Source of Divine Power? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Source of Divine Power? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Roman
09-10-03, 06:26 PM How do FR Gods get their divine power? Is it inherent to them, or do they need worshipers to maintain their power or is it something different still? Thanks. :)
Xae'an
09-10-03, 08:24 PM Since the Time of Troubles, by Ao's decree, they need worshippers to maintain their powers, but seemingly this is not the only factor for a deity's level of power. Shar e.g. is a very powerful goddess (divine rank 18) although her church is a rather small one. Waukeen on the other hand has plenty of followers but is only a lesser goddess. Gods can rise to power by fighting other gods: Tempus became a greater god for defeating Garagos in battle. There are many roads to power be it murdering other deities (like cyric did) or be it large number of worshippers (Chauntea is the only deity with a divine rank as high as 19)
Roman
09-10-03, 10:37 PM Thanks for the info. :)
Baron Phylos
09-10-03, 10:45 PM Shar, Talos and other Deities like them also get power from the countless people who try to appease them to avoid being the targets of those gods' powers.

Doesn't explain Ishitia, Grumbar and Akadi. Though those three probably get alot of Worship from sentient elementals and such.
The_Sleeper
09-11-03, 04:06 PM I personally think that before ToT the gods drew upon Raw Magic, completely bypassing the Weave (ofcoarse). After ToT, Ao restricted it somewhat so that for a god to keep his/her powers, they would need to maintain their followers, but still bypassing the Weave completely.
Alac Luin
09-11-03, 10:31 PM There is also a "divine spark" that is granted by AO that all gods have. Finder is the one who gained Moandar's. The divine spark is not nececarilly the same as the portfolio. The amount of worshipers does corilate to a god's divine rank. But IIRC, it's the divine spark that maters most if someone wants to grant spells.
Shemeska the Marauder
09-12-03, 03:54 AM The elemental powers such as Grumbar, Akadi, etc are more the personifications of their respective elemental plane than dieties. If Ao removed their diety status on Toril tommorow, they'd all be sitting back on the inner planes perfectly indifferent to it. They wouldn't be able to grant spells or other divine only powers on Toril, such is Ao's power as the overdiety of Toril, but they honestly wouldn't be appreciably decreased in power.

It's an open question if they gain their power from the worship of elementals, or simply if they're a different class of divine beings. After all, they aren't really empowered by belief since they're within the inner, rather than outer planes. But yet at the same time they've always been treated as greater power (with the exception of FR where there power in the Faerunian pantheon is reduced by Ao's decree of worship on Toril = power on Toril).

Then again FR's cosmology has always been a bit self centered, and especially so with the advent of FR 3rd ed.
Pandelume
09-14-03, 06:05 PM Its said that Ao made the first Gods so the answer is they get their power from Ao.

But Gods after the TOT only have power because mortals believe they do.
Does belief give the god power that Ao transforms into divine power..

If you think about it, it could be some sort of inside joke.
Because FR only really exists in the mind of the fan's when DM or novel bring up images in the player\reader minds.

So for the gods of Torli to gain power from the same source as the world sort of exists make sense. ?

Or have I read to many Terry Pratchett books. :D
Grognard the Mighty
09-15-03, 02:25 AM The source of a god's power depends upon the version of D&D cosmology one is using. In the "multiverse" version of the cosmology, the one TSR had just before it went out of business, all gods drew their power from mortals, even the non-FR ones. TSR combined all it's settings into one shared universe with the advent of Planescape (And such became the viewpoint of all their official products.). This was hardly the only view ever had by D&D in general though.
Rumblebelly
09-15-03, 03:14 AM I personally like the idea of gods deriving their power from the belief, faith, what-have-you of their worshippers. It allows me, in a world where magic is the norm and not so mysterious, to integrate a greater mystery into the cosmos--i.e., the collective consciousness and the power of the mind. In my conception of things, Ao represents the One, or the demiurge, or the eternal essence. The gods are dreams or illusions of the collective unconscious, who also derive their powers from the Universal mind Ao. Thus, in my game psionics represent the true mystery of the cosmos. They sort of play the role that the mystics, alchemists, rosicrucians, templars, etc. play in occult and conspiracy traditions in our world, whereas magic and manipulation of the Weave, whether by divine or arcane means, is analogous to the accepted and "true" practice of "science" in our world. Some wizards or priests play at both, but true initiates understand that each individual is part of the cosmic whole and true power comes from within his or her own mind, whereas, Wizards and priests rely on a source outside of themselves.

The "Illuminati" of the Realms sometimes go on to become gods who guide their "followers" through this stage of reincarnation into the next stage.

Or something like that. I'm still working out the details.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Roman 09-10-03, 06:26 PM	How do FR Gods get their divine power? Is it inherent to them, or do they need worshipers to maintain their power or is it something different still? Thanks. :)
Xae'an 09-10-03, 08:24 PM	Since the Time of Troubles, by Ao's decree, they need worshippers to maintain their powers, but seemingly this is not the only factor for a deity's level of power. Shar e.g. is a very powerful goddess (divine rank 18) although her church is a rather small one. Waukeen on the other hand has plenty of followers but is only a lesser goddess. Gods can rise to power by fighting other gods: Tempus became a greater god for defeating Garagos in battle. There are many roads to power be it murdering other deities (like cyric did) or be it large number of worshippers (Chauntea is the only deity with a divine rank as high as 19)
Roman 09-10-03, 10:37 PM	Thanks for the info. :)
Baron Phylos 09-10-03, 10:45 PM	Shar, Talos and other Deities like them also get power from the countless people who try to appease them to avoid being the targets of those gods' powers. Doesn't explain Ishitia, Grumbar and Akadi. Though those three probably get alot of Worship from sentient elementals and such.
The_Sleeper 09-11-03, 04:06 PM	I personally think that before ToT the gods drew upon Raw Magic, completely bypassing the Weave (ofcoarse). After ToT, Ao restricted it somewhat so that for a god to keep his/her powers, they would need to maintain their followers, but still bypassing the Weave completely.
Alac Luin 09-11-03, 10:31 PM	There is also a "divine spark" that is granted by AO that all gods have. Finder is the one who gained Moandar's. The divine spark is not nececarilly the same as the portfolio. The amount of worshipers does corilate to a god's divine rank. But IIRC, it's the divine spark that maters most if someone wants to grant spells.
Shemeska the Marauder 09-12-03, 03:54 AM	The elemental powers such as Grumbar, Akadi, etc are more the personifications of their respective elemental plane than dieties. If Ao removed their diety status on Toril tommorow, they'd all be sitting back on the inner planes perfectly indifferent to it. They wouldn't be able to grant spells or other divine only powers on Toril, such is Ao's power as the overdiety of Toril, but they honestly wouldn't be appreciably decreased in power. It's an open question if they gain their power from the worship of elementals, or simply if they're a different class of divine beings. After all, they aren't really empowered by belief since they're within the inner, rather than outer planes. But yet at the same time they've always been treated as greater power (with the exception of FR where there power in the Faerunian pantheon is reduced by Ao's decree of worship on Toril = power on Toril). Then again FR's cosmology has always been a bit self centered, and especially so with the advent of FR 3rd ed.
Pandelume 09-14-03, 06:05 PM	Its said that Ao made the first Gods so the answer is they get their power from Ao. But Gods after the TOT only have power because mortals believe they do. Does belief give the god power that Ao transforms into divine power.. If you think about it, it could be some sort of inside joke. Because FR only really exists in the mind of the fan's when DM or novel bring up images in the player\reader minds. So for the gods of Torli to gain power from the same source as the world sort of exists make sense. ? Or have I read to many Terry Pratchett books. :D
Grognard the Mighty 09-15-03, 02:25 AM	The source of a god's power depends upon the version of D&D cosmology one is using. In the "multiverse" version of the cosmology, the one TSR had just before it went out of business, all gods drew their power from mortals, even the non-FR ones. TSR combined all it's settings into one shared universe with the advent of Planescape (And such became the viewpoint of all their official products.). This was hardly the only view ever had by D&D in general though.
Rumblebelly 09-15-03, 03:14 AM	I personally like the idea of gods deriving their power from the belief, faith, what-have-you of their worshippers. It allows me, in a world where magic is the norm and not so mysterious, to integrate a greater mystery into the cosmos--i.e., the collective consciousness and the power of the mind. In my conception of things, Ao represents the One, or the demiurge, or the eternal essence. The gods are dreams or illusions of the collective unconscious, who also derive their powers from the Universal mind Ao. Thus, in my game psionics represent the true mystery of the cosmos. They sort of play the role that the mystics, alchemists, rosicrucians, templars, etc. play in occult and conspiracy traditions in our world, whereas magic and manipulation of the Weave, whether by divine or arcane means, is analogous to the accepted and "true" practice of "science" in our world. Some wizards or priests play at both, but true initiates understand that each individual is part of the cosmic whole and true power comes from within his or her own mind, whereas, Wizards and priests rely on a source outside of themselves. The "Illuminati" of the Realms sometimes go on to become gods who guide their "followers" through this stage of reincarnation into the next stage. Or something like that. I'm still working out the details.