| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Theogarsus09-21-06, 10:30 AM | It is rumored that the Forgotten Realms will be put to an end with the publication of D&D 4th edition and that WotC have the intention to release an all-new fresh “standard” campaign setting. Ok, it is just a rumor but what would you do? Does this dinosaur deserve to be put to rest? |
| -Rhune-09-21-06, 10:43 AM | I shudder to think |
| Timespike09-21-06, 10:44 AM | I don't think 4e is coming any time soon. WotC seems to have TONS of stuff that they want to release for 3.5. They're doing a compendium of magic items, second volumes of the complete series (complete mage, complete scoundrel, etc.) adding new books to the monster series (fiendish codex) and haven't gotten anywhere near to being finished with all the stuff they can release for Eberron. The more I look at the release schedule (and amazon), the more the 4e theories look like simple paranoia. I also don't particularly think the Realms are going anywhere too soon; as long as R.A. Salvatore can keep writing Drizzt books that sell to people who don't even know about roleplaying (and they do; I work for a bookstore. It's kinda funny to watch.) the setting is going to be at least somewhat secure. |
| Millennium09-21-06, 10:45 AM | Um... do you mean Greyhawk? Forgotten Realms hasn't ever been the "standard" game setting. Truth be told, I'd be saddened but not surprised to see Greyhawk go. Depending on who you ask, they've all but done it already. |
| Treymordin09-21-06, 10:55 AM | I think that FR has things being released for it all of the time, supplmental books and novels so I do not think it is going anywhere fast. Greyhawk on the other hand is all but gone save for Dragon magazine. |
| Shroomy09-21-06, 11:15 AM | I doubt WoTC will ever really terminate the FR, since I believe that the rights would then revert back to Ed Greenwood. The FR is too valuable as a intellectual property to give up. |
| razorboy09-21-06, 11:17 AM | Forgotten Realms is a major cash cow in every respect (save miniatures - but I'm sure an FR-specific set would not be impossible). It'll never be gone. I was sad to see Greyhawk virtually disappear as a supported product, but Eberron worked out great and I for one would be happy to see it as a standard D&D setting in the future editions. That said, 4th ed will be coming, but definitely not for years. |
| Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer09-21-06, 11:24 AM | I can enjoy the forgotten realms, but I would be happy to see it go. I would be happy to see Ebberon go too, as well as Greyhawk. I would like to see a fresh new world to be honest :D Of course, I'd also like there to be synergy between the worlds like we had in Spelljammer, but that may be a lost hope. |
| PhaedrusXY09-21-06, 12:11 PM | And this rumor came from where? Right out of your ass? |
| Elrond_Hubbard09-21-06, 01:01 PM | Wow -- combined two of the boards' most often regurgitated rumors (4e, and demise of FR) into one ... saves time and space. Well done. |
| yergerjo09-21-06, 05:17 PM | I also don't particularly think the Realms are going anywhere too soon; as long as R.A. Salvatore can keep writing Drizzt books that sell to people who don't even know about roleplaying (and they do; I work for a bookstore. It's kinda funny to watch.) the setting is going to be at least somewhat secure. I used to manage a Bookstore, this is so true. |
| Buttmonkey09-21-06, 07:53 PM | Death to the Realms!! Long live Greyhawk!! |
| Kadasbrass09-21-06, 08:14 PM | Greyhawk has been dieing for awhile. Just doesn't have much that makes it stand out. Ask a regular person to name a few people or places from Greyawk, your'll get Morti, Otto, or Rary. And ask how they know them they'll tell ya "They got spells named after their them." People are more likely to tell you alot more about FR or Eberron. Its just the way it is. People spend money on Eberron and FR more so then Greyhawk (part of the problem may be due to limit on Greyhawk products, I'm not sure which came first). But money talks more so than any other mouth. As long as people spend money on FR it will remain. |
| TheCarrionCrawler09-21-06, 08:40 PM | Grayhawk is dying, and it was killed by a robot ninja riding a dinosaur. :weep: J/K :P |
| John0509-21-06, 08:49 PM | Grayhawk is dying, and it was killed by a robot ninja riding a dinosaur. :weep: J/K :P No! It was a warforged ninja-pirate riding a machine-gun-mounted T-Rex. Not just any dinosaur! Warforged are heavy you know. :P ... In all seriousness, Elminster and Drizzt killed Greyhawk. |
| Archangel_James09-21-06, 10:25 PM | Greyhawk never died; it just got standardized. As the other settings adopted Mind Flayers and the like, the special features of Greyhawk became fewer. As it stands now, if you ever fought a beholder or played a cleric of Pelor in a homebrew setting, you're playing in Greyhawk. I make up my own worlds from the groud up, but I think it's accurate to say that I run a Greyhawk game. I use Greyhawk deities and Greyhawk monsters and Greyhawk spells. I use v.3.5 intellectual property that doesn't fall under Forgotten Realms or Eberron: I use Greyhawk. |
| Lokathor09-22-06, 12:45 AM | It's the beholder an FR beastie same as the mindflayer is? |
| jokei09-22-06, 12:51 AM | I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3.5 version of Greyhawk at some point in the future - think of the sales. 4th ed. a long way off I think, we'll see PHB and DMG III first. :coolcthul |
| The Simbul09-22-06, 01:51 AM | After all the tedious triviality of "3.5", along with WoTC's policy of endlessly regurgitating "revised" versions of the exact same :censored: material 10x over, combined with the fact that they still charge full price for that "revised" material, then I think it would be fair to assume the likeliness of a fan revolt would reach its zenith in the eve of an untimely release of 4th edition. Combine that with dumping FR, and you will only drop a few hundred tankers of petrol onto the inferno. |
| Sapp09-22-06, 01:53 AM | Two nigh-baseless or early rumors in one. At least this saves forum space from clutter. (This topic could have been split into two separate threads.) |
| Weiser_Cain09-22-06, 02:04 AM | I'd love to do something with greyhawk but if I did it wouldn't be greyhawk and it wouldn't be the standard that's the problem with being standard. |
| Odin Olarin09-22-06, 04:10 AM | Why would Wizards ever consider getting rid of Forgotten Realms, it would make no sense. I and my group have lived and breathed FR for years now, almost my whole gaming experience. Grant it I like Dragonlance and Ebberon, but the Realms is my home. I have played and based campaigns concerning large portions of the world and there is still so much left to play. To drop the realms means Wizards would lose a large portion of their customers. Plus with all the novels and source books coming out explaining old mysteries never completely revealed in 2e and then in turn bringing out more mysteries to base campaigns around, it's not like they are going to kill the time line because of lack of new events. And as for 4th edition, if it comes out in the next 7 or 8 years, i'm going to be p***ed. I and my group have spent mass amounts of money on this and we are not through with the system yet, and probalby won't be for a long long time. So unless wizards is trying to lose fans and costomers, which I highly doubt, they'll never even think about giving truth to these rumors. |
| Elvenknight_Cologne09-22-06, 04:30 AM | I Hope, that the FR will never die. But when Wizards in the next year published so boring, uninteressting products like this year, and don nott release products with a great potencial, then ist the FR dead now. |
| Telagaunt09-22-06, 12:55 PM | With Eberron, WotC has an offspring, and while Greyhawk is basically dead (except for Dragon), FR is still almost like a 'parent' lol. It's still a huge cash cow, and even IF they stopped making supplements for gaming, I doubt they'd stop novel production. Settings been on since 1987 (technically '85 as far as published material, who knows how long it was sitting in Ed Greenwoods head :P ). Plus you figure with the popularity of MMORPGs the last few years, and WotC dishing out Stormreach to help Eberron grow, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of a FR MMORPG, or, if anything, maybe they'll get Atari to take BG3 off the shelf lol. While everyone on these forums has a disagreement about a character or aspect of the game/novels, we all still for the most part love the Realms, why else would we be on these forums. And as long as we keep dishing out the money, WotC will keep giving us new things lol (well, hopefully 'new', as Simbul pointed out about revised material :P ) |
| msatran09-22-06, 04:55 PM | Well, the thing is, that they will likely drop the world when Mr. Greenwood dies. That sounds kind of sick and twisted to say, but when they can keep the property from reverting to it's original owners, it will be dropped like a hot potato. As much as all of US love the realms, Wizards does not. It's not that we aren't important. It's that they are more generic than we want to be. |
| Renvale99909-22-06, 05:29 PM | FR I think is the staple point of WOTC. To lose it would be like Disney losing The Magic Kingdom...not gonna happen. There is still a ton of stuff that I hope and pray comes out for FR and it's pretty much the standard D&D setting. Eberron has too many changes to it to become the THE campaign setting(dragons being any alignment, elves being weird and creepy lol). Don't get wrong, I love Eberron and I'm running a campaign in it right now, but I don't think it has the fan-base that FR does and probably never will. FR is something that I don't will ever REALLY go away...they might only release one or two books a year eventually, but I don't think it will ever truly be dead. And to John5, Drizzt didn't kill Greyhawk...Elminster maybe, but not Drizzt(sorry had to defend him). |
| GothicDan09-22-06, 06:36 PM | No, it was very likely Drizzt over Elminster. |
| The Ubbergeek09-22-06, 08:34 PM | Greyhawk in a way killed itself. A good - and bad - point of this setting is that it's not too much developped. Much things are left to the DM to fleshen, from countries to clergies. So, when Forgotten Realms came, and especially the novels came, many prefered to switch to it - it was more 'lively', much more elabored amd detailed. Make that what you want. There is also the conspirationist theory that TSR slowly let Greyhawk die so Gygax would get lesser and lesser royalties. :rolleyes: Kind of paranoiac, and very grognardesque. |
| Lord Karsus09-22-06, 09:34 PM | -As I said in another thread, the Realms will die when the Cubs win the World Series... |
| The Ubbergeek09-22-06, 09:59 PM | And also... A certain portion of the Greyhawk fanhood helped itself to die (or become morribound).... I hope this will never happen to FR. |
| Bladesong09-22-06, 10:17 PM | Pure hilarity. Never once have I heard about this "rumor". Stop making stuff up. |
| elemental evil09-23-06, 02:38 PM | If Greyhawk is dead, then why all all the adventure paths in Dungeon set in Greyhawk! And don't try to tell me they're generic because they are quite specific. Greyhawk's never had it so good. Next year we'll see Castle Greyhawk and the floodgates will reopen. The Realms suck. Suck balls. No reason to keep them around. |
| Bladesong09-23-06, 03:26 PM | Eh... you are aware that you're in a FR forum right? Anyway, pure opinion, nothing more. |
| GothicDan09-23-06, 03:32 PM | Elemental, you're trying to be humorous, right? Die hard Greyhawk fans would call you a blasphemer for referring to the core products as true Greyhawk. -I'd- be terribly offended if someone did that with FR and tried to call it FR. |
| The Ubbergeek09-23-06, 04:22 PM | It's apparent how 'true Greyhawk fans' had an hand in wounding it much... How the nine hells can you please them, really? I pray to the god(s) that the Ed sycophants will not turn like the Gygax sycophants.... |
| Falen09-23-06, 06:41 PM | FR will end sometime, but that does not mean you have to stop using it. Personally, I don't like FR right now (I started playing it when it's first boxed set came out, up until about a year before Eberron came out). Faerun is oversaturated with rehashed material, yet they hardly touch on the rest of the world. I still read the novels, but unless they release brand new material on Kara-Tur, Maztica, Evermeet, Zakhara, or a new place, their stuff is worthless to me. I'm sick of reading Greenwood's stuff now (novels and web articles) because he describes every little worthless thing. Greyhawk on the other hand has been around much longer yet seems that there is so much more that can be done with it (although I have never played it since FR came out, so I could be wrong). Everything that is D&D core now is GH. Look at manes of monsters, spells, towns, details in adventures, they are all GH, yet it looks brand new to me. I see for the future that there will be companies that still support 3.5 well after 4.0 comes out, and if FR is discontinued with the creation of 4.0, then I am sure Greenwood will publish more material for it using some company using d20 rules, although he will probably releases books that describe roads, fences, houses, and such. People are still playing Dark Sun, Planescape, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, etc. without support from WotC. the same will happen when FR and Eberron are discontinued. There's my two cents. Think what you will. |
| Lord Karsus09-23-06, 07:06 PM | I'm sick of reading Greenwood's stuff now (novels and web articles) because he describes every little worthless thing. -But, this is the reason why the Realms are so popular... |
| Bladesong09-23-06, 08:20 PM | Yes, I like the fact that there's usually lore on anything I want to know about. Even the little things. |
| Dark Wizard09-23-06, 10:18 PM | It would be good for there to be an official policy to forever leave one (but just one ;) ) of the continents undetailed and available for DMs to put in their own stuff. I also want to see the other continents updated, but part of the reason why is because of Ed Greenwood's way of detailing things for the core Realms. I want to see that richness applied to Kara-Tur, Zakhara, etc. |
| GothicDan09-23-06, 11:51 PM | I'm sick of reading Greenwood's stuff now (novels and web articles) because he describes every little worthless thing. That is one of FR's "hallmarks," actually, which is what gave it such a strong fanbase over the decades. A lot of us like it very much. :) You don't have to, of course! |
| Beckett09-24-06, 10:23 AM | As long as craperron doesn't take it's place, I would like no more F.R. |
| Bladesong09-24-06, 02:11 PM | If not FR or Eberron, what would you like to become dominant? |
| supernerd22209-24-06, 08:02 PM | Greyhawk, of course. Oh, wait, Greyhawk already is dominant, as it is the default campaign setting. Don't beleive me? Open up your manual of the planes and tell me if that looks like the Forgotten realms tree or the Ebberon planets. Open up your player's handbook and tell me if those are the gods of Faerun or Khovaire. |
| Dielzen09-25-06, 12:19 AM | Greyhawk won't die, it's the red-headed stepchild of the RPGA since they switched to 3e and cut Living Cities (set in Raven's Bluff of the FR) from their roster. It's now Living Greyhawk, and most people I know in RPGA hate the world but they don't have a choice if they want to do games. Me, personally, I quit RPGA once they dropped it from FR. |
| Anung_Un_Rama09-25-06, 09:59 AM | I can personally see why WotC would drop FR, even though it saddens me to think about it. I'm in no way a typical FR junkie- I'll read the odd novel here and there, I have the campaign setting, and I will play in a FR game when there is one to play in. It's a nice world and I rather like it. But I would never buy a supplemental book, because in the end, it seems to me that the world is so stuffed with the same material that there really isn't any wiggle room for more ideas or characters. The last two games in FR I played each had a 25 minute argument about how a certain area wouldn't have this or that going on. Sure, there's always the "DM's always right" solution, but then the hardcore FR fans feel cheated. That's why I liked Greyhawk- it's vague enough for pretty much anything to happen, and as long as you have the basic ideas and powergroups in the backround, everyone's happy. In general, I'd personally be happy if they dropped all the settings and let third party companies take over. That'll never happen with the market for (generally poor) shared world novels, but a guy can dream. |
| Beckett09-25-06, 12:26 PM | Why does there have to be a campaign world setting at all? I rather enjoy Dragonlance and Ravenloft personally, because they are so reality based and downright difficult campaign worlds, and they still believe in being able to just make up a monster to through at the players, forget the rules. My friends when they run a game allow anything from any D&D book, and do a great deal of mixing and matching for what they want, and through out the majority that they hate. I don't mind playing in Greyhawk, though I don't know much of the world history outside of Dragon mag., but it is not so much that I like Greyhawk as I hate Forgotten Realms and Eberron. I think Eberron was probably the absolute worst idea for a world that they could have chosen. I mean come on, living machines and flying trains. There is a reason the Final Fantasy series began to wane heavily in America after FF7. |
| Aaron L09-25-06, 12:45 PM | I would like both Forgotten Realms to continue, and more Greyhawk material to be produced. As for the rumor, this is the first time Ive ever heard it, and it makes as little sense as most baseless rumors I hear. |
| Beckett09-25-06, 12:57 PM | I would have said that it was not likely as well, but in the last two weeks, I have seen a lot of people say that they don't see much from FR anymore. Good books, new ideas, things that are not just rehashed ideas. It is possible that the writters have just gotten to the point where there really is nothing else to do. |
| Beckett09-25-06, 12:58 PM | I would like to see more things that didn't favor wizards and rogues, and did not adhere to RPGA style "balance published, but that's me. |
| yergerjo09-25-06, 03:07 PM | In reality all Sword and Sorcery Worlds are the same, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, etc. Truely, they should publish a generic setting (named towns and people but no firm map or hard locations), so that any adventure or locale or persona could be dropped at any time or place at the DM's discretion. It was only under TSR, when they produced the different Settings that something different came into being: Ravenloft (Gothic Horror-Role-Play or die sooner and more horribly), Dark Sun (Dead World, no magic unless you want to die, everyone is a slave), Al-Quadim (attached to FR but Mid-East Persian feel, slightly different), Maztica (attached to FR too, but South American savagery and conquest), Speljammer (D&D in Space, new locale same game), Planescape (DM's playground, Anything Goes), Eberron (tries for steampunk but doesn't figure it out), FR + Greyhawk (classical Arthurian/Tolkien/Anglo-Saxon Sword and Sorcery <The names have been changed to protect the heroes>) |
| msatran09-26-06, 03:38 PM | Uh, Greyhawk is Sword and Sorcery Forgotten Realms is High Fantasy Romance Eberron is Pulp Fantasy If you're going to label things with genres, at least have the decency to get the genres right. |
| Dark Wizard09-26-06, 04:44 PM | There is a reason the Final Fantasy series began to wane heavily in America after FF7. I figured it was just because the games sucked in general, lost touch with the fans, and/or had too much flashy CGI and not enough story and classic turn based console gameplay. I would have said that it was not likely as well, but in the last two weeks, I have seen a lot of people say that they don't see much from FR anymore. Good books, new ideas, things that are not just rehashed ideas. It is possible that the writters have just gotten to the point where there really is nothing else to do. I think WotC is just being idiotic by experimenting with the new "Regional Adventures." The whole concept and the announcement of three more of those things seems to have put many people who want the return of regional sourcebooks into a semi-depressed mood in regards to FR. I would like to see more things that didn't favor wizards... Despite my love of arcane goodness, I agree, wizards have been overdone in FR. More focus towards the other types would be great (Thieves Guilds that actually matter, regional/cultural/religious differences between warrior-type fighting styles, paladin orders, mercenary bands, adventuring charters, etc.) and then maybe come back to wizards with a fresh mindset. |
| Lord Karsus09-26-06, 06:33 PM | Forgotten Realms is High Fantasy Romance -I don't know...I don't really see the 'romance' part very often. I figured it was just because the games sucked in general, lost touch with the fans, and/or had too much flashy CGI and not enough story and classic turn based console gameplay. -You've got that right! |
| supernerd22209-26-06, 08:58 PM | So am I the only guy here who thiks Ebberon is cool? Sure, it's something completely different than crawling around a musty dungeon in the high north while fighting off zombies and a white dragon. No, Ebberon is something unto itself. You may have heard the old saying that implies that the technology of an advanced civilization would be indescernable from magic. Ebberon inverts that idea to create a world where the magic of an advanced society is indescernable from technology. This Idea is neither bad, nor new. Look back to the original Shining Force, Though the world is one of high light fantasy, it is also interlaced with such technology as roblots, lasers, and guns. Look at Ultima 1, where finishing the game required you to obtain the use of a spaceship. Ebberon simply creates a world where technology has moved at a faster rate than it normally would aided by magic. I think this would be the case if our world had magic. The dream of a robot is one that has existed since Da Vinci's time, and even before. The citezens of Khovaire need not trifle over such things as, you know, microcircuitry and artificial intelligence, because they can just put an elemental in a suit of armour and get one. People hate Ebberon because it isn't the average D&D world, but if they would learn to see the manymerits of this cinematic land, they would see Ebberon as what it is: The Forgotten Realms' equal. Furthermore, Final Fantasy Seven is one of the most loved games of all time, the most famous Final Fantasy game, and quite possibly the best. Have you seen the new movie? That was the coolest movie. Ever. I agree with msatran when he labels FR as romantic. Not romantic like the denotation of the word, dating, but like a sanitized, idealized, stereotypicalized, high fantasy world. The Dwarves live underground and make axes, The pirates sail through southern waters, don't go into those dark woods, many strange things live within, the wizards live in a tower and wear pointy hats, and there's a god for everything. It isn't like medieval society, but it is how people like to imagine it, therefore romantic. Wizards will never, ever, ever get rid of the realms. They are as much a part of D&D as a 20 sided die. Pretty much anybody who has any knowledge of classic CRPGs knows about the old gold box D&D games, most of which were realms oriented. Pretty much anyone who knows anything about fantasy books will have noticed the whole bookshelf at Chapters dedicated to Forgotten Realms novels. If any of their friends had been "Hey, Ted, Wanna play D&D with me and Bill and Joe and Ralph this saturday? We're doing a Greyhawk campaign." Ted would have had no idea what was going on unless he had experience with D&D. If it had been the Forgotten Realms, Ted would ahve been like, Oh, like with Drizzt and the moonsea games and Icewind Dale and Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter Nights and R.A. Salvatore? I'm in! Greyhawk is Default, Realms is too popular to get rid of, and Ebberon is cool. Wow. long post. And no smilies, either. ok, here's one :) |
| ORC_Paradox09-27-06, 02:37 AM | The Realms will be around for a long time to come. |
| Renvale99909-27-06, 08:24 AM | The Realms will be around for a long time to come. I hope so, although I fully realize that WOTC is a business...regardless, they have to make money. Even if Forgotten Realms has a fan base(people who play it, but don't buy every book that comes out)..if it's not making money, it will go away, period. It's a sad reality. The same goes for a TV shows...I remember E-ring, on NBC I think...really popular around where I live(being former military I loved it), but not so much other places...it may have an extrememely loyal fan base...but no ratings=no money=cancelled. Just my two cents. |
| Francius09-27-06, 01:16 PM | The Realms will be around for a long time to come. As long as there's D&D there will also be the Forgotten Realms...so that claims that both games will be around forever. Even if Forgotten Realms has a fan base(people who play it, but don't buy every book that comes out)..if it's not making money, it will go away, period. The FRealms are one of the most commercial franchises the rp gaming industry has ever known and it's still going at full steam so relax.The Realms will never go away.They are so detailed,vast,rich,grand and they posess such an enormous fanbase it's impossible (if not ridiculous) to make that ipothesis. |
| Beckett09-28-06, 08:45 AM | Not really. Many complaints are that for the last year or so, the only things comming out are pretty useless, since Lost Empires. They give a lot of detail about an area, but almost nothing else. P.S. Forgotten Realms sucks. |
| The Ubbergeek09-28-06, 11:01 AM | PS: Your favoritre setting suck. :P Really, it's a childish retort. :rolleyes: |
| Alediran09-28-06, 01:46 PM | Not really. Many complaints are that for the last year or so, the only things comming out are pretty useless, since Lost Empires. They give a lot of detail about an area, but almost nothing else. P.S. Forgotten Realms sucks. P.S: WoD trolls are boring and unidimensional. If you are using the name of one of the most prominent figures of Vampire what are you doing in a D&D forum? |
| Fanatic6609-28-06, 07:25 PM | I think Eberron was probably the absolute worst idea for a world that they could have chosen. I mean come on, living machines and flying trains. There is a reason the Final Fantasy series began to wane heavily in America after FF7. Please take your ignorance somewhere else. Lat time I looked, Eberron didn't have flying trains and the Warforged are more than "living machines." Personally I find Eberron to be refreshing. |
| BrianCritchley09-28-06, 07:54 PM | P.S: WoD trolls are boring and unidimensional. If you are using the name of one of the most prominent figures of Vampire what are you doing in a D&D forum? trolling, what else? |
| jokei09-28-06, 10:34 PM | ...I think ...well, it's been known on occasion. Ok, maybe I hope... but, I'd expect to see a Greyhawk resurrection to 3.5 at some point. I play FR and I love (most) of it, it's my ideal of a fantasy world, not too fluffy, well kinda spiky. I think it's too strong a product line for Wizards to consider dropping and so long as it stays that way... Seeing as Wizards seems to be growing and (so far as I know), the hobby (gaming in general) seems to be growing (sic) - I would expect Wizards to do a revision of Greyhawk (think of the sales "Oh the sales") at some point soon. Also, with the rerelease of "Castle Ravenloft", they seem to be aware that there is quite a demand for revisions of older favourites: which would seemingly imply "core" favourites are a priority. As well, think of the cost comparison of new campaign setting vs. revision of old campaign setting and there's a lot of gems out there that could be re-polished. I've not played at Eberron, but looking at the boards for it, it does seem immensely popular and damn those guys do "funny" very well, (check out the 1001's, I nearly pee'd and didn't understand half the references). I think FR could do with a bit of re-invigoration, "perhaps" some of the recent releases have been a bit stale and aimless, "maybe" it's a bit too bogged down by the weight of it's history (but you don't need to follow that ad nauseum). I think some of the recent books are a bit over-heavy on tying in to the history, but I change what I don't like. The realms is here to stay, unless of course it's squeezed out by a couple of other "settings" that come-out that divert the cash-flow away from it. I apologize for any incoherence, but it's late and I've been drinking. P.S. I proudly play D&D and I get girls - lol |
| Lord Karsus09-29-06, 01:32 AM | I apologize for any incoherence, but it's late and I've been drinking. -So, after you go out partying, and drinking, you log on to the WotC Boards? Aren't there better things to do? ;) P.S. I proudly play D&D and I get girls - lol -Suuuure...:P :cool: |
| ORC_Paradox09-29-06, 01:54 AM | Trolling is against the CoC. You guys know that. Let's not give the mod a reason to issue warnings to people. |
| Beckett09-29-06, 08:43 AM | P.S: WoD trolls are boring and unidimensional. If you are using the name of one of the most prominent figures of Vampire what are you doing in a D&D forum? That is my name. I play D&D. Honestly, the reason that D&D player do not like WWers is that WoD is NOT based on absolute rules like WotC games. It is actually about roleplaying, and literally impossible for a ruleslawyer to ruin. Or, and this actually happens often, I'll admit, dumb-**** newbies think evilkool vampire baddass is so neet, and give a terrible show to other gamers. But, the same thing happens in D&D mind you, like people who claim the they don't even need the PHB, all they require is the Book of VIle Darkness. I have met three of them personally. |
| Alediran09-29-06, 09:04 AM | That is my name. I play D&D. Honestly, the reason that D&D player do not like WWers is that WoD is NOT based on absolute rules like WotC games. It is actually about roleplaying, and literally impossible for a ruleslawyer to ruin. Or, and this actually happens often, I'll admit, dumb-**** newbies think evilkool vampire baddass is so neet, and give a terrible show to other gamers. But, the same thing happens in D&D mind you, like people who claim the they don't even need the PHB, all they require is the Book of VIle Darkness. I have met three of them personally. I have more than 3 years experience in both settings, and if there is a system that has absolute rules is WoD, D&D is the easiest system to tinker with, thanks to the greate amount of already written options (I strongly recommend Unearthed Arcana, it's the best source for alternative rules for 3.X, and don't forgett that you even have different rules for different world, like the arcane corruption in Warcraft). One example of this is D&D's Alignment vs WoD's Nature/Behavior. Beeing Chaotic Good in D&D only means that you respect individuality and work towards the good being of sentient creatures (and your way to do this is your choise, it could be by sword, spell, prayer, trickery or anything else), while in WoD beeing a Protector/Bully means that your character is someone who slaps anybody who hurts the things you protect, but nothing else, and that is terribly limitating, all WoD DM and Players I've met go completely nuts, when your character does something outside those two factors that define personality (as if a thinking beeing wouldn't do something outside of his norm once in a while) |
| Beckett09-29-06, 09:07 AM | Nature/Demeanor is a very simplified, very basic description of your character. Nothing more. Lawful Good is what makes Blackguards kill you twice as fast. I think you need to rethink that logic. |
| Beckett09-29-06, 09:08 AM | But, the New WOD crap, yes that is about rules. I hate it. |
| Alediran09-29-06, 09:16 AM | Nature/Demeanor is a very simplified, very basic description of your character. Nothing more. I know and that is why I love to make DMs and players nuts because of their fixation with this. Lawful Good is what makes Blackguards kill you twice as fast. I think you need to rethink that logic. Just beeing Lawfull Good doesn't means that a Blackguard will kill you on sight, he needs a motive to do it or it will be metagaming. |
| Lord Karsus09-29-06, 11:18 AM | Just beeing Lawfull Good doesn't means that a Blackguard will kill you on sight, he needs a motive to do it or it will be metagaming. -Exactly. Lawful Good / Lawful Evil is not Lawful stupid. |
| Beckett09-29-06, 07:37 PM | You just agreed that it is extremely broad, but then your arguement states that it is to limiting. Lawful Good, or any alignment is limiting, because it says that everyone in the world thinks in absolutes. Additionally, it is also so undefined that it is almost a useless description, that's meaning actually does change to what you want it to in a situation. The concept of nature and Demeanor is actually complex. Nature is your true self, the way you truely view the world, a way you are likely to react toward others, etc. . . Demeanor is the front that yon naturally present towards other, to hide your emotions and feeling. In your case of Portecter (Nature), and Bully (Demeanor), there are many ways to translate that. In WoD, that would then be followed with a thing called Concept, then Story/History, to fully flush out your character. WoD character sheets actually have an entire page for that. D&D doesn't so much as have a single line on most, unless you count alignment. |
| The Ubbergeek09-29-06, 08:07 PM | Alignements is but a part of it. The rest is backgrounds. WoD overdo it... You do not make an artistic work - it is an escapist hobby! No need for ubercomplex, Kafkaesque explanations for each and all of your pc's actions! |
| Auburn09-29-06, 10:50 PM | If not FR or Eberron, what would you like to become dominant? In order: 1. Dark Sun 2. Spelljammer 3. Ravenloft 4. Planescape |
| GothicDan09-29-06, 11:06 PM | I've played in WoD for almost as long as I have AD&D/D&D (around ten years), and I can say that you can indeed make game-breaking characters quite easily. I did it, in fact, in a game about 5 years ago. |
| yergerjo09-30-06, 06:41 AM | In order: 1. Dark Sun 2. Spelljammer 3. Ravenloft 4. Planescape 1. Planescape - for the versitility and infinite options 2. Ravenloft - the most role-play intensive (automatically) CS, and with some of the most intriging possible adventure ideas and locales since there is every type of setting and locale; wizards are downplayed, seriously Bards are the best character class to play here, you have knowledge of what you face and have a better idea of knowing how to defeat it, also you have some knowledge of what you face and realize it's better to run away, ;-) 3. Dark Sun - another unique world that requires a different vein of thought to play; wizards definitely suck 4. Spelljammer - D&D in space, says it all |
| Beckett10-01-06, 09:37 AM | There are not any rules to do it with and argue-out a D.M. |
| Beckett10-01-06, 09:38 AM | And I can verey mush assure you that no matter what, ever, there are a thousand things worse that anything you can ever do. That is why it does not work. |
| GothicDan10-01-06, 10:57 AM | You are obviously a deity of mechanics, omniscient and omnipotent. All should bow to your absolute superior wisdom. |
| MoogleEmpMog10-01-06, 02:45 PM | There is a reason the Final Fantasy series began to wane heavily in America after FF7. If by 'wane heavily in America' you mean 'sell more in America with each individual release than all the SNES and NES Final Fantasies combined,' then yes, you're correct. However, the proper term is 'wax,' not 'wane.' True, FF8-10 did not sell as well as FF7... but every one of them sold vastly more than FF1, 4 and 6 (the games released in the States when new). To be fair, the difference isn't that great in Japan, but you specifically singled out the US market. FFX was the second-highest selling Final Fantasy "despite" being the most recent, followed by FF8, which was the most high-tech. Unless, of course, by 'wane' you meant 'seem less like what I want, which is obviously indicative of quality.' As for the 'death' of the Forgotten Realms, it's quite possible that the Realms would someday 'die' as an RPG line, as Dragonlance did for a while, but overall? Highly unlikely as long as anything like the current society exists; FR books and electronic games have brought in far more revenue than pen and paper RPG products for all settings could ever dream of. |
| 3catcircus10-01-06, 07:27 PM | If FR went away and Greyhawk wasn't the default world, I'd simply switch to Harnworld or Gryphonworld, or the Scarred Lands. Or better yet, just stick with the existing Greyhawk or FR products I already own. I've got the Greyhawk boxed set, the original FR gray box rules, I really don't need anything more than that... |
| Arctigear10-01-06, 07:49 PM | -As I said in another thread, the Realms will die when the Cubs win the World Series... Mark your calendars! Forgotten Realms gets dropped next year :P But seriously, the Death of FR in 4.0? Pha! A new supported campaign setting, possibly, but they would get rid of the whole d20 system before that setting. |
| BrianCritchley10-01-06, 10:10 PM | In order: 1. Dark Sun 2. Spelljammer 3. Ravenloft 4. Planescape now please understand, I'm not bashing these campaign settings, but those campaign settings are terriable for the default setting. the default campaign setting should basicly feature the useal standard stuff without a whole lot of differance/special case rules. Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms do indeed provide this. those campaign settings you lsited tend to be somewhat differnt from the Norm. making them a core setting would result simply in their being extremely watered down. I mean if you thought Greyhawk is being watered down, thats nothing compared to what those settings would suffer. |
| Beckett10-02-06, 08:40 AM | No I was useing the word wane in reference to the fact that comparred to what they intended to sell in American, for all the FF games comparred to what they actually did, it was a disapointment. The figures did come up about right as the games first came out, which showed that a lot of die hard FFers got the game on the release dates, or shortly there after, but after that, the interest in the game declined much faster and more than anticipated. This is actually sort of the opposite of the other FF games, which sold much much more than originally planned for. |
| Beckett10-02-06, 08:43 AM | I see no reason why Greyhawk should not stay the norm. All in all it has the best set of core deities, it has enough mystery to it that anything you want to do you can find a place and reason that is not a stretch of the imagination, and it is designed to be a "generic" place. F.R. is way to personalized for my tastes, and I agree, nearly any other setting, except maybe Planescape, would require too much "thinning" to be recognizable. |
| Dexter_Blacktyde10-02-06, 08:52 AM | 1. Dark Sun 2. Spelljammer 3. Ravenloft 4. Planescape Apart from the rules that would have to be changed beyond recognition, the listed settings (as interesting as they may be) are nowhere near generic enough from the get-go to pass for a default setting. None of them reflects the "classic fantasy" flavor a customer new to the hobby expects. DB |
| MerrikCale10-02-06, 04:39 PM | it has the best set of core deities, I have to disagree with you here. I prefer FR's deities. |
| Lord Karsus10-02-06, 10:54 PM | Mark your calendars! Forgotten Realms gets dropped next year :P -Cubs winning the World Series, eh? That's a very long, loooooonnnnnnggggg shot... :cool: |
| MoogleEmpMog10-02-06, 11:31 PM | No I was useing the word wane in reference to the fact that comparred to what they intended to sell in American, for all the FF games comparred to what they actually did, it was a disapointment. The figures did come up about right as the games first came out, which showed that a lot of die hard FFers got the game on the release dates, or shortly there after, but after that, the interest in the game declined much faster and more than anticipated. This is actually sort of the opposite of the other FF games, which sold much much more than originally planned for. Where did you get the expected vs. actual sales figures for the Final Fantasies going back as far as, I assume, FF1 or at least FF4 (because FF6 and FF7 alone don't make for much of a sample size)? Reliable sales projections for the series would be quite useful for me! Link please? Of course, it doesn't really make much of a point, since both FF6 and FF7 were higher-tech and farther from traditional fantasy than FF9 and arguably than FFX, and FF7 was arguably farther afield than FF8. Far more likely that, following the runaway success of FF7, which pretty much broke open console RPGs as a genre in the US somewhat equivalent to their Japanese sales, Square (and later SquareEnix) adjusted their expectations upwards and overshot somewhat. |
| Lord Karsus10-02-06, 11:52 PM | -Though Final Fantasy is all fine and dandy, that's not the topic here...Why not just start a new thread in the Off-Topic Forum? :) |
| BrianCritchley10-03-06, 01:44 AM | Where did you get the expected vs. actual sales figures for the Final Fantasies going back as far as, I assume, FF1 or at least FF4 (because FF6 and FF7 alone don't make for much of a sample size)? Reliable sales projections for the series would be quite useful for me! Link please? Of course, it doesn't really make much of a point, since both FF6 and FF7 were higher-tech and farther from traditional fantasy than FF9 and arguably than FFX, and FF7 was arguably farther afield than FF8. Far more likely that, following the runaway success of FF7, which pretty much broke open console RPGs as a genre in the US somewhat equivalent to their Japanese sales, Square (and later SquareEnix) adjusted their expectations upwards and overshot somewhat. aye, that square expected far more outta it's games then what they actually got doesn't say anything |
| Timespike10-03-06, 09:51 AM | P.S. I proudly play D&D and I get girls - lol I can do one better. I'm married. :D |
| Beckett10-03-06, 11:19 AM | Look, I read it way back in the day. Any mag will tell you the exact same thing, it's no secret. The only reason I even brought it up was in comparison to Eberron not doing all that great because, exactly like the later FF games, it tries way to hard to blend sci-fi and a little fantasy. I for one hate it, and it is not being recieved well over all by fans, though it does have a fan base. |
| Timespike10-03-06, 12:47 PM | I'm always amused by the idea of "genre purity". I run a homebrew setting with far more "stuff" than most Final Fantasy games; I have Standard magic, Psionics, Pact magic, Incarnum use, Truenaming, Shadow magic, Martial Adepts, Steampunk technology (From Iron kingdoms, Dragonmech, Sorcery & Steam, and Warcraft sources) warlocks, and so on and it runs pretty smoothly and everybody has fun. You lose nothing by adding some of the more exotic elements. It's still the same fun game you've been playing all along, just with more options. |
| Dexter_Blacktyde10-03-06, 12:57 PM | But that's just you - to me it looks like an overcrowded "anything goes" setting without a focus, something I'd shy away from playing. (That's the way I feel about Eberron, too.) Tastes are diverse, so the default setting should be the lowest common denominator of what most people expect from a fantasy RPG - with as few aspects that could put them off as possible. The advantage is that it's a good blend of an official and a homebrew setting, as personalized as an official setting can get. That's just not as easily achieved with highly detailed settings like the FR or settings that are not generic enough like Eberron. DB |
| WizO_Shadow10-03-06, 10:45 PM | O/T. Trolling... I just don't want to count the reasosn why. Shadow |