Stupidest creature in the Realms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Stupidest creature in the Realms [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix
09-01-03, 01:05 AM Asking everyone here, What is the stupidest/most pointless creature in the realms?
For me it would have to be the Turrasque
and also the "good lich"(MoF I think)
:88E: :devil: :turkey: :behold:
Anthraxx The Lich
09-01-03, 01:17 AM haha this will bring alot out.....lol...i would agree with the good liches, except you need to have something to combat evil ones, mortals of the same degree will have no chance.....but to answer the stupidest creature i think the kobold, what a waste!!
Dungeon Mastr
09-01-03, 02:13 AM Turrasque are indeed the worst idea ever. A good undead wizard with his flesh peeling off of his bones? Gimme a break. In my campaign, they don't even exist. :P

Those crawling hands are fairly stupid...
Savras
09-01-03, 02:44 AM I like kobolds and love good liches.

The Tarrasque is vexing.

But I really dislike song dragons- why only female???

Savras
The 'Liss
09-01-03, 02:59 AM Stupidest creatures?

Well, there are some good liches that couldn't help it..the ones created by Karsus..in Netheril..I doubt they're still around...

The Tarassque is stupid..hard core stupid..had a campaign where they dropped it into another plane...Ravenloft, I believe...funny as hell...

Reminds me of the Horrors of Earthdawn

I can say I hate that the MM insists all gnomes are neutral..that sort of thing...elves are neutral good...drow are evil...

they should have put "varies"
Mr. Wilson
09-01-03, 03:23 AM Originally posted by Anthraxx The Lich
but to answer the stupidest creature i think the kobold, what a waste!!

I hope and pray you are kidding. If not, then you obviously haven't met my players worse Nightmare, a band of kobolds in a dungeon.

Nothing like a bunch of 5th level rogue kobolds to knock down a parties ego.

Now, as for the worst monster, I honestly can't think of one that I couldn't come up with a plausible reason to have attack a group. Possibly the big T, but he shouldn't be up and moving on the Realms anyways, as some of the big names would take him down as soon as it raised it's ugly head.
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix
09-01-03, 03:47 AM I don't mind Kobolds much they are like a smaller, more ferral goblin. Driven more by animal thinking and less like humanoids than goblins.

I'd have to say that I really dislike the idea of owlbears though. What were they thinking? It's like they were watching Scooby Doo and thought "Hey......part owl, part bear....brilliant!"
Xante Flatnose
09-01-03, 03:59 AM zombies of course they are so so stupid that they do not know anything but fight.

I don`t think kobolds or goblins are stupid.Sometimes They can attack with irritating tactics like (shooting with crossbows while hiding behind a pile of crate etc.)
Conan
09-01-03, 11:17 AM It may not be "Realms" relevant per se but, I've gotta say the stupidest/most pointless creature that I have come across, had to be:

The Beholder that was guarding the BBEG's castle in D&D the movie.

I mean seriously! Here is a creature that has a genius level intelligence just floating around pointlessly. Then one of the "Hero" character's throws a stone and the Beholder goes, "Hey. What was that? Hmmm.. it sounded like a stone landing over there. Maybe I should go investigate.".

Yep. Sounds like an average genius intellect monster to me. :smirk:
Alac Luin
09-01-03, 02:14 PM How about those 3 leged, 3 armed and just a head things near the halfling homeland? Tall Mouthers or something like that. Man, I couldent picture useing those things.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG82.jpg
E'tii'stil Shadowsil
09-02-03, 01:21 AM Ah... 'stupidest" as in intelligence quotient? :angel:
Gez
09-02-03, 05:46 AM Kobolds and Tarrasques are not exclusive to the Realms. And although I find the Tarrasque silly (I would have prefered a truer to myth Tarasque -- note, only one R -- over the immunityball that is the Tarrasque -- two R); I rather like Kobolds.

Remember, by the way, that bugbears, goblins, hobgoblins, and kobolds are as stupid, idiot, retarded and dumb as human, elves, dwarves, halflings and gnomes. Same Int score, same Wis score.

Orcs on the other hand...

The Realms abound in goofy creatures. Here are some of those I find really silly:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG15.jpg Alaghi (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG15.jpg): For when you want a race of Chewbaccas that really can't be played because they've got so much HD their ECL skyrockets. What was that part about the new 3rd edition allowing to give class level to monsters so that it was now unecessary to fill monster compendiums with 30 HD kobolds for high-level parties? I guess it was lost. Alaghi could have been a 2 HD race and would have been fine.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG33a.jpg Deepspawn (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG33a.jpg): See, it's a round ball with tentacles, just like, well, beholders and malaugrym and stuff like that, but it's also a monster generator, so that we can explain how those dungeon ecologies work. It's the fantasy equivalent of junk food restaurants, and it creates lots of baddies for players to vigourously hack off.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG53.jpg Dekanter Goblin (http://tubes.ominix.com/art/a/food/coffee-decanter-jungle-print.jpg): The creatures are fine by themselves, their story too, all seems OK... Except the name. A decanter goblin? Ain't that some li'l mischievious fairies that play tricks like making the icecubes melt too fast or making a spider fall in our glasses ?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG58b.jpg Gulguthydra (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG58b.jpg): This creature is the offspring of an otyugh and a hydra. "You see, when a hydra and an otyugh loves each other very much, well, you get... A truly awful visual."

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG65.jpg Malaugrym (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG65.jpg): So, we have yet another variant doppelganger, but this time their real form is a big floating sphere with eyes and tentacles! Imagine the Hentai potential!

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG70.jpg Phaerimm (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG70.jpg) Nothing inspire awe and fear as much as a flying green windsock with little clawed arms and spikey teeth.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG82.jpg Tall Mouther (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG82.jpg) So, it's a big ape head, with really big jaws, and it's got three arms and three legs, and it eats halflings, and it has no belly to put eaten halflings in. Guess they're stuck in the brain space.
Tamsar
09-02-03, 08:32 AM I see all the previous monsters and raise you one "Flumph". Show me the money!!!!
kedi
09-02-03, 09:59 AM well, the good lich is an elf who lives forever to protect elven lore or his family, a bodyguard some sort of.

and stupidiest creature is asabi. I hate em,

and half orcs,
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix
09-02-03, 10:44 AM Originally posted by E'tii'stil Shadowsil
Ah... 'stupidest" as in intelligence quotient? :angel:
No, stupid meaning WHAT WHERE THOSE PEOPLE AT WotC THINKING?! YOU MEAN THEY PAID SOME ONE TO COME UP WITH THIS?!:mad:
kradak
09-02-03, 11:12 AM P.174 of the Fiend folio, a medium sized flying shark, come on...
Domni Dalrose
09-02-03, 11:23 AM Adventurers :)
lordasrael
09-02-03, 02:46 PM Two words. Gelatinous. Cube.
Archmage
09-02-03, 02:51 PM Slaadi.
primemover003
09-02-03, 08:16 PM I think the Sslasrath from the FF (your medium sized flying shark) was a terrible iluustration of a really nasty monster from the Plane of Carceri. The original illustration by Tony Diterlizzi is a lot better then the shark with wings.

The magic missle slinging Will o Wisps (Niths?) are pretty lame. Meazels also suck the business end of a Peryton.
Triton
09-02-03, 08:49 PM Tasloi, just what we need, another 1/2 CR monster. No different than another goblin, kobold, or gibberling.
And pretty much every other Oriental Adventures monster.
To many Spirit Centipedes and not enough Dokufu.:turkey:
Reefy
09-02-03, 08:50 PM Originally posted by lordasrael
Two words. Gelatinous. Cube.

I will defend gelatinous cubes. They are the most popular monster of all time with our group.
Saasiel
09-03-03, 01:27 AM Originally posted by Paladin_of_the_Phoenix
No, stupid meaning WHAT WHERE THOSE PEOPLE AT WotC THINKING?! YOU MEAN THEY PAID SOME ONE TO COME UP WITH THIS?!:mad:

Well, they're abusing our money...
Beldin
09-03-03, 05:58 AM Drow
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix
09-03-03, 12:12 PM Hey drow are cool. Now, those wing elves are lame. I mean you need god elves, and you need nutral elves and I think it fits to have a group of evil elves. But WINGED ELVES? I also think Aquatic elves are a bit of a strech.....
Mr. FIXIT
09-03-03, 02:39 PM The stupidest monsters in all of Faerūn is of course, the Harpers! A bunch of meddling, singing half elves...

No, of course, it has to be the SU-monster (does it even exist anymore?).
Reefy
09-03-03, 07:17 PM This thread amuses me. Gez's post was great - I love a good rant.
Gez
09-04-03, 06:35 AM Originally posted by Mr. FIXIT
No, of course, it has to be the SU-monster (does it even exist anymore?).

The su-monster is found only in the Psionics Handbook web-enhancement. The other monsters there, thri-kreen and gem dragons, have since been republished (and modified slightly) in the MM2; but not the su-monster.

The first thought-eater was kinda lame, being platypus-shaped and all, and the star-snouted brain mole was goofy as well.

I concentrated on monsters specific to the Realms, hence those coming from Monsters of Faerūn. Outside that domain, well, there are so much goofy creatures in (A)D&D's history... Flumph? Yeah, they're goofy. But what about the Tirapheg? Or the Ubue? Look at the owlbear or the carrion crawler. Or take a peek on those accepted classics, beholders and mind-flayers -- aren't them goofy looking? This don't prevent them from being popular classics and essential parts of D&D, but they're really goofy.

It's a weird alchemy. Sometimes, a ridiculously shaped monster becomes a true classic with lots of fans, but usually it fails and the creature is ridiculed. For your monster to be successful, here are some rough guidelines. They are not sufficient by themselves, but they seem to help:
1° Go hentai! Tentacles are good for you, everyone love tentacles. Besides, it's fun to be able to severe those tentacles one at a time, don't forget to plane rules for that (see ropers, for example, or beholders in AD&D2).
2° Make them bad! This was one failure of the flumph, noone's interested in a lawful weird good monster. Lawful evil seems the better alignment for monsters, as this gives them a good excuse to have lots of lackeys.
3° Make them powerful and cunning! Your monster need to be one of the guardians at the end of the level. Nothing like a dramatic, climactic, dangerous fight to inspire respect in players for your creature. This was another failing of the flumph.
4° Don't give them special weaknesses! Yet another failing of the flumph. A weakness may be good for story purpose (see vampires), but for gaming, it's not fun; because either the players know it and abuse it, ruining the challenge; or they don't know it and you could as well not have that weakness in the first place.
5° Don't make it too tough! Reverse of previous point. A monster that seems to be immune to everything (huge DR, regeneration, energy immunity, huge SR, spell reflection, etc.) is just frustrating and annoying. PC will die stupidly or flee and let a hypothetic Deus ex-Machina take care of the beast; and players will be bored. This is a failing of the Tarrasque.
Frederyck
09-04-03, 06:53 AM I know we've already established that Kobolds aren't part of the Realms-only mythology, but I have to chip in a few things about them.

Monsters that are inherently based on actual mythological beasties shouldn't be put down as "stupid" (as in "what the hell were they thinking..."-stupid! :) ... as people actually have believed in their wickedness!

Kobolds, for instance are part of the lore and mythology of miners, even down to their bluish skin. Kobold is just another, older (and German if memory serves) way of saying Cobalt; a blue-ish element often found in iron mines. (And mined in its own right as well nowadays)
Darkmistress
09-04-03, 07:28 AM Can someone tell me: which came into being first, HP Lovecraft's Cthulhu or illithids? Because, if Lovecraft came up with the concept first, you can't really blame the D&D folk (Gygax?)...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix 09-01-03, 01:05 AM	Asking everyone here, What is the stupidest/most pointless creature in the realms? For me it would have to be the Turrasque and also the "good lich"(MoF I think) :88E: :devil: :turkey: :behold:
Anthraxx The Lich 09-01-03, 01:17 AM	haha this will bring alot out.....lol...i would agree with the good liches, except you need to have something to combat evil ones, mortals of the same degree will have no chance.....but to answer the stupidest creature i think the kobold, what a waste!!
Dungeon Mastr 09-01-03, 02:13 AM	Turrasque are indeed the worst idea ever. A good undead wizard with his flesh peeling off of his bones? Gimme a break. In my campaign, they don't even exist. :P Those crawling hands are fairly stupid...
Savras 09-01-03, 02:44 AM	I like kobolds and love good liches. The Tarrasque is vexing. But I really dislike song dragons- why only female??? Savras
The 'Liss 09-01-03, 02:59 AM	Stupidest creatures? Well, there are some good liches that couldn't help it..the ones created by Karsus..in Netheril..I doubt they're still around... The Tarassque is stupid..hard core stupid..had a campaign where they dropped it into another plane...Ravenloft, I believe...funny as hell... Reminds me of the Horrors of Earthdawn I can say I hate that the MM insists all gnomes are neutral..that sort of thing...elves are neutral good...drow are evil... they should have put "varies"
Mr. Wilson 09-01-03, 03:23 AM	Originally posted by Anthraxx The Lich but to answer the stupidest creature i think the kobold, what a waste!! I hope and pray you are kidding. If not, then you obviously haven't met my players worse Nightmare, a band of kobolds in a dungeon. Nothing like a bunch of 5th level rogue kobolds to knock down a parties ego. Now, as for the worst monster, I honestly can't think of one that I couldn't come up with a plausible reason to have attack a group. Possibly the big T, but he shouldn't be up and moving on the Realms anyways, as some of the big names would take him down as soon as it raised it's ugly head.
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix 09-01-03, 03:47 AM	I don't mind Kobolds much they are like a smaller, more ferral goblin. Driven more by animal thinking and less like humanoids than goblins. I'd have to say that I really dislike the idea of owlbears though. What were they thinking? It's like they were watching Scooby Doo and thought "Hey......part owl, part bear....brilliant!"
Xante Flatnose 09-01-03, 03:59 AM	zombies of course they are so so stupid that they do not know anything but fight. I don`t think kobolds or goblins are stupid.Sometimes They can attack with irritating tactics like (shooting with crossbows while hiding behind a pile of crate etc.)
Conan 09-01-03, 11:17 AM	It may not be "Realms" relevant per se but, I've gotta say the stupidest/most pointless creature that I have come across, had to be: The Beholder that was guarding the BBEG's castle in D&D the movie. I mean seriously! Here is a creature that has a genius level intelligence just floating around pointlessly. Then one of the "Hero" character's throws a stone and the Beholder goes, "Hey. What was that? Hmmm.. it sounded like a stone landing over there. Maybe I should go investigate.". Yep. Sounds like an average genius intellect monster to me. :smirk:
Alac Luin 09-01-03, 02:14 PM	How about those 3 leged, 3 armed and just a head things near the halfling homeland? Tall Mouthers or something like that. Man, I couldent picture useing those things. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG82.jpg
E'tii'stil Shadowsil 09-02-03, 01:21 AM	Ah... 'stupidest" as in intelligence quotient? :angel:
Gez 09-02-03, 05:46 AM	Kobolds and Tarrasques are not exclusive to the Realms. And although I find the Tarrasque silly (I would have prefered a truer to myth Tarasque -- note, only one R -- over the immunityball that is the Tarrasque -- two R); I rather like Kobolds. Remember, by the way, that bugbears, goblins, hobgoblins, and kobolds are as stupid, idiot, retarded and dumb as human, elves, dwarves, halflings and gnomes. Same Int score, same Wis score. Orcs on the other hand... The Realms abound in goofy creatures. Here are some of those I find really silly: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG15.jpg Alaghi (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG15.jpg): For when you want a race of Chewbaccas that really can't be played because they've got so much HD their ECL skyrockets. What was that part about the new 3rd edition allowing to give class level to monsters so that it was now unecessary to fill monster compendiums with 30 HD kobolds for high-level parties? I guess it was lost. Alaghi could have been a 2 HD race and would have been fine. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG33a.jpg Deepspawn (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG33a.jpg): See, it's a round ball with tentacles, just like, well, beholders and malaugrym and stuff like that, but it's also a monster generator, so that we can explain how those dungeon ecologies work. It's the fantasy equivalent of junk food restaurants, and it creates lots of baddies for players to vigourously hack off. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG53.jpg Dekanter Goblin (http://tubes.ominix.com/art/a/food/coffee-decanter-jungle-print.jpg): The creatures are fine by themselves, their story too, all seems OK... Except the name. A decanter goblin? Ain't that some li'l mischievious fairies that play tricks like making the icecubes melt too fast or making a spider fall in our glasses ? http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG58b.jpg Gulguthydra (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG58b.jpg): This creature is the offspring of an otyugh and a hydra. "You see, when a hydra and an otyugh loves each other very much, well, you get... A truly awful visual." http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG65.jpg Malaugrym (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG65.jpg): So, we have yet another variant doppelganger, but this time their real form is a big floating sphere with eyes and tentacles! Imagine the Hentai potential! http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG70.jpg Phaerimm (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG70.jpg) Nothing inspire awe and fear as much as a flying green windsock with little clawed arms and spikey teeth. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/tn_MonFaePG82.jpg Tall Mouther (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mof_gallery/MonFaePG82.jpg) So, it's a big ape head, with really big jaws, and it's got three arms and three legs, and it eats halflings, and it has no belly to put eaten halflings in. Guess they're stuck in the brain space.
Tamsar 09-02-03, 08:32 AM	I see all the previous monsters and raise you one "Flumph". Show me the money!!!!
kedi 09-02-03, 09:59 AM	well, the good lich is an elf who lives forever to protect elven lore or his family, a bodyguard some sort of. and stupidiest creature is asabi. I hate em, and half orcs,
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix 09-02-03, 10:44 AM	Originally posted by E'tii'stil Shadowsil Ah... 'stupidest" as in intelligence quotient? :angel: No, stupid meaning WHAT WHERE THOSE PEOPLE AT WotC THINKING?! YOU MEAN THEY PAID SOME ONE TO COME UP WITH THIS?!:mad:
kradak 09-02-03, 11:12 AM	P.174 of the Fiend folio, a medium sized flying shark, come on...
Domni Dalrose 09-02-03, 11:23 AM	Adventurers :)
lordasrael 09-02-03, 02:46 PM	Two words. Gelatinous. Cube.
Archmage 09-02-03, 02:51 PM	Slaadi.
primemover003 09-02-03, 08:16 PM	I think the Sslasrath from the FF (your medium sized flying shark) was a terrible iluustration of a really nasty monster from the Plane of Carceri. The original illustration by Tony Diterlizzi is a lot better then the shark with wings. The magic missle slinging Will o Wisps (Niths?) are pretty lame. Meazels also suck the business end of a Peryton.
Triton 09-02-03, 08:49 PM	Tasloi, just what we need, another 1/2 CR monster. No different than another goblin, kobold, or gibberling. And pretty much every other Oriental Adventures monster. To many Spirit Centipedes and not enough Dokufu.:turkey:
Reefy 09-02-03, 08:50 PM	Originally posted by lordasrael Two words. Gelatinous. Cube. I will defend gelatinous cubes. They are the most popular monster of all time with our group.
Saasiel 09-03-03, 01:27 AM	Originally posted by Paladin_of_the_Phoenix No, stupid meaning WHAT WHERE THOSE PEOPLE AT WotC THINKING?! YOU MEAN THEY PAID SOME ONE TO COME UP WITH THIS?!:mad: Well, they're abusing our money...
Beldin 09-03-03, 05:58 AM	Drow
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix 09-03-03, 12:12 PM	Hey drow are cool. Now, those wing elves are lame. I mean you need god elves, and you need nutral elves and I think it fits to have a group of evil elves. But WINGED ELVES? I also think Aquatic elves are a bit of a strech.....
Mr. FIXIT 09-03-03, 02:39 PM	The stupidest monsters in all of Faerūn is of course, the Harpers! A bunch of meddling, singing half elves... No, of course, it has to be the SU-monster (does it even exist anymore?).
Reefy 09-03-03, 07:17 PM	This thread amuses me. Gez's post was great - I love a good rant.
Gez 09-04-03, 06:35 AM	Originally posted by Mr. FIXIT No, of course, it has to be the SU-monster (does it even exist anymore?). The su-monster is found only in the Psionics Handbook web-enhancement. The other monsters there, thri-kreen and gem dragons, have since been republished (and modified slightly) in the MM2; but not the su-monster. The first thought-eater was kinda lame, being platypus-shaped and all, and the star-snouted brain mole was goofy as well. I concentrated on monsters specific to the Realms, hence those coming from Monsters of Faerūn. Outside that domain, well, there are so much goofy creatures in (A)D&D's history... Flumph? Yeah, they're goofy. But what about the Tirapheg? Or the Ubue? Look at the owlbear or the carrion crawler. Or take a peek on those accepted classics, beholders and mind-flayers -- aren't them goofy looking? This don't prevent them from being popular classics and essential parts of D&D, but they're really goofy. It's a weird alchemy. Sometimes, a ridiculously shaped monster becomes a true classic with lots of fans, but usually it fails and the creature is ridiculed. For your monster to be successful, here are some rough guidelines. They are not sufficient by themselves, but they seem to help: 1° Go hentai! Tentacles are good for you, everyone love tentacles. Besides, it's fun to be able to severe those tentacles one at a time, don't forget to plane rules for that (see ropers, for example, or beholders in AD&D2). 2° Make them bad! This was one failure of the flumph, noone's interested in a lawful weird good monster. Lawful evil seems the better alignment for monsters, as this gives them a good excuse to have lots of lackeys. 3° Make them powerful and cunning! Your monster need to be one of the guardians at the end of the level. Nothing like a dramatic, climactic, dangerous fight to inspire respect in players for your creature. This was another failing of the flumph. 4° Don't give them special weaknesses! Yet another failing of the flumph. A weakness may be good for story purpose (see vampires), but for gaming, it's not fun; because either the players know it and abuse it, ruining the challenge; or they don't know it and you could as well not have that weakness in the first place. 5° Don't make it too tough! Reverse of previous point. A monster that seems to be immune to everything (huge DR, regeneration, energy immunity, huge SR, spell reflection, etc.) is just frustrating and annoying. PC will die stupidly or flee and let a hypothetic Deus ex-Machina take care of the beast; and players will be bored. This is a failing of the Tarrasque.
Frederyck 09-04-03, 06:53 AM	I know we've already established that Kobolds aren't part of the Realms-only mythology, but I have to chip in a few things about them. Monsters that are inherently based on actual mythological beasties shouldn't be put down as "stupid" (as in "what the hell were they thinking..."-stupid! :) ... as people actually have believed in their wickedness! Kobolds, for instance are part of the lore and mythology of miners, even down to their bluish skin. Kobold is just another, older (and German if memory serves) way of saying Cobalt; a blue-ish element often found in iron mines. (And mined in its own right as well nowadays)
Darkmistress 09-04-03, 07:28 AM	Can someone tell me: which came into being first, HP Lovecraft's Cthulhu or illithids? Because, if Lovecraft came up with the concept first, you can't really blame the D&D folk (Gygax?)...