The Common Tongue [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Common Tongue [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Grishmal
12-08-06, 03:13 AM What's the proper name for Faerunian Common. Zakhara's is Midani. Kara-Tur's in Shou (or is it Shang-Chou?). So does Faerunina Common have a name? What about some of the other trade languages like Undercommon or Deep Common?
The Heretic
12-08-06, 08:20 AM I find common to be artificially contrived; done for the benefit of the manufacturers of D&D in order to maintain a degree of consistency with the core line. I have held this opinion since 1E.

In my game, I outlaw common. It never existed. Learn some languages. Esperanto is no-no.
GothicDan
12-08-06, 12:14 PM I agree with Heretic.

As to there being a specific 'name'? I'm not sure if there's one for it, actually.
Halidan
12-08-06, 05:46 PM For the most part, I use the langauge system developed by Tom Costa and printed in the Dragon Magazine 1999 Annual. It's a more complex version (with various dialects under the main language families) of what appeared in the FRCS.

Since most of my campaigns are located in the dalelands, Chondathan is the most commonly spoken language, and for the most part takes the place of a "common tounge."
Lord Karsus
12-08-06, 06:22 PM -Although I don't technically have the authority to do so, I pronounce 'Common' will forevermore be known as 'Faerūnian'.

There, all better...;)
Borris
12-08-06, 06:47 PM In my games, it's called the Common tongue. It's not a full spoken language, but rather a trade language, bordering on pigdin, that allows merchants and diplomats from different countries to work together, although it's always better to have a "real" language in common. (no pun intended)
Lord Karsus
12-08-06, 07:09 PM In my games, it's called the Common tongue. It's not a full spoken language, but rather a trade language, bordering on pigdin, that allows merchants and diplomats from different countries to work together, although it's always better to have a "real" language in common. (no pun intended)

-For the most part, that is what Commo-er, Faerūnian is. It is based on pidgin Chondathan, is still closely related to that language, and is really nothing more than a way for people to be able to be barely able communicate that doesn't involve magic.
Gray Richardson
12-08-06, 07:32 PM The Common Tongue evolved as a trade language about 2000 years ago around the Lake of Steam area where Jhaamdath butted up against Calimshan. This ancient form of common was called Thorass, which is where the alphabet also gets its name.

Thorass was a mixture of Jhaamdathan and Alzhedo, the language of Calimshan, which itself was a mixture of Midani (the language of Zakhara) and Auran (the language of the Elemental Plane of Air) which came from Zakharan immigrants to the area subsisting for so long under Djinni rule.

Thorass was originally a pidgin language, that is to say it was a very basic trade language used where two cultures mix that has a limited vocabulary combining words from both languages with most grammatical elements removed or very simplified.

The Jhaamdathan and Calishite traders spread the language through commerce north along the Sword Coast and all around the Sea of Fallen Stars.

Just as Jhaamdathan morphed with time into modern Chondathan, so too did Thorass morph over the past 2000 years into the Modern Common tongue. Modern Common sounds a lot like a pidgin version of Chondathan with Alzhedo elements and probably stray loan words from ports and cultures all around Faerun. Thorass probably compares to modern Common in the same way that Old or Middle English sounds like when compared to Modern English.

Common is not meant to be a complete language. It is a basic vocabulary consisting mostly of trading terms and words for communicating with laborers and such. It is not a poetic language. It is not meant for writing literature. It is not great for discussing complex concepts such as philosophy, magical arts, or religious precepts. Although, perhaps such complex ideas might still be communicated awkwardly using Common if one employed long rambling sentences and phrases where a single word might convey the meaning better in another language.

Common is not spoken as a main language. Though everyone probably knows a little bit of Common as a second language.

You can read more about the Common Tongue in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (p.84) and in Races of Faerun in the Chondathan and Calimshan sections.
Grishmal
12-09-06, 03:26 AM So where did undercommon come from. Is it based on drow or something else?
Halidan
12-09-06, 01:44 PM It's another pidgin language - this time made up of bits and pieces of the langauages of various creatures living in the caverns far beneath the surface of Faerun.

It's used to facilitate trade amoung the races of the Underdark.
Lord Karsus
12-09-06, 06:52 PM So where did undercommon come from. Is it based on drow or something else?

-It is most likely heavily based on Duergar, Svirfneblin, and Drow, since they are the three main "trading" races in the Underdark. Beholders, Illithid (Though they don't actually have a language), and things even less savory than those two really keep to themselves, for the most part.
Prendoriasslyth
12-09-06, 07:22 PM I believe "common" is the actual name for it. In various novels, not only to the authors mention characters using "common", but the characters call it that in dialogue. It's correct that it is a trade language, something most regions learn to communicate on basic levels with those of any other region.

Undercommon is simply the same thing, only in the underdark. It's most likely a different tongue than common, but just like it's above-ground counterpart, it's an underdark-wide language used for trade, outside of languages such as Drow, Illithidii (I'm assuming that's a proper word :P), Duergar, etc.
Lord Karsus
12-09-06, 07:57 PM ...Illithidii...

-Illithid actually do not speak, but rather communicate directly into the minds of their subjects, via their psionic abilities.
Gray Richardson
12-10-06, 09:32 AM I could not find a source that tells us what the history or parent languages of Undercommon are. But I think I have found a clue.

Oddly enough, undercommon is written with the Espruar alphabet. Sverfneblin, Duergar, Dwarven, Gnome, and Terran are all written with the Dethek alphabet. Despite the fact that Dethek is easier to carve or scratch into stone and it's distinct blocky lines make it easier to read in the dark and low light, Undercommon is still written with the thin, swooping, elegant tracings of elven letters.

The only people who use the Espruar alphabet for their native tongue in the Underdark are the Drow. This would seem a good indicator that Undercommon is based on the Drow tongue. In addition to being a drow pidgin, it likely contains a mix of Duergar, Gnome, Svirfneblin, Dwarven, and Terran elements as well. Undercommon probably started as a way for Drow to command their captured slaves and conquered holdings. Trade was probably a secondary concern to them.
Faraer
12-10-06, 10:56 AM Tom Costa's "Speaking in Tongues" seems to abandon Common in favour of Trade Pidgin and other limited common tongues. Since language difficulties have little part in Realmslore or heroic fantasy generally, I prefer to have most people speak Common fluently, with regional languages taking a minor part.
BrianCritchley
12-10-06, 03:53 PM Tom Costa's "Speaking in Tongues" seems to abandon Common in favour of Trade Pidgin and other limited common tongues. Since language difficulties have little part in Realmslore or heroic fantasy generally, I prefer to have most people speak Common fluently, with regional languages taking a minor part.

agreed how often do you have linquistic difficulties in a FR novel. that being said it's popped up, often in letters, in my game. sure they may speak common well eneugh anywhere but if fzoul is sending a letter to a subondinate in the moonsea you can be dead sure the letter'll be in damarian

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grishmal 12-08-06, 03:13 AM	What's the proper name for Faerunian Common. Zakhara's is Midani. Kara-Tur's in Shou (or is it Shang-Chou?). So does Faerunina Common have a name? What about some of the other trade languages like Undercommon or Deep Common?
The Heretic 12-08-06, 08:20 AM	I find common to be artificially contrived; done for the benefit of the manufacturers of D&D in order to maintain a degree of consistency with the core line. I have held this opinion since 1E. In my game, I outlaw common. It never existed. Learn some languages. Esperanto is no-no.
GothicDan 12-08-06, 12:14 PM	I agree with Heretic. As to there being a specific 'name'? I'm not sure if there's one for it, actually.
Halidan 12-08-06, 05:46 PM	For the most part, I use the langauge system developed by Tom Costa and printed in the Dragon Magazine 1999 Annual. It's a more complex version (with various dialects under the main language families) of what appeared in the FRCS. Since most of my campaigns are located in the dalelands, Chondathan is the most commonly spoken language, and for the most part takes the place of a "common tounge."
Lord Karsus 12-08-06, 06:22 PM	-Although I don't technically have the authority to do so, I pronounce 'Common' will forevermore be known as 'Faerūnian'. There, all better...;)
Borris 12-08-06, 06:47 PM	In my games, it's called the Common tongue. It's not a full spoken language, but rather a trade language, bordering on pigdin, that allows merchants and diplomats from different countries to work together, although it's always better to have a "real" language in common. (no pun intended)
Lord Karsus 12-08-06, 07:09 PM	In my games, it's called the Common tongue. It's not a full spoken language, but rather a trade language, bordering on pigdin, that allows merchants and diplomats from different countries to work together, although it's always better to have a "real" language in common. (no pun intended) -For the most part, that is what Commo-er, Faerūnian is. It is based on pidgin Chondathan, is still closely related to that language, and is really nothing more than a way for people to be able to be barely able communicate that doesn't involve magic.
Gray Richardson 12-08-06, 07:32 PM	The Common Tongue evolved as a trade language about 2000 years ago around the Lake of Steam area where Jhaamdath butted up against Calimshan. This ancient form of common was called Thorass, which is where the alphabet also gets its name. Thorass was a mixture of Jhaamdathan and Alzhedo, the language of Calimshan, which itself was a mixture of Midani (the language of Zakhara) and Auran (the language of the Elemental Plane of Air) which came from Zakharan immigrants to the area subsisting for so long under Djinni rule. Thorass was originally a pidgin language, that is to say it was a very basic trade language used where two cultures mix that has a limited vocabulary combining words from both languages with most grammatical elements removed or very simplified. The Jhaamdathan and Calishite traders spread the language through commerce north along the Sword Coast and all around the Sea of Fallen Stars. Just as Jhaamdathan morphed with time into modern Chondathan, so too did Thorass morph over the past 2000 years into the Modern Common tongue. Modern Common sounds a lot like a pidgin version of Chondathan with Alzhedo elements and probably stray loan words from ports and cultures all around Faerun. Thorass probably compares to modern Common in the same way that Old or Middle English sounds like when compared to Modern English. Common is not meant to be a complete language. It is a basic vocabulary consisting mostly of trading terms and words for communicating with laborers and such. It is not a poetic language. It is not meant for writing literature. It is not great for discussing complex concepts such as philosophy, magical arts, or religious precepts. Although, perhaps such complex ideas might still be communicated awkwardly using Common if one employed long rambling sentences and phrases where a single word might convey the meaning better in another language. Common is not spoken as a main language. Though everyone probably knows a little bit of Common as a second language. You can read more about the Common Tongue in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (p.84) and in Races of Faerun in the Chondathan and Calimshan sections.
Grishmal 12-09-06, 03:26 AM	So where did undercommon come from. Is it based on drow or something else?
Halidan 12-09-06, 01:44 PM	It's another pidgin language - this time made up of bits and pieces of the langauages of various creatures living in the caverns far beneath the surface of Faerun. It's used to facilitate trade amoung the races of the Underdark.
Lord Karsus 12-09-06, 06:52 PM	So where did undercommon come from. Is it based on drow or something else? -It is most likely heavily based on Duergar, Svirfneblin, and Drow, since they are the three main "trading" races in the Underdark. Beholders, Illithid (Though they don't actually have a language), and things even less savory than those two really keep to themselves, for the most part.
Prendoriasslyth 12-09-06, 07:22 PM	I believe "common" is the actual name for it. In various novels, not only to the authors mention characters using "common", but the characters call it that in dialogue. It's correct that it is a trade language, something most regions learn to communicate on basic levels with those of any other region. Undercommon is simply the same thing, only in the underdark. It's most likely a different tongue than common, but just like it's above-ground counterpart, it's an underdark-wide language used for trade, outside of languages such as Drow, Illithidii (I'm assuming that's a proper word :P), Duergar, etc.
Lord Karsus 12-09-06, 07:57 PM	...Illithidii... -Illithid actually do not speak, but rather communicate directly into the minds of their subjects, via their psionic abilities.
Gray Richardson 12-10-06, 09:32 AM	I could not find a source that tells us what the history or parent languages of Undercommon are. But I think I have found a clue. Oddly enough, undercommon is written with the Espruar alphabet. Sverfneblin, Duergar, Dwarven, Gnome, and Terran are all written with the Dethek alphabet. Despite the fact that Dethek is easier to carve or scratch into stone and it's distinct blocky lines make it easier to read in the dark and low light, Undercommon is still written with the thin, swooping, elegant tracings of elven letters. The only people who use the Espruar alphabet for their native tongue in the Underdark are the Drow. This would seem a good indicator that Undercommon is based on the Drow tongue. In addition to being a drow pidgin, it likely contains a mix of Duergar, Gnome, Svirfneblin, Dwarven, and Terran elements as well. Undercommon probably started as a way for Drow to command their captured slaves and conquered holdings. Trade was probably a secondary concern to them.
Faraer 12-10-06, 10:56 AM	Tom Costa's "Speaking in Tongues" seems to abandon Common in favour of Trade Pidgin and other limited common tongues. Since language difficulties have little part in Realmslore or heroic fantasy generally, I prefer to have most people speak Common fluently, with regional languages taking a minor part.
BrianCritchley 12-10-06, 03:53 PM	Tom Costa's "Speaking in Tongues" seems to abandon Common in favour of Trade Pidgin and other limited common tongues. Since language difficulties have little part in Realmslore or heroic fantasy generally, I prefer to have most people speak Common fluently, with regional languages taking a minor part. agreed how often do you have linquistic difficulties in a FR novel. that being said it's popped up, often in letters, in my game. sure they may speak common well eneugh anywhere but if fzoul is sending a letter to a subondinate in the moonsea you can be dead sure the letter'll be in damarian