Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DaelricHearthsinger 05-13-07, 10:36 PM	In another thread I mentioned that the "Divine Trio" of the Realms might be best described as the following three people(in my humble opinion) 1) Ed Greenwood: He IS Elminster...nuff said. 2) R.A. Salvatore: Love him, hate him, or just sick of the millions of fanboys but without that oh so famous drow the Realms would not be as big as they are. 3) Elaine Cunningham: Like R.A. Salvatore without her contributions the Realms would not be as big as they are today. thoughts?
Old Sage 05-13-07, 11:49 PM	Both Ed and Elaine already know how much I appreciate their efforts with regard to the Realms. Nothing more needs to be said here. However, as I said in the other thread... I'd replace RAS with Steven Schend. I would do this, not only because Steven Schend has displayed an exceptional mastery of both the Realmslore and using that lore in his tales, but also due to personal reasons that directly involve comments made by RAS. I will say that, before this incident actually occured, I did have some respect for RAS, as both a writer and weaver of Realmslore. Not so much, now...
MarkusTay63 05-14-07, 12:06 AM	Ooooooohhh... DRAMA. :blink: Perhaps we should then list him as one of the 'Dark Gods". ;)
DaelricHearthsinger 05-14-07, 08:03 AM	Old Sage I believe that the same thread that inspired this one ;) I see your point on Mr. Schend and do agree with you on his use and creation of Realmslore, but you have to remember it was Salvatore's Icewind Dale trilogy that really helped the Realms in its infancy (well public infancy anyway). Again like it or not, that dern drow is perhaps the second most important character in the history of the Realms growth.
Dielzen 05-14-07, 08:47 AM	I fail to see how a game designer isn't in this. The novels are great, and full of wonderful lore, but without game desginers to translate this stuff to a ruleset that would get played, much of the Realms would have died in it's infancy. (And, yes, I'm aware of Ed's ability to fill this role, but since FR's purchase, he has not put out the majority of the rule-stuff on the Realms) Granted, I don't really have a suggestion, as I like a lot of the designers (Tom Costa and Julia Martin being two of my personal favorites, but that's cause of their willingness to talk to "lay" people)
DaelricHearthsinger 05-14-07, 09:47 AM	Perhaps it's also time period involved, I've been a fan since opening a now legendary grey box way back when(still got it too :) ). So to me they are kinda the forefathers of everything you see today, so maybe it's colored a bit by nostalgia. But without the three novelists the games designers now wouldn't be writing Realmslore. Again I don't think anyone's opinion would be wrong here, this is more a post about who that person would pick, there's never gonna be a definitive answer as its purely opinion, and we all know what they say about opinions ;)
Xavier_of_Cormyr 05-14-07, 01:13 PM	Ed never was a game designer IMO. He created the realms as a world for his stories. When Gygax threw D&D out there, Ed must have said to himself "AH HA... I can get on board with this... it'll be a nice medium for friends to enjoy my world & act out the stories I wrote with characters I created" Ed is, was, and always will be the king of FR fluff, but as far as crunch goes, he could care less (and he doesn't have to... ever)
Dielzen 05-14-07, 05:38 PM	I should add that I was more stating "in my opinion you have to include 1 game designer" not that "not including a game designer is stupid" :) And Ed's done a ton of game design stuff, but for the most you're right, it's mostly him creating rules for his visions. The main reason I say a game designer type is so important is that it's hard to take someone else's concepts and turn them into something usable, in terms of game rules/concepts.
GothicDan 05-14-07, 05:39 PM	I'd replace RAS with Schend for very much the same reasons as RAS. ;) I don't care about how popular any aspect of the Realms is with the public, either. And I'll also note that those people who like Schend the most are the same people who did appreciate those oldest of sources...
Hawkfeather 05-14-07, 07:13 PM	One more name: Eric Boyd. I know we're talking about a "Trio" here, but he is far too important to Realmslore to be not cited in a thread like this.
DaelricHearthsinger 05-14-07, 08:30 PM	Again all good choices.. wow this is tough..so many choices..so many real contributors...perhaps a simple.. *raises glass of Waterdeep Brandy* "Cheers Mates, to all who made the Realms what they truly are today!" should suffice ;)
Dark Wizard 05-14-07, 10:51 PM	If only talking about Novels, the obvious choices are Ed Greenwood, Elaine Cunningham, and R.A. Salvatore, since they're the first three to get individual Best of the Realms anthologies. Though I feel Thomas M. Reid and Paul S. Kemp are rapidly rising FR novel stars and deserve well earned honorable mentions. The authors of the older novels also deserve mention, Douglas Niles, Jeff Grubb, Troy Denning, James Lowder. Interestingly, the first three work as a trio because of their respective contributions. One is the origin, one helped shape much of the history and atmosphere, the other provided the sheer power of popularity. There might really be something divine about how all that came together. In terms of sourcebooks and lore I think it would be Ed Greenwood in the preeminent spot obvious, then Eric Boyd and Steven Schend. Jeff Grubb is tied with the latter two because of his instrumentals involvement in the early published Realms, which really is underrated and underappreciated. I think another underrated designer is David "Zeb" Cook, who wrote a couple of novels, some sourcebooks, and worked on most of the side settings (Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Maztica), love them or hate them they're there. And more importantly the connection settings (Planescape, et al.) interacting with the Realms which is very much in the spirit of Ed's portal laden concept.
GothicDan 05-14-07, 10:57 PM	I don't know how I could have forgotten Eric! *Sobs.* I'm sorry, Eric. I'd have to say that my 'favorite' designers/novelists would be Eric, Ed, Steven, and Elaine. I can't keep it to a trio. Sorry!
Old Sage 05-15-07, 01:05 AM	I initially thought this was being limited this to just FR novel authors. However, if we're expanding to include both authors and game designers, then yes, Eric L Boyd should also receive his due. As should George Krashos, Ed Bonny, and Tom Costa, to name just a few...
Krash 05-15-07, 08:04 AM	Don't name me among such august company. In comparison, I don't rate a mention. -- George Krashos
Renvale999 05-15-07, 01:20 PM	Don't name me among such august company. In comparison, I don't rate a mention. -- George Krashos Yeah you do George, just for the simple fact that you're willing to get on here and give us all your input once in a while...to me that shows you care about us fans and the game itself, you don't see many companies where the designers and such are more than willing to interact with the consumers...I just think it's plain awesome when you see Eric, Paul, George and Tom get on here and give us their input...even sit and argue with us if we disagree, that means alot to me and it should mean alot to everyone else.
GothicDan 05-15-07, 01:26 PM	I DO like Krash's arguing with us. A designer willing to argue his point means that he's spent more than passing thought in forming it!
TomCosta 05-15-07, 05:03 PM	I'll have to agree with George (who is far more of a Realms guru than I). I certainly have not contributed as much to the Realms as Ed, Elaine, Salvatore, Steven, Eric, or many others in terms of lore, popularizing the setting, writing novels, game products, or even plain ol crunch. But I will agree that all five of those folks have been critical to the existence and development of the Realms. Another who belongs in that tier is Jeff Grubb, but we shouldn't forget the contributions of folks like Julia Martin, Rich Baker, Sean Reynolds, James Lowder, and other folks mentioned by Dark Wizard and others, and newer authors who are bringing in new fans like Paul Kemp and too many others (I don't mean to leave anyone out, the list is long). The thing that makes it challenging is some folks have been working in the Realms almost consistently from the beginning, others have come and gone, and some are new contributors, but many have left their wonderful mark, and they outweigh those who left a mark we wish were a bit less indellible. All that said, I appreciate the kind remarks, but I'm just a fan, who's been fortunate enough to have some ideas the "man" (or as often the "woman") has liked. :-) And as a fan, it's always been my pleasure to participate on these boards and those on Candlekeep. They wouldn't work without everyone else, and I'm just a bit player with the occasional line. Heck, I rely on you all probably far more than I contribute.
Francius 05-15-07, 05:55 PM	Il signore R.A.Salvatore and Drizz't do Urden were my portal to the FR novels, although I entered the world with the 2nd edition campaign setting long before reading those. So, to me, Salvatore is exactly right behind ED in the divine trio ranking. The third person would be Eric L.Boyd, for the work he's done in the role-playing sourcebooks Realms sector during the 2nd edition days. Steven E.Schend would be fourth in my list. Edit: Dan's correction
GothicDan 05-15-07, 06:00 PM	Erik's never worked on sourcebooks. Do you mean Eric?
Dielzen 05-15-07, 06:52 PM	Erik's never worked on sourcebooks. Do you mean Eric? Erik...Mona? Thought he did Faiths & Pantheons (with Eric)...or is there another Erik I'm forgetting (there's only 100,000 authors out there)
Francius 05-15-07, 07:15 PM	No, Dan meant that Erik S.De Bie never wrote any sourcebooks. His observation was to correct the wrong "Eric" I earlier mentioned that designed sourcebooks - while I meant Eric L.Boyd I mistakenly wrote De Bie instead. Typing fast sometimes leads to confusion...:rolleyes: ...or is there another Erik I'm forgetting (there's only 100,000 authors out there) Well, the Realms have so many writers/designers/authors/contributors...it's one of the aspects of the setting I most like.
Old Sage 05-15-07, 08:19 PM	And as a fan, it's always been my pleasure to participate on these boards and those on Candlekeep.Thanks Tom. Candlekeep greatly values both the interactions and contributions we share with the various authors and game designers who make the Realms such an established setting. We feel unique in that regard.
GothicDan 05-15-07, 10:59 PM	Mind you, I wasn't trying to be snipey in my correction. Just wanted to make sure the right Erik/Eric was being lauded, there. :) Though Erik seems like a pretty spot on sort of fellow, and I wish I had had more time and money in the past to read his stuff. Now that summer's about, I have time... But money.. Hm..
Old Sage 05-15-07, 11:32 PM	Erik's a great guy. I've really come to value most of our discussions about various aspects of the Realms and his works. And I'm also appreciative of his ability to weave Realmslore tidbits into his tales. Depths of Madness was a real treat in that regard. I'm looking forward to whatever's to come from the quill of this particular offer. ... ... ... *You can send me that cheque whenever you want, Erik* :P ;)
GothicDan 05-15-07, 11:35 PM	Hm... Praise by the Old Sage himself! I'll definitely have to buy Depths of Madness now. So that's two FR books on my list that the Sage has put on there. ;)
Old Sage 05-15-07, 11:37 PM	Two? What was the other?
GothicDan 05-15-07, 11:38 PM	You made me aware of the most recent Best of the Realms, all about Elaine! :)
Old Sage 05-16-07, 01:22 AM	Which reminds me... I've got to visit the bookstore during my lunch break.
GothicDan 05-16-07, 01:30 AM	Darn you, having a job!
Old Sage 05-16-07, 03:02 AM	Heh. I don't really consider it a job, as such though... more like "the means by which I can buy plenty of books, keep Narnra entertained and healthy, and maintain the Lady K's standard of living." :D
GothicDan 05-16-07, 10:54 AM	Well.. Whatever that is... I wish I had one... While remaining fully enrolled in school. ;)
Ramenth 05-16-07, 05:38 PM	Who wins in a fight, Elminster, Drizzt, or... Some well-liked character of Elaine Cunninghams (Havent read her stuff yet.)
GothicDan 05-16-07, 05:39 PM	... I vote to strike that post from the record.
Lord Karsus 05-16-07, 06:16 PM	-Motion denied. Let's first see what kinds of hijinks spring up, as a result of said post in question.
GothicDan 05-16-07, 06:20 PM	You can't deny the motion without majority negation!
Lord Karsus 05-16-07, 06:23 PM	-You wanna bet? -In Karsus' Kourt, I make the rulez...
GothicDan 05-16-07, 06:25 PM	I'm glad I was proposing the motion outside of a courtroom!
Lord Karsus 05-16-07, 07:28 PM	-These message boards fall under my jurisdiction...:)
GothicDan 05-16-07, 07:36 PM	I'm older than you and command more High Magic!
Lord Karsus 05-16-07, 08:12 PM	-Silence! Do you want to be held in contempt of court?
GothicDan 05-16-07, 08:19 PM	I have nothing BUT contempt for this court. ... Cookie to anyone who gets the reference.
Old Sage 05-16-07, 08:34 PM	"Such heroic nonsense." That good enough GD? ;)
GothicDan 05-16-07, 10:20 PM	Hoorah! I was playing finally with the 20th Anniversary Edition today. Now Soundwave is my desktop. :)
Old Sage 05-16-07, 10:29 PM	Ah, Soundwave... always one of my favorites. 'Tis ashame we won't be seeing him in the feature film due for release later this year. :(
GothicDan 05-16-07, 10:31 PM	I know! Gah. I really hope they don't mess this up...
Old Sage 05-16-07, 10:36 PM	Agreed. I'm skeptical about the whole project... though curious enough to "want to see" the final result.
GothicDan 05-16-07, 10:47 PM	Indeed. I'll pay to see it in the movies... If at the very least to support years of childhood (and some adult age..) nostalgia!
Alac Luin 05-16-07, 11:23 PM	Ah, Soundwave... always one of my favorites. 'Tis ashame we won't be seeing him in the feature film due for release later this year. :( Well, he has been busy running for student body president in college.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6klaUw997Qo and learning to break dance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCYLEO9sIVQ&mode=related&search=
Old Sage 05-16-07, 11:37 PM	Heh. Thanks Alac... I needed that. ;)
Alac Luin 07-03-07, 09:55 PM	An update on soundwave.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TYzRanykbQ
MerrikCale 07-03-07, 10:07 PM	Both Ed and Elaine already know how much I appreciate their efforts with regard to the Realms. Nothing more needs to be said here. However, as I said in the other thread... I'd replace RAS with Steven Schend. I would do this, not only because Steven Schend has displayed an exceptional mastery of both the Realmslore and using that lore in his tales, but also due to personal reasons that directly involve comments made by RAS. The fact remains that RAS put the realms on another level with his books and their popularity. Whether you like his books or not (and I do, much more than Ed's fiction), you must realize he is easily the most popular author of the setting. I agree that Mr. Schend should replace Elaine (whose work I truly admire). Although I would argue Eric Boyd as #3 as others have mentioned.
Old Sage 07-03-07, 10:25 PM	Whether you like his books or not (and I do, much more than Ed's fiction), you must realize he is easily the most popular author of the setting.I actually have enjoyed some of RAS's books [mostly his earlier Realms works -- especially the 'Cleric Quintet']. The issue I have with RAS relates, as I said before, to some comments he made elsewhere that affected me on a personal level. I didn't care for those particular comments, and my attitude on RAS, as an author, changed as a result. I don't particularly feel comfortable discussing this, so I think I'll just leave it at that.
XHereticX 07-03-07, 11:03 PM	Mind you, I wasn't trying to be snipey in my correction. Just wanted to make sure the right Erik/Eric was being lauded, there. :) Though Erik seems like a pretty spot on sort of fellow, and I wish I had had more time and money in the past to read his stuff. Now that summer's about, I have time... But money.. Hm.. Oh you'll like Erik Scott de Bie's stuff Dan, very smexy...cest...yeah...;) get a job you lazy ass hmm, big three. For me its Ed, RAS, and Eric Boyd. Elaine's not on there only because I'm not very familiar with her stuff (im a newer realms fan) I also thank ALL the designers and authors out there for their hard work and dedication to this great setting. In a way, everyone is equally deserving of praise, since everyone builds upon each other's work to make FR great.
MerrikCale 07-04-07, 08:16 AM	I actually have enjoyed some of RAS's books [mostly his earlier Realms works -- especially the 'Cleric Quintet']. The issue I have with RAS relates, as I said before, to some comments he made elsewhere that affected me on a personal level. I didn't care for those particular comments, and my attitude on RAS, as an author, changed as a result. I don't particularly feel comfortable discussing this, so I think I'll just leave it at that. Without discussing the comments, as you state, your attitude changed. The fact remains he is as instrumental as anyone in making the Realms popular.
captaincarot 07-07-07, 03:59 AM	I don't care about how popular any aspect of the Realms is with the public, either. hahahahahahah bet you do really. the reason being if it wasn't popular with the public it would stop being published, then it would die and we would all end up crying into our beer. so for that reason alone, you have to respect RAS contribution to the realms. and that durned drow. the rest of the authors, i won't comment on, other than to say, i've sat and read books which have excited me, made me laugh, and made me want to read every page right now. i've read others which i've thought were so transparent and formulaic i could see the out come a mile away, and other bits which really should not been there. i wont disparage the author of any of them, when it comes down to it, they've done a better job of it than i did and they've added to my enjoyment and understanding of the realms, so thank you to all of em. to me the only person who stands head and shoulders above everyone else is ED, for creating the concept in the first place. oh and to krash and mr costa, bah shut up being modest and enjoy basking in the light of a bit of adulation:D
Krash 07-08-07, 08:13 AM	oh and to krash and mr costa, bah shut up being modest and enjoy basking in the light of a bit of adulation:D :D Whilst I can't speak for Tom, I can say that for every bit of "adulation" I get from the Boards, I get just as much indirect negativity. Usually not personally, but in the form of "Product X is a crock of c#@p" when I've worked my tail off on Product X (in the small ways that I do assist with FR products). I can only imagine how the authors feel ... :weep: Given that GHotR is my first (small) official writing gig, I'm both excited about its release and dreading some of the feedback. The truism about not pleasing everybody, all of the time, definitely exists in the environment of the FR fanbase. -- George Krashos
Gelcur 07-08-07, 01:39 PM	I think you guys have mentioned some great people in FR lore creation. On a personal note I am extremely happy Jeff Grubb was mentioned. I first read his work when he wrote for Magic the Gathering and I was very very impressed by it. It wasn't till later I found out he had such a history of D&D work behind him especially realms lore. Just last month I read Cormyr and I still love his work, a great pairing with Ed on that one and I just wish I could see more new work by him.
TomCosta 07-09-07, 09:09 PM	:D Whilst I can't speak for Tom, I can say that for every bit of "adulation" I get from the Boards, I get just as much indirect negativity. Usually not personally, but in the form of "Product X is a crock of c#@p" when I've worked my tail off on Product X (in the small ways that I do assist with FR products). I can only imagine how the authors feel ... :weep: Given that GHotR is my first (small) official writing gig, I'm both excited about its release and dreading some of the feedback. The truism about not pleasing everybody, all of the time, definitely exists in the environment of the FR fanbase. -- George Krashos Bah, unlike George, I am a rock and I don't listen to anyone on any of the boards.... Seriously, It's a great thrill for me personally when I see my name on an article or in a game product and it's been a great honor to have had the confidence of Eric (who I now am fortunate enough to count as a friend) and some of the other designers from time to time as they work on projects, but the biggest thrill is getting the kind words of the FR community. Like I think most other designers or writers, it stings a bit when someone doesn't like what you've done (though the sting of a much needed editor can be pretty hard too :-), but by and large, so far my little contributions have mostly been well received for which I'm quite grateful. And that said, George is a god of FR history and lore. I am in constantly in awe of his encyclopedic knowledge of the realms and creativity. He's up there with Ed and Eric.
msatran 07-10-07, 10:39 AM	All I could think of was... And now...live on stage... The Forgotten Realms Divine Trio...ONE NIGHT ONLY... Storm Silverhand, Mintiper Moonsilver, and Olive Ruskettle! Three Big Acts on a single stage! Your seat costs a mere fifty gold pieces!