Starting Baneits in Daggerdale [Archive] - Wizards Community

Starting Baneits in Daggerdale [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Draco Strang
09-22-07, 01:54 PM I've got a group of players who are starting an evil campaign with me next week. They're all ECL 6, with a human wizard, human cleric of Bane, a bugbear fighter, and a kobold rogue (with a hat of disguise). The players and I know each other, and they're all very responsible and dependable. We're not going for Chaotic Stupid Evil with wanton babyrape and thatch roof burning, but the players want their characters to be anti-heroes, more or less.

My starting adventure (that I'm recycling from an old campaign) involves being contracted by Lord Randal Morn of Daggerdale to find and exterminate a holdout of Cyricists somewhere in the woods of Daggerdale. With good characters, everything would be hunky-dory and they would hire on just fine. But......we all know that the Dalelands have no use for Bane and his followers. What I want to do is somehow use this prejudice to somehow force/provoke the characters into a tight spot, with the only way out offered as a pardon by Lord Morn, in exchange for services rendered.

Now, I'm sort of hoping one of them does something stupid and gives me a free license to arrest them, but I can't count on it. Since both humans are followers of Bane, and the non-humans have IC reasons to not just cut and run, I was thinking of using Bane's recent fall/return and a few ignorant villagers slinging insults to goad them into something stupid. Or, maybe a frameup from Morn himself, just so long as he can get the party into a tightspot and demand their cooperation.

I know, it sounds a bit railroaded, but once they get to the Cyricist stronghold and clean it out, there's a half-dozen hooks set up, and they'll be able to do what they want.

Am I on the right track, or does someone have a better idea?
Balafre
09-22-07, 04:09 PM I always think that DMs are too scared to pull out something cause it would be railroaded

youre the DM, you decide what could be best for them, even if the game starts with some railroading plot, you'll be able to develop from there

why not have them on a mission by some people in the Moonsea to let say, cause some riot or spy on some people and get caught and as a only way to get released/avoid being killed they are compulsed to accomplish that mission of yours then after they'll be able to continue on

:)
capnvan
09-22-07, 05:30 PM Well, if you're looking to start in or near Daggerdale, and you're willing to give up on the Randal Morn angle for now, the Banites in Zhentil Keep (and the Zhentarim) have an interest in eliminating Cyricists.

And they can be a lot more persuasive than Randal. He might get squeamish compared to some of the potential penalties Fzoul and his cronies might come up with.

Railroading, sure, but, hey, the players want to walk on the dark side... and it gets you where you need to go.
Meldread
09-23-07, 03:38 AM Do your players want to play evil characters or anti-heroes? You don't have to be evil to be an anti-hero, you know. ;)

If they want to actually play an evil campaign, it might be more fun instead of having the battles be evil vs evil to instead have them face off against what might typically be their allies in a "hero-aligned" campaign. Put them in as Zhent Agents and have them working to undermine, capture, torture and kill Harpers. Create some plot for them to undermine Daggerdale and ultimately deliver the city into the hands of a puppet Zhent ruler or something.

That allows you to avoid railroading and might be more interesting.
Draco Strang
09-23-07, 01:47 PM Do your players want to play evil characters or anti-heroes? You don't have to be evil to be an anti-hero, you know. ;)

If they want to actually play an evil campaign, it might be more fun instead of having the battles be evil vs evil to instead have them face off against what might typically be their allies in a "hero-aligned" campaign. Put them in as Zhent Agents and have them working to undermine, capture, torture and kill Harpers. Create some plot for them to undermine Daggerdale and ultimately deliver the city into the hands of a puppet Zhent ruler or something.

That allows you to avoid railroading and might be more interesting.

They want to be evil anti heroes, actually. Movers and shakers in the world that change it for their personal gain, and any cause they might serve, charities and Christmas bedamned. All without attracting the wrath of Elminster or Drizzt, because well....that's boring.

I like the idea of overthrowing a small area for Zhentarim control. After this Cyricist adventure I had hooks for them to:

investigate/barter with the Red Wizards of Thay in Mulmaster for a slave trade/magic item deal
hire on with a mercenary force that's currently clearing out the elves in the High Forest
be recalled to Zhentil Keep to help quell an attempted coup on Fzoul by what's left of the nobility in the city.
carry out a mission for a green dragon (the kobold in the party is a dragon shaman) that will probably involve killing a metallic dragon
defend themselves from overzealous bounty hunters who are trying to capture the bugbear fighter, who has a price on his head. This hook's going to keep popping up randomly due to bounty posters and the long arm of the law.

I really don't have a direction for them as of this moment, I just want them to have fun. After a few weeks of play I'm sure an overriding goal or cause will show up, and give me a path to develop. If not, I'll run them through the meatgrinder that is City of the Spider Queen
Meldread
09-23-07, 02:54 PM Well the good news is depending on what date you set the Campaign Elminster should be out of the picture, and therefore not a threat to your party. The Zhents are on the rise as well, and this in turn provides your group with some interesting possibilities.

What I would do is try and think of a way to tie them all together. Since you have two Banites, one being a Cleric, connecting them to the Zhents seems like the easiest route to go with. From there it isn't overly difficult to tie the green dragon to the Zhents one way or another. Either the Zhents send the group to the green dragon by wanting the dragon to be in their debt, or they are in debt to the dragon, or possibly even the dragon has somehow found itself working with the Zhents are all possibilities. You can tie the fighter's problems with the law into getting the Harpers involved when they find out he's working with the Zhents.

Personally, I think it would be fun to have a game with action, cloak and dagger and political intrigue - all of which lends itself well to furthering the groups personal gain.

One of the things that I think you need to keep in mind though is that running an evil campaign is different from running a good aligned campaign. In your example you talked of using Randal Morn as somewhat of a "bully" to intimidate the PC's into dealing with a problem. Yet, being evil their reactions might shock you. Depending on the type of character's they are playing the reactions may range from attempting to kill him, to kill his family, to running way, to poisoning him, to lying and saying they'd do it and then just leaving, to doing it and then seeking revenge later.

Normally when you run a "hero-centric" campaign there is a general agreement that things like murder are wrong. Yet there are no such inhibitions when dealing with evil-aligned PC's. There is no real pressure to keep their word, and being threatened or intimidated will always illicit a negative reaction regardless of alignment. Although they might prefer to stay within the law, one of them apparently is already on the wrong side of it, so there is little reason why they would even take his threat seriously. There is no reason they would not lie and then just walk away, possibly even after sending a tip to the enemy to let them know what was up.

If I was going to run the game the first session I would use as a "get to know your character and the other characters" session. That first session is really about getting to know your character and the other characters of the group. I would have key NPC's of the town mapped out. I'd have ready made plot hooks which I would seed around.

I'd pretty much drop the players in, have a ready made contact with at least one or more of the PC's - most likely a Zhent Agent - and sit back and see what they do. I'd occasionally try and throw subtle plot hooks at them to see if they bite, and if they don't I'll be a little less subtle.

I would spend that session watching how the group works together. How I can weave an interesting story around the characters involved as well as to see how they interact with the world around them. Most likely, they will create an adventure themselves without me having to do too much work and I can kind of let things evolve from that point forward.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Draco Strang 09-22-07, 01:54 PM	I've got a group of players who are starting an evil campaign with me next week. They're all ECL 6, with a human wizard, human cleric of Bane, a bugbear fighter, and a kobold rogue (with a hat of disguise). The players and I know each other, and they're all very responsible and dependable. We're not going for Chaotic Stupid Evil with wanton babyrape and thatch roof burning, but the players want their characters to be anti-heroes, more or less. My starting adventure (that I'm recycling from an old campaign) involves being contracted by Lord Randal Morn of Daggerdale to find and exterminate a holdout of Cyricists somewhere in the woods of Daggerdale. With good characters, everything would be hunky-dory and they would hire on just fine. But......we all know that the Dalelands have no use for Bane and his followers. What I want to do is somehow use this prejudice to somehow force/provoke the characters into a tight spot, with the only way out offered as a pardon by Lord Morn, in exchange for services rendered. Now, I'm sort of hoping one of them does something stupid and gives me a free license to arrest them, but I can't count on it. Since both humans are followers of Bane, and the non-humans have IC reasons to not just cut and run, I was thinking of using Bane's recent fall/return and a few ignorant villagers slinging insults to goad them into something stupid. Or, maybe a frameup from Morn himself, just so long as he can get the party into a tightspot and demand their cooperation. I know, it sounds a bit railroaded, but once they get to the Cyricist stronghold and clean it out, there's a half-dozen hooks set up, and they'll be able to do what they want. Am I on the right track, or does someone have a better idea?
Balafre 09-22-07, 04:09 PM	I always think that DMs are too scared to pull out something cause it would be railroaded youre the DM, you decide what could be best for them, even if the game starts with some railroading plot, you'll be able to develop from there why not have them on a mission by some people in the Moonsea to let say, cause some riot or spy on some people and get caught and as a only way to get released/avoid being killed they are compulsed to accomplish that mission of yours then after they'll be able to continue on :)
capnvan 09-22-07, 05:30 PM	Well, if you're looking to start in or near Daggerdale, and you're willing to give up on the Randal Morn angle for now, the Banites in Zhentil Keep (and the Zhentarim) have an interest in eliminating Cyricists. And they can be a lot more persuasive than Randal. He might get squeamish compared to some of the potential penalties Fzoul and his cronies might come up with. Railroading, sure, but, hey, the players want to walk on the dark side... and it gets you where you need to go.
Meldread 09-23-07, 03:38 AM	Do your players want to play evil characters or anti-heroes? You don't have to be evil to be an anti-hero, you know. ;) If they want to actually play an evil campaign, it might be more fun instead of having the battles be evil vs evil to instead have them face off against what might typically be their allies in a "hero-aligned" campaign. Put them in as Zhent Agents and have them working to undermine, capture, torture and kill Harpers. Create some plot for them to undermine Daggerdale and ultimately deliver the city into the hands of a puppet Zhent ruler or something. That allows you to avoid railroading and might be more interesting.
Draco Strang 09-23-07, 01:47 PM	Do your players want to play evil characters or anti-heroes? You don't have to be evil to be an anti-hero, you know. ;) If they want to actually play an evil campaign, it might be more fun instead of having the battles be evil vs evil to instead have them face off against what might typically be their allies in a "hero-aligned" campaign. Put them in as Zhent Agents and have them working to undermine, capture, torture and kill Harpers. Create some plot for them to undermine Daggerdale and ultimately deliver the city into the hands of a puppet Zhent ruler or something. That allows you to avoid railroading and might be more interesting. They want to be evil anti heroes, actually. Movers and shakers in the world that change it for their personal gain, and any cause they might serve, charities and Christmas bedamned. All without attracting the wrath of Elminster or Drizzt, because well....that's boring. I like the idea of overthrowing a small area for Zhentarim control. After this Cyricist adventure I had hooks for them to: investigate/barter with the Red Wizards of Thay in Mulmaster for a slave trade/magic item deal hire on with a mercenary force that's currently clearing out the elves in the High Forest be recalled to Zhentil Keep to help quell an attempted coup on Fzoul by what's left of the nobility in the city. carry out a mission for a green dragon (the kobold in the party is a dragon shaman) that will probably involve killing a metallic dragon defend themselves from overzealous bounty hunters who are trying to capture the bugbear fighter, who has a price on his head. This hook's going to keep popping up randomly due to bounty posters and the long arm of the law. I really don't have a direction for them as of this moment, I just want them to have fun. After a few weeks of play I'm sure an overriding goal or cause will show up, and give me a path to develop. If not, I'll run them through the meatgrinder that is City of the Spider Queen
Meldread 09-23-07, 02:54 PM	Well the good news is depending on what date you set the Campaign Elminster should be out of the picture, and therefore not a threat to your party. The Zhents are on the rise as well, and this in turn provides your group with some interesting possibilities. What I would do is try and think of a way to tie them all together. Since you have two Banites, one being a Cleric, connecting them to the Zhents seems like the easiest route to go with. From there it isn't overly difficult to tie the green dragon to the Zhents one way or another. Either the Zhents send the group to the green dragon by wanting the dragon to be in their debt, or they are in debt to the dragon, or possibly even the dragon has somehow found itself working with the Zhents are all possibilities. You can tie the fighter's problems with the law into getting the Harpers involved when they find out he's working with the Zhents. Personally, I think it would be fun to have a game with action, cloak and dagger and political intrigue - all of which lends itself well to furthering the groups personal gain. One of the things that I think you need to keep in mind though is that running an evil campaign is different from running a good aligned campaign. In your example you talked of using Randal Morn as somewhat of a "bully" to intimidate the PC's into dealing with a problem. Yet, being evil their reactions might shock you. Depending on the type of character's they are playing the reactions may range from attempting to kill him, to kill his family, to running way, to poisoning him, to lying and saying they'd do it and then just leaving, to doing it and then seeking revenge later. Normally when you run a "hero-centric" campaign there is a general agreement that things like murder are wrong. Yet there are no such inhibitions when dealing with evil-aligned PC's. There is no real pressure to keep their word, and being threatened or intimidated will always illicit a negative reaction regardless of alignment. Although they might prefer to stay within the law, one of them apparently is already on the wrong side of it, so there is little reason why they would even take his threat seriously. There is no reason they would not lie and then just walk away, possibly even after sending a tip to the enemy to let them know what was up. If I was going to run the game the first session I would use as a "get to know your character and the other characters" session. That first session is really about getting to know your character and the other characters of the group. I would have key NPC's of the town mapped out. I'd have ready made plot hooks which I would seed around. I'd pretty much drop the players in, have a ready made contact with at least one or more of the PC's - most likely a Zhent Agent - and sit back and see what they do. I'd occasionally try and throw subtle plot hooks at them to see if they bite, and if they don't I'll be a little less subtle. I would spend that session watching how the group works together. How I can weave an interesting story around the characters involved as well as to see how they interact with the world around them. Most likely, they will create an adventure themselves without me having to do too much work and I can kind of let things evolve from that point forward.