Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bathtor 02-16-04, 09:27 AM	I´ve got an Question: Is it correct that there has never been anybody just sittin` down and inventing and writing down at least ONE of all the languages of the Forgotten Realms? If not, where can I find such stuff?
Cunning Linguist 02-16-04, 09:35 AM	You can find the Dethek, Espruar and Thorass alphabeth on page 86 in FRCS, but other then that I don't think they have anything.
Bathtor 02-16-04, 09:49 AM	I didn`t say alphabeths. I said languages. Languages like Elvish, Dwarfish, the commonlanguage, the ancient commonlanguage. Languages like the ones to find in my Signature (they are adeenaian) And none ever invented some of those? That`s impossible in a that well-known world.
faridjo 02-16-04, 09:57 AM	Try drow i think they are very detailed
Faraer 02-16-04, 09:59 AM	There's a reasonable amount of vocabulary for dwarvish (listed in FR11), drow (listed in FOR2), elvish (scattered all over the place), and Thorass (untranslated fragments in many place and character names). But no one involved with the Realms is a linguist, so no one has tried to make a real created language with a working grammar.
Bathtor 02-16-04, 10:05 AM	so, don`t you think we should change this? I`ve inveted more than 2 working languages (just a few vocabulary is missing, but that comes with time) yet. I think at least the commonlanguage, thorass, elvish and dwarvish should be working languages. And just for fun drow should be involved! Is anybody going to help me or will I have to do everything by myself?
3catcircus 02-16-04, 11:21 AM	Something to keep in mind. There have been several official and unofficial sources of canon on the languages of Faerun, Kara-Tur, etc. They include the FRCS, Tom Costa's Speaking in Tongues , and several postings on the Forgotten Realms mailing list. While "inventing" the actual languages may be a great endeavour for your own campaign, I'd also like to see a complete, concise list of real-world equivalents for languages in the Forgotten Realms (complete to the level of all of the languages listed in Speaking in Tongues rather than the simplified versions in FRCS.) Do some research on the way in which the Star Wars languages were invented and you'll see that they mated several real-world languages together to come up with something that not only is original, but *sounds* like it could be a real language.
Ssussunriyh 02-16-04, 12:28 PM	J.R.R. Tolkien was a professor of languages, so he had the educational background to invent Sindarin (elvish). However, that is the exception, rather than the rule. In many fantasy novels, writers simply substitute a transliterated form of ancient Greek, or Arabic, or some other language. Latin is a favorite for spellcasting incantations. And in Star Wars, Greedo (the alien Han Solo shot in the cantina) was allegedly speaking Japanese.
Wooly Rupert 02-16-04, 12:39 PM	Originally posted by Bathtor so, don`t you think we should change this? I`ve inveted more than 2 working languages (just a few vocabulary is missing, but that comes with time) yet. I think at least the commonlanguage, thorass, elvish and dwarvish should be working languages. And just for fun drow should be involved! Is anybody going to help me or will I have to do everything by myself? Foluss uriu xunor l' ilythiiri xanalress... (translation: Someone has done the drow language...) http://www.grey-company.org/Maerdyn/resources/translator/ I have fonts for Espruar, Thorass, and Dethek. And that's enough for me. I, personally, see no need to make up a language for a fictitious people in a fictitious setting.
Faraer 02-16-04, 12:40 PM	To create a Faerūnian language you'd have to assemble all relevant information in print (no mean feat), be a highly skilled linguist, and deeply understand the mindset of that people as imagined by Ed Greenwood and others so as to imbed it in the new tongue. And if you managed that, Wizards of the Coast would never adopt it as creative directors and writers alike wouldn't want the burden of consistency with a scheme devised by someone from outside. See also see one of Elaine Cunningham's posts here (http://www.candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1888).
Cli' San Aquanova 02-16-04, 10:32 PM	Originally posted by Ssussunriyh And in Star Wars, Greedo (the alien Han Solo shot in the cantina) was allegedly speaking Japanese. Are you serious? I've never heard Japanese like that... sounded more like Chinese to me... Back on-topic, I just want to learn a bit of the Aquan language... I've had to just use a modified Japanese for it... please WotC... just some Aquan sentences in ONE novel... http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/mermansad.TXT
Wooly Rupert 02-16-04, 11:42 PM	Yeah, I was thinking about that earlier. I've got j-pop and j-rock CDs, and Greedo doesn't sound like anything on any of them.
Ssussunriyh 02-16-04, 11:45 PM	Please note that I said "allegedly." As in, I heard a rumor or read something in a fan magazine a long time ago...
WizO_BigSister 02-17-04, 08:14 AM	I have seen very complex versions of the Drow language, which seem to be be based on a mixture of phrases and words found in "official" source material (magazines, novels, supplements, adventures) and those provided by fans. Here are a couple of links to sites with information, phrases and dictionaries. The Underdark - Language of the Drow (http://www.realms.force9.co.uk/UD/index.htm) The Drow Chambers - Language (http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Labyrinth/5637/Languagesearch.html)
Bathtor 02-17-04, 10:34 AM	Originally posted by Faraer And if you managed that, Wizards of the Coast would never adopt it as creative directors and writers alike wouldn't want the burden of consistency with a scheme devised by someone from outside. So you do not seem to be ineressted. I will do the other languages (except drow) only for my role-play-group. Thank you for you support! Laphmenthian huiol aneas melzuk! Bathtor Divenialos Devonithechal (You don`t have to unterstand this. Just take it as it is or use the meaning you prefer. But please do not translate Bathtor. Not even only for your self cause the name belongs to and my book and is not to use for others than me!) ps: Perhaps I will need you counsil again while working. Keep on being loyal to me.
ender 02-19-04, 04:43 AM	Sorry, Bathtor, I haven't the skill for inventing a language--though best of luck to you, it sounds like a wonderful project. For anyone interested, the Grey Company made a whole elvish lexicon. I don't think this is FR specific. You can find it here: http://www.grey-company.org/
The Gel Man 02-19-04, 08:25 AM	Speaking of languages, I’ve been looking for a comprehensive list of all the languages spoken in the realms. Where online could I go about finding a list of those.
Faraer 02-19-04, 09:58 AM	Just being practical, Bathtor. Greedo doesn't speak Japanese, though Nien Nunb does speak (in part) Hyah. Ben Burtt discusses all this in his fascinating Galactic Phrase Book & Travel Guide. The comprehensive list of Realms languages is "Speaking in Tongues", in Dragon Annual #4, mentioned above.
Wooly Rupert 02-19-04, 10:33 AM	IIRC, the 2nd edition boxed set had a pretty comprehensive list, too.
3catcircus 02-19-04, 01:24 PM	Originally posted by Wooly Rupert IIRC, the 2nd edition boxed set had a pretty comprehensive list, too. True - but not *quite* as comprehensive as Speaking in Tongues when it comes to the human languages of Toril. I think that (besides the complete screw-up up the cosmology) the dumbing-down of languages for 3rd edition FRCS was their biggest mistake - Tom Costa's article was the pinnacle of language information for Forgotten Realms. The only areas that could possibly have been improved upon would have been the Kara-Tur languages and the non-human languages (how many dialects of the Dwarf, Elf, Orc, etc. languages are there, for example?) That having been said - I think the most lacking thing *right now* is not the languages, but the lack of a 3rd edition Thorass font. Someone did a 3rd edition Espruar and Dethek hadn't changed. I'd also like to see fonts for Draconic, Celestial, and Infernal as well as the Shou Chiang (from Kara-Tur boxed set), and Tuigan, Ra-Khati and Semphari fonts (from The Horde boxed set). Basically, if an alphabet exists, I'd like to have a font for it. Unfortunately, I lack the talents to create my own fonts and have to rely on the generosity and talents of others in this regard.
Wooly Rupert 02-19-04, 04:51 PM	I've got a Thorass font that I found somewhere (along with Espruar and Dethek), but I don't know if it comforms to the new version of Thorass.
Squire 02-21-04, 08:09 AM	Elven is derived from Tolkien's Elvish, and drow probably from Elven. but what of the other languages, such as regional ones? I can understand languages being hard to create, but I'd have thought that there might be the odd word, such as greetings or battle cries. what do people generally do when they want someone to shout "charge!" in Illuskan, or greet someone in their local tongue?
CJ1720 02-21-04, 09:07 AM	I've always used the Star Wars method -- mixed and matched other languages. Since I only know a smattering of other languages this is the only option open to me. I live in Korea and have made good use of a combination of Korean and German when I've needed something especially orcish -- the gutteralness of it all, you see. It really helps if you can speak it fairly well, too, so that you can say the words or sentences as if they were spoken by a native speaker.
3catcircus 02-21-04, 09:20 AM	Originally posted by Squire Elven is derived from Tolkien's Elvish, and drow probably from Elven. but what of the other languages, such as regional ones? I can understand languages being hard to create, but I'd have thought that there might be the odd word, such as greetings or battle cries. what do people generally do when they want someone to shout "charge!" in Illuskan, or greet someone in their local tongue? What I've done is simply mapped almost all (haven't completed it yet) of the languages into real-world equivalents (note that if a player actually knows the language you've substituted, it will require suspension of disbelief.) For example - I use Danish to represent Illuskan (I use Speaking in Tongue so Illuskan only is spoken by Luskanites, Northmen on the Moonshaes, and by those on Ruathym - everyone else in THE NORTH speaks either Bothii, Reghedjic, or Northern...) The reason I use Danish for this language is that the culture seems similar to the Vikings. Likewise, I use Norwegian and Swedish for Northern and Bothii and I use Icelandic for Reghedjic. I use Spanish and French for Thorass and Thorasta, for example. The *only* reason I can do this is because of the great amount of resources available on the Internet - Babelfish and Google translators, FreeLang dictionaries, university linguistic websites, etc.