Starting from Scratch [Archive] - Wizards Community

Starting from Scratch [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Highlander316
03-10-04, 12:40 AM my players and i have bled every last ounce out of 2nd Edition we possible could, and FINALLY decided to switch to 3.5. So as four 3.5 virgins, I would like some feedback for character ideas for these guys. We've all played a lot of different characters in the past, and only having 3 charcters leaves a lot of options. So any suggestions for some characters to play for some 3.5 newbies would be cool.

I've never DMed or played in a FR campaign before, so i'm starting out in Baldur's Gate (i've played every BG computer/PS2 game and it's my most familiar area in the realms). Would all be first level, but any ideas are always welcomed.
madoule
03-10-04, 12:49 AM Ah... fresh meat.

J/k <smile>

Well, with 3.5 basically, you can throw away any and EVER possible character conception out the window. Why? becuase you no longer need the auwfly high stats to play ANY type of character you want. Have an Orc palidin with like a 12 charisma. Sure knock your boots off. Have a 8 dex theif? Not a problem.
Also, really itchin to play that half elf half medusa deamon that has lyconthropy? by all mean make it.
basically, sure you may have played every single character type in 2nd edition, and now, you can play ones that you have only dreamed of! <smile> hope that helps.

Me, I buy minatures, paint them up and come up with a story of who and why they are, and give them to the players, and then play that.
Boz Shulun
03-10-04, 01:38 PM The diversity of the game has greatly changed with 3rd Edition (and 3.5 to be sure), true. But I would warn you about getting too weird in the beginning. As experienced players and DM, I’m sure you would have no problem adapting. The race/class combinations alone are a good change to get used to before you delve into templates and the other rule variants (see Unearthed Arcana).

I would encourage (never demand) that my players play ‘normal’ characters in the beginning. As a DM, introduce the funky stuff as NPCs. That would expose the players to the wonders that 3.5 give without unbalancing your campaign.
Dirk_Nightbreese
03-10-04, 01:55 PM I'd have to agree with Boz, if you're starting out for the first time, just get familiar with the system and rules.

For three players, I'd suggest one as a fighter, one as a cleric, one as a rouge who will multi-class as a sorceror or wizard.
Or even have the fighter multiclass as a rouge and have the other player choose one the magic classes.

Obviously one can substitute any of those classes for the varients like them,

Druid/Bard= Cleric

Bard=Rouge (though a rouge really is a must in a party)

Ranger/Paladin/Barbar=Ftr

Anyway, D20 is really easy to learn and use so you guys should have a lot of fun.

I'd suggest having the PCs go to an abandoned ruin in a forrest near Baulder's Gate.

Hope that helps

~Dirk
Cunning Linguist
03-10-04, 01:58 PM To show the PC's the versitility of 3.5, give the creatures class levels.. a Troll Monk, a Illithid Fighter and so on. (one of the best things to come with 3.ed)
Also try to make less powerful creatures more powerful with levels, so that even a goblin might be a problem at 11 level.

Strange creatures with Templates can also be fun.
Highlander316
03-10-04, 06:40 PM I think I would like to have some basic characters to start, then if the players want to branch out to other, more involved paths, more power to them. But ultimately, I do leave it up to the players to decide what they want to play.

I'm thinking of using the "Burning Plague" adventure from Wizards as a kick-off. Will probably set the scene in Nashkel next to the Cloudpeak Mts. It seems like a decent starter. We'll just have to see what heroes my players and I have conjured up when we start.
Crispus_Lyons
03-10-04, 06:59 PM When I first started playing in 3.0, which admittedly I bought the first day each book came out, I ran the first two published adventures 'The Sunless Citadel' and 'The Forge of Fury'. Both of which I feel showed the highlights of the new system and offered some amusing characters and situations for quality role playing (Go Meepo!) as well interesting combat situations. (The infamous rope bridge that killed the paladin) I also purchased the Speaker in Dreams and the Standing Stone, which were the next two in the series which I didn't care as much for, but the first two are solid gold.

I re-wrote the story and based it in an entirely different campaign setting, but the essence was still there. IMHO, they are great starter adventures.

Above all, Highlander 316, the new system will leave you wondering how in the heck you ever actually played in 2nd Ed. Welcome aboard!

~Crispus Lyons
SALDAR
03-10-04, 10:32 PM I'll warn you that with all the options available it may seem overwhelming at first. Just keep calm and play a little with basic classes and monsters to learn the rules. The 3.5 core books do a very good job with rules that can cover most situations, much better than previous editions. I'll also warn you that the system tends to lean towards combat situations much more than previous editions as well. Don't rely too much on earlier edition play experience as the game mechanics are much different and not compatable.

The website has a series of articles called Rules of the Game that may be of some use, although they only cover sneak attacks and stacking bonuses so far. I hope future installments are as well written.

Now, after all that, welcome to a whole world. Remember to have fun.
Highlander316
03-11-04, 12:34 AM Well, tonight we finally ended our 2E campaign (i'll put all those books to rest) and started talking about 3.5. Don't exactly know what we'll have on our hands yet. my one buddy definately wants to be a Sorcerer or a Wizard. My wife doesn't know what she wants to play, but she may be leaning towards an all out Fighter (the last campaign we ran, none of them had ranged weapons...so i think that last statement speaks for itself. and no one ever thought of that at character creation). And my other buddy might tackle a Ranger or a Rogue (he's only EVER played wizards, so this should be interesting). Youre suggestions so far have been great, and if there is anything else, we are always open to more ideas.
Pystian
03-11-04, 06:02 AM 3.5 rules are, of course, different from 2nd edition rules, but in so many ways they're so much simpler. I can't imagine an experienced group of 2nd edition players have any trouble at all adapting 3.5.

That said, I'd still start with the 3 core rule books. Make sure you get all the kinks out before you really start messin' around.
Dirk_Nightbreese
03-11-04, 11:19 AM First off, I'd have to totally agree with Mr. Lyons, for those first two adventures are hotness. Our Monk amazingly wrestled (grappled) the baddy at the end of Forge of Fury while the rest of us pounded it to sludge and was forever after remembered in story and song.

But anyway, I've read the Burning Plauge mod and I think it's a great starter for a new campaign, especially with new players. I think Rangers are always good to have around, but shouldn't take the place of Rouges. I've played with a number of folks who have multi-classed Ranger's with rouges or whatever (indeed my shadowy reflection, Gladius Duskwind, was such a person) and that works out nice.

Your third PC should REALLY be a healer though, it's totally needed, especially at lower lvls, it sounds like your third player wants to be a Fighter though, so I'd suggest a Paladin for at least a little bit of healing power.

Anyway, good luck with your game,

~Dirk
Lashan
03-11-04, 06:21 PM If you have a character that wants to be a straight out fighter, you will find that things have gotten a LOT more interesting for fighters in 3E. The number of feats that they get makes them more interestin then in 2E. No longer are you only allowed to express your individuality with what weapon you use.

If you want to show how amazing the new SKILLS are in the game, have someone take a bard or a rogue. Bards are no longer terrible to use, though are not the best for dungeon delving in a small party. Rogues get many skills and are very fun to play with. A rogue/ranger would work, as well, but put the first level in Rogue, as you get more skill points that way.

Another way to create a character is to figure out what that CHARACTER is like before you pick the class. I've found that you can do so much with 3E, that overall ideas of what the person is like are more important.
Highlander316
03-12-04, 10:03 PM what do you think about a Kobold Sorcerer for a character? I myself don't know why a player wants to play one, but if he wants to, good for him. I just forsee a mess of communication problems, not so much with the party (i would assume at least, they could understand him), but with encounters in villages, taverns, etc. This player wants to be a spellcaster, but wants to basically play a weakling. I suggested perhaps a halfling or a gnome. He can choose to muff his scores if he wants a weakling, but at least this would give him a little more range with talking to the innkeeper.

Ultimately, he can play whatever he wants, and I can see some potential here, but I would just like some of your thoughts if you want to stab at this one. But I have to admit, I never in my life thought I would hear a player utter the words "I'd like to play a kobold"
Highlander316
03-14-04, 11:58 PM open up your thinking caps because have I got one for you all. I need some help with my wife's character here. She wants to be a Leonal, one of those guardians of Elysium, but I can't have her running around with mega-heavenly power, but she really wants to play one. so unless i want to do the dishes myself for the rest of eternity, i better come up with an explanation for her existance in the Western Heartlands. any suggestions?

here are my objectives

1. tone it down...A LOT
2. make a story actually work for the character
3. figure out what exactly her character class(es) should be

between this and the kobold sorcerer...i hope my 3rd and final player at least plays something that could walk down the streets of Baldur's Gate and people not say "hey, is that a walking lion?" or "look a kobold...let's kill it"
Straploknight
03-15-04, 01:23 AM Originally posted by Highlander316
open up your thinking caps because have I got one for you all. I need some help with my wife's character here. She wants to be a Leonal, one of those guardians of Elysium

You can develop the Leonal with class levels for racial abilities.

However the entry for level adjustment is "-'" which I read to mean "not suggested for use as a player character"

right off the bat, the leonal's ECL (effective character level) is +12 due to hit dice alone. I imagine after all is said and done a leonal Pc would be an epic level PC befire gaining any class levels

It might be better if you instead used an aasimar for the base creature then added some basic leonal traits (like an aasimar with a weretiger template)
Monsoon28
03-15-04, 08:13 AM The kobold should be cool! And the Sorcerer part is great for something different from 2ED. Play the situation to the fullest (some people won't sell to him, overcharge, sneer...)

But in a land where Half-Orcs and Tiefling are also walking the streets, a kobold should be allowed so long as he appears civilized.

As for you wife's Leonal...Check with Savage Species, unfortunately I don't have it but it deals allot with starting a creature at 1st level and then incorporating levels of creature class instead of Character class. This means that your wife's Leonal wouldn't have all her spell-like abilities, all the attribute bonuses etc...and as she goes up in levels she can choose to take a class from the PHB like Paladin or take a level in her creature type making her 'more' Leonal.

But in the end I'll have to agree with using the Aasimar and taking on leonal traits. The Leonal as a straight creature is pretty much Epic.

Hope that helps a little...

Btw the first adventure I ran in FR 3.x was Burning Plague as well, just South East of Baldur's near the Wood of Sharp Teeth. Could be interesting as their were Kobold in that adventure as I recall ;) maybe the sorcerer will be able to talk his way past them?

Cheers,
Highlander316
03-15-04, 11:17 AM The more I think about it, the more I start to like the kobold sorcerer. This player has been a lot of different classes in the past, but the majority has been the front-line fighter who deals as much damage as he can take. but this time around he wanted to play a weaker spellcaster.

As for the Leonal...

I was going to suggest taking a barbarian, using natural attacks and only taking feats ands skills that were found with the leonal. Role regular scores, with a + modifier to strength and dex. Substitute Rage for Roar (as she went up in levels, her roar would do more damage and more devastating effects until it got to the leonal in the monster manual). Giver her spell abilities as they would come for a spellcaster (ie, gets fireball at 5th level, etc.) She would be proficient with weapons and armor as a barbarian, but she has expressed only using natural attacks (claw 1d6 + Str, bite 1d8 + 1/2 Str). She would still get some Barbarian feats and abilities that are similar to the Leonal like uncanny dodge.

Next option would be to create a whole different character class for it (being first time in 3e, i'm not sure i want to do that)

With her dumbed down abilities, it might work. After all, she isn't in Elysiam, and that might have a hinderance on her abilites. Also was thinking of having her captured by wizards or something, put a heavy spell on her that dulled down her powers, but as she gained in level, that spell would start to fade, thus allowing her abilites to become more powerful.

Barbarian just seemed as the likely class for this character. your thoughts and criticism are always welcomed...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Highlander316 03-10-04, 12:40 AM	my players and i have bled every last ounce out of 2nd Edition we possible could, and FINALLY decided to switch to 3.5. So as four 3.5 virgins, I would like some feedback for character ideas for these guys. We've all played a lot of different characters in the past, and only having 3 charcters leaves a lot of options. So any suggestions for some characters to play for some 3.5 newbies would be cool. I've never DMed or played in a FR campaign before, so i'm starting out in Baldur's Gate (i've played every BG computer/PS2 game and it's my most familiar area in the realms). Would all be first level, but any ideas are always welcomed.
madoule 03-10-04, 12:49 AM	Ah... fresh meat. J/k <smile> Well, with 3.5 basically, you can throw away any and EVER possible character conception out the window. Why? becuase you no longer need the auwfly high stats to play ANY type of character you want. Have an Orc palidin with like a 12 charisma. Sure knock your boots off. Have a 8 dex theif? Not a problem. Also, really itchin to play that half elf half medusa deamon that has lyconthropy? by all mean make it. basically, sure you may have played every single character type in 2nd edition, and now, you can play ones that you have only dreamed of! <smile> hope that helps. Me, I buy minatures, paint them up and come up with a story of who and why they are, and give them to the players, and then play that.
Boz Shulun 03-10-04, 01:38 PM	The diversity of the game has greatly changed with 3rd Edition (and 3.5 to be sure), true. But I would warn you about getting too weird in the beginning. As experienced players and DM, I’m sure you would have no problem adapting. The race/class combinations alone are a good change to get used to before you delve into templates and the other rule variants (see Unearthed Arcana). I would encourage (never demand) that my players play ‘normal’ characters in the beginning. As a DM, introduce the funky stuff as NPCs. That would expose the players to the wonders that 3.5 give without unbalancing your campaign.
Dirk_Nightbreese 03-10-04, 01:55 PM	I'd have to agree with Boz, if you're starting out for the first time, just get familiar with the system and rules. For three players, I'd suggest one as a fighter, one as a cleric, one as a rouge who will multi-class as a sorceror or wizard. Or even have the fighter multiclass as a rouge and have the other player choose one the magic classes. Obviously one can substitute any of those classes for the varients like them, Druid/Bard= Cleric Bard=Rouge (though a rouge really is a must in a party) Ranger/Paladin/Barbar=Ftr Anyway, D20 is really easy to learn and use so you guys should have a lot of fun. I'd suggest having the PCs go to an abandoned ruin in a forrest near Baulder's Gate. Hope that helps ~Dirk
Cunning Linguist 03-10-04, 01:58 PM	To show the PC's the versitility of 3.5, give the creatures class levels.. a Troll Monk, a Illithid Fighter and so on. (one of the best things to come with 3.ed) Also try to make less powerful creatures more powerful with levels, so that even a goblin might be a problem at 11 level. Strange creatures with Templates can also be fun.
Highlander316 03-10-04, 06:40 PM	I think I would like to have some basic characters to start, then if the players want to branch out to other, more involved paths, more power to them. But ultimately, I do leave it up to the players to decide what they want to play. I'm thinking of using the "Burning Plague" adventure from Wizards as a kick-off. Will probably set the scene in Nashkel next to the Cloudpeak Mts. It seems like a decent starter. We'll just have to see what heroes my players and I have conjured up when we start.
Crispus_Lyons 03-10-04, 06:59 PM	When I first started playing in 3.0, which admittedly I bought the first day each book came out, I ran the first two published adventures 'The Sunless Citadel' and 'The Forge of Fury'. Both of which I feel showed the highlights of the new system and offered some amusing characters and situations for quality role playing (Go Meepo!) as well interesting combat situations. (The infamous rope bridge that killed the paladin) I also purchased the Speaker in Dreams and the Standing Stone, which were the next two in the series which I didn't care as much for, but the first two are solid gold. I re-wrote the story and based it in an entirely different campaign setting, but the essence was still there. IMHO, they are great starter adventures. Above all, Highlander 316, the new system will leave you wondering how in the heck you ever actually played in 2nd Ed. Welcome aboard! ~Crispus Lyons
SALDAR 03-10-04, 10:32 PM	I'll warn you that with all the options available it may seem overwhelming at first. Just keep calm and play a little with basic classes and monsters to learn the rules. The 3.5 core books do a very good job with rules that can cover most situations, much better than previous editions. I'll also warn you that the system tends to lean towards combat situations much more than previous editions as well. Don't rely too much on earlier edition play experience as the game mechanics are much different and not compatable. The website has a series of articles called Rules of the Game that may be of some use, although they only cover sneak attacks and stacking bonuses so far. I hope future installments are as well written. Now, after all that, welcome to a whole world. Remember to have fun.
Highlander316 03-11-04, 12:34 AM	Well, tonight we finally ended our 2E campaign (i'll put all those books to rest) and started talking about 3.5. Don't exactly know what we'll have on our hands yet. my one buddy definately wants to be a Sorcerer or a Wizard. My wife doesn't know what she wants to play, but she may be leaning towards an all out Fighter (the last campaign we ran, none of them had ranged weapons...so i think that last statement speaks for itself. and no one ever thought of that at character creation). And my other buddy might tackle a Ranger or a Rogue (he's only EVER played wizards, so this should be interesting). Youre suggestions so far have been great, and if there is anything else, we are always open to more ideas.
Pystian 03-11-04, 06:02 AM	3.5 rules are, of course, different from 2nd edition rules, but in so many ways they're so much simpler. I can't imagine an experienced group of 2nd edition players have any trouble at all adapting 3.5. That said, I'd still start with the 3 core rule books. Make sure you get all the kinks out before you really start messin' around.
Dirk_Nightbreese 03-11-04, 11:19 AM	First off, I'd have to totally agree with Mr. Lyons, for those first two adventures are hotness. Our Monk amazingly wrestled (grappled) the baddy at the end of Forge of Fury while the rest of us pounded it to sludge and was forever after remembered in story and song. But anyway, I've read the Burning Plauge mod and I think it's a great starter for a new campaign, especially with new players. I think Rangers are always good to have around, but shouldn't take the place of Rouges. I've played with a number of folks who have multi-classed Ranger's with rouges or whatever (indeed my shadowy reflection, Gladius Duskwind, was such a person) and that works out nice. Your third PC should REALLY be a healer though, it's totally needed, especially at lower lvls, it sounds like your third player wants to be a Fighter though, so I'd suggest a Paladin for at least a little bit of healing power. Anyway, good luck with your game, ~Dirk
Lashan 03-11-04, 06:21 PM	If you have a character that wants to be a straight out fighter, you will find that things have gotten a LOT more interesting for fighters in 3E. The number of feats that they get makes them more interestin then in 2E. No longer are you only allowed to express your individuality with what weapon you use. If you want to show how amazing the new SKILLS are in the game, have someone take a bard or a rogue. Bards are no longer terrible to use, though are not the best for dungeon delving in a small party. Rogues get many skills and are very fun to play with. A rogue/ranger would work, as well, but put the first level in Rogue, as you get more skill points that way. Another way to create a character is to figure out what that CHARACTER is like before you pick the class. I've found that you can do so much with 3E, that overall ideas of what the person is like are more important.
Highlander316 03-12-04, 10:03 PM	what do you think about a Kobold Sorcerer for a character? I myself don't know why a player wants to play one, but if he wants to, good for him. I just forsee a mess of communication problems, not so much with the party (i would assume at least, they could understand him), but with encounters in villages, taverns, etc. This player wants to be a spellcaster, but wants to basically play a weakling. I suggested perhaps a halfling or a gnome. He can choose to muff his scores if he wants a weakling, but at least this would give him a little more range with talking to the innkeeper. Ultimately, he can play whatever he wants, and I can see some potential here, but I would just like some of your thoughts if you want to stab at this one. But I have to admit, I never in my life thought I would hear a player utter the words "I'd like to play a kobold"
Highlander316 03-14-04, 11:58 PM	open up your thinking caps because have I got one for you all. I need some help with my wife's character here. She wants to be a Leonal, one of those guardians of Elysium, but I can't have her running around with mega-heavenly power, but she really wants to play one. so unless i want to do the dishes myself for the rest of eternity, i better come up with an explanation for her existance in the Western Heartlands. any suggestions? here are my objectives 1. tone it down...A LOT 2. make a story actually work for the character 3. figure out what exactly her character class(es) should be between this and the kobold sorcerer...i hope my 3rd and final player at least plays something that could walk down the streets of Baldur's Gate and people not say "hey, is that a walking lion?" or "look a kobold...let's kill it"
Straploknight 03-15-04, 01:23 AM	Originally posted by Highlander316 open up your thinking caps because have I got one for you all. I need some help with my wife's character here. She wants to be a Leonal, one of those guardians of Elysium You can develop the Leonal with class levels for racial abilities. However the entry for level adjustment is "-'" which I read to mean "not suggested for use as a player character" right off the bat, the leonal's ECL (effective character level) is +12 due to hit dice alone. I imagine after all is said and done a leonal Pc would be an epic level PC befire gaining any class levels It might be better if you instead used an aasimar for the base creature then added some basic leonal traits (like an aasimar with a weretiger template)
Monsoon28 03-15-04, 08:13 AM	The kobold should be cool! And the Sorcerer part is great for something different from 2ED. Play the situation to the fullest (some people won't sell to him, overcharge, sneer...) But in a land where Half-Orcs and Tiefling are also walking the streets, a kobold should be allowed so long as he appears civilized. As for you wife's Leonal...Check with Savage Species, unfortunately I don't have it but it deals allot with starting a creature at 1st level and then incorporating levels of creature class instead of Character class. This means that your wife's Leonal wouldn't have all her spell-like abilities, all the attribute bonuses etc...and as she goes up in levels she can choose to take a class from the PHB like Paladin or take a level in her creature type making her 'more' Leonal. But in the end I'll have to agree with using the Aasimar and taking on leonal traits. The Leonal as a straight creature is pretty much Epic. Hope that helps a little... Btw the first adventure I ran in FR 3.x was Burning Plague as well, just South East of Baldur's near the Wood of Sharp Teeth. Could be interesting as their were Kobold in that adventure as I recall ;) maybe the sorcerer will be able to talk his way past them? Cheers,
Highlander316 03-15-04, 11:17 AM	The more I think about it, the more I start to like the kobold sorcerer. This player has been a lot of different classes in the past, but the majority has been the front-line fighter who deals as much damage as he can take. but this time around he wanted to play a weaker spellcaster. As for the Leonal... I was going to suggest taking a barbarian, using natural attacks and only taking feats ands skills that were found with the leonal. Role regular scores, with a + modifier to strength and dex. Substitute Rage for Roar (as she went up in levels, her roar would do more damage and more devastating effects until it got to the leonal in the monster manual). Giver her spell abilities as they would come for a spellcaster (ie, gets fireball at 5th level, etc.) She would be proficient with weapons and armor as a barbarian, but she has expressed only using natural attacks (claw 1d6 + Str, bite 1d8 + 1/2 Str). She would still get some Barbarian feats and abilities that are similar to the Leonal like uncanny dodge. Next option would be to create a whole different character class for it (being first time in 3e, i'm not sure i want to do that) With her dumbed down abilities, it might work. After all, she isn't in Elysiam, and that might have a hinderance on her abilites. Also was thinking of having her captured by wizards or something, put a heavy spell on her that dulled down her powers, but as she gained in level, that spell would start to fade, thus allowing her abilites to become more powerful. Barbarian just seemed as the likely class for this character. your thoughts and criticism are always welcomed...