Thorass, Espruar, Dethek [Archive] - Wizards Community

Thorass, Espruar, Dethek [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
druid berrymore
02-07-04, 04:36 PM What the #&!) happened to the written languages in the 3rd edition? I had the old books, and learned how to read and write the lettters of Thorass. So, when I opened the 3rd edition book up to the language section I almost shot myself. Not only did they change the languages, but in the case of Thorass, they seem to have shifted half the letters over one space. So now all the letters I memorized are one letter off. Talk about confusing. Plus, there aren't abcdef guides. I would take it to mean that since there are as many letters there as in the english alphabet, then Thoass should correspond directly to the english alphabet. But with all the shifting of letters, as I mentioned, I'm a little confused. Someone please tell me what is going on here? Why didn't they just put abcdef guides. It would make my life, and the lives of others who know the old languages, a lot easier. Wizards- where's the love for the people who have been around for a while, and really love FR?
Someone?
druid berrymore
02-07-04, 08:44 PM Someone....please?
LupinKnight
02-07-04, 10:29 PM I'd assume it is an odd WotC 'flavor thing'. Half of their book illustrations look like notes scrawled in a 7th graders notebook. Apparently, they are trying to make it look like some sort of ancient wall writings.

I'm obviously not sure about this. Although, the 3rd edition FRs seem very much lacking compared to the golden age of second edition.
FineasBoggs
02-08-04, 01:49 PM All you are worried about was Dethek? What about the entirely NEW Espruar alphabet???

http://webpages.charter.net/acamphuysen/manshoon_mage_sigil.gif
druid berrymore
02-08-04, 01:59 PM No, I'm not worried about dethek. Dethek is the same? It's Thorass. Yeah, Espraur changed too, but at least they gave an English guide to help us out. Thorass is the one that is so confusing.
ender
02-11-04, 06:07 AM Actually I think the Espruar is a vast improvement. The old letters were silly, nonfunctional and in my mind not at all like the clean grace of elven style.

It does help, though, that Espruar has an alphabet guide, whereas the others do not.

Do you actually use the Thorass alphabet, druid? I tried handing a thorass inscription to my players, once, and they all looked at me like I was insane. Haven't tried it since, although I love the flavor of the alphabets.
Wooly Rupert
02-11-04, 11:33 AM I actually have the Espruar, Dethek, and Thorass fonts on my computer... I've no idea where I found them, though.
druid berrymore
02-11-04, 12:40 PM I am the knid of DM that likes to imerse my players as much as I can with visual aids, voices, and whatever. I'm an artist during the day, so I give them a lot of sketches, maps, and old crumbling letters.
I'm in the process of learning the Dethek script right now. I learn them so that when I write out letters for the group it goes by quickly. Plus it adds to the believability if the DM doesn't have to go to a book to find out what the third letter of a certain language is. If I seem like I am describing something I know, rather than reading from a book or making it up, that's better for me. My players are smart. They know when I make facts up on the spot. "What is his name?............It is Wood.....Woody......Yes, Woody Floorhousen". I try to keep that to a minimum.
I do agree. The languages are improvements upon the former versions, but how do you tell your players? "Okay, guys. You know that ancient script that you have become oh so familiar with over the last decade...it changed". I guess I could make a whole adventure for them to do with the changing of Espraur and Thorass.....I think I will be sending them back to Netheril soon. Or wait. Where would the best place and time be for an adventure about changing scripts?
ender
02-11-04, 04:06 PM It doesn't necessarily have to be a retroactive change, if you don't want it to. There are plenty of examples in modern history where a government changed the alphabet it used by fiat. Maybe that in itself could be part of the story with your players: there's some jerk in Evermeet who convinced Amlaruil to change the entire Espruar alphabet, and now elves all over the Realms are having to relearn to read their own language. Speaking beautifully, of course, but pausing while writing... "Mmm, what is that stupid letter again?"

Or you could have one of the big influential libraries (Candlekeep, Leaves of Learning, Silverymoon, etc) simply decide that they are going to reorganize Thorass for ease of scribing.

Then again, it could always be some kind of weird nerdy adventure... adventurers investigating languages rather than old ruins? That's awesome! :) I recall reading in Faiths and Pantheons (p. 54) that Leira wove a massive spell that changed tiny bits of existing texts, planning that one day they would all be combined to reveal that the Great Truth of Existence is really a lie, and therefore end all of creation. Maybe the new alphabets could actually be part of this old Leirist plot, or maybe a continuation thereof by Cyric.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
druid berrymore 02-07-04, 04:36 PM	What the #&!) happened to the written languages in the 3rd edition? I had the old books, and learned how to read and write the lettters of Thorass. So, when I opened the 3rd edition book up to the language section I almost shot myself. Not only did they change the languages, but in the case of Thorass, they seem to have shifted half the letters over one space. So now all the letters I memorized are one letter off. Talk about confusing. Plus, there aren't abcdef guides. I would take it to mean that since there are as many letters there as in the english alphabet, then Thoass should correspond directly to the english alphabet. But with all the shifting of letters, as I mentioned, I'm a little confused. Someone please tell me what is going on here? Why didn't they just put abcdef guides. It would make my life, and the lives of others who know the old languages, a lot easier. Wizards- where's the love for the people who have been around for a while, and really love FR? Someone?
druid berrymore 02-07-04, 08:44 PM	Someone....please?
LupinKnight 02-07-04, 10:29 PM	I'd assume it is an odd WotC 'flavor thing'. Half of their book illustrations look like notes scrawled in a 7th graders notebook. Apparently, they are trying to make it look like some sort of ancient wall writings. I'm obviously not sure about this. Although, the 3rd edition FRs seem very much lacking compared to the golden age of second edition.
FineasBoggs 02-08-04, 01:49 PM	All you are worried about was Dethek? What about the entirely NEW Espruar alphabet??? http://webpages.charter.net/acamphuysen/manshoon_mage_sigil.gif
druid berrymore 02-08-04, 01:59 PM	No, I'm not worried about dethek. Dethek is the same? It's Thorass. Yeah, Espraur changed too, but at least they gave an English guide to help us out. Thorass is the one that is so confusing.
ender 02-11-04, 06:07 AM	Actually I think the Espruar is a vast improvement. The old letters were silly, nonfunctional and in my mind not at all like the clean grace of elven style. It does help, though, that Espruar has an alphabet guide, whereas the others do not. Do you actually use the Thorass alphabet, druid? I tried handing a thorass inscription to my players, once, and they all looked at me like I was insane. Haven't tried it since, although I love the flavor of the alphabets.
Wooly Rupert 02-11-04, 11:33 AM	I actually have the Espruar, Dethek, and Thorass fonts on my computer... I've no idea where I found them, though.
druid berrymore 02-11-04, 12:40 PM	I am the knid of DM that likes to imerse my players as much as I can with visual aids, voices, and whatever. I'm an artist during the day, so I give them a lot of sketches, maps, and old crumbling letters. I'm in the process of learning the Dethek script right now. I learn them so that when I write out letters for the group it goes by quickly. Plus it adds to the believability if the DM doesn't have to go to a book to find out what the third letter of a certain language is. If I seem like I am describing something I know, rather than reading from a book or making it up, that's better for me. My players are smart. They know when I make facts up on the spot. "What is his name?............It is Wood.....Woody......Yes, Woody Floorhousen". I try to keep that to a minimum. I do agree. The languages are improvements upon the former versions, but how do you tell your players? "Okay, guys. You know that ancient script that you have become oh so familiar with over the last decade...it changed". I guess I could make a whole adventure for them to do with the changing of Espraur and Thorass.....I think I will be sending them back to Netheril soon. Or wait. Where would the best place and time be for an adventure about changing scripts?
ender 02-11-04, 04:06 PM	It doesn't necessarily have to be a retroactive change, if you don't want it to. There are plenty of examples in modern history where a government changed the alphabet it used by fiat. Maybe that in itself could be part of the story with your players: there's some jerk in Evermeet who convinced Amlaruil to change the entire Espruar alphabet, and now elves all over the Realms are having to relearn to read their own language. Speaking beautifully, of course, but pausing while writing... "Mmm, what is that stupid letter again?" Or you could have one of the big influential libraries (Candlekeep, Leaves of Learning, Silverymoon, etc) simply decide that they are going to reorganize Thorass for ease of scribing. Then again, it could always be some kind of weird nerdy adventure... adventurers investigating languages rather than old ruins? That's awesome! :) I recall reading in Faiths and Pantheons (p. 54) that Leira wove a massive spell that changed tiny bits of existing texts, planning that one day they would all be combined to reveal that the Great Truth of Existence is really a lie, and therefore end all of creation. Maybe the new alphabets could actually be part of this old Leirist plot, or maybe a continuation thereof by Cyric.