Post/Author/DateTime	Post
makoma 07-06-04, 07:28 AM	Hey kids, prepare you to see your campaign world slowly being less and less supported, Wotc needs money, and needs to sell new books. 4th ed won't come soon so... Fewer and fewer books will be released, and you will be slowly forced to buy Eberron, as it has been made for Greyhawk years ago with FR. Eberron will include new race, as Pokemon fighter or Super Mario rogue , new monster as Giant ninja turtle and all the five years-15 years old (majority of the people who play in FR ) will spend their money in it. And waterdeep will slowly sink. Let's talk back about it it 1/2 years. Or buy Eberron now if you don't want to waste time and if you want to give plenty of money to Wotc for the great and useful accesory they publish....(irony)
Predah 07-06-04, 07:43 AM	Hello, I don't think WOTC will stop making books for FR. I think in the future more and more books will be coming out for the regions. (Like Silver Marches, Shining South, ...) And if they stop making books for FR, FR is so big that you can still make a lot of adventure's or campaigns! No i will forever be a player in the FR, Eberron is nothing for me! Greetz Predah
Cunning Linguist 07-06-04, 08:17 AM	Of all the stupid.. This is like Microsoft saying. "Well, we are making some cash of this Office pack we have here, but I hear there is also some cash to be made from HTML editors. Lets drop making Office, and just make HTML editors. We don't know if they will sell, but I think that if we eliminate one big cash cow, this other thing MIGHT be just a big a cash cow." Back when WotC took over from TSR, I was afraid FR was going to be lost, so I went down to my local gaming store and asked if they knew anything about it. And this is what they told me: "Here, Forgotten Realms sells more then all the other TSR worlds combined, if WotC pulls the plug on FR, they are letting go of one of there biggest cash cows" TSR back then had lots of worlds: Dragonlace, Ravenloft, Hollow World, Darksun, Planescape, Birthright, Blackmoor, Mystara, Masque of the Red Death, Sundred Empire, just to name a few. Now, WotC has Forgotten Realms, Dragonlace, Eberron and Grayhawk. I don't think the last 3 will ever be able to outsell Forgotten Realms, even if they combined there sale numbers.
EmeraldFox 07-06-04, 10:13 AM	It's not even possible. FR is so unimaginably big that to kill it would undo all the progress that WoTC and TSR has done in the past few years. Which world is constantly releasing books that barely stay on the shelves? Which world has all those wildly popular video games based on it? Which world is the most popular setting in AD&D history, exceeding Greyhawk and Dragonlance in their primes?
jake_lex 07-06-04, 10:21 AM	I think that Eberron is designed for another segment of the RPG market that FR can't really get to. In fantasy writing, there's a growing movement away from the sort of Tolkien-inspired, medieval-set, quest plotline into more sort of alternative, sort-of, but not really modern settings. Think of the work of China Mieville for a good example. Eberron is meant to fit into that sort of framework. FR isn't, really (at least if you follow the official supplements), and that's OK. I think that WOTC is fully capable of supporting both lines.
Kuje31 07-06-04, 11:52 AM	Originally posted by Cunning Linguist Now, WotC has Forgotten Realms, Dragonlace, Eberron and Grayhawk. I don't think the last 3 will ever be able to outsell Forgotten Realms, even if they combined there sale numbers. [/B] Technically WOTC only has the Dragonlance campaign setting, another 3rd party is putting out the rest of the sourcebooks for Dragonlance. WOTC only wanted the campaign setting because it sells the most books.
J. Grenemyer 07-06-04, 05:15 PM	Hello, Anyone with at least a minscule bit of knowledge regarding WotCs marketing strategy knows that campaign settings are at the top tier of gaming progression. This means WotC wants its customers to maintain interest in one or more campaign settings so they buy more products (i.e. the books makoma claims we'll be seeing less and less of over time). BTW I'm surprised nobody reported the opening post. Seems awfully inflamatory to me. :rolleyes:
KingDes 07-07-04, 01:17 AM	please, like myself there are many people who ONLY play forgotten realms. And look. This thing is EXTREAMLY popular. I mean people here know the realms history better then Ed Greenwood himself. Its rather amazing how popular it is. FR will never die, its a legacy that Ed has given us. Thank you ed. Plus the books are extreamly popular and are only growing. W/ the new addition of drow to the surface, and the constat changes they'll have new material comming out all the time. i'm not worried about it, and i'm sure WotC marketing managers have a strong grasp on things...
tariff 07-07-04, 03:28 AM	i'm not worried about it, and i'm sure WotC marketing managers have a strong grasp on things... LoL, you gotta be kiddin right I thought things were better in TSR's days
warlockco 07-07-04, 04:08 AM	Originally posted by tariff LoL, you gotta be kiddin right I thought things were better in TSR's days They were and weren't. The best thing TSR ever did was give Gary the AXE. As to what moves the most. My local gaming store, which is THE GAME STORE for the metro area where we are at, unless people want to deal with mail order or the big retailers. Has 2 full racks dedicated to holding just D&D Core and FR materials. The rest of the D20 stuff has to fight for room on the other 2 racks for D20 stuff. Only thing that has a big room on those 2 racks is the stuff from Sword & Sorcery which has about 1/2 a rack. The only other stuff with that much room is White Wolf and Steve Jackson and that is for their entire line.
tariff 07-07-04, 06:50 AM	No-one said they were dropping the line (not supporting it)anyway did they?, where that rumor come from?. I know there not doing modules, but i gotta say im pretty happy with the other FR material out there.
naturaltwenty 07-07-04, 09:36 AM	Modules don't make money. It's that simple. Core rulebooks make the most (widest audience) followed by campaign material and bringing up the rear are the sourcebooks that address expanded classes and rules (prestige, magic, etc) . Modules are so limited in scope and are tricky at best to pull off. As for Eberron becoming the default setting...meh. WotC has been challenged on every front by d20/OGL producers (Midnight by FFG, Scarred Lands by WW/SS, Kalamar by KenzerCo, etc) that are producing more exciting products than they are. I mean why start a contest looking for something new and different if your staples are starting to sputter? The new market is large scale, epic in scope, campaign settings. Each of the published WotC caters towards a different style of play: FR: Grand heroes fighting epic battles Greyhawk: Gritty, relatively low-magic (depending on your view) where the heroes don't make much difference. Dragonlance: too many revisions for me to keep track of. Eberron: Pulpy post-war action Now these are generalizations but I think accurate ones. FR has reached it's saturation point with the hardcovers that have come out in the recent year or so. The world is set and unless another Time of Troubles or somesuch event occurs it is now your world to do with as you please. Novels not withstanding I don't see where WotC can get more squeezed out of FR. In closing, go out and have fun with FR. There are three editions worth of material that you have to draw from plus countless novels. Axe High. Later, Greg Volz Natural Twenty www.naturaltwenty.com Originally posted by tariff No-one said they were dropping the line (not supporting it)anyway did they?, where that rumor come from?. I know there not doing modules, but i gotta say im pretty happy with the other FR material out there.
Will Brandiman 07-07-04, 09:45 AM	I note the original poster provides no evidence to support his stance and is merely voicing an opinion which he has not yet returned to back up. Anyone else smell troll?
diablos666 07-07-04, 10:28 AM	Yeah, now where's my alchemist's fire? :D
Alac Luin 07-07-04, 12:12 PM	Originally posted by naturaltwenty FR has reached it's saturation point with the hardcovers that have come out in the recent year or so. The world is set and unless another Time of Troubles or somesuch event occurs it is now your world to do with as you please. Novels not withstanding I don't see where WotC can get more squeezed out of FR. In closing, go out and have fun with FR. There are three editions worth of material that you have to draw from plus countless novels. We hardly need another ToT, regardless of the 3 editions worth of material, there are places that have never been fully explored in source book on Faerun, let alone the lands that haven't been explored on the rest of the planet. At the slow rate of 4-5 source books a year, we still have 5 or 6 years to get Faerun covered under 3.X rules. Sure we can find some of it for 1st and 2nd ed, but they are out of print and for many, uneasy to get. It's not our fault that the Realms has many loyal fans that support our setting, enough for them to actually still produce books and support us. Eberron is a good setting, but it may never be the setting of choice for many people, for those people the Realms exist as the realms has a wider appeal then any other setting. That is, unless you group all homebrew worlds into one setting. :D
makoma 07-07-04, 01:00 PM	Wotc commercial politic is clear. Just have a look at the way Eberron is marketed today, this campaign world is planned for a great place. Wotc make lot of averstisings for this campaign world, plan to sell it for nearly all the future video game on psx/xbox and pc,etc.. And even if FR brought them lot of money, as one of you wrote, FR is not the future. for WOtc/Hasbro. Of course they won't supress FR, but things gonna change deeply. Just have a look at the place Eberron took so quickly on magazine, even on wotc site. It never happened, even when Forgotten was released to replace greyhawk (for other reason, but the commercial method was nearly as strong....)
Alac Luin 07-07-04, 01:28 PM	Much of this can be explained in the change in marketing and advertising in the past 20 years. I remember when planescape was being marketed, a new edgy world, full of grit and mystery. New Computer games were released with the planescape logo and all that. And let us not forget spelljammer and dark sun. Planescape did not take over for Forgotten Realms. If I remember correctly, someone from WotC who should be "In The Know" (Richard Baker) did state that as of now, WotC does plan on supporting the Realms for at least the next few years. Sure, they are pushing Eberron, but they are trying to sell a product. FR has good "word of mouth" advertising already in place. To get the word out on a new world, they have to do some aggressive advertising. On the thought of FR not being the future of WotC/Hasbro, well, we have yet to see if Eberron is.
Mel Ann Cholly 07-07-04, 01:43 PM	my line of thinking is this: i have the frcs. i have f&p, mof, rof, and the pgtf. if i'm going to start a new d&d campaign it's going to be on a world i know. i know the realms. i don't know eberron. i'm not about to go out and start buying completely new books just because it's the newest. i'm going to sit back and buy new realms books. and i'm sure i'm not the only one who thinks like this. anyone who's made a large investment into realms merchandise isn't about to turn around and abandon it and start over from scratch with some new campaign setting. and so long as there are people who purchase realms material, wotc will keep making realms material because of this little thing called "supply & demand". as long as there people demanding realms material, supplying realms material = profit.
Cunning Linguist 07-07-04, 02:00 PM	Or what about when Dark Sun was published... two PC games came out of that. Or what about Ravenloft? There was new adventures for Ravenloft in Dungon, info in Dragon, and 2 SSI PC games.. How many PC/consol games does Forgotten Realms have? 18, pluss 2 expansions. Some of whom are best seller games. I'd wager that Nintendo would give up Zelda and Mario games before D&D lost Forgotten Realms.
Athenna 07-07-04, 02:54 PM	FR and Eberron are like comparing Apples and Oranges. They're two completely different worlds tailored to different settings and ultimately different audiences. There will be some crossover, but for the large part they'll be separate. As someone else pointed out, FR is far from complete under 3.X rules. Sure, we have a brief overview of Faerun, but we don't have very indepth for all alreas, like Unapproachable East, or Shining South. Plus, once Faerun is finished, there is the rest of Toril to develop, and I for one would love to see that done. Oh, also, FR is not the default campaign world for D&D, nor is Eberron. IIRC Greyhawk is. Saying that Wizards will drop support for FR would be like saying that they'll stop making original Oreos after they released the chocolate covered ones. Bad example, but you get my idea. THe only way WotC will stop supporting FR is if sales of the books drop off substantially, like the next few releases barely selling. Until that point, i wouldn't worry. No company in their right mind would suddenly drop support for a very popular line of accessories just because they released something different.
Triton 07-07-04, 03:40 PM	I have been gaming for nearly 20 years. I have seen nearly every splinter that TSR and WotC have gone threw. I have seen D&D become Basic, then Intermediate, then Advanced, Expert, and Immortal. I have seen so many campaign settings (just look at the Dragon 320. The first style of vehicle produced was a not the one that is still used today, but it is safe to say that if hover cars are put on the market today, that 10 years from now there will still be more cars than hover cars. The Realms is a viberant, dynamic, and detailed campaign setting. Eberon may well be of an equal callibre, but it will not replace the realms anytime soon. WotC will only stop using this world if it stops RPGs all together. It makes to much money to not keep producing it. I try to buy every FR book released, and I pretty much do, and still I hunger for much more. A FR monthly, like Dragon, more web releases on the FR website of WotC, more NPCs detailed, and the novels are awesome best sellers that never seem to come out fast enough. All these things simple state that FR will reign well into the coming years, and possible for all RPG time.
Gimric 07-07-04, 04:19 PM	I doubt WotC/Hasbro will dump FR anytime soon, if ever, for the reasons already mentioned. However, if they would... I think Ed Greenwood and associates would be able to pick up the ball... face it FR is a great setting like DL, and it found new life!
KingDes 07-07-04, 05:41 PM	If you remember right, Dark Sun was part of FR, just in a different region. As someone else said, they are many differnt places to explore in FR, and thats the great thing about FR. There are so many places, each suited for different people.. And i also agree w/ the comment about not buying anymore books. Eberron might be great for some players, but those of us who are set in FR, know FR, and only want to play FR , we'll still find new exciting material. Eberron might flourish, and yet it might fizzle like a hill giant casting "finger of death". We'll see whats to come.
Kuje31 07-07-04, 06:14 PM	Originally posted by KingDes If you remember right, Dark Sun was part of FR, just in a different region. Aroo? Since when? Athas was a seperate campaign world found on the Prime Material Plane. It was never part of Realmspace though.
Straploknight 07-07-04, 06:26 PM	Originally posted by Alac Luin FR has good "word of mouth" advertising already in place. To get the word out on a new world, they have to do some aggressive advertising. Don't forget brand loyalty. Given the choice between erberron and an FR supplament, I'll buy FR stuff first then if I've got the jink left over I'll consider a new non FR book.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-07-04, 06:28 PM	I still want Planescape as a seperate product line. Those of us who adore the setting, even those of us (like myself) who only discovered it after 3e had already been out, are rabid. If I won the lottery I'd buy the rights to the line and to heck with profit on the books. That's rabid for you. *frothing at the mouth like only an Arcanaloth can* Heck, the inflated prices on ebay for the rarer box sets and books are evidence by themselves that they're sitting on a cash cow without developing it. Does anyone know the sales figures for the 3e MotP? And yes, as much as I like FR, I'd gladly sacrifice it upon the altar of economics just to see Planescape back in print. :D Some of you may feel differently. If so, please see the hungry mezzoloth to my left.
Triton 07-07-04, 09:34 PM	Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakara are all part of the FR. I hope they at least release source books 3.5 for each.
Athenna 07-08-04, 12:51 AM	Kara-Tur is huge, bigger than faerun unless i'm mistaken *grabs her FRCS to check*. Yep, i'm right. They could release source book after source book on that place. I would love that and could greatly use it ^_^ Plus all those unknown lands. There has to be something there!
warlockco 07-08-04, 01:04 AM	Originally posted by Triton Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakara are all part of the FR. I hope they at least release source books 3.5 for each. Unfortunately I don't see Kara-Tur being revived by WotC. Oriental Adventures default setting is in Rokugan (Legend of the Five Rings) there is no information on Kara-Tur other than the tidbits in Unapproachable East, and the few Dragon articles with material for Kara-Tur. Maztica is hard to day, since it never really took off in the first place. Zakara (Al-Qadim) might resurface, but again, it never really took off either.
mortellan 07-08-04, 05:24 AM	makoma have you flipped your wig?
WizO_BigSister 07-08-04, 09:53 AM	Hey people - its alright to disagree with a person, but it isn't alright to make personal attacks.
Boz Shulun 07-08-04, 12:07 PM	I look at it like this. This is just like when a new baby is introduced into a family. The new kid gets all the attention and the other kids wonder, “Do mommy and daddy love the baby more than us?” In most cases the answer is no. The parents love the children all the same but a new baby needs more attention than grown children. D&D is a large family. There are sons and daughters and red headed step-children, but all have a value to the parents (WOTC). Worrying about lack of support and dying campaign worlds is counterproductive and neurotic. The attention span of today’s consumers is miniscule. WOTC would be smart if they want to drive a new campaign world to increase hype about it periodically to boost sales. FR products sell with little need for advertisement. This is all about perception. Everyone is seeing and hearing Eberron and think that their games are going to suffer. Not true. Eberron is just getting the attention of mom and dad right now. When the older kids do something brilliant, WOTC will still turn their attention on them and say with pride, “That’s my kid.” Will there be more emphasis on Eberron in the coming months? Yes. Will there be a decline in FR sourcebooks? Maybe. Will FR die because of it? Only if you let it.
Ranger REG 07-08-04, 04:55 PM	I remembered when Forgotten Realms was the new baby in the family. It appealed to me then (just got out of high school). WotC simply need to reinvent themselves, just like they did 15-plus years ago. Maybe this new generation of D&D gamers will like Eberron the way I like FR back in the 80's. So, don't worry about it. In the next 15 years, Eberron will take a backseat to a new campaign setting, just like Greyhawk have taken a backseat to Forgotten Realms.
Astanphaeus 07-09-04, 12:38 AM	Originally posted by warlockco Zakara (Al-Qadim) might resurface, but again, it never really took off either. Actually, I don't believe that's accurate. My understanding is that Al-Qadim was quite popular (I was among those who loved it). However, from the start, it was designed to be a limited run of products. Which I think is a good idea, really. As for the longevity of the Forgotten Realms... I don't believe it's going anywhere. Even with the introduction of Eberron (and assuming that Eberron garners a large audience, which isn't a given), FR is still the premiere setting for "traditional" play. Furthermore, a lot of products and "trademark properties" are tied into it. That's a source of money that isn't going to be reliquished anytime soon. ~ A.
Auburn 07-10-04, 12:07 AM	I'm a Forgotten Realms fan who's only exposure to it has been in the form of non-P&P RPG products. The world itself has been interesting enough to me that I've considered taking up P&P gaming just to play Forgotten Realms. It's like a fantasy world with superheroes. Just a great world on that alone, but the further development of it makes it even better. Planescape, Spelljammer, Dark Sun, and Ravenloft seem interesting to me, but not enough to try to play them. Eberron does not interest me at all. If Eberron replaces Forgotten Realms I've got no more interest in anything current in D&D. When Forgotten Realms goes so will I.
Thondred 07-11-04, 06:30 AM	Originally posted by makoma Hey kids, prepare you to see your campaign world slowly being less and less supported, Wotc needs money, and needs to sell new books. 4th ed won't come soon so... Fewer and fewer books will be released, and you will be slowly forced to buy Eberron, as it has been made for Greyhawk years ago with FR. Eberron will include new race, as Pokemon fighter or Super Mario rogue , new monster as Giant ninja turtle and all the five years-15 years old (majority of the people who play in FR ) will spend their money in it. Super Mario Rogue? What? :confused: Where is that in Eberron? If it's not for you, it's all good. But that was either a funny joke, or just ignorant. Further, I am a huge fan of Greyhawk. I was never forced into buying FR just because WotC didn't publish new GH books. That's just absurd. I don't like FR, it's not for me. I am glad that other people enjoy it. More power to FR fans. If you want to give up on the setting you love, and go buy something else, that's your own call, not WotC's. No one forces you to buy anything. Just because they stop making supplements for your favorite setting, doesn't mean you have to let it die. I'll use your own example of Greyhawk, which is far from dead despite not having new material lately(aside from Dungeon/Dragon articles or Canonfire and other fan sites). I wouldn't worry. I doubt WotC will stop making FR material. Who knows, maybe we'll see some new Greyhawk material in the future. It would be a shame if you don't give Eberron a fair chance. There is a lot of great stuff in the ECSB.