Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wingsandsword 08-01-03, 05:08 AM	I know that people with Wizards cannot officially discuss things that aren't on the schedule, but does anybody know if they have any plans or have given any consideration to produce versions of the three abandoned "sub-settings?" Have they pretty much said they are totally abandoned, or are they just so far back on the priorities for publishing that we're more likely to see Volo's Guide to Elminster's Belly Button first? Kara-Tur: Oriental Adventures left this setting in the lurch, and books like Unapproachable East have given hints and glimpses of the Eastern Realms (the Shou Disciple class?) but having even one book akin to Silver Marches or Unapproachable East devoted to the Eastern Realms would be superb. Oh, did anybody else realize that in the old Kara Tur trail map they listed the Shou alphabet, being the roman characters written in a highly stylized form to look akin to chinese characters. However, in 3e Realms they say that Shou is written with Draconic. Does this mean that Draconic is pseudo-chinese characters? Maztica: Never the most popular of the side-settings, but it did flesh out much more of the world. Al Qadim: I know that all things Arab aren't very popular right now, and Al Qadim when it first came out was obviously using the fame of the Aladdin movie to jump start it. However, I know a lot of old 2e fans who really liked the setting, and it had plenty of variant casters that would be interesting to see in 3e. Would Sha'ir be a prestige class or a new core class for spellcasters, given how different their spellcasting is?
Masakado 08-01-03, 09:27 AM	Originally posted by wingsandsword Would Sha'ir be a prestige class or a new core class for spellcasters, given how different their spellcasting is? Sha'irs aren't terribly far removed from sorcerers as far as the fairly spontaneous casting goes. Only difference is that you have a ready made, improved familiar that fetches your spells for you. If it were me, I'd make it a PrC, to represent the notion that the art of bargaining with genies is an acquired art, & not something you learn overnight. I'd also have to create a whole slew of "genie" related spells. I'd also have to dispense with the Al-Qadim notions of what a "sorcerer" consists of. Sha'ir are more comparable to sorcerers, and Zakharan "sorcerers," as we all know, are formally-trained wizards that specialize in an element. The alternate settings could still see the light of day as specialized regional supplements like Unapproachable East, but it'll be a while before Kara-Tur, Maztica, or Zakhara are penned, if at all. The devs still have most of the Heartlands & Western Faerun to deal with.
Iakhovas 08-01-03, 02:00 PM	If an all-inclusive "Beyond Faerūn" sourcebook is developed, I hope they also touch on the "Dark Continent" south-east of Maztica and south-west of Zakhara.
Lashan 08-01-03, 02:43 PM	Personally, I would hate for them to write this. Why? Well, since I am absolutely uninterested in the products, I would hate to see them waste time on them. I wouldn't care if they produced many products per year. At this point, though, they haven't produced many FR products all since 3E. If only so many products are being published per year, they should stick to things that are really useful to everyone. I know that there are some hard core people who are fans for these areas, but I really hope they don't waste the corporate brain trust on this project.
Ivy 08-01-03, 04:17 PM	Much as I love those settings (especially Kara-Tur), I think Lashan's got a point about the number of products per year. I think that if those lands do see the light of day again, it would have to be all three in one book -- "Beyond Faerūn" (great title Iakhovas!). There's so much variation between the three settings I think it would make for a really cool book. Our other only hope of seeing stuff about them is if the designers put in little snippets into sourcebooks of Faerūnian lands -- someone had suggested an "Old Empires" supplement would be great if it also included info on the neighboring eastern lands of Semphar, Murghōm, the Plains of Purple Dust, Solon, etc. Or for example, a "Lands of Intrigue" book might have info about the Amnian colony in Maztica. Personally, I think that's a great idea too. Anyway, if we keep expressing our desire to see these lands in print, maybe someone will take note! :)
wingsandsword 08-01-03, 05:47 PM	Yeah, if we want to see it done, let's make sure that WotC knows there is fan interest. One book or three, doesn't matter as long as it's covered. If I had been able to be at Gen Con longer, I would have lobbied for this project in person. About Sha'ir. While they are vagely similar to 3e sorcerers, they in 2e had the theoretical ability to get any spell if they had seen it cast before. In a Planescape/Forgotten Realms game I was in I remember the Sha'ir just by pure dumb luck saw Wish cast in his first game. Every time we really got into a bind he tried to get Wish to get us out of the problem, once it actually worked. Also in 2e it took rounds or longer to get spells to cast, especially if they were higher level than they could normally cast if a normal wizard. For 3e I would make Sha'ir cast as sorcerers, use normal familiar rules for their Gen, but give them the ability to make a level check (or spellcraft check) to use a spell slot to cast a higher level spell that they normally couldn't cast (and lose the slot if they fail the check), and much worse penalties for failing if it was a divine spell. In exchange I would make them require Diplomacy checks to use most of their class features, since it represents dealing with Genies. Personally I would think they would go back to calling it "Arabian Adventures" like the 2e book was called, because I'd imagine that the "suits" would think that Al-Qadim is "too close" to Al-Qaida for middle america. For the Kara Tur section I had been wondering if Samurai needed to be reprinted as a core class, but I realized that with proper regional feats you could get the starting Katana & Wakizashi, a Prestige class at 5th level or so for Samurai to give the ancestral daisho ability and such, so with creative use of existing mechanics there would be no need for the samurai class. I'm not quite sure if Shaman (i.e. Shukenja) needs to be reprinted though, because it is distinct in it's abilities from Cleric.
jim9311 08-01-03, 06:27 PM	Lashan- I can understand that because they are not of interest to you that you would see them as a waste of time, but I think that if enough people can show interest in them. WOTC and you would have to admit that it is not a waste of time to produce a product that people want to buy. I would at least like to see them farm it out to some other publisher. I don't know how you would work it out contractually, but perhaps they could use WOTC talent and possibly some of the old TSR information, but use their own editing, writing and development talent to ease the economic impact and time restraints that it would create for WOTC.
athelstan 08-03-03, 11:35 AM	my suggestion for using the dark continent south of maztica is to simply put in the Nyambe setting. Perfectly detailed, and the realms needs an africa anyway. Its done all the work for you, and is available now!
Hez 08-03-03, 12:31 PM	I'd rather see them do more Faerun books first. Detailed books on the Dalelands, the Sword Coast, Cormyr, Halruaa, etc. How about a book on Lantan? The island of Clockwork Wonders is always interesting. As for a book on Kara-Tur, I could see it happening. They'd end up reprinting a lot of stuff from Oriental Adventures (minus the absurd Five-Rings-style "Clan" nonsense) which makes it easier for them. I don't see a Maztica book happening anytime soon. It's just not that interesting of a campaign setting. Al-Quadim? Forget it. That's marketing suicide. WotC would never release a book that, as has been pointed out, sounds suspeciously like "Al-Quaeda" to the unwashed masses. It's hard enough for D&D to mainstream market itself without being labelled as "Satan's Game". Next thing you know they'll call it "Jihad's Game". Whatever. At least the LotR movies are helping D&D's PR. Even if they changed the name to Arabian Adventures and never, ever used the words "Al-Quadim" anywhere in the book, it would still be a tough sell. Far, far easier from a marketing perspective to ship out more books on the Dales or Evermeet or something. Personally, I hope they never release books on the "Unknown Lands". Fear of these books being released is what prevents me from completely writing my own netbook on the areas. I mean, why would someone want to play my crappy homebrew continent when they have their shiney, official WotC version? Especially that huge, suspeciously-Australian looking continent on Toril. It's nearly the size of Faerun itself. There's a lot you could do there.
wingsandsword 08-03-03, 03:54 PM	I have always seen part of the appeal of the realms to be it's breadth as well as it's depth. Depth in that not only does every little town in faerun have a map of it somewhere (the Atlas CD-ROM is golden for this), but a history and facts, and even the relatively minor countries have a wealth of data on them. Breadth in that the entire world, or most of it, has something there. You can point to somewhere on the globe and go there. Personally, I'd rather them not do books for every single part of faerun first. The core book gave enough of a coverage of the basic parts of faerun for a game there, but the "beyond-faerun" area was about half-a-page with each of the other three continents recieveing about a paragraph each. Certain "core" areas that have been centerpieces of the FR setting, like the Dales or Waterdeep I could see as books soon, but Lantan, or Chult as one of those big hardcovers they are doing now? This wouldn't be as much of an issue if they hadn't decided to remove Kara Tur from OA, or not even to make it a web enhancement, instead making the Mahasarpa setting in a web enhancement. Did they give Kara Tur that little consideration? Right now the little snippets in Unapproachable East are all we have. If all these things were combined into one book, especially if they decide to fill in the few missing continents too. 202 Pages is how long Faiths and Pantheons was (assuming it to be the upper page limit of a non-core book). Let's see how many settings/continents we would have to detail 1. Kara Tur 2. Malatra (the huge expanse of jungles to the south of Kara Tur, I think the RPGA runs a campaign there.) 3. Maztica 4. Zakhara (if it's part of another book, there is no need for any "arabian" or "al-qadim" mention on the cover). 5. "Dark Continent" I always figured it would kinda be like aboriginal australia given where it was on the map, personally. 6. "North America", the Continent and isles to the north of Maztica. Given how the continents in FR are vague analogs of Earth, I would assume this would be similar to the various native cultures of north america. 7. "South America" since Maztica generally covered the central/south american style, the continent directly to the south of Maztica could be something else. As was suggested, an african style continent could fit here. This leaves us with 28 pages per continent. At a minimum, if we presume one new core class per continent (Sha'ir, Samurai, ect. ), that is 4 pages right there, 4 prestige classes, that's another 8 pages. An average of one new PC race, each taking up one page so 11 pages just to "crunchy" materials, so add an obligatory page or two of new feats per continent and a few pages of new domains and spells. That eats up most of the entire 28 page allottment with just "crunch" without actually describing the area. These were just averages, of course, some settings would have a whole lot more of one thing, like Kara Tur could have three new core classes (reprints from OA, Samurai, Sohei and Shukenja/Shaman), while some settings might not have any new ones, or how Zakhara had no new PC races ect. . . So therefore a book would just cover only 3 or for of those areas (like the Kara Tur/Maztica/Zakhara group and one new one). Or they could make two volumes of "Beyond Faerun".