The Shadow Weave??? Cool! [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Shadow Weave??? Cool! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Masks_revenge
02-12-06, 08:02 AM Having been introduced to the shadow weave through various products by WoTC, I have become addicted to all the special abilities and shadow oriented spells that those who use the Shadow weave are able to use. As a DM I would like to utilize the shadow weave in my games. :plotting: Now does any one know where I can get more information on all shadow weave oriented classes, abilities, and spells? I have the MoF and FRCS products but I find that even though they have a lot of info I am left with questions about descriptions and possible combinations of shadow abilities with regular abilities offered by using the weave. Any help, ideas for templates and, or gaming concepts concerning how to control a battle that may involve shadow jumping (in other words a light map for a battlefield). You may find my request vague but I really have no experience with any of the above and I want to hear what other people do to accomadate the shadow weave and all it brings. Thanks for the help.

A devout Mask follower. :smirk:
Myssa Rei
02-12-06, 11:25 PM Shadow-weave classes? Aside from the Shadow Adept (Player's Guide to Faerun, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting), there aren't any. Also as far as combining Weave and Shadow Weave magics, it's not really possible because at the moment you choose Shadow Weave Magic (the feat), you can no longer use Weave-based items or spells. In the same vein, Weave-based users can't use any Shadow-Weave enchanted items. It's just one or the other.

For templates related to the Shadovar (the Shade template is in both the FRCS and Races of Faerun), or lore, Lords of Darkness and Champions of Ruin have what you need.

Conceivably, any spell with the Shadow descriptor might be considered Shadow-Weave magic when cast by a Shadow Weave user.

While there's nothing in the rules to replicate the effects of Weave magic and Shadow Weave magic interacting, story wise it's a very VERY bad idea. The Sharn Wall was breached by one interaction, and Elminster being shunted to Hell was another.
Ripe
02-13-06, 02:49 AM ...Also as far as combining Weave and Shadow Weave magics, it's not really possible because at the moment you choose Shadow Weave Magic (the feat), you can no longer use Weave-based items or spells. In the same vein, Weave-based users can't use any Shadow-Weave enchanted items. It's just one or the other.
...
I wouldn't say that you can't use Weave based items. I'd say that you just face some form of penalty - either in the form of temporary ability damage (like Shadow Weave items do to Weave user), negative levels or something else which is up to you as DM.
johnis
02-13-06, 06:53 AM When I found out about Shadow Weave I was delighted (i mean with the whole idea having someone besides Mystra controlling your spells etc). Then I started looking for stuff just like you and didn't find anything... I have checked lots of books reffering to spellcasters -they mention Shadow Weave and how Shar controls it and details about spellcasters using it, but I think the designers have not put much thought into it yet. I have not found any other prestige class and considering the disadvantages of not being in the Weave I think it 'snot a good idea for a character taking the feat. Only for role-playing purposes. Anyway if you come up with anything, please share it
Ripe
02-13-06, 07:30 AM First of all, you must realize that SW is a new concept (it appeard for the first time with 3E, there was something called Shadow Magic in 2nd ed but it's something completely different).
Second, Shar is goddes of Secrets (among other things) and she kept SW a closely guarded secret for years, reveiling it slightly only after ToT.

Those two facts put together are reason why you have only two SW PrC's (Shadow Adept and Nightcloak who are Shar's specialty priests [they are detailed in Faiths & Pantheons]). The reason why there is no SW spells is simple: because they DO NOT EXIST (just like there is no Weave spells). Every spell can be cast by either weave (some are useless when cast with a wrong weave, but...).
Masks_revenge
02-13-06, 10:39 AM After reading the Shadow Weave magic feat description it speficically states that with illusion, necromatic, and darkness spells (I think I might be missing one other type) you as a shadow weave user get bonuses of like either +2 or +4 for DC save casting purposes. However you get negatives for casting and saving like transmutation and evocation spells. Also you can cast the usual spells but with the above applying to the outcome. All in all you get a little style to your spells. Good for roleplaying. There are also other shadow weave feats that enhance your shadow weave magic.

As for Magic items that were weave created, I as a DM would make shadow weave created magical items accessable for my players if they could only use them, not in excess but they would be avialable.

And lastly, My players have showed no interest of the shadow weave but..... as a DM, I would love to give my players a little curve ball now and then. Sometimes having them wonder what the heck just beat them up with all this dark magic is good to keep the game honest...well maybe interesting would have been a better word to end that with. :evillaugh :plotting: :behold:

Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject and maybe this next magic books that WoTC is putting out will shed some shadow (light :D ) on the subject better.
Kuje31
02-13-06, 11:08 AM First of all, you must realize that SW is a new concept (it appeard for the first time with 3E, there was something called Shadow Magic in 2nd ed but it's something completely different).

Mostly true. :) However, it actually was also created in 2e because Rich's Shadow Stone novel was written in 2e and it was originally a birthright novel that got tacked into FR.
Old Sage
02-13-06, 12:07 PM First of all, you must realize that SW is a new concept (it appeard for the first time with 3E, there was something called Shadow Magic in 2nd ed but it's something completely different).The FRCS merely 'canonised' the concept of the shadow weave... a concept that was already at play in The Shadow Stone novel as Kuje stated above. Its inclusion in 3e... merely gave it a more solid grounding in the Realmslore.
Rapiersman
02-13-06, 01:05 PM I am currently playing a shadow weave user (NE moon elf enchanter lvl 4 currently, aiming for the Shadow Adept prestige class). He's a bitter, weak-willed and cowardly bastard who's going to revenge certain wrongs done to him. I love Shadow Weave for the style, but I must say that the advantages aren't really big considering the disadvantages.. +1 to the DC of three different schools, penalty to the manifester level when casting evocation or transmutation spells. Not that great. But it's ok for me.

And Shar is possibly my fave evil deity.
Masks_revenge
02-13-06, 04:13 PM Here is something worth knowing. :smirk: I just made a wizard/shadow adept CR15 roughly and as I wrote down the spells that he would have available I went heavy on the Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment, and Darkness spells for the NPC's spells. Now I of course took needed spells like dispel magic and permanancy and so on, but I found that although there aren't many attack spells that make you really feel like you are casting a good ol' fireball there are spells that devestate the enemy to the point where a first level fighter could clean up the left overs. All in all it would seem teamwork is encouraged in this sense. Also, role-playing the evil nature of the magic and peoples reactions will be real fun. Especially b/c not many people are familiar with the shadow weave. Another thing to consider for role-playing is that it really shakes things up. I love fireball and lightning bolt as much as the next guy but hey change can be good. My only wish is that there could be a spell like darkbolt for shadow adept/wizards that tap the shadow weave could use as a kinda fireball like spell. I'll probably make up some spell and post it for consideration if it's powered correctly. Let me know if there is already something like that in the spell compedium as I do not own that book yet. :(

Thanks every one for all the replies and advice. I appreciate the help. :bow:
ShadeMaster
02-25-06, 01:50 PM Know how you were were talking about shadow weave fireball, I think of spells of not how they are written but how you want them to be. this works for me, just picture fireball in your
mind now change the flames to shadows the spell name to darkflame, darkfire, or darkblast and change the type of damage to cold.
Telagaunt
02-25-06, 02:18 PM shadow conjuration, greater shadow conjuration, shadow evocation, and greater shadow evocation are useful spells for mimicing 'attack' spells. Granted they are quasi-real but they mimic any evocation and conjuration spell up to 4th or 5th level, but targets have to make a Will save, or they can't even tell the difference and the spell deals damage/effect as normal. You can take a look at the specifics on the SRD or PHB. But they do come in handy. The Shadowcaster PrC in the Underdark sourcebook is designed to amplify these spells so that they are more 'real' (up to 80% real).

Here are some more spells on WotC you might find useful: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cc/20011111e

EDIT: One more thing to consider is, a Shadowmage is perfectly capable of casting a fireball, or lighting bolt as it's meant to and with the correct energy types, you get some penalties depending on certain spells, but... they hardly make a difference IMO once you reach a certain level. And you saying a caster level of 15, shouldn't cause any real problems.
createvmind
02-25-06, 05:07 PM I enjoyed the Shadow stone novel and I definitely in my mind and from the book see the Shadow weave as something that Shar stumbled upon herself, augmented and eventually controlled. The main char in the novel was by no means a follower of Shar and was able to and continued to use both weave and SW magic.
Telagaunt
02-25-06, 06:49 PM Well you dont need to be a follower of Shar to use the Shadow Weave, or be a shade for that matter either. And Aeron didn't completely use both Weaves, but it was the framework of the Shadow Weave we know, and it's explained that him using 'both' Weaves was kinda like the transition phase into the Shadow Weave. Even back then in the novel, it stated it was harder and harder for Aeron to 'grasp' the Weave (or 'light') strands.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Masks_revenge 02-12-06, 08:02 AM	Having been introduced to the shadow weave through various products by WoTC, I have become addicted to all the special abilities and shadow oriented spells that those who use the Shadow weave are able to use. As a DM I would like to utilize the shadow weave in my games. :plotting: Now does any one know where I can get more information on all shadow weave oriented classes, abilities, and spells? I have the MoF and FRCS products but I find that even though they have a lot of info I am left with questions about descriptions and possible combinations of shadow abilities with regular abilities offered by using the weave. Any help, ideas for templates and, or gaming concepts concerning how to control a battle that may involve shadow jumping (in other words a light map for a battlefield). You may find my request vague but I really have no experience with any of the above and I want to hear what other people do to accomadate the shadow weave and all it brings. Thanks for the help. A devout Mask follower. :smirk:
Myssa Rei 02-12-06, 11:25 PM	Shadow-weave classes? Aside from the Shadow Adept (Player's Guide to Faerun, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting), there aren't any. Also as far as combining Weave and Shadow Weave magics, it's not really possible because at the moment you choose Shadow Weave Magic (the feat), you can no longer use Weave-based items or spells. In the same vein, Weave-based users can't use any Shadow-Weave enchanted items. It's just one or the other. For templates related to the Shadovar (the Shade template is in both the FRCS and Races of Faerun), or lore, Lords of Darkness and Champions of Ruin have what you need. Conceivably, any spell with the Shadow descriptor might be considered Shadow-Weave magic when cast by a Shadow Weave user. While there's nothing in the rules to replicate the effects of Weave magic and Shadow Weave magic interacting, story wise it's a very VERY bad idea. The Sharn Wall was breached by one interaction, and Elminster being shunted to Hell was another.
Ripe 02-13-06, 02:49 AM	...Also as far as combining Weave and Shadow Weave magics, it's not really possible because at the moment you choose Shadow Weave Magic (the feat), you can no longer use Weave-based items or spells. In the same vein, Weave-based users can't use any Shadow-Weave enchanted items. It's just one or the other. ... I wouldn't say that you can't use Weave based items. I'd say that you just face some form of penalty - either in the form of temporary ability damage (like Shadow Weave items do to Weave user), negative levels or something else which is up to you as DM.
johnis 02-13-06, 06:53 AM	When I found out about Shadow Weave I was delighted (i mean with the whole idea having someone besides Mystra controlling your spells etc). Then I started looking for stuff just like you and didn't find anything... I have checked lots of books reffering to spellcasters -they mention Shadow Weave and how Shar controls it and details about spellcasters using it, but I think the designers have not put much thought into it yet. I have not found any other prestige class and considering the disadvantages of not being in the Weave I think it 'snot a good idea for a character taking the feat. Only for role-playing purposes. Anyway if you come up with anything, please share it
Ripe 02-13-06, 07:30 AM	First of all, you must realize that SW is a new concept (it appeard for the first time with 3E, there was something called Shadow Magic in 2nd ed but it's something completely different). Second, Shar is goddes of Secrets (among other things) and she kept SW a closely guarded secret for years, reveiling it slightly only after ToT. Those two facts put together are reason why you have only two SW PrC's (Shadow Adept and Nightcloak who are Shar's specialty priests [they are detailed in Faiths & Pantheons]). The reason why there is no SW spells is simple: because they DO NOT EXIST (just like there is no Weave spells). Every spell can be cast by either weave (some are useless when cast with a wrong weave, but...).
Masks_revenge 02-13-06, 10:39 AM	After reading the Shadow Weave magic feat description it speficically states that with illusion, necromatic, and darkness spells (I think I might be missing one other type) you as a shadow weave user get bonuses of like either +2 or +4 for DC save casting purposes. However you get negatives for casting and saving like transmutation and evocation spells. Also you can cast the usual spells but with the above applying to the outcome. All in all you get a little style to your spells. Good for roleplaying. There are also other shadow weave feats that enhance your shadow weave magic. As for Magic items that were weave created, I as a DM would make shadow weave created magical items accessable for my players if they could only use them, not in excess but they would be avialable. And lastly, My players have showed no interest of the shadow weave but..... as a DM, I would love to give my players a little curve ball now and then. Sometimes having them wonder what the heck just beat them up with all this dark magic is good to keep the game honest...well maybe interesting would have been a better word to end that with. :evillaugh :plotting: :behold: Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject and maybe this next magic books that WoTC is putting out will shed some shadow (light :D ) on the subject better.
Kuje31 02-13-06, 11:08 AM	First of all, you must realize that SW is a new concept (it appeard for the first time with 3E, there was something called Shadow Magic in 2nd ed but it's something completely different). Mostly true. :) However, it actually was also created in 2e because Rich's Shadow Stone novel was written in 2e and it was originally a birthright novel that got tacked into FR.
Old Sage 02-13-06, 12:07 PM	First of all, you must realize that SW is a new concept (it appeard for the first time with 3E, there was something called Shadow Magic in 2nd ed but it's something completely different).The FRCS merely 'canonised' the concept of the shadow weave... a concept that was already at play in The Shadow Stone novel as Kuje stated above. Its inclusion in 3e... merely gave it a more solid grounding in the Realmslore.
Rapiersman 02-13-06, 01:05 PM	I am currently playing a shadow weave user (NE moon elf enchanter lvl 4 currently, aiming for the Shadow Adept prestige class). He's a bitter, weak-willed and cowardly bastard who's going to revenge certain wrongs done to him. I love Shadow Weave for the style, but I must say that the advantages aren't really big considering the disadvantages.. +1 to the DC of three different schools, penalty to the manifester level when casting evocation or transmutation spells. Not that great. But it's ok for me. And Shar is possibly my fave evil deity.
Masks_revenge 02-13-06, 04:13 PM	Here is something worth knowing. :smirk: I just made a wizard/shadow adept CR15 roughly and as I wrote down the spells that he would have available I went heavy on the Illusion, Necromancy, Enchantment, and Darkness spells for the NPC's spells. Now I of course took needed spells like dispel magic and permanancy and so on, but I found that although there aren't many attack spells that make you really feel like you are casting a good ol' fireball there are spells that devestate the enemy to the point where a first level fighter could clean up the left overs. All in all it would seem teamwork is encouraged in this sense. Also, role-playing the evil nature of the magic and peoples reactions will be real fun. Especially b/c not many people are familiar with the shadow weave. Another thing to consider for role-playing is that it really shakes things up. I love fireball and lightning bolt as much as the next guy but hey change can be good. My only wish is that there could be a spell like darkbolt for shadow adept/wizards that tap the shadow weave could use as a kinda fireball like spell. I'll probably make up some spell and post it for consideration if it's powered correctly. Let me know if there is already something like that in the spell compedium as I do not own that book yet. :( Thanks every one for all the replies and advice. I appreciate the help. :bow:
ShadeMaster 02-25-06, 01:50 PM	Know how you were were talking about shadow weave fireball, I think of spells of not how they are written but how you want them to be. this works for me, just picture fireball in your mind now change the flames to shadows the spell name to darkflame, darkfire, or darkblast and change the type of damage to cold.
Telagaunt 02-25-06, 02:18 PM	shadow conjuration, greater shadow conjuration, shadow evocation, and greater shadow evocation are useful spells for mimicing 'attack' spells. Granted they are quasi-real but they mimic any evocation and conjuration spell up to 4th or 5th level, but targets have to make a Will save, or they can't even tell the difference and the spell deals damage/effect as normal. You can take a look at the specifics on the SRD or PHB. But they do come in handy. The Shadowcaster PrC in the Underdark sourcebook is designed to amplify these spells so that they are more 'real' (up to 80% real). Here are some more spells on WotC you might find useful: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cc/20011111e EDIT: One more thing to consider is, a Shadowmage is perfectly capable of casting a fireball, or lighting bolt as it's meant to and with the correct energy types, you get some penalties depending on certain spells, but... they hardly make a difference IMO once you reach a certain level. And you saying a caster level of 15, shouldn't cause any real problems.
createvmind 02-25-06, 05:07 PM	I enjoyed the Shadow stone novel and I definitely in my mind and from the book see the Shadow weave as something that Shar stumbled upon herself, augmented and eventually controlled. The main char in the novel was by no means a follower of Shar and was able to and continued to use both weave and SW magic.
Telagaunt 02-25-06, 06:49 PM	Well you dont need to be a follower of Shar to use the Shadow Weave, or be a shade for that matter either. And Aeron didn't completely use both Weaves, but it was the framework of the Shadow Weave we know, and it's explained that him using 'both' Weaves was kinda like the transition phase into the Shadow Weave. Even back then in the novel, it stated it was harder and harder for Aeron to 'grasp' the Weave (or 'light') strands.