Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chloramantis 07-24-05, 12:56 PM	What ever happened to the devils Moloch and Geryon? What about Gargauth, wasn't he a devil lord? Is there anything written about his fall from Asmodeus' grace and him becoming a Faerunian demi-god? I know all three were cast out of Hell by Asmodeus, but where are they? Also are these the present Lords/Ladies of their respected level of Hell? Bel-Avernus Dispater-Dis Mammon-Minauros Fierana and Belial-Phlegethos Levistus-Stygia Malagard-Malbolge Baalzabul-Maladomini Mephistopheles-Cania Asmodeus-Nessus I know Geryon ruled Stygia for a short time and Moloch was Malagard's lover, but were are they now? Lastly, does anyone have a discription of Martinet, Asmodeus' right hand? Thanks in advance!
Demetrios 07-24-05, 01:18 PM	What ever happened to the devils Moloch and Geryon? What about Gargauth, wasn't he a devil lord? Is there anything written about his fall from Asmodeus' grace and him becoming a Faerunian demi-god? I know all three were cast out of Hell by Asmodeus, but where are they? Also are these the present Lords/Ladies of their respected level of Hell? Bel-Avernus Dispater-Dis Mammon-Minauros Fierana and Belial-Phlegethos Levistus-Stygia Malagard-Malbolge Baalzabul-Maladomini Mephistopheles-Cania Asmodeus-Nessus I know Geryon ruled Stygia for a short time and Moloch was Malagard's lover, but were are they now? Lastly, does anyone have a discription of Martinet, Asmodeus' right hand? Thanks in advance! There was a big conflict in the Hells recently called the Reckoning. Basically, Asmodeus allowed Mephistopheles' and Baalzabul's scheming to come to fruition, and the archdevils' and their allies' armies gathered to face each other. But Geryon betrayed both sides and threw in his lot with Asmodeus, who appeared just before the battle started and put a stop to it by subverting the pit fiend generals of both armies. Asmodeus allowed most of the archdevils to retain their offices, but Moloch, enraged, defied him and actually drew his weapon as if to strike Asmodeus. He was summarily deposed and exiled, replaced by the Hag Countess (who had egged her commander on in his folly). Asmodeus also deposed the turncoat Geryon, which pretty much surprised everyone, including Geryon himself. The rest were returned to their old offices, although some of them had their forms changed as punishment. The pit fiend generals who had betrayed their commanders were set up as the Dark Eight, a group to both oversee the conduct of the Blood War as well as a counterbalance to the Lords of the Nine.
QuenthelsChampion 07-24-05, 01:46 PM	There was a big conflict in the Hells recently called the Reckoning. Basically, Asmodeus allowed Mephistopheles' and Baalzabul's scheming to come to fruition, and the archdevils' and their allies' armies gathered to face each other. But Geryon betrayed both sides and threw in his lot with Asmodeus, who appeared just before the battle started and put a stop to it by subverting the pit fiend generals of both armies. Asmodeus allowed most of the archdevils to retain their offices, but Moloch, enraged, defied him and actually drew his weapon as if to strike Asmodeus. He was summarily deposed and exiled, replaced by the Hag Countess (who had egged her commander on in his folly). Asmodeus also deposed the turncoat Geryon, which pretty much surprised everyone, including Geryon himself. The rest were returned to their old offices, although some of them had their forms changed as punishment. The pit fiend generals who had betrayed their commanders were set up as the Dark Eight, a group to both oversee the conduct of the Blood War as well as a counterbalance to the Lords of the Nine. Wow i read about the reckoning, but i never thought about how the Dark Eight were really to counter-balance the Lords of the Nine. Do they have any names? Are they just pit fiends (my guess with full HP)? Also i dont think that was all of the answer that Chor was looking for. I think he wa slooking for more were are they now that the reckoning happened.
Chloramantis 07-24-05, 02:03 PM	Wow i read about the reckoning, but i never thought about how the Dark Eight were really to counter-balance the Lords of the Nine. Do they have any names? Are they just pit fiends (my guess with full HP)? Also i dont think that was all of the answer that Chor was looking for. I think he wa slooking for more were are they now that the reckoning happened. You're correct! I was looking for current info, after the reckoning, but that's cool.. THE DARK EIGHT The Dark Eight are the generals of the Blood War; these eight pit fiends hold council every sixty-six days. The Dark Eight hold immense power, but they still answer to the Lords of the Nine, who each control a layer of the Nine Hells, and ultimately they answer to Asmodeus. The pit fiends that make up the Dark Eight are called Baalzephon, Corin, Dagos, Furcas, Pearza, Zapan, Zaebos, and Zimmimar. These eight rule the devils beneath them, meeting in the fortress of Malsheem in Nessus, the ninth layer. In addition to planning the next Blood War offensive, they also have a hand in determining which devils get promoted. On the rare occasions when they are not leading their armies, they reside in Nessus. When away on some hellish errand, they often appear in malefic human guise.
Bifford 07-24-05, 02:39 PM	I think it was mentioned in a Book of Vile Darkness web enhancement that Geryon is somewhere in Hell, and he's trying to regain favor with Asmodeus in the hopes of being reinstated (the suspicion is that Asmodeus fired him because he'd be easier than ever to manipulate).
Sigurd van Norhusen 07-24-05, 03:09 PM	I think it was mentioned in a Book of Vile Darkness web enhancement that Geryon is somewhere in Hell, and he's trying to regain favor with Asmodeus in the hopes of being reinstated (the suspicion is that Asmodeus fired him because he'd be easier than ever to manipulate). "A Paladin in Hell", a 2e module, goes deeper into that. Basically, Geryon is pretty desperate to regain his position and is doing everything Asmodeus asks of him.
RedWizard 07-24-05, 05:33 PM	Where did you guys find this info, I am interested in looking at it myself as I have toyed with a Planescape campaign involving the players actually playing devils enmeshed in the Blood Wars and the intrigues of the Hells.
GothicDan 07-24-05, 07:30 PM	Supplements from 2E that would deal with the Lords of the Nine and the Dark Eight: Planes of Law Hellbound Faces of Evil: The Fiends (my personal favorite AD&D/D&D supplement of all time) A Guide to Hell There are some other supplements with references to the Dark Eight, the Baatezu, Baator, etc., (for instance, A Well of Many Worlds has an adventure in it revolving around the Blood War), but the above titles are the biggest, my important ones concerning this topic, I believe.
Chloramantis 07-24-05, 08:38 PM	Does A Paladin in Hell really talk about Geryon? How about Moloch? The Fiends is by far one of the best resources out there. Can I get A Paladin in Hell on-line anywhere?
Old Sage 07-24-05, 09:10 PM	What about Gargauth, wasn't he a devil lord?He was. The Lord Who Watches was actually once only second to the power of Asmodeus himself. There are many reasons offered for why Gargoth no longer holds the position he once did. Some suggest that he challenged Asmodeus for the ultimate power in the Nine Hells... only to be forced into exile when that bid failed. While other rumors say that he left only after Asmodeus destroyed his closest friend -- Beherit.
Demetrios 07-24-05, 10:05 PM	Does A Paladin in Hell really talk about Geryon? It certainly does. He's an important character in the module. There's a lot of good info on the politics of the Hells in it, actually...
RedWizard 07-24-05, 10:41 PM	Which plane houses the Blood Wars?
GothicDan 07-24-05, 11:16 PM	RedWizard, they all do, really. The biggest battle fields are in the three planes of the Grey Waste, however, though the other two evil planes of conflict (Carceri and Gehenna) host hefty battles as well. Then there's raids from the Baatezu's home plane (Baator) into the Tanar'ri's (the Abyss) and vice versa. But, theoretically, the Blood War can spill out into any other plane in the multiverse, and it has before. While major Blood War battles seem fairly rare on the Prime plane (probably to not attract the attention of Celestials), often the Blood War acts as a miscellaneous site for gathering souls, mercenaries, worship, magic, etc. It's the place where the plots for the Blood War spring up more than the actual battles.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-25-05, 02:55 AM	Wow i read about the reckoning, but i never thought about how the Dark Eight were really to counter-balance the Lords of the Nine. Do they have any names? Are they just pit fiends (my guess with full HP)? Also i dont think that was all of the answer that Chor was looking for. I think he wa slooking for more were are they now that the reckoning happened. The Dark 8 are mostly given details in 'Hellbound: The Blood War'. They're 'just' Pit Fiends, all of whom have no obvious powers to put them above other pit fiends, but all of whom are said by the Baatezu to each be the original 8 pit fiends who formed the Dark 8 in the Reckoning millennia ago (though in truth, only 2 of them are the original pit fiends who held that position. The other 6 have all been replaced at least once since that time, the new holder of the rank assuming the original member's name and rewriting their own history and the history of the position to reaffirm their status and the mystique of the Dark 8 as eternal and unchallanged). They're directly in the charge of the Baatezu race as it concerns itself with the Blood War, each of the 8 tasked with a specific portion of that racial goal. Furcas - Ministry of Mortal Relations (male, actually the original Furcas) Baalzephon - Ministry of Supply (female, actually the original Baalzephon) Zimmar - Ministry of Morale (female) Zapan - Ministry of Immortal Relations (male) Zaebos - Ministry of Promotions and Demotions (male) Corin - Ministry of Espionage (male) Daegos - Ministry of Strategy (male) Pearza - Ministry of Research and Implementation (female) That's the slim details.
Dark_beebles 07-25-05, 04:05 AM	What about Gargauth in all of this? Wasnt he a former archduke of hell that got raised into godhood? Does he ever try to get back or become its ruler? Only thing i ever found on this guy is he roams the prime corrupting mortals.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-25-05, 06:04 AM	What about Gargauth in all of this? Wasnt he a former archduke of hell that got raised into godhood? Does he ever try to get back or become its ruler? Only thing i ever found on this guy is he roams the prime corrupting mortals. Gargauth seems to have attempted a failed coup in Baator and was exiled on threat of death by Asmodeus. In his exile Gargauth has since become a demigod. Gargauth isn't going back to Baator because it would be a death sentence to do so given the influence that the Lords of the 9 hold on their respective layers both personally and what other deities in Baator on good relations with the Baatezu would do on their own to a returning Gargauth simply as a favor to Asmodeus. Gargauth is a demigod, Asmodeus kicked the orc and goblin pantheon out of Baator and into Acheron, Gargauth would be comitting suicide if he went back. To tell the truth, it was probably intentional for Asmodeus to spare Gargauth simply because he's more useful to him that way. Gargauth in exile is going to spread lawful evil on the prime material, which is what Asmo wants in the longrun in the universe: the spread of abstract lawful evil, and sending an exile off to do that on their own by their own free will spares him having to deal with any upset deities on whatever world Gargauth would eventually settle down on. It's a win/win situation for them both to be honest.
Arravis 07-25-05, 10:28 AM	You may find this useful, I put this together a while back... A DM's Guide to the Nine Hells (http://www.ralloszek.net/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=28487)
The Eye of the Cyclop 07-25-05, 11:07 AM	Geryon actually appears in Elminster in Hell and seems to be a kind of general to Asmodeus, acting on his will to regain his favor.
GothicDan 07-25-05, 12:54 PM	They're 'just' Pit Fiends, all of whom have no obvious powers to put them above other pit fiends, but all of whom are said by the Baatezu to each be the original 8 pit fiends who formed the Dark 8 in the Reckoning millennia ago (though in truth, only 2 of them are the original pit fiends who held that position. The other 6 have all been replaced at least once since that time, the new holder of the rank assuming the original member's name and rewriting their own history and the history of the position to reaffirm their status and the mystique of the Dark 8 as eternal and unchallanged). Just a little addendum to what Shemmy mentioned here about our wonderful Dark Eight. In 2E's Hellbound, it was said that they were just normal Pit Fiends. But now, remember, under 2E your typical monsters had no class levels, and they couldn't progress really in Hit Dice in any standardized way. In 3E, I believe that the Dark Eight would be normal Pit Fiends (i.e. no templates or unique subtypes), but they would probably have some hefty levels in classes or Hit Dice, considering their age! In 2E's Guide to Hell, information for fiendish Wizards was presented. Pit Fiends, among others, could reach unlimited levels in Wizard. To imagine Baalzephon or Furcas having Wizard levels, and being millennium upon millennium old... *Shiver* Let's just say they have the potential to thus be some of the most powerful Wizards in the multiverse, and still be no different, racially, than "normal Pit Fiends." "Normal Pit Fiends." Heh.
Pajmage 07-25-05, 09:02 PM	Geryon actually appears in Elminster in Hell and seems to be a kind of general to Asmodeus, acting on his will to regain his favor. I think in Elminster in Hell Geryon is actually the Lord of that Layer. I do recall being told by someone from these boards (Kuje31 I think) that Ed Greenwoods version of hell is different from that detailed in Book of Vile Darkness / manual of the Planes
Preternatural 07-25-05, 11:14 PM	Was the Reckoning first or does the expulsion of Gargauth predate that? And I've been rather curious about Gargauth, where can I find information on him?
Shemeska the Marauder 07-25-05, 11:24 PM	Was the Reckoning first or the expulsion of Gargauth first? Not sure. You could look to see if there was a reference for when Gargauth first appeared in Toril's timeline, and the Reckoning happened at least several millennia ago. I'd be tempted to say that Gargauth's expulsion preceeded the Reckoning, but we don't know how long Gargauth wandered in exile before arriving on Toril. For all we know he was kicked out of Baator before the formation of Toril and its solar system.
Link182 07-26-05, 12:50 AM	Yeah, whats the deal with this Garguath dude, his home plane is Faerun's Prime? Whats to stop a bunch of epic level guys from walking up and giving him a divine beat down?
Shemeska the Marauder 07-26-05, 01:16 AM	Whats to stop a bunch of epic level guys from walking up and giving him a divine beat down? The fact that he's a deity and they're mortal? And the fact that he was 'epic level' before they were born, or likely any of their ancestors were born?
Sigurd van Norhusen 07-26-05, 01:17 AM	His status as demigod, most likely. You can say the same about pre-ToT Torm or Mielikki, by the way. Why didn't anybody slay them? Guess they are too powerful for that.
Gray Richardson 07-26-05, 02:54 AM	The first mention of Gargauth in the Forgotten Realms timeline, as far as I know, was when he was released from his long imprisonment within a pit in the deepest caverns below Peleveria, the capital city of Pelerevan, by Tuelhalva Drakewings in 1020 DR. We don't know when he was imprisoned or who imprisoned him. He might have been stuck there since the time he was kicked out of Hell, or he might have roamed Toril for ages before he was imprisoned by a mortal foe. Demigods do not necessarily have a divine realm on the planes. Some demigods just make their realm on the Material Plane. Gargauth is definitely one who claims Toril as his domain.
babysamurai 07-26-05, 07:36 AM	To find out about Ed Greenwoods Nine Hells, there is an old Dragon mag article called the Nine Hells by Ed Greenwood that goes into serious detail about all the Generals, Treasurers, Consorts, Torturers, Bailifs etc of the Nine Hells. What I want to know is, what's happened to the greatest Arch-Devil of all time - Astaroth.
Pajmage 07-26-05, 07:57 AM	To find out about Ed Greenwoods Nine Hells, there is an old Dragon mag article called the Nine Hells by Ed Greenwood that goes into serious detail about all the Generals, Treasurers, Consorts, Torturers, Bailifs etc of the Nine Hells. Is there anywhere online I can find this article? pdf format maybe?
babysamurai 07-26-05, 11:20 AM	Is there anywhere online I can find this article? pdf format maybe? I don't have it myself, but I think you can buy a CD-Rom with Dragon issues 1 thru 250. The article I'm talking about is in issue #98 or something, so it should be on that CD. Good luck!
Andyr 07-26-05, 08:34 PM	There are many reasons offered for why Gargoth no longer holds the position he once did. Some suggest that he challenged Asmodeus for the ultimate power in the Nine Hells... only to be forced into exile when that bid failed. While other rumors say that he left only after Asmodeus destroyed his closest friend -- Beherit. Who was Beherit, and where is he/she/it and the relationship with Gargauth/Gargauth's expulsion detailed? If it has been written... :)
Gray Richardson 07-27-05, 02:22 AM	What I want to know is, what's happened to the greatest Arch-Devil of all time - Astaroth.Actually Astaroth is Gargauth. It is confirmed in Powers & Pantheons that Astaroth is another name--an alias--for Gargauth.