Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zsych 12-06-05, 02:35 PM	Their plan to flood the Anauroch failed, because they lost Karsus' heart, which they needed for their spell.(possibly for the heavy magic contained within, and possibly for the original weave remnant in it) With that gone, they have to move on. Now, i recall that in the enclaves of Netheril, water was typically acquired through a portal(or something along those lines), into the elemental plane of water, using pseudo-magical items. If a new enclave was raised, using the shadow weave mythallar, and most of the magic focussed into the maintaining of similar portals to the elementalal plane of water, i expect that they could substitute considerable rain, by keeping it moving. Especially if the plan was meant to be executed over a period of several years(might still effect the weather in some way). Several such water production platforms, with individual mythallar would increase the yield(and there are no Shadow-weave using phaerimm to be displeased with the massive usage of shadow-magic). Seriously, the return of the wizards of Netheril should have some serious effect on Toril. Personally, i think that weapon platforms would also be an interesting use of mythallar... something that normal wizards would be completely unable to match, with Mystra's limits on weave magic. - Of course, there is the possibility that the wizards of netheril will come to their senses like the Red wizards of Thay(who they planned to interact with at the end of the novel), who have started focussing on trade. If the Shade's don't follow a warlike path, then over several hundred years, new enclaves could rise and be populated, attracting people and magic users. In fact, they don't even need to build enclaves(initially made to protect from invading orcs and such), stable cities could just create mythallar on the ground, so that they can make the lives of citizens easier using pseudo-magical items ... It would also greatly benefit Shar, if more and more wizards turned to her(usage of the Shadow-weave isn't limited just to evil people, the inner nature it brings out in people, isn't always evil) ... which in turn could lead to Mystra taking measures to make wizards keep using the weave, like allowing higher level spells again(maybe then Elminster won't be so embarassing :) ) Of course, the overall situation could become interesting along this line of events. If Mystra made acquiring spells easier perhaps, to change the balance of power(average non-wizards of Netheril could use magic to some degree), other gods might also have to take some sort of action. ... which would basically just be an excuse to add abilities to various classes, with the help of their gods. The godless might find themselves in a bad situation though, if the gods were helping followers grow more quickly. - Anyway, this is really just an idea for what one might do, if one was playing in Faerun's future, instead of the past(like in the Netheril timeline) If one were thinking of a novel though, set in the future, we might finally have reason to see Larloch and his liches come out of Warlock's crypt at Mystra's command to help weave users counter the growing influence of shadow-mages... She might have to produce a few more copies of the Nether scrolls to convince him to do it wholeheartedly. Wonder what Shar would do in such a situation... wonder if Karsus could somehow be involved(she has his heart)... Shar could perhaps tempt him to her side, with magic similar to what Talos offered that lich magic god(to transform him from human to god)... [i've always wondered if Shar may not have been part of the reason why Karsus had his spells of insanity.. she definitely had it in for Mystryl] ... On the whole, the situation could get very interesting. Faerun would become a much more tense and interesting place, with such things happening... in the century or so it might take for things to stablize.
Rauric 12-06-05, 03:01 PM	Team with the storm and water gods like to turn some of the desert back into a sea. Talos would like it since it would destroy alot of the indiginous people and the ecosystem, and Umberlee and other sea gods would gain in power. How is this done? Ancient artifacts? Several Strom Orbs place into a bigger artifact that can magnify their powers? Epic spell?
tamashastrife 12-06-05, 05:45 PM	Just to clarify, the Shade don't want to flood Anauroch and turn it into a sea. What they want to do is re-fertilize it so it goes back to the lush land it was before the Phaerimm turned it into a barren desert with their Life Drain spells.
Borris 12-06-05, 07:45 PM	Then maybe Chauntea would agree with the plan, although we all know she would never ally with a deity such as Shar. Maybe if the Shades switched their faith to a more benevolent god. But then Shar would probably just let their flying city crash down out of spite. That wouldn't be too good for the Shades.
KnightErrantJR 12-06-05, 08:29 PM	Shhh . . . don't actually discuss this or anything, but Paul S Kemp is writing about "what comes next" in a new trilogy called the Twilight War, that will involve the characters from the Erevis Cale books. But I'm sure it will be detailed in some kind of sourcebook at some point in time. In a few of the recent sourcebooks it seems that for right now the Shadovar are just looking to trace lost Netherese bloodlines and find old Netherese artifacts.
Rauric 12-06-05, 08:42 PM	Just to clarify, the Shade don't want to flood Anauroch and turn it into a sea. What they want to do is re-fertilize it so it goes back to the lush land it was before the Phaerimm turned it into a barren desert with their Life Drain spells. Looking at the old maps from Lost Empires it looks like there was a small sea of sorts in the region that became a desert. It also mentions Ascore being a port city I believe. So putting a sea somewhere in their plans seems likely. I wouldn't mind seeing a new region. The desert which was magically created has always bothered me for some reason. A big catyclysmic change in that area wouldn't bother me too much. It would be interesting for my campaign even.
Zsych 12-07-05, 02:31 AM	The point is that they needed water to re-firtilize the land of Netheril. They were melting ice for the job. Now it was no doubt more convenient than building new mythallar and raising new enclaves, but with the current situation mythallar powering a super gate or two into the elemental plane of water should be most convenient. They could just have the new enclave fly over Netheril, with a sprinkler system, dropping massive amounts of water in the area(or develop some spells to make it spread further out) Like i said, if they plan for having effect over several years(maybe decades), it should be possible. If there were power issues, they could build something like Karsus' 2 mythallar enclave. The Shadowvar are no doubt capable of causing lots of trouble, but really, why should they? It'd just squander their resources. Besides... as i learned from playing lots of Starcraft(long time ago), it's never safe to fight from a single base. People with multiple bases pool their resources and bash your head in :) The Shadowvar's focus should be the resurrection of Netheril, and that means lots of enclaves and preferably a fertile Anauroch. Plus, we have to remember that they have high level magical technology, their lives are closer to ours than to the middle-age-ish Faerun people. Their solutions to all problems shouldn't be waging war... Though if they do, it would be really strange if they didn't succeed. It'd be kinda like America being brought down by the Taliban(in other words, bizarre). Properly prepared for battle, they should be able to field dozens of Elminster class wizards and support magical technology that would make all of the Faerunians seem like savages. [Hmm.... i've always thought that there should be an evil equivalent of Elminster and the 7 sisters. None of the powerful evil wizards seem to have any agenda beyond their immediate desires, whereas Elminster and lot meddle perpetually.]
Lord Karsus 12-09-05, 12:18 AM	Shhh . . . don't actually discuss this or anything, but Paul S Kemp is writing about "what comes next" in a new trilogy called the Shadow War, that will involve the characters from the Erevis Cale books. But I'm sure it will be detailed in some kind of sourcebook at some point in time. In a few of the recent sourcebooks it seems that for right now the Shadovar are just looking to trace lost Netherese bloodlines and find old Netherese artifacts. Aww, I wanted to say that...
Zsych 12-09-05, 01:00 AM	I haven't read the Erevis Cale books. Just hope that it doesn't turn into a case of weaklings defeating the Shadowvar again. It's bloody unnatural for great forces to be defeated by goodie goodie insects. Of course, the main character of of the Return of the Archwizards series was a sorcerer that had me thinking of Karsus with his instantaneous learning, understanding and casting of spells. Then he had the wonders of Melegaunt's(think that was his name) centuries of magical knowledge dumped into his head. Thus, where the Chosen of Mystra would have failed miserable, this guy succeeded. ... I've never approved of people winning by luck, or by some utterly twisted event. If people like the Shadowvar are to be defeated, in a book, then the Shadowvar should be allowed to properly exercise their abilities(like making mythallar based weapon platforms), and the enemy should fight them honestly, and win by ability they have worked to achieve(possibly with a strong society or three backing them). Of course, this once again brings back my question... Why should there even be a Shadow-war(and why do i expect that it'll just be Shades infiltrating places, and causing trouble, with one or two artifiacts of higher magic - like an add-on to the Cult of the Dragon, or the Zhentarim, instead of the complete range of abilities at their disposal)
Lord Karsus 12-09-05, 01:07 AM	I haven't read the Erevis Cale books. Of course, this once again brings back my question... Why should there even be a Shadow-war(and why do i expect that it'll just be Shades infiltrating places, and causing trouble, with one or two artifiacts of higher magic - like an add-on to the Cult of the Dragon, or the Zhentarim, instead of the complete range of abilities at their disposal) Actually, we don't really have a guarantee that the Shadovar will even appear, although that is unlikely. The Erevis Cale series dealt with Mask, who isn't exactly related to the Shadovar. But, by the title of the upcomming series, I'll waged the Shadovar will be making an appearance...
Zsych 12-09-05, 10:22 AM	The guidebook says to keep the Shades mysterious :) Hmm... i'd love to write a book focussed on the Shades and the resurrection of Netheril. Of course, since i'm a Netheril fan, good or evil, Netheril would be resurrected :) Though i'd probably raise a new enclave or two. Shade shouldn't be the only one guiding Netheril's policy.. the guy has gone bad. We could afford to have a few non-evil shade Archmages(people like Ioulaum). According to the books at least, using Shadow-magic only brings out one's inner nature(whatever that might be) Hmm... i remember that mage in Athalantar in the first Elminster book. The one who killed the avatar of mystra by using Shadow or planar magic... the possibilities... :) One of the guides says that Shar keeps all of the deeper secrets of the Shadow-weave for herself. Wonder what they are.
ClobberinTime 12-09-05, 10:26 AM	The idea of making a portal to the elemental plane of water is excellent, and makes the whole reasoning behind why the shadovar make the shadow canopies ridiculous. Is this in the Netheril pdf. It means I will have to rewrite the whole history of the war with the shades for my campaign. I don't see the Shades as being too agressive right now, they are trying to get their feet wet and recover as many artifacts of Netheril as possible. The major issue right now is that they have closed the Black Road and with the return of Bane, together these put Darkhold and Llork in an untenable position. Probably the Shades show up and say conver to Shar or die in both of those locales and take them over. With control of Darkhold and the Black Road the Shades can more or less control the flow of goods east and west. I think Shar really wants back her influence over the western heartlands which has historically been her most powerful region (well other than Calimishan). But this will probably revolve around refounding churches etc....
BrianCritchley 12-09-05, 08:13 PM	ya know, it's entirely possiable the shades are unable to craft another mythalar. also opening up portals to the water elemental plane might be more difficultm, AND more dangerous, as you can never be entirely sure of whats gonna come through a portal.
Seraphim of Night 12-10-05, 02:41 AM	:P Portals would likely be somewhat primitive to the Shadovar. It would be a simple thing for them to transplant water with their abilites, but they may not necessarily have to. A 1st level priest can create water. If the phaerimm can create epic life draining magics, then these attempting to recreate netheril should be able to do the reverse or they are undeserving of the name of Netheril. It is theoretically possible to recreate the mythallars, there are some in the realms now who remember how, but is it necessarily wise? I have a epic character who spent about 200 years in the past studying with the netherese, and I am not even certain that he would consider recreating one unless his position were incredibly precarius, and he was backed into a corner where he had to rely on one. Artifacts are not just created (Unless the shadovar were to recover the nether scrolls on artifact creation now... :P ) but, the real question is for most people would Mystra even allow it, unlikely I think due to the possible repurcussions (at least this mystra... :rolleyes: ). If they were to create more using the Shadow Weave without bothering with Mystra then there way becomes slightly easier. It is likely a mythallar survives in the City of Shade as it is, so they are covered. There is a great deal of power in that city, but not enough to take on all of Faerun. If Thay would ever get their act together, (unlikely :weep: ) they might be able to pull that flying city down around there ears. I think the shades best strategy is to stick with thier old territory (now the desert), and increase their numbers, and cities, make certain not to make enemies of those who could be allies (even if temporarily), reclaim their magical legacy (they would probably lay waste to my floating citadel if they knew what was inside.. :schemes: ). My Red Wizard is trying not to **** them off, but it's getting hard since both are after the same things... I actually wrote up 1/2 of a netherese flying city that our group explored. On that fateful day this one was near the Eyes of Silvanus as they are known, but something went horribly wrong and an explosion ripped the enclave in twain as it plummeted from the sky. 1/2 crashed on one of the islands at a horrible angle before being covered by unclaimed jungle and swampland. The other unexplored half lies in the ocean (I need to write up that half). I named the Floating City Terramoore.
PaulKemp 12-10-05, 09:57 AM	Actually, we don't really have a guarantee that the Shadovar will even appear, although that is unlikely. The Erevis Cale series dealt with Mask, who isn't exactly related to the Shadovar. But, by the title of the upcomming series, I'll waged the Shadovar will be making an appearance... I hereby guarantee that the Shadovar will appear in "The Twilight War." ;) Paul
Lord Karsus 12-10-05, 12:22 PM	I hereby guarantee that the Shadovar will appear in "The Twilight War." ;) Paul Wow...That was pretty cool. How that for customer service?
BrianCritchley 12-10-05, 05:19 PM	I hereby guarantee that the Shadovar will appear in "The Twilight War." ;) Paul ahh but how big a role will they play ;)
The Simbul 12-10-05, 10:12 PM	If the Shadovar are lucky enough to find an intact Mythallar then I imagine they would have more pressing uses for it than to create a mobile flying sprinkler system; namely using it to replace the cracked one they have now that has barely kept their in the air but essentially locked in their current position.
Lord Karsus 12-10-05, 10:21 PM	ahh but how big a role will they play ;) Well, we'll find out soon enough, I guess... :cough-cough-HINTS, PAUL, HINTS-cough-cough:
PaulKemp 12-11-05, 09:26 AM	Well, we'll find out soon enough, I guess... :cough-cough-HINTS, PAUL, HINTS-cough-cough: A big role. It will also answer some questions about Kesson Rel and feature events of significance for all of Faerun. I'm not allowed to say much else at this point but if you've read the Cale trilogy, you might have gleaned some more hints.
Rauric 12-11-05, 05:59 PM	Is Mask involved? Maybe his servants?
PaulKemp 12-11-05, 06:01 PM	Is Mask involved? Maybe his servants? Rauric, Since the trilogy will feature Cale, Riven, and Kesson Rel, it is fair to say that Mask is involved. ;)
Seraphim of Night 12-11-05, 10:18 PM	Ha ha, I was wondering if the Chosen of Mystra managed to damage their mythallar. It appears they have. I would think they would very much like a replacement, they might be quick to ally with or attack anyone that could help them in that regard depending on how they decide to approach it. I didn't know they were stuck in one place, does anyone know where that is? That is big news to me, I am less terrified of them now... :w00t: :ayyyy!: :plotting:
Lord Karsus 12-11-05, 11:40 PM	Ha ha, I was wondering if the Chosen of Mystra managed to damage their mythallar. It appears they have. I would think they would very much like a replacement, they might be quick to ally with or attack anyone that could help them in that regard depending on how they decide to approach it. I didn't know they were stuck in one place, does anyone know where that is? That is big news to me, I am less terrified of them now... :w00t: :ayyyy!: :plotting: If I am not mistaken, Thultanthar floating above the Sea of Shadows, or Shadow Sea, or whatever it is in the Anauroch.
Alratan 12-12-05, 08:02 AM	The Shade Princes don't need the Mythallar to gate in water. There is so much spellcasting power there that they an easily create permenant combined Gate/Anti-life sphere epic spells. I'd recomend that they opened to a region of Water close to the Positive Energy Plane, as water alone may be insufficient to counteract the Lifedrain spells. It's only DC 185 ish before mitigating factors, and cast as a ritual with 20 casters contributing 5th level spells it's trivial. Of course, you'd have to make sure you could dismiss it easily, but you'd only need one. Each one would produce about 1000 m^3/s. Now, you need about a meter of rainfall per year for good fertillity, so that is about 30 million square kilometers, or a 3000 by 10000 kilometer square. I can't find my map, so don't know the area of Anaurarch. I imagine this is sufficient though.
ClobberinTime 12-12-05, 12:11 PM	In the Lost Empires book the Sojnar's tower has portals to the elemental plane of air to bring in fresh air. If its a non-epic task to create a portal that transports only material objects and no living creatures then the opposite should be equally easy, i.e. transporting only non-living creatures. So filling up that basin there under shade would be an eary thing for them to do. Plus its very in tune with the Netherese tradition of throwing magic at even the most mundane of tasks. Also, since Telamont created the Mythallar in the first place, I would assume that he can repair it within the year. Plus he can repair it with a ritual using 9th level spell slots from his 12 sons that should make the DC to fix it low for an epic spell. Shade should be mobile in a matter of months. Of course they seem to have their hearts set on recreating old Netheril in the Anauroch.
Rauric 12-12-05, 07:06 PM	Rauric, Since the trilogy will feature Cale, Riven, and Kesson Rel, it is fair to say that Mask is involved. ;) I figured, I just wanted to make sure. I am very happy about this series. Are they going to make a pretige class for Mask's divine casters finally because of this series?
Lord Karsus 12-12-05, 11:04 PM	I figured, I just wanted to make sure. I am very happy about this series. Are they going to make a pretige class for Mask's divine casters finally because of this series? Maybe, maybe not. There's a fifty/fifty chance that they do, and a fifty/fifty chance that they don't.
GothicDan 12-12-05, 11:21 PM	Decanter of Endless Water, anyone? Only big.
Lord Karsus 12-12-05, 11:28 PM	Decanter of Endless Water, anyone? Only big. -Well, the Decanter of Endless Water can produce 30 gallons per round, at maximum effect. The FRCS says that Shade is a metroplois, with about 25,000+ citizens. So, if each citizen of the Shadow Enclave uses a Decanter of Endless Water at the same time, that comes to about 750,000 gallons of water, per round. Therefore, thats a lotta water...
Zsych 12-13-05, 05:05 AM	From what i recall of the Shadow-weave, higher level spells are possible. Since they are, creating another Shadow-weave mythallar really shouldn't be a problem. After all, it's been done before. And Telamont's sons must want to become Archmages themselves. The state of the weave(with all of Mystra's limitations) doesn't effect the shadow-weave. Still, the Shadow-weave seems to function more like Mystra's weave than Mystryl's. Telamont is written as a wizard, not an arcanist, with a mana like system for spell casting, and able to cast whatever spell he desires(until he runs out of power) off-topic: Hmmm... i was reading Champions of Ruin at a friend's place(don't have it yet myself).. and i found that i agreed with the first major baddie... also an archmage of Netheril(with his phylactary split into 200+ seperated pieces that all have to be destroyed to kill him...), but limited by Mystra's weave(unlike Larloch)... that Mystra's limitations on magic are very annoying. I wonder... if you made a portal to another world on the prime material plane, or any other plane, and cast a spell from there into Toril, would Mystra be able to disrupt it(it having an external power source). It'd be kinda like the Mechanus Cannon spell in Planescape. If it was possible to extend some other place into Toril, using some kind of portals and related spells... one may be able to dodge Mystra's control(by using otherworldy magic) ... This is really just an idea on how a non-Shadow-mage might escape Mystra' strictures. Ultimately, Mystra only controls weave-magic. Mystra's situation would become rather interesting, if portals kept popping up from other planes, with magic spouting in. Might totally remove her ability to control magic. Of course, Mystra could find a way around it, with all the magical knowledge available to her... but it would be interesting to find her in a battle with mortal wizards on such an issue, with counters being developed on both sides(except that she can bring very large amounts of power to bear, behind her spells)... wonder how things would fare if the Nether scrolls or equivalents were to be discovered(possibly by planewalkers) Either way, at least one class of wizards have escaped Mystra's control. - Shar really should start up her propoganda people, talking on the greater potential for magic in the shadow-weave. It'd lead to her gaining more of a magic portfolio, and stripping Mystra of powerful followers... who can use higher levels of magic, and might be enticed away from Mystra's weave, due to the limitations in it(considering that we even have goodies using the Shadow-weave lately). ... Shar and Mystra as competitors selling magic to people and offering more and more benefits to sell their products, really amuses me :) - Back to the water issue: The netheril sourcebook says that after Mythallar was made, wizards of the not particularly talented kind, started creating quasi-magical items for the increasing middle class of Netheril. One of this type of items was (not sure what exactly.. some type of portal) that would bring water from the elemental plane of water. Seems they didn't have our problems, having to get bottled mineral water, or desalination as is done in various places :) Alratan is right though, that the power issue can probably be handled without Mythallar... not sure you could easily move your portal though. ... Maybe a portal into the elemental plane of fire to turn the water to steam/clouds :) As for the Shadow-war: I don't think i want to see it unless the Shades are going to win(at least most of the battles)... A serious war should last several years at the least anyway... with both sides growing as it goes along(look at the improvements the caused by the Cold-war). ... Also, it shouldn't just focus on a small group of heroes... it should be several dozen campaigns joined together(with different characters handling different issues). ... More active gods, wizards like Larloch and the Champions of Ruin Netheril arch-mage in the game. ................. Maybe a campaign to get the copy of Nether scrolls that Asmodeus stole <cough> <cough> :D Well maybe the Shades and the various other descendents of Netheril could accomplish it(Mystra and her servants' foray into hell in Elminster in Hell was really embarassing... might end up with Mystra supporting the devils to help stop the Shades :) ) ------------- I really feel that the coming of the Shades should lead to a storm effecting all of Toril, changing everything and... giving us more campaign material, preferably set over several decades of turmoil, before Toril finally stablizes into...
GothicDan 12-13-05, 11:31 AM	Personally, I'm kind of sick and tired of hearing about the Shades/the Netherese. I liked them more when they were near-extinct and almost completely in hiding, the very few that did remain. We have Halruaa - which I like. Isn't that enough?
ClobberinTime 12-13-05, 02:45 PM	One decanter of endless water churns out 25,200 gallons of water a day, thats a ton, literally many many tons of water. 30x10x60x24
Lord Karsus 12-13-05, 02:56 PM	One decanter of endless water churns out 25,200 gallons of water a day, thats a ton, literally many many tons of water. 30x10x60x24 -On top of that, FRCS says that Shade is a metroplois, with about 25,000+ citizens. So, if each citizen of the Shadow Enclave uses a Decanter of Endless Water at the same time, that comes to about 750,000 gallons of water, per round. A single round is six seconds, so multiply this by 10 to get the total amount in one minute (7,500,000). Sixty minutes in an hour (450,000,000). And, since there are twenty-four hours in a day (assuming everyone in the Shadow Enclave stays up for all twenty-four hours), that makes about 10,800,000,000 gallons of water...
Seraphim of Night 12-13-05, 05:34 PM	I think that the netherese will remain near extinct, since the shades are their descendents and certainly not them and will probably never be despite their best efforts, any more than the bedouins in the Anauroch or the Uthgart. I also think that Halruaa should be blasted off the map. :P
ferratus 12-13-05, 05:57 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, bu I think the main reason to melt the Great Glacier was to get the silt, rather than the water. Sand isn't very good for growing stuff on, no matter how much water you dump on it.
Seraphim of Night 12-14-05, 03:01 AM	They probably need to restore whatever it was that the Life Drain spells used by the Phaerimm removed from their land. If they do indeed need silt, then then melting the mountains might be the easiest. But I grew up in a desert, and you might be surprised what will grow with water. Any elements should be a simple matter for the abilities at the disposal of these "princes". If they can't make a desert bloom then they aren't crap. Even Thay has awesome weather year around, although the side effects aren't so swell for thier neighbors... :P Once they have enough water for condensation within the basin of the mountains surrounding them they should be fine.
ClobberinTime 12-14-05, 03:30 PM	While it is true that glaciers tug along rock and earth and such as they move, this is not good for growing things, soil that is good for growing things is made thus by having other things grow on it and decay for a long time building up lots of good organic materials. You are right though these might be harder to come up with than the water.
Zsych 12-15-05, 05:21 AM	I'm not sure why exactly, but i've always found the death of Netheril annoying. The limitations Mystra placed on the weave, i find even more annoying... maybe it's just a reflection of how i would feel if i lived on Toril. So personally, i would like to see Netheril resurrected. In this case, i suppose, it'll be like the Mongols, or the Russians being the first into the industrial era, instead of England and the like, but still... progress must start somewhere. And from a story POV, a world where evil-ish people are the strongest and most world effecting nation is interesting. In any case, the resurrection of Netheril wouldn't exactly effect the present of Netheril, so much as the future. Toril can't stay in the middle-ages forever after all. The future Toril would be a new place to play in, or read about in Novels. That Galaeron(or whatever his name was - hero of the Return of the Archmages), might end up being the main scientist on the goodie side, as the Shades expand their power. ... Might be interesting, Netheril/Shades as Developed countries. Evereska and some elven places as Developing countries, and places like Cormyr and other human nations, ending up as Under-developed countries :) A magical cold war eventually rising in Toril, with the Netherese in the lead. (Hmm... it's mainly covert operations that're coming to my mind as possibilities of such a time). ... Sounds more like a place for high-level campaigns than normal campaigns, so it might not be as popular. - I'm not sure if Asmodeus really did end up with a set of the Nether scrolls, i just read it somewhere, but it would be interesting to see the Shades and others smuggling stuff into the 9th Hell, so they can make a Mythallar to power a city there, and attack the Hordes of Hell with... trying to get the Nether scrolls back. Average wizards may not be a match for higher level demons, but a mythallar powered city, with a huge number of quasi-magical weapons may be able to do it. Imagine the kind of craziness that an event like that could lead to(a possibly successful human attack on the 9th Hell :) ). If you go by the Neverwinter PC game, Karsus' spirit is sitting down there too....
ferratus 12-15-05, 02:37 PM	While it is true that glaciers tug along rock and earth and such as they move, this is not good for growing things, soil that is good for growing things is made thus by having other things grow on it and decay for a long time building up lots of good organic materials. You are right though these might be harder to come up with than the water. It would definately be virgin soil, but I can't imatine sand dunes could support even mosses and microbacterial fungus if left on their own. For one thing, the blowing sand would simply disperse any lower plant matter, and shred any higher plant matter. Really, what they need is some druids, with higher level, permanent versions of "plant growth spells', return the river system and minor lakes, chain or destroy the phaerimm to the underdark, and repopulate the territory with the a new population of animals (though those could be summoned with calling spells). If the Netherese clerics and druids are using shadow magic, and the calling spells summon shadow-templated animals from the shadow plane... it could be a very nasty, foreboding and gloomy place. Heck, many of the underdark fey would probably find it a nice home.
Lord Karsus 12-15-05, 02:48 PM	I'm not sure if Asmodeus really did end up with a set of the Nether scrolls, i just read it somewhere, but it would be interesting to see the Shades and others smuggling stuff into the 9th Hell, so they can make a Mythallar to power a city there, and attack the Hordes of Hell with... trying to get the Nether scrolls back. -Where did you hear that?
Seraphim of Night 12-16-05, 05:33 AM	I really kind of doubt the nether scrolls would end up off of Faerun, they are really kind of tied to this world. Besides a being like Asmodeus wouldn't have alot of use for them, except maybe to deceive and bribe wizards from Toril... :D
Zsych 12-16-05, 04:48 PM	Don't actually remember where i read it... it was a long time ago. What i remember is that mortal worship of Asmodeus, led to the formation of an Asmodeus like god(forgotten it's name). That god through some plot had possibly acquired the nether scrolls. Asmodeus later defeated and imprisoned the fake, and in so doing acquired the nether scrolls. As for what good they would do... Asmodeus does have considerable wizardly power. Who can say what a being like him would see in the reader-adaptive Nether scrolls... There are after all, many devils who would love to take his place. --- As for the Anauroch... well oasis come into existence somehow, though i don't know the dynamics of them... and they usually manage to survive sandstorms. In one of the Netheril novels, the wizard Candlemas does manage to find a counter to the Phaerimm's life-drain, causing a spreading of life all around... unfortunately for him, he gets killed by a rival of his soon after. --- Hmmm... on the issue of Lord Shade wanting to live forever. ... As long as he's not undead, proximity to the Positive plane through portal or otherwise, should prolong his life, perhaps indefinitely(at least it did that for Finder Wyvernspur, before his godhood). Definitely another thing that deserves a quasi-magical item. It might've been a problem in Netheril times, with the number of liches running around, but Shade doesn't have undead(yet), so it's an option alongside the possibility of turning into a lich to achieve immortality. No doubt being a lich is much safer than being alive. --- .... Wonder why some good-oriented, immortality seeking wizard, hasn't come up with a lich like transformation that would leave the wizard a being linked to the positive instead of the negative plane. At least the relatively safe(except in player campaigns) phylactary is immensely useful, whether or not you're undead.
Rauric 12-17-05, 02:22 AM	I don't think this event took place. Kuige? Did this event take place?
Alratan 12-17-05, 11:52 AM	In order to counteract the lifefdrain effects of the phaerimm, you are probably, as I say above, going to need positive aspected water. It's fortunate that there is an entire infinite plane of the stuff around Celestia. It'd be a bit of a dilemma, having the Shades shipping in vast quantities of something that must positivly reek of Law and Good. Might be nice to do a Shade falls out with Shar campain, culminating in the PCs accidently aiding the betrayed Lord Shadow install a revived Karsus as God of the Shadow Weave, all the time being manipulated by the Shadovar from off-plane.
Lord Karsus 12-17-05, 12:13 PM	...Karsus as God of the Shadow Weave... -Ahh, we can only pray.
Alratan 12-17-05, 12:28 PM	Shadow was Karsus' apprentice.
Lord Karsus 12-18-05, 01:15 PM	Shadow was Karsus' apprentice. I don't know about that. I haven't seen that published anywhere. But, Shadow was heavily backed by Karsus when he first began doing his research into the existence of demiplanes.
Kuje31 12-18-05, 01:18 PM	I don't think this event took place. Kuige? Did this event take place? It sounds like someone's homebrew event because I recall nothing saying that Asmo has any of the Nether Scrolls.
Lord Karsus 12-18-05, 01:23 PM	It sounds like someone's homebrew event because I recall nothing saying that Asmo has any of the Nether Scrolls. I knew that just didn't sound right...
Zsych 12-21-05, 03:45 AM	I admit that it does sound kinda strange, but it's a years old memory that kinda stuck... Except that Asmodeus having the nether scrolls didn't exactly sound useful in an ordinary campaign... just something that would add to the description of the being, to make it sound cooler, rather than to have any real game value. I wonder if those Nether scrolls that were pounded into gold pieces and sold, have recovered yet(interesting the immunity to magic but not blunt force). Maybe you could locate the existing nether scrolls(or the gold that constitutes them), with some truely powerful magical searching equipment. They might be detected as invisible, or magically undetectable holes or some such(doubt you could easily get the power for world blanketing spells though)... Some idea of where to look might be useful. ... In the Nether scrolls book, the hero made a copy(on cloth) of the nether scroll he had(what he could see of it anyway, at his level). If the existence of the cloth was backtracked to him, he might be able to direct hunters towards at least one of the scrolls, and perhaps give them an idea of where to look for a few more pages. ... As for Karsus as God of the Shadow-weave. An utterly cool idea. Unfortunately, with Shar being it's creator, she could likely just de-activate it. Karsus would need lots of experience with it to have any chance of stealing it away from Shar(and then defending from her following divine attacks). Still... i really wonder why Shar isn't attracting followers to the Shadow-weave. What does it matter if they're good. Every mage who uses the shadow-weave is one less that uses Mystra's weave, or venerates Mystra.