The Time Skip [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Time Skip [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Duedaine
10-08-07, 06:21 PM I haven't got the materials yet, but In reading the orc king I'd noticed that the beginning is 6 generations in the future. Is this what it is? If not explain?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-08-07, 07:37 PM I haven't got the materials yet, but In reading the orc king I'd noticed that the beginning is 6 generations in the future. Is this what it is? If not explain?

The novel has it's prologue and epilogue set 100 years in the future for the in-story purpose of showing how the events in the novel might have affected the future.

Of course, it has out-of-story reasons for it as well: at the very least, it acted as a "teaser" for the 4E Realms, and it might (read that--might) be an indicator of when the 4E setting will be set.
MerrikCale
10-08-07, 09:10 PM Of course, it has out-of-story reasons for it as well: at the very least, it acted as a "teaser" for the 4E Realms, and it might (read that--might) be an indicator of when the 4E setting will be set.

I'm still holding out hope that they're not that dumb
Lord Karsus
10-09-07, 12:06 AM -I don't believe that the setting of the 4e Realms will be pushed up 100 years, especially since AGHotR ends in 1385. It's my opinion that 1385 or thereabouts will be the new campaign timeline.

-Bumping up the timeline at all is a bad move, if you ask me. But...
MarkusTay63
10-09-07, 12:19 AM They have repeatedly gone out of their way to point out that the Spellplague BEGINS in 1385 DR.

They have NEVER once corrected anyone who has posted that the timeline will be set a hundred years from now.

To me, THAT does not bode well. :noway:
Reneshat
10-09-07, 01:42 AM They have repeatedly gone out of their way to point out that the Spellplague BEGINS in 1385 DR.

They have NEVER once corrected anyone who has posted that the timeline will be set a hundred years from now.

To me, THAT does not bode well. :noway:

That bodes fine, if you don't mind playing 100 years in the future.
MarkusTay63
10-09-07, 01:54 AM That bodes fine, if you don't mind playing 100 years in the future.True.
Charles Phipps
10-09-07, 04:05 AM "Where have our characters been all this time?"

"Evermeet."

"What?"

"Yeah, there was a spell accident. Turns out that Khelben, Sylune, and all the other people we love were trapped in it. You too."

"But Luskan's gone!"

"Yeah, it's there too. Also Tilverton. Myrkul, Xvim, and Bhaal are there too."

"Sounds nice!"

"Yeah, I'd say Thay's there but watching it burn is very pleasant."
Fire_Wraith
10-09-07, 08:33 AM They've also never corrected anyone who said it starts 10 years in the future, in 1385 DR, either. The official answer from Rich, at present, is:

That's one of the things I can't talk about yet, sorry. It's not for me to reveal. You know what year the Grand History ends; beyond that, I can't really say much at all.

I promise I'll tell you as soon as I can.

So it will be set in 1385 DR or later, is what I read. The date of the Orc King's prologue is a reasonable guess, but it could certainly come anywhere in between those two dates, or even later.

Keep in mind, as well, that while various designers have suggested that we won't be able to convert our current characters, they've also said that rebuilding based on general concept works quite well. While I'm not going to take that as a "You can absolutely continue your current campaign if you really, really want to, it just takes work", it does seem to imply that the time jump may not be so severe as to warrant killing off everyone but the elves, or coming up with some sort of deus ex machina time jump to hurl the party into the future.

Of course, that's all pure conjecture, on my part. :D
MarkusTay63
10-09-07, 01:20 PM "Where have our characters been all this time?"

"Evermeet."

"What?"

"Yeah, there was a spell accident. Turns out that Khelben, Sylune, and all the other people we love were trapped in it. You too."

"But Luskan's gone!"

"Yeah, it's there too. Also Tilverton. Myrkul, Xvim, and Bhaal are there too."

"Sounds nice!"

"Yeah, I'd say Thay's there but watching it burn is very pleasant."Read the vingette for The Sundering in the GHotR VERY carefully -

Evermeet's very existance is being maintained by a concentration of the Weave. :eek:

The Weave goes away, and history 'snaps back', and all of those major changes to the planet just go away, restoring the original history that the Elves decided to modify.

If they stick to the canon in this MOST RECENT of sources, Evermeet cannot possibly survive without the concentration of the Weave that maintains it in Realmspace.

It will probably revert back to Arvandor where it came from.

In which case, I suppose everyone and everything could be there wheathering the storm. ;)
MarkusTay63
10-09-07, 01:26 PM They've also never corrected anyone who said it starts 10 years in the future, in 1385 DR, either. Actually, they have. What they have said, either at Gencon or immediately after, was that "they never said the new FRCS would be set in 1385 DR, that is just when the Spellplague begins".

Since we know the new FRCG wil be set AFTER the Spellplague, it has to be at the very least 1386 DR.

Considering the effects of the Spellplegue, and the time needed to develop the new magical traditions being discussed in 4e, I would say 1386 would be a ridiculous assumption. Even 1400 DR would be a bit of a stretch for the kinds of changes they are planning to the mechanics.

I have high hopes that it will be somewhat less then the century mark, but it also seems highly unlikely .
msatran
10-09-07, 02:15 PM It's going to be 1391, because that's when Baker's home game is set.
MarkusTay63
10-09-07, 03:13 PM It's going to be 1391, because that's when Baker's home game is set.You're kidding, right? :confused:

My own game is set in 1390 DR - I'm really getting tired of that guy peeping through my windows.... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus
10-09-07, 04:23 PM It's going to be 1391, because that's when Baker's home game is set.

-Where did you hear/read that?
Krash
10-09-07, 08:40 PM Read the vingette for The Sundering in the GHotR VERY carefully -

The vignette is not written from the perspective of the all-knowing, authoritative narrator. It may be right, wrong or somewhere in between.

-- George Krashos
MerrikCale
10-09-07, 10:05 PM -I don't believe that the setting of the 4e Realms will be pushed up 100 years, especially since AGHotR ends in 1385. It's my opinion that 1385 or thereabouts will be the new campaign timeline.

-Bumping up the timeline at all is a bad move, if you ask me. But...

First paragraph-I hope you're right. Second- you said it!
MarkusTay63
10-09-07, 10:13 PM The vignette is not written from the perspective of the all-knowing, authoritative narrator. It may be right, wrong or somewhere in between.Ahhh... Okay.

I was taking it as total truth, in which case I would be correct, eh? ;)
Fire_Wraith
10-10-07, 10:34 AM Actually, they have. What they have said, either at Gencon or immediately after, was that "they never said the new FRCS would be set in 1385 DR, that is just when the Spellplague begins".

Since we know the new FRCG wil be set AFTER the Spellplague, it has to be at the very least 1386 DR.

Considering the effects of the Spellplegue, and the time needed to develop the new magical traditions being discussed in 4e, I would say 1386 would be a ridiculous assumption. Even 1400 DR would be a bit of a stretch for the kinds of changes they are planning to the mechanics.

I have high hopes that it will be somewhat less then the century mark, but it also seems highly unlikely .

You make a good distinction, and one worth noting. Personally, I think that if they do go very far beyond 1385/1386, they'll likely be looking at a fairly large amount of continuity to have to skip over. This means ending most or all of the FR novel series that are currently ongoing, with little opportunity for sequels, since most heroes and villains would be old or dead, save for elves and any surviving Chosen.

One interesting parallel does come to mind, though, when considering timelines for the plague. The Black Death took place in Europe in the 1300s, specifically from 1347 to 1350. Although several outbreaks took place afterwards, the worst had passed after four years. Now, being a magical matter, timelines may vary... but given that most wizards would have some strong incentive to find solutions quickly, in the form of angry mobs at their door looking for revenge on the now-powerless wizard, I don't think we'd be looking at more than a year or two, if the Realms are to be left with any wizards at all. Thus, the late 1380s to early 1390s seems a perfectly reasonable timeframe to begin in.

This doesn't mean I'm happy with any of it, of course, merely trying to understand what's coming as best I can.
MarkusTay63
10-10-07, 10:46 AM I aree - the Spellplague SHOULD be over by 1390 DR.

However, we have the problem with the 4e rules to consider. The new magic system is based on long-standing 'magical traditions'. These kinds of traditions do not spring up over night. Even if mages started to follow different paths the day after the Spellplague starts, I would think that a full generation would be required to call something a 'tradition'. Thats why I said 1400 DR would be pushing it - 15 years would be like the bare minimum for plausibility.

The old classes will simply cease to exist -Elminster would be like a level 1 mage with tons of HP. :eek:
Ramenth
10-10-07, 11:55 AM From what I've heard, the 100 year thing was mainly done so that RA could carve out a nice chunk of the 4E world to write in, and not let anyone else do something he wouldnt like, such as drop a commet on the Silver Marches or something similar.

He's now established that they're doing well in 100 years in cannon. No one else can change that. Its actually a cunning ploy.
Duedaine
10-10-07, 02:05 PM In the Orc King, which may not be accurate, Obould VI is king. This means that it takes place 6 generations into the future, which is roughly 90 give or take a 10 or so.
Duedaine
10-10-07, 02:08 PM The old classes will simply cease to exist -Elminster would be like a level 1 mage with tons of HP. :eek:

Can you explain how Elminister will drop a billion levels?
MarkusTay63
10-10-07, 02:27 PM He has to, the classes he had levels in no longer exist. Mechanis-wise, his magic was entirely based on the Weave. Without it, he has to start at square one just like anyone else.

Unless they somehow allow him to keep his Silver Fire, in which case it would be like he has his own self-contained, portable Weave.
Lord Karsus
10-10-07, 02:34 PM Unless they somehow allow him to keep his Silver Fire, in which case it wuld like he has his own self-contained, portable Weave.

-Theoretically, no Mystra means no Silver Fire, either.

From what I've heard, the 100 year thing was mainly done so that RA could carve out a nice chunk of the 4E world to write in, and not let anyone else do something he wouldnt like, such as drop a commet on the Silver Marches or something similar.

-That's not true. You've been listening to MT too long! :P
MarkusTay63
10-10-07, 02:57 PM Thats how rumors spread, LK. If you keep saying them to everyone long enough, people start to believe them. :P

Besides, thats just the gut-feeling I get. The novels no longer hold much interest for me, because they are using them to move forward their own clandestine agenda. Most aren't fun - they just deliver catastrophies to us several times a year.

Also, when Mystra was 'grounded' during the ToT, I believe much of her power was stored in her chosen. That means Elminster and others may still have some of that for awhile after the SP. If so, they may be able to access their 3e magic for a time with Weave Mantles. I can see the other chosen sacrificing their power and themselves in 1425 DR in order to 'save the world' (stabilize magic), while El would be the only one left, and practically a demi-god because he would be the ONLY epic mage left.
Lord Karsus
10-10-07, 03:02 PM Thats how rumors spread, LK. If you keep saying them to everyone long enough, people start to believe them. :P

-If only ZSych was here. He was the master of going on and on about the tiniest little thing, and then developing insane conclusions based off of them.
MarkusTay63
10-10-07, 04:23 PM Are you calling me insane? :uh-huh:

:P

Because I'm MUCH crazier then that. :crazy:
Keahi19
10-10-07, 04:35 PM A time jump. THat doesn't sound good. A century would make it the 15th DR century, and that would mean lots more firearms. That might not be so bad. Of course I am a Gond fanatic so. *Shrugs*
Lord Karsus
10-11-07, 11:36 PM Are you calling me insane? :uh-huh:

:P

Because I'm MUCH crazier then that. :crazy:

-No, no I am not. Let me clarify. ZSych took the idea of Netherese mythallars, and quasimagical weapons, and then came to a conclusion that the Netherese were insanely rich businessmen and merchants.

-Say, MT, have you ever had a look at the Evermeet thread?
Keahi19
10-15-07, 02:52 PM Where is the Evermeet thread?
Lord Karsus
10-15-07, 07:06 PM -Heh, heh, heh...

-Are you sure you want to read it? I'll need to begin an Epic Summoning if you do.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Duedaine 10-08-07, 06:21 PM	I haven't got the materials yet, but In reading the orc king I'd noticed that the beginning is 6 generations in the future. Is this what it is? If not explain?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-08-07, 07:37 PM	I haven't got the materials yet, but In reading the orc king I'd noticed that the beginning is 6 generations in the future. Is this what it is? If not explain? The novel has it's prologue and epilogue set 100 years in the future for the in-story purpose of showing how the events in the novel might have affected the future. Of course, it has out-of-story reasons for it as well: at the very least, it acted as a "teaser" for the 4E Realms, and it might (read that--might) be an indicator of when the 4E setting will be set.
MerrikCale 10-08-07, 09:10 PM	Of course, it has out-of-story reasons for it as well: at the very least, it acted as a "teaser" for the 4E Realms, and it might (read that--might) be an indicator of when the 4E setting will be set. I'm still holding out hope that they're not that dumb
Lord Karsus 10-09-07, 12:06 AM	-I don't believe that the setting of the 4e Realms will be pushed up 100 years, especially since AGHotR ends in 1385. It's my opinion that 1385 or thereabouts will be the new campaign timeline. -Bumping up the timeline at all is a bad move, if you ask me. But...
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 12:19 AM	They have repeatedly gone out of their way to point out that the Spellplague BEGINS in 1385 DR. They have NEVER once corrected anyone who has posted that the timeline will be set a hundred years from now. To me, THAT does not bode well. :noway:
Reneshat 10-09-07, 01:42 AM	They have repeatedly gone out of their way to point out that the Spellplague BEGINS in 1385 DR. They have NEVER once corrected anyone who has posted that the timeline will be set a hundred years from now. To me, THAT does not bode well. :noway: That bodes fine, if you don't mind playing 100 years in the future.
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 01:54 AM	That bodes fine, if you don't mind playing 100 years in the future.True.
Charles Phipps 10-09-07, 04:05 AM	"Where have our characters been all this time?" "Evermeet." "What?" "Yeah, there was a spell accident. Turns out that Khelben, Sylune, and all the other people we love were trapped in it. You too." "But Luskan's gone!" "Yeah, it's there too. Also Tilverton. Myrkul, Xvim, and Bhaal are there too." "Sounds nice!" "Yeah, I'd say Thay's there but watching it burn is very pleasant."
Fire_Wraith 10-09-07, 08:33 AM	They've also never corrected anyone who said it starts 10 years in the future, in 1385 DR, either. The official answer from Rich, at present, is: That's one of the things I can't talk about yet, sorry. It's not for me to reveal. You know what year the Grand History ends; beyond that, I can't really say much at all. I promise I'll tell you as soon as I can. So it will be set in 1385 DR or later, is what I read. The date of the Orc King's prologue is a reasonable guess, but it could certainly come anywhere in between those two dates, or even later. Keep in mind, as well, that while various designers have suggested that we won't be able to convert our current characters, they've also said that rebuilding based on general concept works quite well. While I'm not going to take that as a "You can absolutely continue your current campaign if you really, really want to, it just takes work", it does seem to imply that the time jump may not be so severe as to warrant killing off everyone but the elves, or coming up with some sort of deus ex machina time jump to hurl the party into the future. Of course, that's all pure conjecture, on my part. :D
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 01:20 PM	"Where have our characters been all this time?" "Evermeet." "What?" "Yeah, there was a spell accident. Turns out that Khelben, Sylune, and all the other people we love were trapped in it. You too." "But Luskan's gone!" "Yeah, it's there too. Also Tilverton. Myrkul, Xvim, and Bhaal are there too." "Sounds nice!" "Yeah, I'd say Thay's there but watching it burn is very pleasant."Read the vingette for The Sundering in the GHotR VERY carefully - Evermeet's very existance is being maintained by a concentration of the Weave. :eek: The Weave goes away, and history 'snaps back', and all of those major changes to the planet just go away, restoring the original history that the Elves decided to modify. If they stick to the canon in this MOST RECENT of sources, Evermeet cannot possibly survive without the concentration of the Weave that maintains it in Realmspace. It will probably revert back to Arvandor where it came from. In which case, I suppose everyone and everything could be there wheathering the storm. ;)
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 01:26 PM	They've also never corrected anyone who said it starts 10 years in the future, in 1385 DR, either. Actually, they have. What they have said, either at Gencon or immediately after, was that "they never said the new FRCS would be set in 1385 DR, that is just when the Spellplague begins". Since we know the new FRCG wil be set AFTER the Spellplague, it has to be at the very least 1386 DR. Considering the effects of the Spellplegue, and the time needed to develop the new magical traditions being discussed in 4e, I would say 1386 would be a ridiculous assumption. Even 1400 DR would be a bit of a stretch for the kinds of changes they are planning to the mechanics. I have high hopes that it will be somewhat less then the century mark, but it also seems highly unlikely .
msatran 10-09-07, 02:15 PM	It's going to be 1391, because that's when Baker's home game is set.
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 03:13 PM	It's going to be 1391, because that's when Baker's home game is set.You're kidding, right? :confused: My own game is set in 1390 DR - I'm really getting tired of that guy peeping through my windows.... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 10-09-07, 04:23 PM	It's going to be 1391, because that's when Baker's home game is set. -Where did you hear/read that?
Krash 10-09-07, 08:40 PM	Read the vingette for The Sundering in the GHotR VERY carefully - The vignette is not written from the perspective of the all-knowing, authoritative narrator. It may be right, wrong or somewhere in between. -- George Krashos
MerrikCale 10-09-07, 10:05 PM	-I don't believe that the setting of the 4e Realms will be pushed up 100 years, especially since AGHotR ends in 1385. It's my opinion that 1385 or thereabouts will be the new campaign timeline. -Bumping up the timeline at all is a bad move, if you ask me. But... First paragraph-I hope you're right. Second- you said it!
MarkusTay63 10-09-07, 10:13 PM	The vignette is not written from the perspective of the all-knowing, authoritative narrator. It may be right, wrong or somewhere in between.Ahhh... Okay. I was taking it as total truth, in which case I would be correct, eh? ;)
Fire_Wraith 10-10-07, 10:34 AM	Actually, they have. What they have said, either at Gencon or immediately after, was that "they never said the new FRCS would be set in 1385 DR, that is just when the Spellplague begins". Since we know the new FRCG wil be set AFTER the Spellplague, it has to be at the very least 1386 DR. Considering the effects of the Spellplegue, and the time needed to develop the new magical traditions being discussed in 4e, I would say 1386 would be a ridiculous assumption. Even 1400 DR would be a bit of a stretch for the kinds of changes they are planning to the mechanics. I have high hopes that it will be somewhat less then the century mark, but it also seems highly unlikely . You make a good distinction, and one worth noting. Personally, I think that if they do go very far beyond 1385/1386, they'll likely be looking at a fairly large amount of continuity to have to skip over. This means ending most or all of the FR novel series that are currently ongoing, with little opportunity for sequels, since most heroes and villains would be old or dead, save for elves and any surviving Chosen. One interesting parallel does come to mind, though, when considering timelines for the plague. The Black Death took place in Europe in the 1300s, specifically from 1347 to 1350. Although several outbreaks took place afterwards, the worst had passed after four years. Now, being a magical matter, timelines may vary... but given that most wizards would have some strong incentive to find solutions quickly, in the form of angry mobs at their door looking for revenge on the now-powerless wizard, I don't think we'd be looking at more than a year or two, if the Realms are to be left with any wizards at all. Thus, the late 1380s to early 1390s seems a perfectly reasonable timeframe to begin in. This doesn't mean I'm happy with any of it, of course, merely trying to understand what's coming as best I can.
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 10:46 AM	I aree - the Spellplague SHOULD be over by 1390 DR. However, we have the problem with the 4e rules to consider. The new magic system is based on long-standing 'magical traditions'. These kinds of traditions do not spring up over night. Even if mages started to follow different paths the day after the Spellplague starts, I would think that a full generation would be required to call something a 'tradition'. Thats why I said 1400 DR would be pushing it - 15 years would be like the bare minimum for plausibility. The old classes will simply cease to exist -Elminster would be like a level 1 mage with tons of HP. :eek:
Ramenth 10-10-07, 11:55 AM	From what I've heard, the 100 year thing was mainly done so that RA could carve out a nice chunk of the 4E world to write in, and not let anyone else do something he wouldnt like, such as drop a commet on the Silver Marches or something similar. He's now established that they're doing well in 100 years in cannon. No one else can change that. Its actually a cunning ploy.
Duedaine 10-10-07, 02:05 PM	In the Orc King, which may not be accurate, Obould VI is king. This means that it takes place 6 generations into the future, which is roughly 90 give or take a 10 or so.
Duedaine 10-10-07, 02:08 PM	The old classes will simply cease to exist -Elminster would be like a level 1 mage with tons of HP. :eek: Can you explain how Elminister will drop a billion levels?
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 02:27 PM	He has to, the classes he had levels in no longer exist. Mechanis-wise, his magic was entirely based on the Weave. Without it, he has to start at square one just like anyone else. Unless they somehow allow him to keep his Silver Fire, in which case it would be like he has his own self-contained, portable Weave.
Lord Karsus 10-10-07, 02:34 PM	Unless they somehow allow him to keep his Silver Fire, in which case it wuld like he has his own self-contained, portable Weave. -Theoretically, no Mystra means no Silver Fire, either. From what I've heard, the 100 year thing was mainly done so that RA could carve out a nice chunk of the 4E world to write in, and not let anyone else do something he wouldnt like, such as drop a commet on the Silver Marches or something similar. -That's not true. You've been listening to MT too long! :P
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 02:57 PM	Thats how rumors spread, LK. If you keep saying them to everyone long enough, people start to believe them. :P Besides, thats just the gut-feeling I get. The novels no longer hold much interest for me, because they are using them to move forward their own clandestine agenda. Most aren't fun - they just deliver catastrophies to us several times a year. Also, when Mystra was 'grounded' during the ToT, I believe much of her power was stored in her chosen. That means Elminster and others may still have some of that for awhile after the SP. If so, they may be able to access their 3e magic for a time with Weave Mantles. I can see the other chosen sacrificing their power and themselves in 1425 DR in order to 'save the world' (stabilize magic), while El would be the only one left, and practically a demi-god because he would be the ONLY epic mage left.
Lord Karsus 10-10-07, 03:02 PM	Thats how rumors spread, LK. If you keep saying them to everyone long enough, people start to believe them. :P -If only ZSych was here. He was the master of going on and on about the tiniest little thing, and then developing insane conclusions based off of them.
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 04:23 PM	Are you calling me insane? :uh-huh: :P Because I'm MUCH crazier then that. :crazy:
Keahi19 10-10-07, 04:35 PM	A time jump. THat doesn't sound good. A century would make it the 15th DR century, and that would mean lots more firearms. That might not be so bad. Of course I am a Gond fanatic so. Shrugs
Lord Karsus 10-11-07, 11:36 PM	Are you calling me insane? :uh-huh: :P Because I'm MUCH crazier then that. :crazy: -No, no I am not. Let me clarify. ZSych took the idea of Netherese mythallars, and quasimagical weapons, and then came to a conclusion that the Netherese were insanely rich businessmen and merchants. -Say, MT, have you ever had a look at the Evermeet thread?
Keahi19 10-15-07, 02:52 PM	Where is the Evermeet thread?
Lord Karsus 10-15-07, 07:06 PM	-Heh, heh, heh... -Are you sure you want to read it? I'll need to begin an Epic Summoning if you do.