This board is too oppressive!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

This board is too oppressive!!! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Selgaunt
05-21-04, 01:38 PM We can't discuss novels, we can't even mention them. If we do the thread is closed down. If a conversation veers away (just a bit) from it's original topic, then it's the end of the world!!!

I've been to many different message boards over the past few years and none of them are as oppressive and tyrannical as this one!:mad: :thumbsdow :rant: :nonono:

Let the people say what they want(as long as they are respectful of others!!!!)
Dorlomin
05-21-04, 01:49 PM I have to agree. I've been a member here for awhile and I haven't been on in the last couple months but came back on eariler in the week to this???

Wotc doesn't want us to talk about novels? Ok fine, how about a reason for this change? (yes I read the so called CoC and it's not in there) You do also realize that people will just talk about them somewhere else if not here right? I personally enjoyed the Novels section.

I realize that Wotc wholly owns, operates, and pays for this forum, but it's the people that populate it that make it really what it is (both the customers and the employees of Wotc). If you want people to continue to frequent this forum, you might want to consider being a little more lax in the Fascist approach your CoC seems to be taking. This is after all just a message board, not the City of Shade.:angel:
Capn Charlie
05-21-04, 02:51 PM Well, you can start by reading the sticky posts at the top of each board, likeThis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243121) one.

Also, read the first link in that post.
Dorlomin
05-21-04, 03:17 PM Originally posted by Capn Charlie
Well, you can start by reading the sticky posts at the top of each board, likeThis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243121) one.

Also, read the first link in that post.

Maybe I wasn't clear when I said "(yes I read the so called CoC and it's not in there)". I meant I read those as well, and nowhere in those does it state why.

My beef isn't with them not allowing it, but rather that they never cite a reason for it anywhere. I can't be the first one to wonder why either can I?

I realize that this thread is in violation, all I'm asking is for a quantitative reason that this rule is in effect (in other words, why no more novels discussion, it seems stupid to me).
J. Grenemyer
05-21-04, 03:23 PM Hello,

Originally posted by Dorlomin
Maybe I wasn't clear when I said "(yes I read the so called CoC and it's not in there)". I meant I read those as well, and nowhere in those does it state why. <snip> I realize that this thread is in violation, all I'm asking is for a quantitative reason that this rule is in effect (in other words, why no more novels discussion, it seems stupid to me).

Not true.

Please take the time to read this official notice (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185204) before complaining.

:D

PS: If this still doesn't satisfy you, try PMing WizO_BigSis or any of the regulars that visit here frequently (such as myself of Kuje or The Simbul, etc...) for an explanation.
Dorlomin
05-21-04, 03:44 PM Originally posted by J. Grenemyer
Hello,

Not true.

Please take the time to read this official notice (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185204) before complaining.

:D

PS: If this still doesn't satisfy you, try PMing WizO_BigSis or any of the regulars that visit here frequently (such as myself of Kuje or The Simbul, etc...) for an explanation.

Yes I've read it, and read it again, so why??? Nowhere in it does it state WHY it is the way it is. (I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who's read it)
J. Grenemyer
05-21-04, 04:04 PM Originally posted by Dorlomin
Yes I've read it, and read it again, so why??? Nowhere in it does it state WHY it is the way it is. (I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who's read it)

Like I said, feel free to send a Private Message to BigSis, myself, etc...

:D
Dorlomin
05-21-04, 04:06 PM Originally posted by J. Grenemyer
Like I said, feel free to send a Private Message to BigSis, myself, etc...

:D

a PM? whats with all the secrecy?

:rolleyes:
Capn Charlie
05-21-04, 04:18 PM Why? Because that's the way it is. That is the policy handed down to the mods from those on high. They have to do what their bosses tell them.

The corporate folk saw a need to change the way things work, and like it or not, that isthe way things are now, and there is little the poor mods can do about it.

Part of that pronouncement was that discussion of said policy was not allowed as well, that is why there is need for "secrecy" as you put it.

I will say this though, the mods are just trying to do their jobs, and in BIg Sis' case at least, doing everything she can to do the right thing. So if you ever feel the need to target someone that is not guilty for the policy changes, target me instead of sis. Because my hands aren't tied by need to put food on the table, and I will fight back.
konzer
05-21-04, 04:25 PM I use to come here all the time just for the Novel section. What makes no sense other than not saying "WHY" is that its their own books! Its not like we want to talk about another publisher. I did email them and got a response but it made no sense at all. Email them and ask, you will get a response but no real answer.
aravilar_holistacia
05-21-04, 04:28 PM Originally posted by konzer
I use to come here all the time just for the Novel section. What makes no sense other than not saying "WHY" is that its their own books! Its not like we want to talk about another publisher. I did email them and got a response but it made no sense at all. Email them and ask, you will get a response but no real answer.

Thread reported and advised to an active moderator.
Dorlomin
05-21-04, 04:30 PM Originally posted by Capn Charlie
I will say this though, the mods are just trying to do their jobs, and in BIg Sis' case at least, doing everything she can to do the right thing. So if you ever feel the need to target someone that is not guilty for the policy changes, target me instead of sis. Because my hands aren't tied by need to put food on the table, and I will fight back.

My aren't we defensive. Don't get your panties in a bunch I'm not targeting you or anyone else, just asking what the story was.

I didn't realize I needed G14 classified access to this...

:rolleyes:
aravilar_holistacia
05-21-04, 04:38 PM Let me point out to you that the Novels rules were NOT made by the moderators. It was due to a series of problems that arised that the Novels boards were closed.

Originally posted by WotC_Mel, Site Administrator
I am going to make one final statement about this mess and then I am closing this thread. Why? Because the full scope of opinions has been expressed about the books dept decision, and now that some people have decided to infer that the forum was closed due to some shortcoming of moderation is simply BS.

I won't have BigSister sit here and have to swallow that inference when she, above anyone other person on these boards, has taken enough behind the scenes guff to make the Buddah scream. Things she has never publically mentioned due to her sense of professionalism and her honoring her NDA.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
it's my observation that such rules helped set a tone for the board that is not consistent with the policy makers' stated intent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I, and the Online Media dept. I work for, are the policy makers for the website and its community, I can say that this is not the case. The moderation of this forum was consistant with the overall policy and goals for the site.

To be clear, the community elements of this site--even as a corporate website that intends to promote its merchandise--has to date always understood that having message boards open to the public meant having a space available for debate. And the full spectrum of opinions implied by the word debate. Moderators are tasked with keeping that debate civil and making sure there are no ad hominem attacks. But not to censure opinion, negative or otherwise.

I hope that I do not work this job long enough to see that mandate change.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a nutshell, I think a big part of the problem was that we were all trying for an interactive forum, but did not anticipate what "interactive" would mean to many participants.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will agree with you there, Elaine. Not everyone did or does get what message boards are about.

To request that negative opinions about Wizards products not be allowed on this site is anathema to community. It demands that a forum become a uselessly over-bright commercial filled with satisfied testimonials rather than provoking dialogue of real feelings. And a useless forum is tanamount to not having a forum at all. The Books department understood that, and that is why they decided to not continue novel forums here.

The routes of expressing further feelings over this issue has been explained--please use them. Futher discussion on the topic will be closed.

Melanie Creel
Community Manager

You are not allowed to directly discuss the novels themselves, although references are fine.

You have your freedom of speech as defined in the Code of Conduct that you agreed to.

I think that quote will clear things up.
konzer
05-21-04, 04:40 PM Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia
Thread reported and advised to an active moderator.

LOL!!!!!
You are kidding right? Please!

Whats that going to do ban me? I don't care for this place anymore. I can't create another name? Will they ban my ip? I have DCHP. Ban my whole network? I don't get screwed, they screw others.

By the way, because of people like you is the reason they created this thread. All I did was give my opinion. I did not curse anyone out, I did not give out national security.

You need to grow up.
Dorlomin
05-21-04, 04:42 PM Yeah that gives the general idea of what went on. Thanks:tiphat:

I'll just add that I wasn't jabbing or attacking any of the moderators or anyone above them, or anyone at all. Just asking what the story was.
aravilar_holistacia
05-21-04, 04:46 PM Originally posted by konzer

By the way, because of people like you is the reason they created this thread. All I did was give my opinion. I did not curse anyone out, I did not give out national security.

You need to grow up.

Discussion of the novels decision is against the edict made by the Site Administrator. Threads that do so will be locked.

Flaming me is against the CoC.
konzer
05-21-04, 04:49 PM Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia
Discussion of the novels decision is against the edict made by the Site Administrator. Threads that do so will be locked.

Flaming me is against the CoC.

Oh boy, fine fine. How do I remove my account so I won't waste your or the admin's time?

This is the last time I come back here.
aravilar_holistacia
05-21-04, 04:52 PM Originally posted by Dorlomin
Yeah that gives the general idea of what went on. Thanks:tiphat:

No problem; it's good that there are people who want to know the whole story. :)
WizO_Fraxus
05-21-04, 05:08 PM Hello Forgotten Realms boards, nice colors you've got over here :).

It has been decided that discussion of the novel decision is not allowed. This decision was not made by the WizO's but has to be adhered to by them. You can get clarification of the rules on this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185204, and additional information on this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243121.

If you have a complaint to make about a specific WizO, the best course of action to take is to contact their lead. The lead for this section of the boards is Paradox: Paradox@wizo.wizards.com.

Since all the information about the decision and who to contact with any complaints is available on the other threads, I'm going to close this one now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Selgaunt 05-21-04, 01:38 PM	We can't discuss novels, we can't even mention them. If we do the thread is closed down. If a conversation veers away (just a bit) from it's original topic, then it's the end of the world!!! I've been to many different message boards over the past few years and none of them are as oppressive and tyrannical as this one!:mad: :thumbsdow :rant: :nonono: Let the people say what they want(as long as they are respectful of others!!!!)
Dorlomin 05-21-04, 01:49 PM	I have to agree. I've been a member here for awhile and I haven't been on in the last couple months but came back on eariler in the week to this??? Wotc doesn't want us to talk about novels? Ok fine, how about a reason for this change? (yes I read the so called CoC and it's not in there) You do also realize that people will just talk about them somewhere else if not here right? I personally enjoyed the Novels section. I realize that Wotc wholly owns, operates, and pays for this forum, but it's the people that populate it that make it really what it is (both the customers and the employees of Wotc). If you want people to continue to frequent this forum, you might want to consider being a little more lax in the Fascist approach your CoC seems to be taking. This is after all just a message board, not the City of Shade.:angel:
Capn Charlie 05-21-04, 02:51 PM	Well, you can start by reading the sticky posts at the top of each board, likeThis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243121) one. Also, read the first link in that post.
Dorlomin 05-21-04, 03:17 PM	Originally posted by Capn Charlie Well, you can start by reading the sticky posts at the top of each board, likeThis (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243121) one. Also, read the first link in that post. Maybe I wasn't clear when I said "(yes I read the so called CoC and it's not in there)". I meant I read those as well, and nowhere in those does it state why. My beef isn't with them not allowing it, but rather that they never cite a reason for it anywhere. I can't be the first one to wonder why either can I? I realize that this thread is in violation, all I'm asking is for a quantitative reason that this rule is in effect (in other words, why no more novels discussion, it seems stupid to me).
J. Grenemyer 05-21-04, 03:23 PM	Hello, Originally posted by Dorlomin Maybe I wasn't clear when I said "(yes I read the so called CoC and it's not in there)". I meant I read those as well, and nowhere in those does it state why. <snip> I realize that this thread is in violation, all I'm asking is for a quantitative reason that this rule is in effect (in other words, why no more novels discussion, it seems stupid to me). Not true. Please take the time to read this official notice (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185204) before complaining. :D PS: If this still doesn't satisfy you, try PMing WizO_BigSis or any of the regulars that visit here frequently (such as myself of Kuje or The Simbul, etc...) for an explanation.
Dorlomin 05-21-04, 03:44 PM	Originally posted by J. Grenemyer Hello, Not true. Please take the time to read this official notice (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185204) before complaining. :D PS: If this still doesn't satisfy you, try PMing WizO_BigSis or any of the regulars that visit here frequently (such as myself of Kuje or The Simbul, etc...) for an explanation. Yes I've read it, and read it again, so why??? Nowhere in it does it state WHY it is the way it is. (I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who's read it)
J. Grenemyer 05-21-04, 04:04 PM	Originally posted by Dorlomin Yes I've read it, and read it again, so why??? Nowhere in it does it state WHY it is the way it is. (I'm beginning to think I'm the only one who's read it) Like I said, feel free to send a Private Message to BigSis, myself, etc... :D
Dorlomin 05-21-04, 04:06 PM	Originally posted by J. Grenemyer Like I said, feel free to send a Private Message to BigSis, myself, etc... :D a PM? whats with all the secrecy? :rolleyes:
Capn Charlie 05-21-04, 04:18 PM	Why? Because that's the way it is. That is the policy handed down to the mods from those on high. They have to do what their bosses tell them. The corporate folk saw a need to change the way things work, and like it or not, that isthe way things are now, and there is little the poor mods can do about it. Part of that pronouncement was that discussion of said policy was not allowed as well, that is why there is need for "secrecy" as you put it. I will say this though, the mods are just trying to do their jobs, and in BIg Sis' case at least, doing everything she can to do the right thing. So if you ever feel the need to target someone that is not guilty for the policy changes, target me instead of sis. Because my hands aren't tied by need to put food on the table, and I will fight back.
konzer 05-21-04, 04:25 PM	I use to come here all the time just for the Novel section. What makes no sense other than not saying "WHY" is that its their own books! Its not like we want to talk about another publisher. I did email them and got a response but it made no sense at all. Email them and ask, you will get a response but no real answer.
aravilar_holistacia 05-21-04, 04:28 PM	Originally posted by konzer I use to come here all the time just for the Novel section. What makes no sense other than not saying "WHY" is that its their own books! Its not like we want to talk about another publisher. I did email them and got a response but it made no sense at all. Email them and ask, you will get a response but no real answer. Thread reported and advised to an active moderator.
Dorlomin 05-21-04, 04:30 PM	Originally posted by Capn Charlie I will say this though, the mods are just trying to do their jobs, and in BIg Sis' case at least, doing everything she can to do the right thing. So if you ever feel the need to target someone that is not guilty for the policy changes, target me instead of sis. Because my hands aren't tied by need to put food on the table, and I will fight back. My aren't we defensive. Don't get your panties in a bunch I'm not targeting you or anyone else, just asking what the story was. I didn't realize I needed G14 classified access to this... :rolleyes:
aravilar_holistacia 05-21-04, 04:38 PM	Let me point out to you that the Novels rules were NOT made by the moderators. It was due to a series of problems that arised that the Novels boards were closed. Originally posted by WotC_Mel, Site Administrator I am going to make one final statement about this mess and then I am closing this thread. Why? Because the full scope of opinions has been expressed about the books dept decision, and now that some people have decided to infer that the forum was closed due to some shortcoming of moderation is simply BS. I won't have BigSister sit here and have to swallow that inference when she, above anyone other person on these boards, has taken enough behind the scenes guff to make the Buddah scream. Things she has never publically mentioned due to her sense of professionalism and her honoring her NDA. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by ElaineCunningham it's my observation that such rules helped set a tone for the board that is not consistent with the policy makers' stated intent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since I, and the Online Media dept. I work for, are the policy makers for the website and its community, I can say that this is not the case. The moderation of this forum was consistant with the overall policy and goals for the site. To be clear, the community elements of this site--even as a corporate website that intends to promote its merchandise--has to date always understood that having message boards open to the public meant having a space available for debate. And the full spectrum of opinions implied by the word debate. Moderators are tasked with keeping that debate civil and making sure there are no ad hominem attacks. But not to censure opinion, negative or otherwise. I hope that I do not work this job long enough to see that mandate change. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In a nutshell, I think a big part of the problem was that we were all trying for an interactive forum, but did not anticipate what "interactive" would mean to many participants. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I will agree with you there, Elaine. Not everyone did or does get what message boards are about. To request that negative opinions about Wizards products not be allowed on this site is anathema to community. It demands that a forum become a uselessly over-bright commercial filled with satisfied testimonials rather than provoking dialogue of real feelings. And a useless forum is tanamount to not having a forum at all. The Books department understood that, and that is why they decided to not continue novel forums here. The routes of expressing further feelings over this issue has been explained--please use them. Futher discussion on the topic will be closed. Melanie Creel Community Manager You are not allowed to directly discuss the novels themselves, although references are fine. You have your freedom of speech as defined in the Code of Conduct that you agreed to. I think that quote will clear things up.
konzer 05-21-04, 04:40 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Thread reported and advised to an active moderator. LOL!!!!! You are kidding right? Please! Whats that going to do ban me? I don't care for this place anymore. I can't create another name? Will they ban my ip? I have DCHP. Ban my whole network? I don't get screwed, they screw others. By the way, because of people like you is the reason they created this thread. All I did was give my opinion. I did not curse anyone out, I did not give out national security. You need to grow up.
Dorlomin 05-21-04, 04:42 PM	Yeah that gives the general idea of what went on. Thanks:tiphat: I'll just add that I wasn't jabbing or attacking any of the moderators or anyone above them, or anyone at all. Just asking what the story was.
aravilar_holistacia 05-21-04, 04:46 PM	Originally posted by konzer By the way, because of people like you is the reason they created this thread. All I did was give my opinion. I did not curse anyone out, I did not give out national security. You need to grow up. Discussion of the novels decision is against the edict made by the Site Administrator. Threads that do so will be locked. Flaming me is against the CoC.
konzer 05-21-04, 04:49 PM	Originally posted by aravilar_holistacia Discussion of the novels decision is against the edict made by the Site Administrator. Threads that do so will be locked. Flaming me is against the CoC. Oh boy, fine fine. How do I remove my account so I won't waste your or the admin's time? This is the last time I come back here.
aravilar_holistacia 05-21-04, 04:52 PM	Originally posted by Dorlomin Yeah that gives the general idea of what went on. Thanks:tiphat: No problem; it's good that there are people who want to know the whole story. :)
WizO_Fraxus 05-21-04, 05:08 PM	Hello Forgotten Realms boards, nice colors you've got over here :). It has been decided that discussion of the novel decision is not allowed. This decision was not made by the WizO's but has to be adhered to by them. You can get clarification of the rules on this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185204, and additional information on this thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243121. If you have a complaint to make about a specific WizO, the best course of action to take is to contact their lead. The lead for this section of the boards is Paradox: Paradox@wizo.wizards.com. Since all the information about the decision and who to contact with any complaints is available on the other threads, I'm going to close this one now.