| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| karthac02-10-04, 01:00 PM | So I'm wondering how far along people think Faerun is by the standards of technology that we would recognize. Things built without magic, of course. And, do they call these things by the same names we do? I know they have smokepowder weapons, mostly like old muskets to us. I saw on another thread that there were even pistols. What about things like clocks? Or Plumbing (even if primitive)? Basic stuff. And, as importantly, how far does everyone think technology as we know it should be developed there? This is just an opinion thing, really. Anyone have any thoughts? |
| wingGodzilla02-10-04, 01:14 PM | I have talked about this with a friend of mine before. I belive that the more science there is the less magic there is. Not because the magic would not be there but the need for it would be less. Why would someone cast a spell to talk to someone far away if there was a telephone? I know that is not what you are really talking about, but the point is the same. The easier it is to do something without magic the more it would be done, and the things that only mages could do, could be done by everybody. |
| Kuje3102-10-04, 01:38 PM | Well they have printing presses (Volo uses one) in Waterdeep. They have water clocks (Neverwinter is known for these). |
| Amoun02-10-04, 05:17 PM | The way I see it Faerun is as technologically advanced as about the mid-renaissance. They have developed clocks, printing presses, gunpowder, they even have the steam engine, but remember that it is unlikely they will advance much farther than their current status. Gond is in control of all new inventions, so if he doesn't want want a certain item from being invented it just doesn't work... If his more dangerous counterpart was around (I cant recall her name right now) we could see more advanced technology... |
| Alac Luin02-11-04, 01:54 AM | Originally posted by wingGodzilla Why would someone cast a spell to talk to someone far away if there was a telephone? Not disagreeing here, but every time I see a thread here like this makes me wonder. Why would someone take years of their life to create a telephone, when they can just cast a spell to talk with someone? My point here is that most of the highly intelligent people that worked on furthering RL technology would very likely been wizards and learn to do things with magic and never bothered with creating stuff for the masses. But, to answer the main post, I'd say late renaissance. Glass is used, there are people wearing eye glasses, and I even think I heard read somewhere there were bi-focals. Indoor pluming does exist in some places, more often for outgoing then incoming. Some things are magic drivin, like running water from Decanter of Endless Water Another point, Gond works for Oghma, and Oghma likes the status quo. So technology will be very slow to take strong footholds on Faerun. |
| Arduin02-11-04, 05:00 AM | Because it takes year to become adept in the arts of magic? And because non-magic folk can use a telephone :) -Profit. |
| ender02-11-04, 05:23 AM | Original post by karthac: I know they have smokepowder weapons, mostly like old muskets to us. Actually the firearms are considerably more primitve than muskets. Arquebuses are slower, less accurate, and more dangerous (to the user!) than muskets. Just a quibble, but I'm a history geek after all. Orignal post by Kuje31: They have water clocks (Neverwinter is known for these). Don't the Gondies have mechanical clocks? I would be surprised if they didn't, considering their priests can make intelligent constructs. As for the magic vs. tech question, it seems as though they would be symbiotic. Wizards can do amazing things, but only after arduous training (as Arduin mentioned), and because even among brilliant people not everyone has aptitude for magic. Given the arms race effect that technology has had among us non-Weave-users on Earth, it seems inevitable that those without very much magic (or even just less relative to their rivals) would try to bridge the gap by grabbing as much tech as possible. Is it true that Gond likes that status quo? That seems odd for the deity of invention. I can't imagine any reason why a pro-SQ guy would introduce something as potentially destabilizing as firearms. |
| Alac Luin02-11-04, 10:32 AM | Originally posted by Arduin Because it takes year to become adept in the arts of magic? So, first we need to discuver the technology of using electrical impulses with magnits to translate into sound. Then we need to lay all that land line. Then we need to have hope that the person you are trying to reach is at home. it has taken almost 100 years to get the phones from where they started to where they are now. One year to learn the basics of magic seems a small price to pay. Originally posted by Arduin And because non-magic folk can use a telephone :) -Profit. Non- magic folk come to wizards to cast spells for them at pure profit, no additional overhead to maintain land lines and workers. Besides, it helps wizards maintain control in a sort, that way they know that they didn't give thier enimies a tool. Much of the tecnology (as phones) were implimented by the government, for government purposes, the ability to reach small towns by phone was seen as good for our government (sure they made money, but that paid for the implimentation) Say, in Corymer, they have the War wizards, and all those magic rings news is able to get to and from the remotest outpost without haveing to wory about an orc chopping down telephone poll. |
| Kuje3102-11-04, 01:12 PM | Originally posted by ender Don't the Gondies have mechanical clocks? I would be surprised if they didn't, considering their priests can make intelligent constructs. They might. :) I was just posting the info that I recalled from a quick flip through Aurora's catalog and from a few novels..... |
| Fredegar The White02-11-04, 01:26 PM | Well i have just have to pay my respects the Faerunius Sexpertius Kujeous 31ious and say that the whole Ak 47 crossbow wielding gnomes should receive an Elminster's Tactical ICBM Nuclear Missile and be wiped off the face of Faerun. Other gnomes should be left in peace! |
| Herr Doktor02-11-04, 02:01 PM | Dwarves are known for funtional plumbing, I think. At least in the Silver Marches regional supplement it notes that:A good series of dwarf-built cisterns, pumps, and piping ensure that the city has both flushed privies and ample fresh water both for drinking and gardening. |
| ender02-11-04, 04:33 PM | Original post by Alac Luin: So, first we need to discuver the technology of using electrical impulses with magnits to translate into sound. Then we need to lay all that land line. Then we need to have hope that the person you are trying to reach is at home. it has taken almost 100 years to get the phones from where they started to where they are now. One year to learn the basics of magic seems a small price to pay. The difference is that technology develops over time in an organic manner, while magic must be painstakingly learned from first principles by every single mage. Remember, the telephone (to use only one example, but the history of industry is full of such examples) was not invented by one guy working like mad. Magnetism was explored by chemists and physicists like Maxwell and Faraday (themselves building off of Neuton's principia, et al). The nature of electrical energy was discovered by dozens of scientists including Franklin, Volta, and Galvani. Their efforts are cumulative; what one learns, the entire scientific community learns, propelling the current state of understanding forward. Once the scientific framework is in place, then the infrastructure, as you indicated. Yes, this is difficult and expensive. But infrastructure is durable. After the 100 years you spend putting the system in place, it will still work (given sufficient maintenance). Whereas after 100 years the mage, and the mind that holds that stupendous amount of magical knowledge, will be dead and the task of relearning it will fall to a new generation. Non- magic folk come to wizards to cast spells for them at pure profit, no additional overhead to maintain land lines and workers. Except that this is extremely expensive: for all intents and purposes impossible for anyone but rich nobles. Telephones, to continue with the above example, are available to all--for the equivalent of silvers. Much of the tecnology (as phones) were implimented by the government, for government purposes, the ability to reach small towns by phone was seen as good for our government (sure they made money, but that paid for the implimentation) Say, in Corymer, they have the War wizards, and all those magic rings news is able to get to and from the remotest outpost without haveing to wory about an orc chopping down telephone poll. This is a good point. In my mind, however, this is a reason for governments to develop tech, not to ignore it. While infrastructure is durable, it is also fragile, which is why modern wars have revolved around objectives like securing airfields, bombing factories and train tracks, or destroying communications bunkers. If you rely on only one system then you are vulnerable when that system is weakened. If you have overlapping systems--magic and tech both--then it is that much more difficult for the enemy to cripple you. Imagine if WWII Germans could teleport troops rather than relying on their ragged railroads. Conversely, in a future Toril where Thayans have a chokehold on magic training and distribution all over the place, wouldn't it be nice to have a cell phone? :) |
| Roxlimn02-11-04, 04:54 PM | As far as I can tell, Faerunian tech is heavily magitech - technology that also incorporates magic. Mostly this is simple technological devices that mimic modern contrivances through magic but some "technological" devices are magical through and through - like the gnome inventor's Gondsman. Smokepowder itself is considered magical, so the divide between technology and magic would be very hard for a Faerunian character to distinguish. I wouldn't set the tech level at Late Renaissance either, since they never had thinking constructs at that age. More of a tentative medieval-modern meld that never quite gets there. |
| wingGodzilla02-11-04, 04:58 PM | The one true point I think we all can agree on is that if there is a growth in the tech world of Faerun, then as a reaction there must be a loss in the wolrd of magic. It's a action/reaction thing. Be it a telephone or whatever. Indeed there is a case that the most dangerest thing the world of Faerun as seen or will see is the growth of the tech world. Which by the way could be a good adventure for someone to try out. |
| ender02-11-04, 06:09 PM | Original post by wingGodzilla: The one true point I think we all can agree on is that if there is a growth in the tech world of Faerun, then as a reaction there must be a loss in the wolrd of magic. Sorry to disappoint you. :) I disagree. The implicit message in my previous posts was that I believe them to be symbiotic. Magic and tech grow and develop according to the environment in which they exist. Neither obviates the other's existence. Fabricate and Creation spells can easily make weapons and armor, but blacksmiths have a thriving trade. Portals and Teleportation can move things fast, but there are good reasons for people to maintain long overland routes. One does not grow at the expense of the other; rather, they combine to create a more complex evolutionary landscape. Here is an example. The current state of nuclear arms technology is dangerous and counterproductive. All nuclear states want to defend themselves against attack and nuclear arms are the ultimate deterrent, but no one wants to use them for fear of retaliation. It is a precarious balance, and there is no obvious solution. Now throw magic into the scenario of mutually assured destruction. An epic spell or mythal or whatever that creates a nuclear shield. It is the wizard's trump card against a tech-heavy and magic-light enemy. So... I disagree. I think that magic and tech would interact--sometimes obstructing each other, sometimes feeding each other--in interesting and highly unpredictable ways, but always enouraging further development of both. |
| Alac Luin02-11-04, 06:11 PM | Originally posted by ender The difference is that technology develops over time in an organic manner, while magic must be painstakingly learned from first principles by every single mage. Remember, the telephone (to use only one example, but the history of industry is full of such examples) was not invented by one guy working like mad. Magnetism was explored by chemists and physicists like Maxwell and Faraday (themselves building off of Neuton's principia, et al). The nature of electrical energy was discovered by dozens of scientists including Franklin, Volta, and Galvani. Their efforts are cumulative; what one learns, the entire scientific community learns, propelling the current state of understanding forward. Once the scientific framework is in place, then the infrastructure, as you indicated. Yes, this is difficult and expensive. But infrastructure is durable. After the 100 years you spend putting the system in place, it will still work (given sufficient maintenance). Whereas after 100 years the mage, and the mind that holds that stupendous amount of magical knowledge, will be dead and the task of relearning it will fall to a new generation. Same hold true in technology, just as a new mage needs to learn the basics of magic, anyone working with electrical items needs to start by learning Ohms law and Watts Law. The old mage teaches apprentices so his/her new discoveries can be passed on to his students, for them to expand on. We can look at great technological minds, such as Tesla. He had no students of his advanced work, and all his notebooks were lost (to the best of oor knowledge) so the stuff you said about wizards holds just as true with technology. Originally posted by ender Except that this is extremely expensive: for all intents and purposes impossible for anyone but rich nobles. Telephones, to continue with the above example, are available to all--for the equivalent of silvers. Here you are not thinking from the mages point of view, it is expencive becouse it is rare, and if you corner the market, you can charge as much as you would like. The more you charge, the more the profit. Profit was the point you brought up that I was refering to. Originally posted by ender This is a good point. In my mind, however, this is a reason for governments to develop tech, not to ignore it. While infrastructure is durable, it is also fragile, which is why modern wars have revolved around objectives like securing airfields, bombing factories and train tracks, or destroying communications bunkers. If you rely on only one system then you are vulnerable when that system is weakened. If you have overlapping systems--magic and tech both--then it is that much more difficult for the enemy to cripple you. Imagine if WWII Germans could teleport troops rather than relying on their ragged railroads. Conversely, in a future Toril where Thayans have a chokehold on magic training and distribution all over the place, wouldn't it be nice to have a cell phone? :) Here we are in compleat agreement. The only thing I will put in is that they use the same packup that was used in real life, at least in the realm of comunication... runners. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that an invionment can't benifit from both magic and technology. It is my possition, that haveing (or not haveing) one does interfere with the advancement of the other. |
| ender02-11-04, 06:37 PM | Original post by Alac Luin: Same hold true in technology, just as a new mage needs to learn the basics of magic, anyone working with electrical items needs to start by learning Ohms law and Watts Law. The old mage teaches apprentices so his/her new discoveries can be passed on to his students, for them to expand on. We can look at great technological minds, such as Tesla. He had no students of his advanced work, and all his notebooks were lost (to the best of oor knowledge) so the stuff you said about wizards holds just as true with technology. I'm definitely going to have to disagree with this. The entire structure of science is designed so that new researchers have a body of accepted truth (Kuhn's "paradigms") which is established, accepted, and learned by rote. Thus, physics students do not need to pore through Newton's equations one by one. Their validity has been demonstrated, so the students are expected to accept them as canon law, thereby freeing them from to push the boundaries of science further. (Naturally, "canon law" is never as perfect as it is taught to be and discrepancies accumulate over time until the paradigm is changed, but this is going into a whole different discussion.) Magic, on the other hand, is mutable and chaotic. The very laws governing its use can be altered (such as Mystra's ban on 10th level spells). Apprentices are forced to begin with first principles, taking nothing for granted, retracing the footsteps of other wizards over thousands of years. Not simply relearning it, as students do in a lecture hall, but [U]rediscovering[/I] it, as if they had to perform the same experiments all over again, experience the same failures, suceeding only if they have the same epiphanies. (This is, of course, made worse by the fact that wizards tend to be secretive, so even cursory knowledge is never passed on at all). This takes an immense amount of time, effort, and natural talent. Here you are not thinking from the mages point of view, it is expencive becouse it is rare, and if you corner the market, you can charge as much as you would like. The more you charge, the more the profit. Profit was the point you brought up that I was refering to. Sorry, I don't think I understand. Market cornered or not, the mage is going to be more expensive. Traditionally, monopolists charge more money, not less; and if a mage is charging mega prices, then that makes telephones more attractive. I have a feeling I'm misunderstanding your point, though, so I would welcome any clarification. |
| Alac Luin02-11-04, 06:50 PM | Originally posted by ender Sorry, I don't think I understand. Market cornered or not, the mage is going to be more expensive. Traditionally, monopolists charge more money, not less; and if a mage is charging mega prices, then that makes telephones more attractive. I have a feeling I'm misunderstanding your point, though, so I would welcome any clarification. That is my point, if we go back on the thread, you said someone would impement phones to make money. My point here, is the intellegent person could make more money by being a wizard then laying ground line through hundreds of miles of swampland. Heck, i'm not that briliant, I'd choose to be wizard and cast spells for money, rather then laying tripwires for trolls (or be troll bait for that mater) Like I said, people can benifit from both, but when you see someone doing something that takes an hour of reading a book and less then 6 seconds, where is the modivation to do things differently? On the first part(magic/Tech advancement), we are still at different oppinions, but I dont see that changing for either of us anytime soon:) |
| Wooly Rupert02-11-04, 09:02 PM | Originally posted by ender I'm definitely going to have to disagree with this. The entire structure of science is designed so that new researchers have a body of accepted truth (Kuhn's "paradigms") which is established, accepted, and learned by rote. Thus, physics students do not need to pore through Newton's equations one by one. Their validity has been demonstrated, so the students are expected to accept them as canon law, thereby freeing them from to push the boundaries of science further. (Naturally, "canon law" is never as perfect as it is taught to be and discrepancies accumulate over time until the paradigm is changed, but this is going into a whole different discussion.) One problem with this argument: you're assuming a modern viewpoint when you say this. Sure, those things apply now, to our world... In our world, you can just jot down to your local B&N to pick up a book on physics or whatever... Though printing presses do exist in the Realms, they're a long way from mass-producing books. With the level of technology present in the Realms, having all that information at hand is quite unlikely, unless you live at Candlekeep. |
| ender02-11-04, 09:29 PM | Original post by Alac Luin: On the first part(magic/Tech advancement), we are still at different oppinions, but I dont see that changing for either of us anytime soon :) Nothing wrong with that. :) Original post by Wooly Rupert: One problem with this argument: you're assuming a modern viewpoint when you say this. True. Maybe I've gotten a little carried away. In any case, its been a fun discussion!:) |
| wingGodzilla02-12-04, 10:44 AM | I think you have made some real good points and I kind of agree with you about the symbiotic relationship between magic and tech. But try this chain of thought. Mages are by nature power-hungry and driven to better them-selfs and there magic. While there ways to gain there power/magic maybe different, they all have the love and desire to gain it. It is the bond all mages share. It is the respect that passing mages have for one another and/or the fuel for the fire to beat one another. Now if the tech world truely grew to the point where it could be conceived as a threat to the ways of magic. Would the mages of the world have little choice but to start a war to "wipe clean" the tech in world of Faerin. To save the one thing they all love above anything else. You could say that this would never happen because of the balence you spoke of before. But that is because tech is looked at so poorly. It is almost thought of as a "poorman alchemy" by most of the world, and by most of the peolpe in the world. Now there are those few who are very passionate about tech, but there is not a lot of them out there. That would all change if (when?) a piece of tech could find it's way into everyday life. If it could find it's way into mainstream life, then the lure of tech would have a ripple effect across the Realms. More people would want to learn tech and some of those same people would have/ could have been wizards. The point is if tech started to be a real pain in the butt to mages, that balence would fall apart. And that is only one gizmo away! Anyway, thanks for sticking around so long with me on this train of thought. I am interested in what people think about it! This IS most enjoyable! |
| MR. T02-12-04, 12:43 PM | In terms of technological advancement I'd say some of the population of Fauren is definately more sophisticated than others. Take the gnome island of Lantan as a sample. Their technological progress is probably the most evolved in the wurld. They've developed machines that are advanced enough to reproduce spell effects in addition to mechanisms to compliment everyday life. I know there's a supplement somewhere detailing some of the abilities found on the island, also there's numerous references in novels, source material and on the WotC website. Some of it's really interesting, just don't quite remeber where all of it's located. my $.02 |
| Lokiyn02-13-04, 02:23 AM | A tech based infrastructure might be more stable but i would opt for a magic based one because wondrous items don't wear out. right now i'm driving my DM insane because i keep applying items in new ways. Like magiship a mail service between major cities where 100lb per day of letters are sent through ring gates and sent to thier recipients. or crystalballs of telepathy where you pay a fee and contact whoever you wish and speak with them. anyway the potential for my characters profit was endless so the dm killed my character :-(. he's a bit of a jerk when your characters start to surpass his in the same campaign.(i know, in know but lets not turn this into a dm thread) The point is you can take what is in the wondrous item tables and duplicate almost anything you wish from the "modern" world |
| Nahar02-13-04, 02:43 AM | I know that in Tantras the priests of Gond have built modern-style cranes and gantries for loading ships at the docks. I think Baldur's Gate have similar ones. So to extrapolate, the engineering and material science side of things must be fairly advanced. And you can't build a decent castle without a lot of skill. The main thing is, as everyone has stated, magic does a lot of things quicker, cheaper and easier than mechanical gadgets. To sum up: if it doesn't involve rocket science, and there isn't an easy magical solution, I pretty much think Faerun is somewhere around the 16 to 17 hundreds. But if there is a magical alternative they're still using stone tools. And, that's only in prosperous trade-rich areas. Folk scratching out a living in the middle of nowhere wouldn't have anything like even more modest cities, the tech just hasn't spread there yet. |
| markheus02-25-04, 12:20 PM | This is a great thread... However, all of this may be moot. I rememeber reading somewhere that the physics in the Realms are "different" than those in our world. Sure, the vast majority of things may be the same but all it takes is one small thing, one small variance in the charge or weight of a sub atomic particle to change the effect matter would have on the world. So, I assume that not only has modern used of electricity not been discovered, but that it cannot be discovered because it does not exist. There is no way one can generate electricity with a magnet and wire. Of course, wizards still have spells that use electricity, but power for these spells are drawn from elsewhere, it itsn't really manipulation of the forces of the world. |
| Mirtek02-25-04, 02:44 PM | One does must not forget that advanced technology simply doesn't work on Toril. Whether the gods specifically make sure that such things don't work of it's just a side effect of the weave, advanced technology doesn't work on Toril. You can go to earth, get some AK47s, bring them back to Toril and they won't fire. You can get a F22, bring it to Toril and when you want to send it against the nasty read dragon, it just won't start. |
| ender02-25-04, 08:26 PM | Original post by Mirtek: One does must not forget that advanced technology simply doesn't work on Toril. Are you basing this statement on any particular source? |
| Gellion02-25-04, 10:57 PM | Originally posted by Mirtek One does must not forget that advanced technology simply doesn't work on Toril. Whether the gods specifically make sure that such things don't work of it's just a side effect of the weave, advanced technology doesn't work on Toril. You can go to earth, get some AK47s, bring them back to Toril and they won't fire. You can get a F22, bring it to Toril and when you want to send it against the nasty read dragon, it just won't start. Hmmmm, my Flesh disentegrating rifle seems to work fine.:smirk: |
| Alac Luin02-26-04, 11:15 AM | Originally posted by Gellion Hmmmm, my Flesh disentegrating rifle seems to work fine.:smirk: Or is that a Staff of Disintegrate with a manual trigger insted of a comand word? |
| Mirtek02-26-04, 11:51 AM | Originally posted by ender Are you basing this statement on any particular source? Yes, 2nd Edition (when Toril was still connected to other planets, including Earth) Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. |
| Gellion02-26-04, 03:48 PM | Originally posted by Alac Luin Or is that a Staff of Disintegrate with a manual trigger insted of a comand word? Nope, this baby is purely technilogical.:smirk: |
| ender02-26-04, 08:59 PM | Original post by Mirtek: Yes, 2nd Edition (when Toril was still connected to other planets, including Earth) Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. Sorry, Mirtek, that's a lot of stuff to wade through for a reference. Could you be more specific as to where it can be found? |
| Kuje3102-26-04, 09:16 PM | Originally posted by ender Sorry, Mirtek, that's a lot of stuff to wade through for a reference. Could you be more specific as to where it can be found? Page 9 of Running the Realms, "The physics of the Realms are slightly out of synchronization with the rest of the planes, so that many technological devices that operate on electronics do not function. Equivalent devices may be developed by the PC's. DM's should put some thought into what they will allow into thier campaign worlds. DM's may choose to eliminate the use of gunpowder (or its magical equivalent, smoke powder) from the Realms at thier option." I know there are other sources as well where it says Earth tech does not work in FR. |
| Mazarick02-26-04, 09:53 PM | This is all well and good... But do they have chocolate? |
| ender02-26-04, 10:50 PM | Original post by Kuje: Page 9 of Running the Realms, "The physics of the Realms are slightly out of synchronization with the rest of the planes, so that many technological devices that operate on electronics do not function. Equivalent devices may be developed by the PC's. DM's should put some thought into what they will allow into thier campaign worlds. DM's may choose to eliminate the use of gunpowder (or its magical equivalent, smoke powder) from the Realms at thier option." Hm. Curiouser and curiouser. That seem like a nifty way to handle it, if you want to bar tech from ever being an issue. |
| Kuje3102-26-04, 11:15 PM | Originally posted by ender Hm. Curiouser and curiouser. That seem like a nifty way to handle it, if you want to bar tech from ever being an issue. Yup. :) It also stated this in the old 1e Grey Box as well, almost word for word. :) |
| Alac Luin02-27-04, 06:50 PM | Originally posted by Mazarick This is all well and good... But do they have chocolate? Why, yes they do. A newer import from Meztica was the Coaca bean. Amn, waterdeap and Baldur's Gate have been experimenting with diferent types of chocolate confections. IIRC Baulder's Gate has some of the better Chocolate makers. |
| Nahar02-28-04, 08:33 AM | Originally posted by Alac Luin IIRC Baulder's Gate has some of the better Chocolate makers. Did I say my PC was moving to Daggerdale? I meant Baldur's Gate, anyone could tell it was a mere slip of the choco... I mean, tongue!! |
| dragonheart02-29-04, 12:07 PM | one thing to remember is that several pre middle ages cultures had considerably more advanced tech than the middle ages. THe romans were consumate engineers with cranes and poured concrete, The Harappans and others had flush toilets and essentially modern plumbing as early as 2500 BC. A simple steam engine was demonstrated in Athens about 350 BC, etc. In Netheril with the Mythallars they used magic for everything now without it tech is simpler and easier to use for many basic things ( plumbing etc.) with perhaps a bit of magic thrown in (a dekanter of endless water instead of a 20 mile aqueduct) etc. As long as you burn experience creating permanent magic items/effects tech is going to be useful for larger scale things while magic is more useful for personal devices. I run a 20th centrury scientist lost in the realms in my campaign and he is very careful about how he brings out technology devices. he does a lot with magic now but also uses tech in places where its faster and more useful. |
| Ascended Bard03-05-04, 09:17 PM | Why not have an evil alien (or good aliens, if your party is evil) spaceship crash onto your Game planet, and have your characters stumble upon it. You could then have them go inside, where all the technology seems to work just fine, but leaving the ship with anything will render it useless. You can have the heroes fight off robots, aliens, and whatever else you can imagine, while using beam swords, conventional weapons, or even frag grenades. Maybe you can throw in a tiny bonus of having the heroes actually leave with ONE piece of equipment for defeating a really hard boss character, like a mother brain? It wouldn't be too unbalacing, to be honest. Taking a sub machine gun with only a 30 bullet clip wouldn't be bad, not like you could take down a dragon with it or anything. A beam sword would even work nicely, and it would make it quite the unique find. |
| ender03-05-04, 09:22 PM | This is pure opinion, but I don't think that your suggestions are a good idea, Ascended Bard. Having a an alien ship crash into the FR transforms it into a sci fi setting. This plays havoc with the feel of the Realms and doesn't do justice to the full potential of modern technology in a campaign. If you are really interested in beam swords or machine guns, I would highly reccomend a different setting, such as D20 Modern or Star Wars (both of which, in my experience, are a lot of fun). |
| Kuje3103-05-04, 09:33 PM | Originally posted by ender This is pure opinion, but I don't think that your suggestions are a good idea, Ascended Bard. Having a an alien ship crash into the FR transforms it into a sci fi setting. This plays havoc with the feel of the Realms and doesn't do justice to the full potential of modern technology in a campaign. If you are really interested in beam swords or machine guns, I would highly reccomend a different setting, such as D20 Modern or Star Wars (both of which, in my experience, are a lot of fun). It depends. :) I did this once for some of my old PC's. They got sent back to the dawn of the elves, and you know what? Some of those elves were humans that mutated into elves. However, only that small group of 5 elven and half-elven PC's know this and its lost in the dawn of time so the elves still have all thier legends of the war between Corellon and Lloth, but on my FR the first sun elves were humans that crashed onto FR and mutated into elves. Sure it's a little sci-fi, but it can be done if you build it in as past legends, etc. Hells even Gary wrote a module where you can find that stuff in Greyhawk or the one module where you travel to Earth to retrive Cuthbert's hammer from a meseum (I can't spell that word. :)). Since tech doesn't work on FR all of thier items were useless so they couldn't use any of the items from the ship but the crew, as well as the PC's were the first elves to populate my Faerun and all elves can trace thier linage back to those strangers and the PC's, but most elves don't have memories of that time since it was about 24,000+ years ago. |
| Sarta03-05-04, 10:31 PM | Originally posted by Kuje31 Page 9 of Running the Realms, "The physics of the Realms are slightly out of synchronization with the rest of the planes, so that many technological devices that operate on electronics do not function. Equivalent devices may be developed by the PC's. DM's should put some thought into what they will allow into thier campaign worlds. DM's may choose to eliminate the use of gunpowder (or its magical equivalent, smoke powder) from the Realms at thier option." I know there are other sources as well where it says Earth tech does not work in FR. Boy, I'll bet all the DM's that ran Tale of the Comet in FR wish they had known this first. Sarta |
| Kuje3103-05-04, 10:39 PM | Originally posted by Sarta Boy, I'll bet all the DM's that ran Tale of the Comet in FR wish they had known this first. Sarta Tale of the Comet? |
| Wooly Rupert03-05-04, 11:43 PM | Originally posted by Kuje31 Tale of the Comet? I don't recall if it was a module or a boxed set, but it dealt with a spacecraft that crashed into the PC's world... So here's the PCs, armed with swords and spells, going against robots with lasers... 'Tis been a long time since I persued it, but I seem to recall that any fallen character, if you didn't recover their body, was grabbed by the other side and made into a cyborg zombie... Originally posted by Kuje31 Hells even Gary wrote a module where you can find that stuff in Greyhawk or the one module where you travel to Earth to retrive Cuthbert's hammer from a meseum (I can't spell that word. :)). The City Beyond the Gate, Dragon Magazine number 100. Having to find that artifact in a museum in London... I loved that one! :D I also mentioned it to someone else a day or two ago. They were wanting to bring some tech into the Realms, and I was suggesting a look at that module to see how magic and tech would interact. |
| Kuje3103-05-04, 11:56 PM | Originally posted by Wooly Rupert I don't recall if it was a module or a boxed set, but it dealt with a spacecraft that crashed into the PC's world... So here's the PCs, armed with swords and spells, going against robots with lasers... 'Tis been a long time since I persued it, but I seem to recall that any fallen character, if you didn't recover their body, was grabbed by the other side and made into a cyborg zombie... The City Beyond the Gate, Dragon Magazine number 100. Having to find that artifact in a museum in London... I loved that one! :D I also mentioned it to someone else a day or two ago. They were wanting to bring some tech into the Realms, and I was suggesting a look at that module to see how magic and tech would interact. Ah, never heard of that module/box set. :) Sounds interesting though! And yes that's that name of the other module. :) |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart03-07-04, 02:40 PM | Sorry if somone mentioned this (I only read half the thread...) but do any of you remeber cadderly? I dont mean from the drizzt serious (same guy though) but from the books he was orginally in? Rember how he had a converation with his girl friend about her monk ablity to stun someone? He asked her if she would teach him and she replied "and will you teach me how to make that crossbow of yours?" Cadderly had an interesting crossbow. he put oils of impact on the bolts so when it you it would be like a cannon but only affect you. Cadderly was affraid of the damn thing...it was a dangerous idea that if recopied could cause chaos...and be cheap to make. Also as you know in the drizzt serious right before each chapter there are words in italics which are I guess drizzts thinking. In one of the books (I think it was servant of the shard were he actually wasnet the star of that book so he really couldent talk about current events) he said he met a gondsmen. He said the gondsmen talked about the "Revolution" of the world or somthing like that and drizzt got affraid. If any person..even a child..could pick up an arbequis and have the same affect as a wizards fireball which would take years and years to learn the kind of chaos that could be made? Indeed it seems that gond was smarter then all of us... Then again I have a great doubt the allies would have won world war two without a lot of tec. Sure the germans used a lot and had a lot of scientists building a lot of tanks but the allies relied way more on that stuff. Imagine normandy with germany having crossbows and arrows but we not having any paratroopers? Scary scary thought... -Frosty |
| Gellion03-07-04, 02:45 PM | As I have demonstrated earlier. I am all for more tech in FR. DESTROY THE MAGICAL TYRANTS!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Is taken away to a scary place* |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart03-07-04, 03:00 PM | Poor poor gell has lost his mind...again... YOU FOOL DONT YOU SEE YOUR ERROR! (jk) so Gell if I told you "everyone including commeners gets +10 classes of wizard, but you have to pay for some things" you wouldent have a problem with this?? -Frostbite |
| wingGodzilla03-07-04, 04:43 PM | You know the more I read this thread, the more I think that a war is coming to Faerun. A war in which old allies might find themself on differents sides. War makes strange bedfellows. Let the Magic vs. Tech war start! |
| Mr.Citrus03-08-04, 11:37 PM | I'm making a campaign for a couple of my friends that takes place in faerun 300 years after where the books are set. Here is a outline of the timeline :) 1) Bane unleashs master plan to control faerun 2) lathander, having prepared for this shoots his plan down almost instantly. 3) Bane's back up plan kicks in, and Attacks gond and abosrbs his portfolio. 4)Bane starts supplying his remaining forrces with technological weapons. 5)The weapons bane supplies his troops start to win him more and more batles and he starts to re-build his forces. 6) a large world war erupts, between bane and his supporters and his friends verus lathander and his buddies 7) in a massive battle between the gods, bane is split apart creating two new gods, a good god of inventions, and a evil god that governs weapons of war, along with banes old portfolio(this will probably be fzoul, being annointed godhood). 8)most of harpers are destroyed, as are the zhents. With a greater fear of technolgy, talonas blightlords get stronger and strong posing a greater threat to faerun.(i dont know of who is going to take the place of the harpers, but they will slowly rebuild.) 9)war ends, but incredible technology has been spread to the people. Steam engines and trains are commonplace(as well as rifles and revolvers) what do you guys think? ive already got a ton of magic vrs. tech ideas if you guys want to hear them btw. |
| Decepticons03-09-04, 12:55 AM | Lots of valid points here, hopefully I can add a few more. First, I don't think it's a good idea to take technology as a whole. If I had to, I'd place Faeruns overall tech level at somewhere around 1350-1400 in earth time, but there are some staggering discrepancies. First in the medical field. Obviously here on earth we don't have any magical source of healing. We can't go see a cleric to have him cast a cure light wounds on us when we fall on a pencil. Having magical healing avalible, even on a limited basis, would stunt the hell out of medical technology. Until very recently (like the last 100 years) we knew almost nothing about anatomy and a lot of medical "fact" was based on total falicies. The few medical advances from 1000AD to 1800AD were mostly accidental, and usualy extremley painful if not deadly to the person receiving them. For example, today having a kidney stone surgically removed is somewhat painful, but it takes only a few hours and the success rate is near 100%. Having a kidney stone 300 years ago was usually a fatal experience. Having it removed was an insanly painful procedure and the success rate was less than 50-50 (and generally, in unsuccesful situations, the patiet died). If I could scrounge up a few 100gp and agreed to a religious conversion in Faerun, I might score a casting of cure disease...goodbye kidney stone. Second would be metalurgy. When you have abundant (or at least not unusually rare) supplies of magical metals like Mithril and the like avalible for mining, it decrease the amount of time people are going to spend researching new alloys. If we have natural "super hard" metals like mithril avalible, how much longer would it have taken us to develop tungsten steel or other important metals like nickle, tin and aluminum? Gunpowder is avalible in Faerun, but it was avalible on Earth for a very long time before it was adapted for military use. Early gunpowder weapons were notoriously inacurate and dangerous to the user (and didn't work very well, if at all, in the rain). Not much point in developing a substance like gunpowder when a fire ball will work whether it's raining or not... Chemistry seems to be fairly in-line (non-magical chemistry aside) from where we were in the 1300-1400's. Physics is the kicker. In the end, it's one of the base-lines for modern science. All of our observations and achievements are based on things we can observed and prove. We can demonstrate gravity. We can watch the planets orbit the sun...but if we introduce magic that can warp the laws of physics, it's much harder to develop them into laws. |
| Kuje3103-09-04, 01:15 AM | Originally posted by Decepticons Lots of valid points here, hopefully I can add a few more. First, I don't think it's a good idea to take technology as a whole. If I had to, I'd place Faeruns overall tech level at somewhere around 1350-1400 in earth time, but there are some staggering discrepancies. First in the medical field. Obviously here on earth we don't have any magical source of healing. We can't go see a cleric to have him cast a cure light wounds on us when we fall on a pencil. Having magical healing avalible, even on a limited basis, would stunt the hell out of medical technology. Until very recently (like the last 100 years) we knew almost nothing about anatomy and a lot of medical "fact" was based on total falicies. The few medical advances from 1000AD to 1800AD were mostly accidental, and usualy extremley painful if not deadly to the person receiving them. For example, today having a kidney stone surgically removed is somewhat painful, but it takes only a few hours and the success rate is near 100%. Having a kidney stone 300 years ago was usually a fatal experience. Having it removed was an insanly painful procedure and the success rate was less than 50-50 (and generally, in unsuccesful situations, the patiet died). If I could scrounge up a few 100gp and agreed to a religious conversion in Faerun, I might score a casting of cure disease...goodbye kidney stone. Second would be metalurgy. When you have abundant (or at least not unusually rare) supplies of magical metals like Mithril and the like avalible for mining, it decrease the amount of time people are going to spend researching new alloys. If we have natural "super hard" metals like mithril avalible, how much longer would it have taken us to develop tungsten steel or other important metals like nickle, tin and aluminum? Gunpowder is avalible in Faerun, but it was avalible on Earth for a very long time before it was adapted for military use. Early gunpowder weapons were notoriously inacurate and dangerous to the user (and didn't work very well, if at all, in the rain). Not much point in developing a substance like gunpowder when a fire ball will work whether it's raining or not... Chemistry seems to be fairly in-line (non-magical chemistry aside) from where we were in the 1300-1400's. Physics is the kicker. In the end, it's one of the base-lines for modern science. All of our observations and achievements are based on things we can observed and prove. We can demonstrate gravity. We can watch the planets orbit the sun...but if we introduce magic that can warp the laws of physics, it's much harder to develop them into laws. Actually Gunpowder is not the same as Smokepowder. Gunpowder does not work in FR but Smokepowder does. Well according to what Ed posted a few days back FR is advanced in medicine..... And I HATE KIDNEY STONES! SORRY! Needed to get that off my chest since I've been living with them for at least 16 years! Now more from Ed. Bookwyrm, I see medical knowledge as varying widely across the Realms, but being highest among demi-humans, because tending humans has been one longterm way of being accepted in human-dominated communities. Herb lore is predominant, coupled with “potions” (herbal concoctions, not magic) effective in dealing with minor diseases, allergic reactions, and shock. The organs of all humanoid races are known, plus the general functioning of the body (hence what shock is, and how to treat it), how blood ‘works,’ and the importance of cleanliness for wounds (though most folks in the Realms have what we modern real-world types would consider bad personal hygiene and BAD teeth, though persons desiring to make a good impression who can’t get a chance to bathe properly will work scented oils into their hair and rub scented oils on their bodies to change their strong odour into something less unpleasant). In the Realms, almost everyone understands that ill or wounded people need rest, to be covered by a blanket or at least kept out of full sun, that moving or rough handling will do greater harm, and that people should be given much to drink (even in cases where we moderns would say, “No, not even if complaining of thirst should Thrudd be given water or something stronger, because he’s hurt inside!”). Stretchers and slings are commonly used, and where a stretcher can’t be found, injured who must be carried are usually lashed to felled treetrunks and borne along between the shoulders of two strong carriers. Scarring is common, because cauterization is well-known. Herbal painkillers (usually liquids that are “brewed” and drunk, but also liquids drizzled into wounds) are widely known and used, especially before someone is “sewn up,” and there are herbs known in the Realms but not present in the real-world, including fleshwort (yes, I know we have several plants by that folk name, but I’m postulating a new and different plant) that can be sewn into an internal wound, and slowly absorbed by the body as raw material to build new tissue, blood vessels, and cartilage, bloodstaunch (which thickens blood very quickly upon direct contact, and so can be applied to open wounds to slow or stop bleeding), and bloodpurge (works to neutralize poisons). Splinting is common, many beings are expert at neatly sewing flesh, and yes, body piercings (especially among goblinkin) and the importance of using flame or alcohol (not together!) to prevent infections related to said piercings are commonplace. (Note that it is not currently the fashion anywhere in the Heartlands to make use of facial piercings except in the nostrils and earlobes.) Herb lore was another of the things strictly vetoed in the early days of the Realms (along with poisons, my terms of venery article, and my “Dragon Soup” article on using monster byproducts in human Realms cookery; the first two for “we don’t want lawsuits if kids try these” reasons despite my promise to use entirely fictional herbs and poisons, the terms of venery because it was “unnecessary fluff,” and the last one for the “some of these creatures are intelligent, so your article is in very bad taste”). More recently, the gnome vocabulary and heraldry Volo’s articles suffered the same fate, but as they’re owned by WotC, I can’t put them into print without permission. |
| Decepticons03-09-04, 11:00 AM | Very good info, and another tick in the score column for why it is really hard to compare the two worlds on a technological level. As we've seen on earth, war tends to drive technology. During WWII we saw the development of the first jet and rocket engines, and even the first use of atomics, as unfortunate as the results were. Even up until WWI, most large scale wars were fought with large formations of men, all working as a group. This was even more prelavent during the renissance era of Europe and before. Large groups of men, often with simple weapons like pikes and spears, fighting in groups because there were no radios to issue orders and a group that go disrupted typically lost it's ability to fight well. But, that was on earth, a place with no (proven) wizards (other than the costal variety). How would military tactics have been different when you had wizards on the battle-field who could devestate closely packed formations of men with fireballs and cloud-kill? A general who could stay linked to his colonels and captains via magic could issue orders without having to send a runner. Seige-tactics might have been different as well. Why lay seige to the walls of a castle if you have flying units (or magical ability to fly)? Why build catapults if you have a few persons in your army who can cast Stone-Shape or transmute rock to mud? Sire! The castle walls! They've turned to mud! |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart03-09-04, 04:51 PM | Originally posted by Decepticons Very good info, and another tick in the score column for why it is really hard to compare the two worlds on a technological level. As we've seen on earth, war tends to drive technology. During WWII we saw the development of the first jet and rocket engines, and even the first use of atomics, as unfortunate as the results were. Even up until WWI, most large scale wars were fought with large formations of men, all working as a group. This was even more prelavent during the renissance era of Europe and before. Large groups of men, often with simple weapons like pikes and spears, fighting in groups because there were no radios to issue orders and a group that go disrupted typically lost it's ability to fight well. But, that was on earth, a place with no (proven) wizards (other than the costal variety). How would military tactics have been different when you had wizards on the battle-field who could devestate closely packed formations of men with fireballs and cloud-kill? A general who could stay linked to his colonels and captains via magic could issue orders without having to send a runner. Seige-tactics might have been different as well. Why lay seige to the walls of a castle if you have flying units (or magical ability to fly)? Why build catapults if you have a few persons in your army who can cast Stone-Shape or transmute rock to mud? Sire! The castle walls! They've turned to mud! call me smart, pray I am just right, look at me weird beacuse you think I am psyic OR BOW DOWN TO ME AS YOUR GOD. However I do know that these questions will start pulling on you. You will wonder the entire bases of the realms and how it all works. Search the threads on the FR and regular dnd threads and look in the CW handbook and you will find information. One common theory that destroys all others that come into its path is the price of fullplate and wands. Some wands cost half that of fullplate. Why buy a knight in shinning fullplate who can get crunched by a group of lightly armed infantry with simply pikes when going out solo in place of spending the time to train a wizard or "magic-item-manipulator" (bardes/rouges) then equipting them with wands of fireballs? Clerics with cure light wounds and wizarrds with lightning (For anti-charges/horses/nice packaged infantry thats upsetting you with there organization :Devil: ) or fireballs. -Frosty |
| dragonheart03-09-04, 09:05 PM | Why build catapults if you have a few persons in your army who can cast Stone-Shape or transmute rock to mud? well technically stone to mud doesn't work on worked stone so it wouldn't affect the castle walls - of course passwall does a nice job of penetrating stone walls instead. How would military tactics have been different when you had wizards on the battle-field who could devestate closely packed formations of men with fireballs and cloud-kill? judging from how long it took folks to learn not to fight in mass formation agaisnt muskets then rifled muskets and then machine guns probably not very different:( Until very recently (like the last 100 years) we knew almost nothing about anatomy and a lot of medical "fact" was based on total falicies. well Europe knew nothing but the arab world and many other regions knew a lot more that western medicine is still trying to learn about ranging from things like accupuncture to all the herbals and dietary connections we are just beging to understand the details of. we don't allow it into into medicine till we understand its inner workings - earlier groups simply looked for waht worked - to heck with why. and of course magic helps in the D&D world as well. When you have abundant (or at least not unusually rare) supplies of magical metals like Mithril and the like avalible for mining, it decrease the amount of time people are going to spend researching new alloys. If we have natural "super hard" metals like mithril avalible, how much longer would it have taken us to develop tungsten steel or other important metals like nickle, tin and aluminum? ok the names are different but are you sure that those "magical" metals are not in realitythe same ones we use? take a close look at Mithral - 1/3 the weight of steel but the same strength, more resistant to corrosion, to temperature, but able to be allowed with steel - you know what modern metal exactly fits that discription? Titanium admantite is harder but nickel actually works fairly well as a direct analog and a nickel-cobalt alloy even better (guess what armour steel for tanks was made from?) I haven't looked closely but I would bet that a case could be made for many of the others to be fairly good analogs under different names for many of our modern metals/alloys - just invented/discovered by the elves or dwarves before humans got civilized. Actually Gunpowder is not the same as Smokepowder. Gunpowder does not work in FR but Smokepowder does. LOL I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude but please - smoke powder is gunpowder - just slightly adapted to fit to a "magical" world and really it gives us all a good clue on how (I think) Ed G. meant for tech to be included - it has to be reworked to involve at least a little magic to overcome that "The physics of the Realms are slightly out of synchronization with the rest of the planes, so that many technological devices that operate on electronics do not function. Equivalent devices may be developed by the PC's. At least IMCW that is extended to most other tech. For example I have a character ( PC elsewhere NPC in my world) that uses what amounts to a thompson submachine gun - a clip fed repeating crossbow without the cross - it uses two countering push spells to move a carraige that loads the bolts from the clip and then fires them - range is a little less than a normal light crossbow and when fired on full auto there is a -4 to hit but you get 10 bolts a round - when fired at a mass formation you can basically treat every bolt as a grenade like weapon - its going to hit something somewhere even if not the "aimed" target. the fool thing even looks like like thompson more or less. so you want tech? yeah about 13-1400 sounds right - daVinci could well be out there somewhere inventing helicopters, tanks and such but he is not trying to use straight mechanics to do it all he is actually making the fool things using some magic to gloss over the problems he hasn['t figured out and the problems that little things like fault tolerances, frictional losses and such would prevent in reality. |
| Kuje3103-09-04, 09:21 PM | Originally posted by dragonheart LOL I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude but please - smoke powder is gunpowder - just slightly adapted to fit to a "magical" world and really it gives us all a good clue on how (I think) Ed G. meant for tech to be included - it has to be reworked to involve at least a little magic to overcome that Actually it's not. Again Smokepowder IS NOT gunpowder. 1) Smokepowder is made with magic, and 2) Gunpowder does not work in FR but Smokepowder does. |
| Frostbite_Ravenheart03-09-04, 09:55 PM | Originally posted by Kuje31 Actually it's not. Again Smokepowder IS NOT gunpowder. 1) Smokepowder is made with magic, and 2) Gunpowder does not work in FR but Smokepowder does. Hmm I do remeber somewhere I think it was in "Realms of Magic" or "Realms of Valor" where they were talking about the wizards of thay selling smokepowder for so much beacuse everyone thought it was magical while it was just chemestry with a little bit of magic TO DO WORK inplace of others tools and gadgets. -Frosty |
| Decepticons03-09-04, 10:02 PM | ok the names are different but are you sure that those "magical" metals are not in realitythe same ones we use? take a close look at Mithral - 1/3 the weight of steel but the same strength, more resistant to corrosion, to temperature, but able to be allowed with steel - you know what modern metal exactly fits that discription? Titanium admantite is harder but nickel actually works fairly well as a direct analog and a nickel-cobalt alloy even better (guess what armour steel for tanks was made from?) I haven't looked closely but I would bet that a case could be made for many of the others to be fairly good analogs under different names for many of our modern metals/alloys - just invented/discovered by the elves or dwarves before humans got civilized. Things like Titanium and Nickel-Cobalt are alloys...mixes of more than one metal or other element. The stuff in FR is mined "as is" (or at least thats what I'm led to believe). |
| dragonheart03-09-04, 10:18 PM | 2 different things 1) on the smoke powder isn't gunpowder my basic reply is " if it walks, quacks and tastes like a duck at xmas" then what ever you want to call it tis a duck to me :) 2) The stuff in FR is mined "as is" (or at least thats what I'm led to believe). actually nickel and cobalt are often minned together as their ores form together. nickel is named for "old nick ( the devil) because it made other sulphide ores nearly useless, Cobalt is named after the Kobolds of German miner mythology because it also made their copper ores un refinable - both have to be heated to much higher temperatures to be refined and humans didn't have the capability untill the 1800s. Dwarves and elves using forges powered with magical heat/elementals would be able to handle these ores long before humans were civilized. Actually the ores as described don't exactly match the real mineralogy but I doubt the writers were really trying to exactly mimic it. Actually I like having allthe magical metals etc and not having them be exactly the same but the mithral-titanium link is just too strong to me and IMCW they are the same by different names. and mithral still has all its regulation capabilities. |
| Kuje3103-09-04, 10:43 PM | Originally posted by Frostbite_Ravenheart Hmm I do remeber somewhere I think it was in "Realms of Magic" or "Realms of Valor" where they were talking about the wizards of thay selling smokepowder for so much beacuse everyone thought it was magical while it was just chemestry with a little bit of magic TO DO WORK inplace of others tools and gadgets. -Frosty Even in FR Adventures, where it was first introduced, says it is a magical substance. Straight from Magic of Faerun. "This MAGIC alchemical substance is similiar to gunpowder." It is NOT gunpowder though, because gunpowder does not work in FR and it never has. And Dragonheart, you can say it is the same but it isn't. |
| Fredegar The White03-10-04, 01:47 AM | All hail Sexpertius :bow: I bow to your will! Anyway as said above smokepowder is not gun powder. It's less powerfull and a magic substance. But Dragonheart can say it is Gunpowder in his campaign. p.s. i prefer not to use the "Gunpowder does not work in Faerun" thing.:D |
| dragonheart03-10-04, 09:23 PM | heck I prefer to keep both gunpwder and smoke powder out of my own campaign. I don't want this to deteriorate to a yes it is/no it isn't - smoke powder is magical gunpowder is not butsmoke powder takes the place in faerun that gunpowder took on earth and is that universe's equivalent and I don't like it either way in my D&D games:behold: |
| dzombiex03-12-04, 07:27 AM | I find this post pretty interesting considering iv'e been working on a more Modern version of Toril for a campaign. It takes place a few thousand years in the future after a huge war amongst the faerunian pantheon. The war ended in the death of many of the gods. Magic has become less powerful due to the failing weave. I'm using the d20 modern book as a base for everything. I'll post more on it later. I understand the way magic and technology is suppose to work on Toril, but its up to the DM to make the final choice on that. This world is more of a 'What if?' situation. When I do finish it I'll add it, im working on a website currently. I hope you will like it :) DZX |
| ender03-12-04, 03:50 PM | That does sound interesting, dzombiex. Please post your website when it is up and running. :) |
| Demetri_Knighthawk02-26-07, 11:56 AM | has anyone looked into the game 'arcanum: of steamworks and magica obscura'? I never beat the game so I dont know the plot, what I DO know was character generation and gameplay :P basicly tech fizzles magic and spells jam tech. "but HOW do we impliment this into the game?" I hear you ask. first off we ASSUME that all normal weapons are iron, not steel, a masterwork weapon is steel to represent their hisher quality in ore, but I digress: for every 10 lbs of iron and cold iron, the character gains 1% magic resistance. this ratio tends to leave few people comfortable with a high magic resistanc bordering that of a tank, and isnmt that just what a tank should be if not resistant to heavy fire of fireballs and such? conversely: for every 10 spells a character has access to, non magical items have a 1% chance of failing to operate as instructed per foot per spell, this includes the spells from magic items, but the spell of construction, not the charge. example: a 6th level magic user has access to (1) 3rd level, (2) 2nd level (3) 1st level and (4) 0th levels. 4+3+2+1= 10 spells so he gains 1% chance a gun wont fire in 10 feet around him. |
| Fredegar The White02-27-07, 01:39 AM | Incredible necro!!! :D |
| MarkusTay6302-27-07, 08:42 AM | has anyone looked into the game 'arcanum: of steamworks and magica obscura'?I LOVED that game! :D And BTW, the evil Gnomes were behind everything. ;) I would like to think that a non-spell-casting class would be able to create Smoke powder as well. Perhaps a highly specialized expert, like an Alchemist? Since guns would basically be taking the place of a lot of what mages do, I can't see a whole lot of incentive for them to make it. Do they really want 'normals' walking around with 'thunder sticks'? Also, if and when I can get my group together again, I want to start having it go a little towards Pirates of the Caribean. In that setting, they have firearms, but they are rarely used. Pretty much one shot and then its on to melee combat. I don't see that overly unbalancing, especially if the bad guys get to get off a shot too. In fact, it might prove more balancing, actually leveling the playing field a bit. A Rogue can hide during combat and pop a few shots off, and a wizard who's out of spells could pull out hold-out pistol and shot the charging orc in the face. The only way I can see it become overly unbalancing is if you allow called shots, because then the gun just becomes another 'death spell' wand. |
| DarthXaos02-27-07, 09:22 AM | Reason why tech doesn't work: Earth's periodic table: 100-some elements. Faerun's periodic table: 4. |