The 3-man party [Archive] - Wizards Community

The 3-man party [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
lockdar
08-30-05, 03:49 AM I'm running a new campaign with 2 of my friends that features the return of the Elves to Fearun. We've been enjoying ourselves alot so far but I have a bit of a problem finding the right CR monsters for a 3man party. All the CR's are rated for more people in a party so I've been trying with CR's 1 or 2 levels lower then the party yet it doesn't seem to be working out. Sometimes the monster gets whacked before it even knew what happened and sometimes I have to do a bit of bending to actually give them a chance. This has happened in a variety of encounters so far.
Has anyone here ever had any experience with running a campaign for a 3-man party? The party consists out of these characters:

- Female Gold Elf - Wiz10/Clr1 (going for Mystic Theurge)
- Male Gold Elf - Fighter10/Wiz1 (going for Bladesinger/Spellsword)
- Female Wood Elf - Druid11 - Will prolly level to 20

We've managed to get together a good variety of characters cause there are only 3 of us :)

So any advices on running a 3man campaign?
folletrap
08-30-05, 04:45 AM A thinked about 2,5 ;) solutions:

1)introduce a NPC guided by the DM. If this is already on, create a 4th PC and let ypur player have 2 PC (I don't like this but it could work)

2)as the DM's Manual says: 2 x CR are equal to x+2 ECL...so two 9 CR are a 11 ECL (two 10 CR are a 12 ECL and so on)....but what if one is a 9 CR and the 2nd is a 7 or 8 CR? maybe with a little amount of experiment you can find the right "formula"

2,5) insted of use 1 or 2 monster try to use a lot (from 3 to 6 or more if you prefer) of "minor" CR....this could be a challenge, especially if they act in "clever" way

....and dont forget NPC's....they are GREAT challenges.
lockdar
08-30-05, 05:04 AM I already have a NPC tagging along, it's the one going for Mystic Theurge :)

I have done some experimenting with more monsters of a lower CR (CR2 or 3) to get to the right challenge. The most fun we've had are encounters like that. Try to shield you wizard from enemies so he can cast his spells while 12 orcs are coming in from all sides :) Parties hate it when the wizard then decides that using the fireball on his feet would be the most prudent idea :D

NPC enemies will be joining the campaign next time since their archnemesis just got introduced. That way you can indeed make a very balanced yet challenging fight.

Trying to combine 2 or 3 monsters to make the right CR rating hasn't been so succesfull so far (my fault) but indeed with some practive I will get there.

Thanks for the suggestions :)
Demetrios
08-30-05, 06:51 AM I've been dealing with this, but in the opposite direction, as I have a party of 6 instead of the normal 4. But the problem isn't as hard to deal with as you think, actually, if you take a close look at the XP tables in the DMG. For me, the solution is very simple - a typical encounter with a CR +1 above the current level of the party gets them 1.5 XP a normal encounter does, which evens out for a party of 6 (1.5 x 4 (the number in a typical party)). For you, things are a bit more difficult as CR -1 gives you 2/3 normal XP, when you need 3/4. So you should probably mix encounters between the CR equal to the party level and CR -1 of the party level.
Another Gnome
08-30-05, 07:57 AM Something to keep in mind is that there's a delicate balance between experience and treasure gained; a smaller than normal party may advance too fast and leave the characters under-equipped for later levels, while a larger party advances at a slower pace but amasses too much treasure -- unless you make adjustments to the amount of treasure per encounter, to keep the total value of treasure per level close to what the rules suggest.

Having the amount of treasure per individual character become disproportionate is offset by the number of party members, but having too little or too much stuff to share in the first place can become a serious issue at higher levels.
lockdar
08-30-05, 08:19 AM Yea, I had worries about that one myself. But CR 8-9 treasure for a lvl 10-11 party is pretty ok so far. If I start to notice that they are getting under equipped I can always add some small items here and there. I'm making sure that they have enough consumables ready since with only 3 people you haven't got much margin for error. With consumables I mean potions/scrolls and sometimes a wand or 2. These items can pretty much tip the balance in the favor of the party when things get really tough.
jim9311
08-30-05, 02:17 PM Don't forget that the monsters or Npcs that the party encounters are not mindless zombies. They should use all the cunning and tactics that their intelligence allows. If they have special abilities and magic they should use it. I found myself, in my early days of DMing, not giving the monsters, etc a chance because they were just charge in and kill. The same as most of us played our first characters, i suspect. Once i made the attackers use ambushes, traps, summon spells, etc. that they were more than obstacle to fight through and became a challenge.
Aylomeizen
08-31-05, 08:32 AM I'd suggest that your party should look into hirelings - thieves or bards are a good pick, as it seems that the party you've listed would have quite a bit of trouble dungeoneering.
shadevarr
08-31-05, 10:10 AM I've been running 2-3 players for the past 2 years and it's not that hard. Just increase the CR by 50% only for the purposes of determining a fair encounter and it would work nicely all the way down to 1 player. Hence a 15th level character should be able to solo a Bebilith, or a party of 3 13th levels. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lockdar 08-30-05, 03:49 AM	I'm running a new campaign with 2 of my friends that features the return of the Elves to Fearun. We've been enjoying ourselves alot so far but I have a bit of a problem finding the right CR monsters for a 3man party. All the CR's are rated for more people in a party so I've been trying with CR's 1 or 2 levels lower then the party yet it doesn't seem to be working out. Sometimes the monster gets whacked before it even knew what happened and sometimes I have to do a bit of bending to actually give them a chance. This has happened in a variety of encounters so far. Has anyone here ever had any experience with running a campaign for a 3-man party? The party consists out of these characters: - Female Gold Elf - Wiz10/Clr1 (going for Mystic Theurge) - Male Gold Elf - Fighter10/Wiz1 (going for Bladesinger/Spellsword) - Female Wood Elf - Druid11 - Will prolly level to 20 We've managed to get together a good variety of characters cause there are only 3 of us :) So any advices on running a 3man campaign?
folletrap 08-30-05, 04:45 AM	A thinked about 2,5 ;) solutions: 1)introduce a NPC guided by the DM. If this is already on, create a 4th PC and let ypur player have 2 PC (I don't like this but it could work) 2)as the DM's Manual says: 2 x CR are equal to x+2 ECL...so two 9 CR are a 11 ECL (two 10 CR are a 12 ECL and so on)....but what if one is a 9 CR and the 2nd is a 7 or 8 CR? maybe with a little amount of experiment you can find the right "formula" 2,5) insted of use 1 or 2 monster try to use a lot (from 3 to 6 or more if you prefer) of "minor" CR....this could be a challenge, especially if they act in "clever" way ....and dont forget NPC's....they are GREAT challenges.
lockdar 08-30-05, 05:04 AM	I already have a NPC tagging along, it's the one going for Mystic Theurge :) I have done some experimenting with more monsters of a lower CR (CR2 or 3) to get to the right challenge. The most fun we've had are encounters like that. Try to shield you wizard from enemies so he can cast his spells while 12 orcs are coming in from all sides :) Parties hate it when the wizard then decides that using the fireball on his feet would be the most prudent idea :D NPC enemies will be joining the campaign next time since their archnemesis just got introduced. That way you can indeed make a very balanced yet challenging fight. Trying to combine 2 or 3 monsters to make the right CR rating hasn't been so succesfull so far (my fault) but indeed with some practive I will get there. Thanks for the suggestions :)
Demetrios 08-30-05, 06:51 AM	I've been dealing with this, but in the opposite direction, as I have a party of 6 instead of the normal 4. But the problem isn't as hard to deal with as you think, actually, if you take a close look at the XP tables in the DMG. For me, the solution is very simple - a typical encounter with a CR +1 above the current level of the party gets them 1.5 XP a normal encounter does, which evens out for a party of 6 (1.5 x 4 (the number in a typical party)). For you, things are a bit more difficult as CR -1 gives you 2/3 normal XP, when you need 3/4. So you should probably mix encounters between the CR equal to the party level and CR -1 of the party level.
Another Gnome 08-30-05, 07:57 AM	Something to keep in mind is that there's a delicate balance between experience and treasure gained; a smaller than normal party may advance too fast and leave the characters under-equipped for later levels, while a larger party advances at a slower pace but amasses too much treasure -- unless you make adjustments to the amount of treasure per encounter, to keep the total value of treasure per level close to what the rules suggest. Having the amount of treasure per individual character become disproportionate is offset by the number of party members, but having too little or too much stuff to share in the first place can become a serious issue at higher levels.
lockdar 08-30-05, 08:19 AM	Yea, I had worries about that one myself. But CR 8-9 treasure for a lvl 10-11 party is pretty ok so far. If I start to notice that they are getting under equipped I can always add some small items here and there. I'm making sure that they have enough consumables ready since with only 3 people you haven't got much margin for error. With consumables I mean potions/scrolls and sometimes a wand or 2. These items can pretty much tip the balance in the favor of the party when things get really tough.
jim9311 08-30-05, 02:17 PM	Don't forget that the monsters or Npcs that the party encounters are not mindless zombies. They should use all the cunning and tactics that their intelligence allows. If they have special abilities and magic they should use it. I found myself, in my early days of DMing, not giving the monsters, etc a chance because they were just charge in and kill. The same as most of us played our first characters, i suspect. Once i made the attackers use ambushes, traps, summon spells, etc. that they were more than obstacle to fight through and became a challenge.
Aylomeizen 08-31-05, 08:32 AM	I'd suggest that your party should look into hirelings - thieves or bards are a good pick, as it seems that the party you've listed would have quite a bit of trouble dungeoneering.
shadevarr 08-31-05, 10:10 AM	I've been running 2-3 players for the past 2 years and it's not that hard. Just increase the CR by 50% only for the purposes of determining a fair encounter and it would work nicely all the way down to 1 player. Hence a 15th level character should be able to solo a Bebilith, or a party of 3 13th levels. :P