Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tobus Neth 11-15-05, 05:00 PM	Say a paladin kills six pit fiends just outside of town near the woods, deep down at the bottom of a ravine. Will the bodies remain there creating such a vile rotting funk of death. Or will they fade away.
Slime Lord 11-15-05, 05:06 PM	Say a paladin kills six pit fiends just outside of town near the woods, deep down at the bottom of a ravine. Will the bodies remain there creating such a vile rotting funk of death. Or will they fade away. Well, I believe that they would fade away - unsure. I don't think vile rotting funk of death would come from it unless you magically create it.
Dark Wizard 11-15-05, 05:53 PM	I would say that's one badass paladin. :bow: I heard outsiders don't have bodies, their souls are their bodies, but not sure what happens if they enter the prime material plane. Maybe a body is created to house their souls. I recall their essence goes back to their home plane and they 'regenerate.' So the demons killed in the prime really aren't dead, or something like that.
GothicDan 11-15-05, 06:38 PM	In 2E, if a fiend (that being one of the evil Planar Exemplars) was killed on any plane other than its home plane, its soul returned to its home plane and was usually reborn. The duration it took to be reborn depended on the fiend's power, and in some cases they were reborn into lower forms and had to work their way up the ranks again, though they often had their previous underlings in positions of power to quickly promote them up again, in the case of some powerful Baatezu. In 3E, this isn't the same. They're just dead. However, in either case, I believe that the fiend's body is actually physical. I draw this conclusion from the fact that in 3E we have Demonskin Golems and in 2E, in Faces of Evil: The Fiends, it is said that one of the ways to make sure a fiend is permanently dead is by eating its corpse. ;)
Yokinobu 11-15-05, 08:10 PM	I would say that's one badass paladin. :bow: :clap: Too true!
Tobus Neth 11-15-05, 10:45 PM	Meat, no matter where it's from rots...
Rauric 11-15-05, 11:34 PM	I like the idea of the bodies dissipating since they are from another plane. Not sure if that makes sense or if it is the rules but...
Link182 11-15-05, 11:50 PM	Yeah, I have outsiders sent back to their own plane when killed, their body disappearing unless extra dimensional travel is blocked. Still have to work out the details now that I think about it.
Tobus Neth 11-15-05, 11:53 PM	Yeah> Funny your name being Rauric, I used to play a dwarf fighter by that name in 1e, he made to 9th and was killed by (2) Ice devils on the 1st plane of Hell.
Rauric 11-15-05, 11:56 PM	Maybe they go back to the Planes since they are Outsiders and are linked to the Planes. If they die on the Planes they go back to being a dretch or mane or lesser Slaad or whatever fits the outsiders type? How would that work with Celestials though? :confused: Hmmmmmmm...
Rauric 11-16-05, 12:04 AM	Yeah> Funny your name being Rauric, I used to play a dwarf fighter by that name in 1e, he made to 9th and was killed by (2) Ice devils on the 1st plane of Hell. Neat. Rauric is my Rog/Ftr in a FR/Planescape game. I was involved in the Bloodwar when the game ended. I use Rauric and some of the other PCs from that campaign in my current Silver Marches/Nesme' campaign. He was a loud abrasive letch that ended up being the proups leader due to some good ideas he kept coming up with. Plus he stopped the group from killing every evil outsider they saw. Fun times. He had a odd sonic(screaming) battleaxe that would shout "huzzah" everytime it hit opponets. It sounded just like the big lout too. ;)
Shemeska the Marauder 11-16-05, 12:48 AM	I'd say no. The bodies would vanish or decay in a way tangentially related to their nature: clouds of noxious fumes, puddles of slime, pools of acid, swathes of rot and decay on the ground where they fell, their forms burnt into the ground, etc. Fiends don't have bodies in the same sense that mortals do. It's not flesh in the same sense, it's LE, NE, or CE alignment made physically manifest. You kill them, it vanishes back to their home plane, regardless of if the fiend is permenantly dead or not (previous to 3e some fiends could only be killed on their home plane. 3.x has dumbed this down, and just has them all dead regardless of where they are killed, or how powerful they are). The only time I can see it rationalized to have a fiend leave behind a corpse is on its own home plane, but at that point while there may be a corpse, it's literally just a part of the plane at that point. Trying to animate its corpse to make a fiend zombie would be like casting an animate dead spell on a pile of rocks on the same plane. Some fiends might leave behind a 'corpse', but they're not dead if they're still regenerating (such as dretches who just keep coming back, hence 'Faces of Evil' suggesting eating them). Fiend flesh golems are just wierd, but I wouldn't take them as any support for the argument here since 3.x tends to toss out half-baked ideas at the same time it ignores context as much as possible. I can see fiend flesh golems only if the flesh isn't 'dead' but rather the animating spirit for the golem is an actual fiend, rather than the elemental spirits typically used for flesh/clay/stone/iron golems etc.
GothicDan 11-16-05, 03:57 AM	If you are going strictly by 3E? Fiends having corpses is pretty much a definite, since they are indeed permanently dead when they are killed, since you can make fiend skin golems, and because you can make them undead (as of Libris Mortis). This is all ridiculously stupid, of course. If you use 2E, it's a big 'ol no, I'd say.
BrianCritchley 11-16-05, 04:33 AM	if you use a bit of careful logic, 3E didn't change anything GD. you'll note the demonflesh golums are created by planer critters. as for demons being able to be undead, this is a new thing? the demonlich or whatever is something we saw in 2E. remember Orcus returned as an undead critter.
Shemeska the Marauder 11-16-05, 04:44 AM	as for demons being able to be undead, this is a new thing? the demonlich or whatever is something we saw in 2E. remember Orcus returned as an undead critter. The fiendlich was something that Libris Mortis pulled out of thin air as far I knew. Tenebrous in 2e was something else.
Cainan 11-16-05, 05:15 AM	Well, if you want to use novels, in the Last Mythal series the demons, devils and yugoloths like boiled and evaporated when they were slain.
WagnerSika 11-16-05, 08:53 AM	At least with balors you know exactly whats gonna happen with the corpse. *BOOM*. Are balors the only outsiders with Death Throes? I remeber that some other critters have similar ability (frost worm comes to mind).
GothicDan 11-16-05, 09:06 AM	as for demons being able to be undead, this is a new thing? the demonlich or whatever is something we saw in 2E. remember Orcus returned as an undead critter. Tenebrous was incorporeal; no corpse. Pure spirit/energy.
Mula 11-16-05, 10:53 AM	Yep, I believe in 3E outsiders leave corpses like most other creatures. This is cool because you can have all those nasty items made out of fiend and celestial carcasses (demon eye goggles, belt of angel intestines, etc.). Also, you can have undead outsiders. Rotting angel zombies!
WagnerSika 11-17-05, 05:29 AM	Yep, I believe in 3E outsiders leave corpses like most other creatures. This is cool because you can have all those nasty items made out of fiend and celestial carcasses (demon eye goggles, belt of angel intestines, etc.). Also, you can have undead outsiders. Rotting angel zombies! "It will revolutionize the industry." :D http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=193
ferratus 11-27-05, 11:54 AM	This is the difference between summoning and calling spells. Summoning spells (ie. Summon Monster et al) summon a "projection" of a fiend (much like a wizard creates a astral projection spell). Calling spells incarnate a creature from another plane (ie. planar binding, gate) to exist on the material plane. So a Balor summoned with Summon Monster IX would vanish, but a Balor Summoned with Gate would not.
WagnerSika 11-29-05, 05:58 AM	This is the difference between summoning and calling spells. Summoning spells (ie. Summon Monster et al) summon a "projection" of a fiend (much like a wizard creates a astral projection spell). Calling spells incarnate a creature from another plane (ie. planar binding, gate) to exist on the material plane So a Balor summoned with Summon Monster IX would vanish, but a Balor Summoned with Gate would not.. So a summoned balor would not go *boom* when it 'dies'? Damn there goes my 'Exploding Balors galore' trap :P
Aaron L 11-29-05, 07:22 AM	I'd go with the vile rotting funk of death. Nothing natural is going to eat them, but they may have fiendish equivalents of bacteria on them to eventually decay them. And start a small plague after theyre done. The rate of decay is of couse up to you. One demon may be infected with something so nasty that it bubbles away into a cloud of noxious fumes as soon as its body isnt alive to fight the infection anymore, while another could lay there without changing for centuries, seeping demon blood into the surounding forest and corrupting the trees into something horible. Either way has a good, solid mythological feel to it and fits great in D&D. Not only that, but it provides plenty of plot hooks and consequences for a fight with demons. Imagine having a party hired to haul off a couple of demon corpses for disposal, only to discover they are hauling them to an evil wizard to use for experimentation. In 3E, Outsiders are fleshy spirits. They have no souls, their spirit and body are one unit, unlike Prime beings who have a seperate body and soul. Much like the movie The Prophecy. They dont age, or eat or sleep. They still need to breathe, but I assume this was to make them vulnerable to gaseous poisons and spells. Its something Ive changed to allow for demons flying through space:)
Gray Richardson 11-29-05, 08:36 AM	I love the idea of some small scavenger eating the fiendish corpse, and becoming something... other. Fiendish weevils of death! Mosquitoes that can suck not only your blood... but your soul! Swarms of vile squirmy things. (combining the swarm template with the fiendish template) Maybe this is how fiendish oozes are created. Maybe squirrels that feast upon the corpse immediately choke and die, but arise again as vile undead things with an uncanny speed. :devil:
Mula 11-29-05, 09:42 AM	They still need to breathe, but I assume this was to make them vulnerable to gaseous poisons and spells. Its something Ive changed to allow for demons flying through space:) It's also funny because you can drown a solar in a bucket of water! :)
Parcival, the OrcHunter 11-29-05, 09:30 PM	I love the idea of some small scavenger eating the fiendish corpse, and becoming something... other. Fiendish weevils of death! Mosquitoes that can suck not only your blood... but your soul! Swarms of vile squirmy things. (combining the swarm template with the fiendish template) Maybe this is how fiendish oozes are created. Maybe squirrels that feast upon the corpse immediately choke and die, but arise again as vile undead things with an uncanny speed. :devil: Sounds like an issue of the Weekly World News