the "Harpers" [Archive] - Wizards Community

the "Harpers" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kaeso
07-19-06, 05:16 PM Ok, I know this is really stupid, please don't flame me, but... why "Harpers?" What do harps have to do with diplomacy and negotiating peace? I like the idea of the Harpers, but the name just annoys me. Honestly, every time I see "Those Who Harp," I get a nervous twitch. Is anyone else annoyed by the pointless name?
Faraer
07-19-06, 07:10 PM Have you read about the origins of the Harpers?

Music is pretty obvious symbolism for an organization dedicated to harmony and the furthering of art and lore -- indeed, this is one of the Realms' best-developed themes.
GothicDan
07-19-06, 07:32 PM Remember - never critisize until you have an idea about what's going on. :) Always read first, or at least ask others who have read!
Krash
07-19-06, 08:10 PM One of the original founders and helpers of this fledgling organisation was the "Lady Steel", Dathlue Mistwinter, last of her house. Her family symbol incorporated a crescent moon and a harp and it was decided that this would be the symbol of the group.

In the early days in Myth Drannor, the group would meet in isolated forest clearings, led there by the playing of a harp.

So essentially, the harp symbol has played a major role since the group's inception.

-- George Krashos
kaeso
07-20-06, 12:45 AM Ok, that is interesting after all. Sorry for my ignorance. :)
Joffre_Tremblant
07-20-06, 01:58 AM Oddly enough I really dislike the Harpers from an out of character standpoint. Always meddling, always aloof, always thinking they know best. Perhaps that is why I like putting them in my campaigns, I hate them so much that I know something interesting will come of it. I do, however, like the history of their foundation and the Khelben rift that has formed. Evil all across Faerun will certainly breath a sigh of relief if the Harpers collapse into numerous individual splinter cells. Not to mention I would be able to do more without invoking the greater wrath of the organization.
Nevynxxx
07-20-06, 07:13 AM Oddly enough I really dislike the Harpers from an out of character standpoint. Always meddling, always aloof, always thinking they know best. Perhaps that is why I like putting them in my campaigns, I hate them so much that I know something interesting will come of it. I do, however, like the history of their foundation and the Khelben rift that has formed. Evil all across Faerun will certainly breath a sigh of relief if the Harpers collapse into numerous individual splinter cells. Not to mention I would be able to do more without invoking the greater wrath of the organization.

Thinking of thise side of the harpers, I also like the pun on "Those who harp" as in "verb (harp on) talk or write persistently and tediously on a particular topic. - AskOxford". Does that not fit Elminster quit nicely? :)
Brand_X
07-20-06, 11:35 AM Other than the part in the Waterdeep supplement where else is the Khelben rift written about?

I have been interested in what books may cover this.

Brand X
Faraer
07-20-06, 12:24 PM Cloak & Dagger (http://paizo.com/store/brand/forgottenRealms/roleplayingGames/2ndEdition/v5748btpy7mke) and (I believe) Blackstaff.
Old Sage
07-21-06, 04:19 AM Ok, I know this is really stupid, please don't flame me, but... why "Harpers?" What do harps have to do with diplomacy and negotiating peace? I like the idea of the Harpers, but the name just annoys me. Honestly, every time I see "Those Who Harp," I get a nervous twitch. Is anyone else annoyed by the pointless name?Ed's Code of the Harpers touches on this a bit as well.
Old Sage
07-21-06, 04:20 AM Other than the part in the Waterdeep supplement where else is the Khelben rift written about?

I have been interested in what books may cover this.

Brand XIn addition to the sources Faraer mentions above, Steven Schend has also shared a few intriguing tidbits at Candlekeep.

See the "Ed's Answers" URL in my sig for the compiled reply files.
Voran
08-07-06, 10:20 PM I got the impression of "Harp Harp Harp, ***** ***** *****", people who meddle alot too :)
dragonheart
08-08-06, 10:08 AM What do harps have to do with diplomacy and negotiating peace?
this in part goes back to the celtic bards - who were not only musicians and performers but also the diplomats and lore keepers. If a celtic king had 3 sons (that lived to adulthood) 1 would become the king, one would become the chief druid and the thrid would become the bard. So the concept of the bard as keeper of tales and as diplomat enters D&D from that source and is expanded in Faerun with the harpers at twighlight and then the Hapers & Heralds. - spies, diplomats and meddling "do-gooders" :D
kaeso
08-09-06, 01:38 AM :weep: But why harps... thank you all for the explanations, I realize now that I just can't stand harps. I honestly can't say why, they just... annoy me. I think I'll have to come up with a better name, though I'm not quite sure the 'fluters' works :thinks:
BadCatMan
08-09-06, 02:09 AM Kazooers?

Trombonists?

Pianists?
Lord Karsus
08-09-06, 11:38 PM :weep: But why harps... thank you all for the explanations, I realize now that I just can't stand harps. I honestly can't say why, they just... annoy me. I think I'll have to come up with a better name, though I'm not quite sure the 'fluters' works :thinks:

-Actually, it's 'Floutists', not 'Fluters'. ;)
dragonheart
08-09-06, 11:57 PM why harps? because they were/are teh traditional instruments of the orgiginal celtic bards that the bard class was based on. the lap harp in its different forms is found as one of the very earliest stringed instruments in almost every culture. in Greece its the Lyre so you could call them lyrists exceept taht somehow I think it would get changed around here to leerists (mostly leering at storm :P )
theartistformerlyknownas
08-12-06, 04:59 AM According to Judeo-Christian legends, All the Angels of Heaven play harps in lament for dying mortal souls, guiding them back to the Creator (where the image of angels playing harps comes from).

In the Talmud, tales tell that with the destruction of the Second Temple at the hands of the Romans, the Jews hung their harps from the branches of trees, and took an oath to never play musical instuments in worship until the founding of the Third and final Temple.

The harp is a dual symbol of tragedy and hope, of sadness and joy, of triumph and defeat. No symbol would be more fitting for such an organization.

Having a personal problem with a traditional musical instrument that dates back thousands of years in numerous cultures, and has found its way into modern fantasy is no reason to change the title of a paticular organization. If you don't like the name, join the Moonstars.
Bladesong
08-12-06, 02:19 PM I always thought that they were called "Harpers" because there were a lot of bards in the group.
kaeso
08-14-06, 04:07 PM According to Judeo-Christian legends, All the Angels of Heaven play harps in lament for dying mortal souls, guiding them back to the Creator (where the image of angels playing harps comes from).

In the Talmud, tales tell that with the destruction of the Second Temple at the hands of the Romans, the Jews hung their harps from the branches of trees, and took an oath to never play musical instuments in worship until the founding of the Third and final Temple.

The harp is a dual symbol of tragedy and hope, of sadness and joy, of triumph and defeat. No symbol would be more fitting for such an organization.

Having a personal problem with a traditional musical instrument that dates back thousands of years in numerous cultures, and has found its way into modern fantasy is no reason to change the title of a paticular organization. If you don't like the name, join the Moonstars.

Now I am persuaded. Once again and finally, sorry for my ignorance. That history is just... awesome.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kaeso 07-19-06, 05:16 PM	Ok, I know this is really stupid, please don't flame me, but... why "Harpers?" What do harps have to do with diplomacy and negotiating peace? I like the idea of the Harpers, but the name just annoys me. Honestly, every time I see "Those Who Harp," I get a nervous twitch. Is anyone else annoyed by the pointless name?
Faraer 07-19-06, 07:10 PM	Have you read about the origins of the Harpers? Music is pretty obvious symbolism for an organization dedicated to harmony and the furthering of art and lore -- indeed, this is one of the Realms' best-developed themes.
GothicDan 07-19-06, 07:32 PM	Remember - never critisize until you have an idea about what's going on. :) Always read first, or at least ask others who have read!
Krash 07-19-06, 08:10 PM	One of the original founders and helpers of this fledgling organisation was the "Lady Steel", Dathlue Mistwinter, last of her house. Her family symbol incorporated a crescent moon and a harp and it was decided that this would be the symbol of the group. In the early days in Myth Drannor, the group would meet in isolated forest clearings, led there by the playing of a harp. So essentially, the harp symbol has played a major role since the group's inception. -- George Krashos
kaeso 07-20-06, 12:45 AM	Ok, that is interesting after all. Sorry for my ignorance. :)
Joffre_Tremblant 07-20-06, 01:58 AM	Oddly enough I really dislike the Harpers from an out of character standpoint. Always meddling, always aloof, always thinking they know best. Perhaps that is why I like putting them in my campaigns, I hate them so much that I know something interesting will come of it. I do, however, like the history of their foundation and the Khelben rift that has formed. Evil all across Faerun will certainly breath a sigh of relief if the Harpers collapse into numerous individual splinter cells. Not to mention I would be able to do more without invoking the greater wrath of the organization.
Nevynxxx 07-20-06, 07:13 AM	Oddly enough I really dislike the Harpers from an out of character standpoint. Always meddling, always aloof, always thinking they know best. Perhaps that is why I like putting them in my campaigns, I hate them so much that I know something interesting will come of it. I do, however, like the history of their foundation and the Khelben rift that has formed. Evil all across Faerun will certainly breath a sigh of relief if the Harpers collapse into numerous individual splinter cells. Not to mention I would be able to do more without invoking the greater wrath of the organization. Thinking of thise side of the harpers, I also like the pun on "Those who harp" as in "verb (harp on) talk or write persistently and tediously on a particular topic. - AskOxford". Does that not fit Elminster quit nicely? :)
Brand_X 07-20-06, 11:35 AM	Other than the part in the Waterdeep supplement where else is the Khelben rift written about? I have been interested in what books may cover this. Brand X
Faraer 07-20-06, 12:24 PM	Cloak & Dagger (http://paizo.com/store/brand/forgottenRealms/roleplayingGames/2ndEdition/v5748btpy7mke) and (I believe) Blackstaff.
Old Sage 07-21-06, 04:19 AM	Ok, I know this is really stupid, please don't flame me, but... why "Harpers?" What do harps have to do with diplomacy and negotiating peace? I like the idea of the Harpers, but the name just annoys me. Honestly, every time I see "Those Who Harp," I get a nervous twitch. Is anyone else annoyed by the pointless name?Ed's Code of the Harpers touches on this a bit as well.
Old Sage 07-21-06, 04:20 AM	Other than the part in the Waterdeep supplement where else is the Khelben rift written about? I have been interested in what books may cover this. Brand XIn addition to the sources Faraer mentions above, Steven Schend has also shared a few intriguing tidbits at Candlekeep. See the "Ed's Answers" URL in my sig for the compiled reply files.
Voran 08-07-06, 10:20 PM	I got the impression of "Harp Harp Harp, *** * ***", people who meddle alot too :)
dragonheart 08-08-06, 10:08 AM	What do harps have to do with diplomacy and negotiating peace? this in part goes back to the celtic bards - who were not only musicians and performers but also the diplomats and lore keepers. If a celtic king had 3 sons (that lived to adulthood) 1 would become the king, one would become the chief druid and the thrid would become the bard. So the concept of the bard as keeper of tales and as diplomat enters D&D from that source and is expanded in Faerun with the harpers at twighlight and then the Hapers & Heralds. - spies, diplomats and meddling "do-gooders" :D
kaeso 08-09-06, 01:38 AM	:weep: But why harps... thank you all for the explanations, I realize now that I just can't stand harps. I honestly can't say why, they just... annoy me. I think I'll have to come up with a better name, though I'm not quite sure the 'fluters' works :thinks:
BadCatMan 08-09-06, 02:09 AM	Kazooers? Trombonists? Pianists?
Lord Karsus 08-09-06, 11:38 PM	:weep: But why harps... thank you all for the explanations, I realize now that I just can't stand harps. I honestly can't say why, they just... annoy me. I think I'll have to come up with a better name, though I'm not quite sure the 'fluters' works :thinks: -Actually, it's 'Floutists', not 'Fluters'. ;)
dragonheart 08-09-06, 11:57 PM	why harps? because they were/are teh traditional instruments of the orgiginal celtic bards that the bard class was based on. the lap harp in its different forms is found as one of the very earliest stringed instruments in almost every culture. in Greece its the Lyre so you could call them lyrists exceept taht somehow I think it would get changed around here to leerists (mostly leering at storm :P )
theartistformerlyknownas 08-12-06, 04:59 AM	According to Judeo-Christian legends, All the Angels of Heaven play harps in lament for dying mortal souls, guiding them back to the Creator (where the image of angels playing harps comes from). In the Talmud, tales tell that with the destruction of the Second Temple at the hands of the Romans, the Jews hung their harps from the branches of trees, and took an oath to never play musical instuments in worship until the founding of the Third and final Temple. The harp is a dual symbol of tragedy and hope, of sadness and joy, of triumph and defeat. No symbol would be more fitting for such an organization. Having a personal problem with a traditional musical instrument that dates back thousands of years in numerous cultures, and has found its way into modern fantasy is no reason to change the title of a paticular organization. If you don't like the name, join the Moonstars.
Bladesong 08-12-06, 02:19 PM	I always thought that they were called "Harpers" because there were a lot of bards in the group.
kaeso 08-14-06, 04:07 PM	According to Judeo-Christian legends, All the Angels of Heaven play harps in lament for dying mortal souls, guiding them back to the Creator (where the image of angels playing harps comes from). In the Talmud, tales tell that with the destruction of the Second Temple at the hands of the Romans, the Jews hung their harps from the branches of trees, and took an oath to never play musical instuments in worship until the founding of the Third and final Temple. The harp is a dual symbol of tragedy and hope, of sadness and joy, of triumph and defeat. No symbol would be more fitting for such an organization. Having a personal problem with a traditional musical instrument that dates back thousands of years in numerous cultures, and has found its way into modern fantasy is no reason to change the title of a paticular organization. If you don't like the name, join the Moonstars. Now I am persuaded. Once again and finally, sorry for my ignorance. That history is just... awesome.