lady of Loss. The mortals name is Hoaradin. 1379 the Lost Keep * Zhentil Keep Falls to the renewed forces of Hillsfar, which are economically backed by Sembia, Hillsfar then aggressively begins seeking out and crushing other Zhent strongholds in the region. (Moonsea) * Shar and Vhaeraun formalize their alliance and begin to plot against Lolth and the Drow Pantheon. * Sunlord Daelegoth Orndeir is slain by an assassin, and Hoaradin becomes the new Sunlord. * Overmaster Kendrick the Tall mysteriously dies while riding his horse. Countess Mirabeta becomes the new Overmaster of Sembia. 1380 the Blazing Hand * Lathander feels himself transforming into Amaunator, but before the transformation is complete, he rips off the transformed part of his essence and hurls it into Sunlord Hoaradin. The weakened deity of Amaunator is reborn in Hoaradin. * Hoaradin becomes the new demi-god of law, the sun, order and crusades as four essences merge into one: the essence of Hoar, the essence of Amaunator, the essence of Lathander and the essence of Hoaradin. The new deity pledges his allegiance to Lathander in his fight against evil. 1381 the Starving * Many people in Cormyr begin starving to death due to the war of succession and anarchy of the country. * The Church of Hoaradin is officially formed, with its main temple located in Ordulin, and many of those who followed the Risen Sun heresy convert to the Church of Hoaradin. * The Council of Cormyr is formed and head by the noble family of Cormaeril. The council decides to ask for aid from Sembia to end the conflict. The council members are: Cormaeril, Illanace, Emmarask, Ireabor and Hawklin. * Thay begins major combat assaults against Rashemen. 1382 the Black Blazon * With the assistance of the newly formed Church of Hoaradin, and the backing of the Council of Cormyr, Overmaster Mirabeta marches her forces into Cormyr proclaiming the country under the protection of Sembia. The war of succession in Cormyr officially ends. * Hillsfar cements its hold on the Moonsea region, controlling all the lands between the Galena Mountains and the Border Forest. * The Elves of Myth Drannor are successfully forced out of the region by the combined force of Sembia, Hillsfar and the Dalelands. * Hillsfar betrays its alliance with Sembia and with the backing of Thay, begins to expand southward down into the Dalelands. 1383 the Vindicated Warrior * Sembia moves its forces into the Dalelands to block expansion by Hillsfar. * Hoaradin and Lathander discover an ancient artifact that could potentially block Ao's direct influence on Toril. They use the artifact and begin the Deliverance, forcing all deities onto Toril. * Shar, Talona and Vhaeraun cause the destruction of the Drow Pantheon. * Thay successfully conquers Rashemen. 1384 Three Streams Blooded * Lathander and Hoaradin kill Talos and many other minor evil deities. * Helm attempts to bring about the end of the Deliverance but fails. He is slain by Lathander. * Shar, Vhaeraun, Talona and Velsharoon begin hunting down the Seldarine. * Sembia and Hillsfar move into open war. * Mask is slain by Shar. * Tyr is slain by Shar and Velsharoon. 1385 Blue Fire * Beshaba and Tymora slay each other in an epic battle. * Garagos slays Red Knight but is in turn slain by Tempus. * Mystra is slain by Shar and the Weave is held together by her Chosen. * Azuth is slain by Velsharoon. * The Simbul goes insane and begins rampaging across Aglarond. * Elminster falls ill due to the strain of trying to keep the Weave in tact. * Gruumsh becomes the last of the Orc Pantheon. 1386 the Halflings' Lament * Arvoreen becomes the last of the Halfling Pantheon. * Moradin becomes the last of the Dwarven Pantheon. * Corellon Larethian becomes the last of the Seldarine. * The Gnomish Pantheon is completely slain. * Sembia successfully routes Hillsfar out of the Dalelands. The city of Hillsfar falls to Sembian forces. 1387 the Emerald Ermine * Thay marches on Aglarond, slaying the Simbul and begin enslaving the kingdom. * Mulhorandi Pantheon is destroyed. * Shar and Selune do battle in Waterdeep, destroying the city. Shar nearly defeats Selune but she escapes. 1388 the Tanarukka * Eilistraee and Vhaeraun enter into battle, but before Eilistraee is slain she departs her divine essence and portfolios to Selune. * Bane and Cyric are slain by Lathander and Hoaradin. * Umberlee suffers a major defeat at the hands of Valkur. * Kelemvor is slain by Velsharoon and Shar. * Silvanus and Mielikki are slain by Malar, who in turn is slain by Hoaradin. * Talona slays Sune and Loviatar. * Sembia seizes control of Zhentil Keep, forcing the Hillsfar forces further north, toward the Dragonspine Mountains. 1389 the Forgiven Foes * The Four Elemental deities come together in an attempt to contact Ao and end the Deliverance. Ao departs his essence onto the deities and they rise in power, each of them becoming powerful Overdeities. * The Deliverance ends for Lathander's crimes he is stripped of his portfolios and divine power. * Portfolios vacant portfolios are assigned to the remaining deities. * The Hillsfar forces are crushed as Maalthiir is slain. * The Weave is restructured so that it connects to each of the Elemental Planes and the Planes of Positive and Negative Energy. * Elminster and the remaining Chosen of Mystra die. 1390 the Walking Man * Sembia annexes the Dalelands, creating the Sembian Empire - the lands from the West to the Stormhorn and Desertmouth Mountains, South to the Dragonmere, East to the Sea of Fallen Stars and Galena Mountains and north to the Tortured Land. (Evil Deities: 8) Shar: Bad luck, caverns, darkness, dungeons, forgetfulness, insanity, loss, the night, nihilism, outcasts, secrets, shadows, shadow weave, the Underdark, vengeance Vhaeraun: Assassination, chaos, destruction, mischief, murder, rebellion, stalking, strife, thievery, trickery Talona: Agony, cruelty, disease, oozes, poison, spiders, torture Velsharoon: Death, fear, hatred, liches, necromancy, undead, undeath, vampires Gargauth: Betrayal, corruption, deception, greed, intrigue, lies, powerbrokers, tyranny Gruumsh: Brute strength, conquest, overwhelming numbers, plunder, slaughter, territory, violence Umberlee: Storms, oceans, undertow Auril: Cold, Frost, Ice, Winter (Good Deities: 9) Selune: Adventure, beauty, good fortune, love, magic, the moon, passion, prophecy, quests, stars Lliira: Athletics, dance, festhalls, festivals, freedom, happiness, inspiration, joy, liberty, poetry, spring, song Torm: Duty, guardians, honor, justice, loyalty, oaths, obedience, protection, valor Ilmater: Endurance, healing, martyrdom, perseverance, suffering Chauntea: Abundance, agriculture, birth, children, harvesting, nature, summer, vitality, youth Valkur: Currents, favorable winds, fishing, naval combat, navigation, ships, waves Moradin: Bravery, buried wealth, dwarves, metalcraft, mining, smithwork, stonework Corellon Larethian: Archery, dryads, elves, forests, forest creatures, hunting, wilderness survival Arvoreen: Defense, family, friendship, halflings, honor, hospitality, leadership, tradition, trust, vigilance, wisdom (Neutral Deities: 7) Jergal: Autumn, cycle of life, the dead, decay, fatalism, guardian of tombs, proper burial Hoaradin: Crusades, law, order, purification through fire, the sun Tempus: Battle, planning, skill-at-arms, strategy, tactics, victory, war Gond: Construction, craft, gnomes, illusions, invention Oghma: Cartography, divination, knowledge, scribes, spells, truth Shaundakul: Caravans, exploration, portals, travel Waukeen: Money, trade, wealth, nobility, eloquence The deities listed above are lesser deities, intermediate deities or greater deities, and are not the ONLY deities that exist in the Realms now; they are just the major deities that are known by everyone. Some of the old deities that many thought were "dead" have cults that have successfully resurrected them in one form or another. For example, Lolth has returned but she is in the form of a Demonic Drider because much of her divine essence was consumed by either Talona or Shar - and she can subtly influence them as a result. She hopes to some day reclaim her former glory and get revenge on those that destroyed her, but at the moment she cannot even grant spells to her worshipers, so she is hardly a major concern. (She is considered to have a Divine Rank of zero.) Some other deities are in a similar boat, some have achieved demi-god status, etc. Ao is dead as he placed all of his essence into the four elemental gods, who now act as the overdeities of Toril, each of them having a Divine Rank of 25. They work together to keep the balance, they no longer grant spells to their followers or listen to prayers, they shed their extra portfolios and only have one each (for example Kossuth has the portfolio of elemental fire, but no longer purification through fire, Akadi has the portfolio of elemental air, but no longer movement, speed or flying creatures, etc.). Together they form the Overcouncil, and oversee the actions done by both mortals and deities alike. Shar and Selune are the most powerful deities outside of the Overdeities, each having a Divine Rank of 20 - nearly Overdeities themselves. They represent the eternal conflict between good and evil. Etc. Etc. The Weave no longer requires an operator like Mystra as it is an independent construct. It is an almost sentient force that can automatically repair itself when damaged and defend itself against attack. The Weave is connected to the inner planes, each plane contributes a single "thread" of the Weave - Plane of Fire, Plane of Earth, Plane of Water, Plane of Wind, Plane of Positive Energy and Plane of Negative Energy. When magic is used, it draws upon one or more of these threads to create the desired effect. In any case, thanks for reading this insanely long post. Feel free to suggest something to be added, I'm open to ideas - especially good ones.
Dark Wizard 12-30-06, 12:41 AM	Questions: 1. I recall people mentioning this on the forums. The tear broke up into smaller bits, so no cataclysmic destruction, but parts of Sembia definitely, probably Cormyr, the Dalelands, and Cormanthyr got peppered by smaller fragments. Shouldn't this be about taking out places you dislike rather than asking people for places they dislike? Hopefully you don't base your dislike of things entirely on what other people think. 2. Should have used a spoiler warning. 4. Sammaster for one. The characters destroyed the mythal/artifact macguffin that made dragons rage periodically. As a result, dragons should start making a "comeback" in the next few centuries. Comments: The Gods - if you want grittier, have more evil and neutral gods, fewer good deities. Have some new divine edict making them more remote from the mortal world. That should make the world feel more dark and hopeless. I like the elemental Overcouncil idea (no need for divine rank 25 though, the rules only go up to 20, anything above is like epic level divine, meaning Overgod status "they can do anything" sort). However, I think from the way you have your events, consider having them be the reason for the Godswar. Ao doesn't seem the type to not interfere when all the pantheonic shifting happened in your timeline (he seemed pretty intrusive since the ToT). The trimming-of-the-fat attitude might be something the elemental deities would do as an inaugural step towards overdeity status. Hoaradin seems a bit superfluous. By the information in your timeline, he's Lathander's buddy with a comicbook style convolutated backstory (not saying such comicbook style stories are bad, just put something behind it). He doesn't stand up as his own character. You simply knocked off most of the other deities, just seems like an incongruity of priorities in my opinion. None of the good deities worked together to save their hides from godsassination by the dark deadly trio? You breezed through most of the motivations and reasons for why some things and beings reacted how they did. Both the why and the how need a bit more, but undertaking such a massive work doesn't happen over night. A few questions: - What reason do the Dalelands have to help oust the Elves from the forest, considering the Dalesfolk have/had relatively strong ties with the elves. - What's your goal behind uniting large swathes of Faerun into two empires? - What about the North - Luskan, Neverwinter, Silverymoon? - The Western Heartlands - Baldur's Gate, Berdusk, Scournubel, Westgate? - The Southern Sword Coast - Amn, Tethyr, Calimshan, Lake of Steam Region. - The Southern Sea of Fallen Stars - Chondath, Turmish, even Chessenta? - The Shining South and Chult - Halruaa, Dambrath, Luiren, etc.? - Anauroch, Shade and the Shadovar? All of these become non-participants in this modified setting. That's sort of the feel I get from this, a few interesting ideas that try to change the setting, but ignores a majority of the places, peoples and gods. From all the killing of gods, cutting down pantheons, and creating more powerful and monolithic forces of evil (and good so good its borders on bad) I'd say you're aiming for something like the Greyhawk pantheon. Maybe look at that to see if you can grab anything out of it.
Meldread 12-30-06, 11:18 AM	Dark Wizard- Thanks for your responce. This type of responce is what I was looking for, I was afraid the first responce to my thread would be "You killed the Realms" or something along those lines. I don't really see how a tear of Selune didn't cause some cataclysmic distruction - I mean to be visible from space they have to be pretty damn big, and I've read that some of them have atmaspheres which make some of them at least have strong gravity (meaning that they are either large in size or have heavy mass). In any case, I might just glaze over it because I don't want to wipe out all of Faerun. The Gods - if you want grittier, have more evil and neutral gods, fewer good deities. Have some new divine edict making them more remote from the mortal world. That should make the world feel more dark and hopeless. Yeah, when re-doing the gods I originally just wrote down portfolios, then I created a list of my most interesting / favorite deities. I looked for what portfolios corresponded with each deity and began giving them out, then came up with a somewhat contrived backstory as to why it happened - using Lathander's Deliverance plot idea as a catalyst to get things started. I just ended up with more good deities than evil ones, but the evil deities are generally speaking more powerful than the good ones and their powers are more monolithic as well. Gargauth for example, encompasses just about every form of corruption that you can think of and is highly tempting. I think if you look at the portfolios things balance out in the end. However, I do agree that the deities should be allowed less access to the world. How do you think people will feel after the Deliverance? Will they resent deities for what they have done? I like the elemental Overcouncil idea (no need for divine rank 25 though, the rules only go up to 20, anything above is like epic level divine, meaning Overgod status "they can do anything" sort). However, I think from the way you have your events, consider having them be the reason for the Godswar. I originally was going to have Shar free some great evil power - a being that had the power to devour entire worlds and deities - which forced Ao to leave Toril to do battle with it. I decided to go the Deliverance route because it was a plot end that needed to be tied up. I either had to have Lathander become Amaunator or have him perform the Deliverance, and overall I found Amaunator a bland deity - kinda like a Neutral form of Gargauth. Hence the creation of Hoaradin. I will probably boot them down to Divine Ranks of 20 like Shar and Selune. I have to agree with you on that point. I disliked Ao for the reason you stated - because he could do anything he wanted. I want the Overcouncil to be more of a godly Senate if you will - where deities have to justify their actions (acting outside of their portfolios, acting in ways that threaten the existence of Toril, etc.) to the Council. I disliked the Judge, Jury and Executioner route that was done with Ao, and Shar and Selune could serve as the counter balances as well. Thanks for the suggestion. Ao doesn't seem the type to not interfere when all the pantheonic shifting happened in your timeline (he seemed pretty intrusive since the ToT). The trimming-of-the-fat attitude might be something the elemental deities would do as an inaugural step towards overdeity status. I threw out some made-up artifact that Shar found (being the goddess of secrets and all - she has a tendency to find out such things), and then placed strategically for Lathander to find so he could do his Deliverance. Shar wanted Lathander to perform the Deliverance because she wanted to use the opportunity to bring about her ultimate goal: the destruction of everything. She came rather close. Hoaradin seems a bit superfluous. By the information in your timeline, he's Lathander's buddy with a comicbook style convolutated backstory (not saying such comicbook style stories are bad, just put something behind it). He doesn't stand up as his own character. You simply knocked off most of the other deities, just seems like an incongruity of priorities in my opinion. I agree, unfortunately. :/ I had trouble adding him in - Hoaradin is actually loosely based around a character I once played that was a Heretic of Kossuth. However, I faced the problem with Amaunator coming back to life and him being a rather bland deity, killing off Lathander in the process. So he is definitely a contrived character - he came about a bit too much like Cyric to suit my tastes. However, I do find him a somewhat interesting deity whose Church will ultimately become the power behind the throne in Sembia (similar to how the Catholic Church was to medieval monarchs). The focus for me is not so much on the deity itself as his church, and I needed his church to exist to give Sembia the type of flavor I wanted. His church is based around the Twelve Articles of Faith which can be summed up as: 1. Belief that Hoaradin is the one true god. 2. Belief in his power and that he works through his mortal servants (priests / crusaders). 3. Belief that only his faithful are worthy of receiving his divine grace and goodness. 4. Belief that the High Sunlord is supremely ordained by Hoaradin himself. 5. Belief that only the Church of the Purifying Sun (Hoaradin's Church) has the inarguable Holy Truth, given to them through divine revelation, which is undiluted and unobscured. 6. Belief in the power of the Purifying Flame as a beacon of the Faithful and a redeemer of the Wicked. 7. Belief in the eternal struggle against Chaos and Evil, the Twin Enemies of the Faith. 8. Belief in the eternal struggle against Three-fold Sin, the corrupter of the Faithful. (Sins of deed called Crime, sins of thought called Delusion, and Sins of word called Heresy.) 9. Belief in the redemption of Sin through the power of the Purifying Flame. 10. Belief in the path of righteousness, the power of good works, and the eternal vigilance against sin. 11. Reaffirmation of the Church of the Purifying Sun's supremacy above all other congregations. 12. Belief in the power of Worldly Rulers, provided that they are "righteous" (i.e. Church approved.) ...and his church is supposed to be run by the "good guys". I am doing similar things with other deities, taking the focus off the deities themselves and down to their individual churches and / or core belief systems. None of the good deities worked together to save their hides from godsassination by the dark deadly trio? 1. Shar was pretty much a uber deity after killing a few deities. She was the strongest deity - equal in divine ranking to Mystra before she killed Blibdoolpoolp and most of the Drow pantheon. Suffice it to say she was able to take out Mystra alone. 2. Most of the weaker (non-Greater) deities ran into hiding. They were hiding from both Lathander and Shar as both of them were on a massive killing spree. In addition to that each deity had to worry about their typical enemies. 3. Oghma, Chauntea and Lliira knew about Lathander's plans for the Deliverance but did nothing to stop them. Chauntea because she loved Lathander to much to crush his hope, Lliira because she believed in Lathander's idealist world, and Oghma because he didn't feel it was his place to interfere - preferring rather to be the observer of history than one who creates it. If you will notice, Lliira and Chauntea made out like bandits when it came to portfolio acquisition. Oghma lost a few but gained others, mostly this was due to my personal tastes – I felt Lliira was more conducive to inspiration than Oghma who I associate with knowledge, scribes, ancient texts and lost lore. 4. It really came down to the evil guys working together (for once) and the good guys being caught off guard / working against one another / looking out for their own skin / not powerful enough to have any real effect. You breezed through most of the motivations and reasons for why some things and beings reacted how they did. Both the why and the how need a bit more, but undertaking such a massive work doesn't happen over night. Yeah I know. I wanted to add little tidbits in the Timeline, but I didn't feel that was the right place for a quick explanation of why X happened. However, in terms of the Deliverance here is what happened in a nutshell. Shar began moving toward her goal of the end of everything and set about moving the pieces (i.e. other deities) into place. She solidified an alliance with Velsharoon for his followers to begin using the Shadow Weave, and then solidified an alliance with Vhaeraun to expand her influence into the Underdark among the Drow with plans to kill Lolth. She killed Blibdoolpoolp years before in an effort to solidify her worship among Kuo-Toa. She had, even before this, discovered an artifact that would block Ao's influence from Toril allowing the deities to act unmolested. Once all her ducks were in a row, Talona and Velsharoon were firmly on their respective leashes, and Vhaeraun was in her corner she "allowed" Lathander to discover the artifact and its ability to block Ao's influence. Being a deity of secrets, she knew about his plans for the Deliverance and knew that if he took the bait it would give her the perfect opportunity to act as well - it would divide the good aligned deities and catch them off guard, and throw the Neutral ones - such as Helm against Lathander. Once Lathander took the bait, he and Hoaradin (who shared his view that the evil of the world must be purged) used the artifact to block Ao's influence. All the deities were then thrown down onto Toril where they ended up fighting against one another. They fought and died against their ancient enemies, but also they fought and died against Shar and her alliance and Lathander and Hoaradin. Ultimately, it was going to come down to a few deities remaining who would destroy each other. The elemental deities saw this and knew that action had to be taken. They are of a different nature than most of the other deities on Toril - their existence was integral to the existence of Toril itself. If one of them were destroyed, there would be no hope of ever recovering the balance. Therefore, they came together, managed to find a way around the artifacts barrier, and managed to contact Ao. Ao, having watched what had happened but lacking the ability to intervene, gave his divine power to the four elemental deities with instructions to bring about the end of the Deliverance. ...and they did so. So roughly, the whole thing was years and years in the planning and execution and lasted six years. It began in 1383 DR Year of the Vindicated Warrior - named such because Lathander felt he would be vindicated for his first Dawn Cataclysm, and Thay's successful conquest of Rashemen. It ended in 1389 DR Year of the Forgiven Foes - named such for the elemental deities putting aside their differences to bring about the end of the Deliverance. What reason do the Dalelands have to help oust the Elves from the forest, considering the Dalesfolk have/had relatively strong ties with the elves. This is true, and I am operating on the assumption that the Elves came back in mass. The general thought behind this is that there wouldn't be enough land to share and Elves would want to claim Cormanthor as their ancestral homeland. Thus, the humans who "despoil" the land have to go... which means mostly the Dalesfolk. It is very similar to how they reacted when Sembia first won its independence. What's your goal behind uniting large swathes of Faerun into two empires? It just seemed rather logical that over time human empires would appear, and so much seemed to be hanging on by a small thread - Cormyr for example was easy to topple, as all I had to do was kill the reagent and the would-be infant king. That was just asking for a War of Succession, which made it easy for Sembia (who had long been trying to find a way to weasel in on Cormyr) to do so. The Dalelands while having a fighting force and a loose alliance really cannot compete against a real army, especially if they are being bothered by Elves and the Kingdom of Hillsfar. That left the door open for Sembia to swoop in as "protectors" and annex the entire region. Then all they had to do was get rid of the Kingdom of Hillsfar, which considering that they had all those resources behind them should not have been too difficult. Thay had to win against Rashemen eventually, and it was more or less a foregone conclusion that they would win if they really came together and put their minds to victory. Then Aglarond is being torn apart by an insane Simbul, which made it easy for Thay to sweep in and pick up the pieces after taking her out. That is where I am at the moment timeline wise. I do not see why Thay would cease their expansion once they have begun. I see it more as them opening a Pandora's Box that they cannot close, something that is both troubling and pleasing to the Zulkirs all at the same time. They are getting what they want in the short term but they also have to know that conquest will only take them so far for so long… and it has to result in changes on how Thay and Thayan society is viewed and treated. What about the North - Luskan, Neverwinter, Silverymoon? As I said, my main focus is on the area east of the Anauroch Desert. However, I have given serious thought to Silverymoon. I was actually focusing on Silverymoon first as I wanted to make the region an Elven Kingdom, and that is likely what I am going to do. The lands west of the Anauroch Desert and north of the River Delimebitr, ending west at the side of the River Desarin is Elvish / Dwarven lands. Old Empires are reborn and are the last hope for the Elvish and Dwarven peoples who are clinging on like old relics from the past. Luskan and Neverwinter I have also given some thought to but have not come to any conclusions. Halflings have been largely integrated into Human society living in mostly rural areas. Some Dwarves have also been integrated into Human society living in mountainous regions. Further south some Elves have done the same, integrating into Human society. There has basically been a large process of assimilation going on of cultures and people, with the North holding on to the cultural past for the Elves and Dwarves. I haven't given much thought to the other regions aside from the Shade and the Shadovar whom I am still contemplating on how to kill and wipe out... I want to turn the Anauroch Desert into a dangerous and blighted land with unique monsters... basically I want to make traveling through it dangerous if not impossible. I might say that they awoke some ancient curse or something but that just sounds lame and cheesy. I'm open to ideas for them and the other regions of Faerun. The problem is Faerun is a HUGE place with tons and tons of lore and history. It is a lot to digest and come up with a semi-plausible excuse for why X and Y have happened instead of Z while not forgetting that Q has already happened. I haven't had time to tangle with the other regions yet (though I want to) and I am open to ideas / suggestions.
MarkusTay63 12-31-06, 11:15 AM	The 'Tears' don't neccessarily have to be so big that Faerunians would see them with the naked eye. I'm sure there are fist-sized pieces floating around that could possibly wipe out a village. I think you are better off with the breaking-up scenario you have used, this way you can change just the areas you want by saying pieces fell there. Aside from that, you are are one of the few people I've ever met who makes larger-scale changes then me. Kudos. :D PS - Whenever it happens, call it the "Year of Shed Tears", this way it has multiple meanings. ;)
Meldread 12-31-06, 01:47 PM	MarkusTay63- It's already happened. I didn't make that change, its cannon, but I am not sure exactly how it happened. All I know is that it happened in one of the Novels, written by an author who never bothered to actually use something like Wikipedia to see what type of impact it would have, or common sense trying to estimate the size of such an object. (If one of the visible tears hit Faerun there really should be nothing left, and if there was anything left alive it would be on the verge of death.) Here is what happened, Year 1373 Year of the Rogue Dragons: One of the larger rocks comprising the Tears of Selune inexplicably moves much closer to Toril, causing a solar eclipse over much of Faerun. This rogue tear remained motionless over Toril for nearly a day before plummeting again. As it entered the atmosphere, Selune’s tear separated into five large chunks, each cutting a flaming path through the sky. Those chunks then broke apart into thousands of smaller pieces. This event, witnessed by tens of thousands, was seen as an ill omen by many. If this event actually happened, it would be the last event any of those people ever saw. However, because I don't want to completely wipe out all life on Toril, I'm doing some hand waving and basically saying most of it burned up in the atmosphere and never touched the ground. (Of course, even then...)
MarkusTay63 12-31-06, 01:58 PM	Sorry, I thought you made that part up, my bad. I vaguely recollect reading that somewhere, but I think common sense kicked in and my brain regurgitated it. You are quite right, whoever wrote that obviously never got past 4th grade science.
Dark Wizard 12-31-06, 03:50 PM	Thanks for your responce. This type of responce is what I was looking for, I was afraid the first responce to my thread would be "You killed the Realms" or something along those lines. No problem. :) I like to think of this more as "you really messed with the setting." Not messed up in a bad way, just rearranged a lot. But either way you are fully within your right to Realmsicide, if you want to call it that. I don't really see how a tear of Selune didn't cause some cataclysmic distruction - I mean to be visible from space they have to be pretty damn big, and I've read that some of them have atmaspheres which make some of them at least have strong gravity (meaning that they are either large in size or have heavy mass). In any case, I might just glaze over it because I don't want to wipe out all of Faerun. I always thought they were chunks of ice like comets. Visible from space could mean a number of sizes. Reflectiveness of the material also plays a part. They are named the Tears of Selune, so I personally think of them as just faint glimmering objects in the sky, which don't have to be apocolyptic size at all, quite the opposite in fact. It's not like they said Selune herself fell into Toril. Now the passage you quoted said they broke up in the atmosphere, into five then into thousands of pieces. Likely the reentry through the atmosphere destroyed most of them. Whether or not an object survives reentry depends on it's entry angle. Only a very specific window allows for a good reentry, otherwise the object spends too much time heating up through the atmosphere and burns up. Thousands of objects hit Earth every year, most burn up, the others usually end up too small to do anything, and a few do cause some damage, but rarely on a large scale. Without knowing the exact size of the Tear, it's hard to say what the pieces could do. Even then, we're not sure exactly what sizes the pieces were, they could have splintered into 5 x 1000 pieces or 5 x 900,000. It makes a big difference. The smaller the object the less likely enough of it will survive reentry to make any impact on the surface. As for the atmosphere bit, maybe it was magically sustained. Magic also caused the falling, so we don't know what sort of physical force actually brought them down. Real world physics can only account for a part of this. The fallout isn't clear either, the event happened not long ago in the novels, and the recent novels just started giving the consequences of that. Suffice to say, I think the author knew enough about the basic science of it that he put enough into his description to justify the (less than cataclysmic) effect on the world. I do recall others mention the event did cause some trouble in Sembia, Cormyr, the Dalelands, and the Western Heartlands.
Zevox 12-31-06, 04:24 PM	Re: Selūne's Tear - That was the event known as the "Rains of Fire" (from the name I'm hoping you can guess just how many pieces the thing broke into). There was quite a lot of damage, but it was mostly confined to Sembia (due to where the Tear was positioned by its cause - I'll explain that below in an sblock). The novel Shadowbred tells of some of the damage they did. The damage was chiefly to outlying Sembian farming villages. Some were destroyed, most all had extensive damage to their crops, and as a result the entire nation is in something of a crisis when it comes to food. Many villagers fled to the larger cities, leading to overcrowding and squalor, and the current internal situation of the nation is not helping (if you'd like me to describe that, I can, but its basically a total spoiler for the plot of Shadowbred, so it may be best just to read that). Now, if you want a full description of its cause, thats basically the full story of the Erevis Cale Trilogy, but heres a brief version of it I posted in another thread: [The Rains of Fire] were caused by an ancient and powerful Githyrik Cerebremancer, Vhostym "The Sojourner". He was over 10,000 years old, surviving chiefly due to his magic, and was at the point where only becoming a Lich or using similar form-changing magic or psionics would permit him to survive much longer. He did not wish to do that, so he resigned to die in his natural form. His last wish was to walk along the beaches of Faerūn, as he did in his youth beside his father, one last time before he died. The problem was that his race is innately sensitive to sunlight, and at his age it was magnified so that direct exposure to even tiny slivers of light was painful. Walking beneath the sun itself would have killed him instantly. So, in order to fulfill his final wish, he had a group of Slaadi he had magically altered while in their eggs obtain for him an artifact called the Weave Tap, which could store massive amounts of power from both the Weave and Shadow Weave. He had the Slaadi use it to drain power from the Netherese mantle at Skullport and the Mythallar of the sunken Netherese city of Sakkors, then stole one of the Towers of the Eternal Eclipse and moved it to the island called Wayrock in order to use the ability of the stone the tower was made of to enhance his magic. With all of that, he enacted an epic spell which took one of Seūne's tears and brought it closer to Toril - close enough that it could cause an eclipse - and set in orbit at just the right rate to cause a continuous eclipse above Wayrock. This would let him walk its beaches, fulfilling his desire. This got turned into the Rain of Fire when Erevis Cale killed the Weave Tap, causing the magic keeping Selūne's tear in orbit to fail. It plummeted towards Faerūn, breaking into many pieces as it did, and caused quite a bit of destruction as a result (apparently especially in Sembia). Hope that helps. Zevox
Meldread 12-31-06, 05:02 PM	Thanks to your response Zevox. After reading all of that, I'm just going to axe the whole tear thing and pretend it never happened. Not only does it have a negative impact on what I am attempting to do (problems it caused for Sembia), but... it's totally lame. I hope the characters in the story were at least interesting, because the plot is totally ridiculous. I just cannot allow this to happen because the plot is just so horrid.
Dark Wizard 12-31-06, 05:22 PM	Heh, don't hate on the event because it spoils your plans for Sembia. In a century, who knows what will happen...
Meldread 12-31-06, 05:31 PM	I don't dislike it because of what it does to Sembia. In truth it would be useful because one of the main problems is that I cannot think of enough things to fill in time. I need at least 50 years. So far I've only gotten roughly twenty. I dislike the event because it's just ridiculous. I mean, seriously - it is ridiculous and I am speaking in the most measured and polite tones that I can muster. I am using a great deal of restraint because I am angry (the polite word) / frustrated that this ridiculous event was added to cannon.
Dark Wizard 12-31-06, 05:43 PM	Can you say why it's ridiculous to you? Note, try to steer any comment away from criticizing the novels, but you could aim them towards their function as a working piece of game lore. Perhaps other RSEs have made me callous to such events, but the Rain of Fire seemed relatively ... ho-hum.
Meldread 12-31-06, 06:47 PM	To be fair, I have never read the book nor do I have any intentions of doing so - I am going by Zevox's summary of the plot. I am basing my comments off of that, and I am saying the plot is ridiculous. I mean, don't get me wrong - I'm not taking a swing at the author. I'm sure he or she spent a great deal of time on the book. It just seems like the most deliberate and outlandish thing had to happen expressly for the purpose of a RSE. It is honestly difficult for me to put into words because I am left half speechless and half frustrated that it got added to cannon. I am also trying to avoid direct criticism of the book. It's not just the ho-hum... it's the epic nature of it. It's just... ridiculous. Seriously, that is the best word that describes it. It may be that I favor more realistic books which is why I generally dislike the novels and why I hate them being added to cannon. I feel the same way when a character is killed and brought back for the 827629274th time.
Zevox 12-31-06, 07:18 PM	Actually, it isn't intended to be a RSE at all, which is probably why Kemp completely downplayed the aftereffects of the Rains of Fire until his new trilogy. The stuff that I gave can't even be considered a summary of that trilogy, just a summary of its end result as far as the rest of Toril is concerned. The actual trilogy itself centers around Mask's Chosen Erevis Cale and Drasek Riven, and their involvement trying to figure out what Vhostym was up to and stop him (even though it took until the very end, when Cale confronted and killed Vhostym, for them to discover what he was up to). The whole point of it was that everybody in the book assumed that someone of Vhostym's ability and power (based on the descriptions in the book, he was probably easily Elminster's better) wouldn't be spending so much of his time and gathering so much power for anything small or minor - but in the end, he did. All that power he amassed, all the deities he ticked off doing it (Selūne and Cyric primarily), and all the havoc his Slaadi caused in various places in Faerūn in the process could've been used for something truly massive, but instead all he wanted was to fulfill such a simple last wish as to walk the beaches of Faerūn beneath the sun again. He just used epic steps to be able to do it, because other methods - like magical darkness - wouldn't have let him see the world lit by the sun when he did. It was supposed to be a change of pace from the typical situations with villains looking to conquer the world or portions of it - and personally, I absolutely loved that about it. Oh, and since I noticed the question of how much damage the Tear could've done up there, the novel did mention that this one was 1/20 the size of Selūne (and thus had to moved 20x closer to Toril to cause the eclipse) - not that that helps much unless theres a sourcebook out there that gives Selūne's size, but its there for you. Zevox
MarkusTay63 12-31-06, 11:55 PM	In the light of that spoiler Zevox, I can now see what the author was going for. At first, I was like "Oh no, more munchkinism!". We have another Uber character knocking celestial bodies out of their orbits and screwing up the whole world just so he can get a bit of shade. But now I almost like it. Firstly, because it shows our usual munchkins that no matter how big and bad you think you are, there is always someone bigger and badder. Second, it goes from an ego-tripping maniac to a lonely OLD man who just wants to die happy. It's almost..... sweet. :yuck: And it's nice to know there are still those folks out there that can make El look up into the sky and say "holy s__t! I think mayhap I hath soiled my underclothes!" :D
Ateth_Istarlin 01-03-07, 09:07 AM	First off, I just want to say that I don't mean to disparage your work - I am planning something similar myself (starting in about 1375 or so). I found your ideas very interesting - but I have a question concerning the Mulhorandi gods, 'As Thoth is also a god of secrets - why didn't he know about Shar's plan before the Mulhorandi pantheon was destroyed?':confused:
renan_martha 04-19-07, 05:40 PM	Awesome!!!