Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BrianCritchley 06-17-05, 08:40 PM	having just got the waterdeep SB I must say I am VERY impressed, finally a book that is nice and fluffly, (of late WOTC was putting a bit too much focus on rules and the fluff was suffering nice to see this trend ended). IMHO the waterdeep SB is easily the best book WOTC has put out for FR D&D 3.5. I highly like it.
BladeDrinker 06-17-05, 09:45 PM	having just got the waterdeep SB I must say I am VERY impressed, finally a book that is nice and fluffly, (of late WOTC was putting a bit too much focus on rules and the fluff was suffering nice to see this trend ended). IMHO the waterdeep SB is easily the best book WOTC has put out for FR D&D 3.5. I highly like it. Do you by chance know if the fluff covers similar material as 2E's Waterdeep?
BrianCritchley 06-17-05, 10:15 PM	I belive it does. however it also covers lots of new material. as well as updates the info
Pystian 06-17-05, 11:34 PM	I really like it when crunch backs up fluff, which I think Waterdeep does well. Favored in Guild, for instance, strongly encourages involvement in the different organizations of Waterdeep. Hand of Tyr's mechanics are very clearly based off the beliefs of Tyr's church. Very cool. Because it's such fluffy crunch, I actually would have liked to see more of it. There really aren't that many feats or prestige classes. I just got mine this afternoon and haven't finished reading it all, but I am most definitely pleased thus far.
BladeDrinker 06-18-05, 12:38 AM	I belive it does. however it also covers lots of new material. as well as updates the info Great!
Meta_FR_DM 06-18-05, 04:52 AM	I'm still reading my copy, but I must say I'm impressed. I was very happy to see several pages devoted to maps, street names and building locations. The Sewer Maps, monsters, magic items and descriptions were all solid. I think Wizards did about the best job they could do distilling pages of lore (and lore new to the setting after the various Waterdeep-based novels were printed) and tons of map information through the practical constraints of a hardback sourcebook. Dave -it's worth the money for DM's to buy- M.
BrianCritchley 06-18-05, 07:33 PM	and it's worth the money for a player to buy if your PC comes from water deep and you want more info
Yokinobu 06-19-05, 02:25 AM	I'm kinda urked that my local comic shop which usually gets FR products before books stores around here, still hasn't even heard of this book. Thankfully however, Champions of Ruin humbled me in a way, and I've had alot more patience waiting than I usually have been known for. And I had no doubt City of Splendors was going to be a good one. I said before that the fact that Eric Boyd was on this one was a good enough assurance of it's quality and depth.
memorax 06-19-05, 09:50 AM	I will agree with about the content. It is pretty good. Except I was dissapointed that they had no detechable map of Waterdeep in the back of the book. To get a full map requires me to photocopy all the sections. Plus the binding on my book is horrible.
Bloodtide_the_Red 06-19-05, 09:22 PM	Over all, it was a great book. They did have a huge amount of information to cram into the hardcover. Most of the information is the basic stuff about the city, and that's saying a lot. However, the book is lacking a lot of fluff. Waterdeep is one of the best detailed places in the Realms, but you would hardly know it from this book. It only lists a hand full of noble familes, and the rest are just left as names. The same is true with locations. In the ward listing you can read the names of shops, taverns and such.......but no information about them, other then their location. Though I guess all this fluff would have taken up way too much space........ BT
warlockco 06-19-05, 10:20 PM	I will agree with about the content. It is pretty good. Except I was dissapointed that they had no detechable map of Waterdeep in the back of the book. To get a full map requires me to photocopy all the sections. Plus the binding on my book is horrible. Hmm, no problems with the binding on mine. Detachable foldout maps would have been nice. Biggest thing I miss though is an Index.
msatran 06-19-05, 11:03 PM	The fact that 55 noble families are missing. I still go back to my old sourcebooks to have to reference that, and it's really grating on me. (Hint for Web Enhancement, O, Wizards!)
BrianCritchley 06-19-05, 11:34 PM	well can't inc,ujde EVERYTHING. still pretty solid book
Bocklin 06-20-05, 08:12 AM	The fact that 55 noble families are missing. I still go back to my old sourcebooks to have to reference that, and it's really grating on me. (Hint for Web Enhancement, O, Wizards!) From the appendix written by Eric for Dungeon Magazine 124 (about how to incorporate the new Adventure Path in the Realms), it seems that the Web Enhancement will contain some kind of map of the region around Waterdeep. You can check that from their Dungeon #124 Online Supplement, it is there: http://paizo.com/dungeon/news#v5748eaic9jyk Check for the pages 12 and 13. Bocklin, whose copy of CoSW has just shipped and cannot wait for it to arrive
ericlboyd 06-20-05, 08:48 AM	The fact that 55 noble families are missing. I still go back to my old sourcebooks to have to reference that, and it's really grating on me. (Hint for Web Enhancement, O, Wizards!) Implicitly they are all listed if you look in the list of villas in the sourcebook. There may (as in, it was in my turnover draft, but I haven't seen the final version yet) be a list of noble families in the web enhancement. --Eric
memorax 06-21-05, 07:23 AM	Hmm, no problems with the binding on mine. Detachable foldout maps would have been nice. Biggest thing I miss though is an Index. I should have been more specific. The binding on mine was so tight I was unable to lay the book flat on a surface. Take your Serpent Kingdom books and lay it flat. Then try and do the same with the Waterdeep book. You can but it feels like the spine on the Waterdeep book is going to break. Mine was not an isloated copy either. The same can be said of the Lords of Madness book. I agree having an index would have been nice.
Bocklin 06-21-05, 07:51 AM	(post deleted because I doubted of its usefulness)
Kuje31 06-21-05, 11:25 AM	I should have been more specific. The binding on mine was so tight I was unable to lay the book flat on a surface. Take your Serpent Kingdom books and lay it flat. Then try and do the same with the Waterdeep book. You can but it feels like the spine on the Waterdeep book is going to break. Mine was not an isloated copy either. The same can be said of the Lords of Madness book. Mines the same way. :)
Demetrios 06-21-05, 05:34 PM	Hey Eric, I noticed that on page 108, you had an aboleth NPC in Skullport listed as a cleric of Piscaethces the Blood Queen. Now I suspect that as the premiere deity guy for the Realms, you purposely snuck one of the gods not mentioned in F&P back into Realms canon, but unfortunately that means there is no information on such important things like favored weapons or what domains the goddess grants. Granted, Piscaethces is mentioned in Lords of Madness, but only as a powerful being and not a goddess, so that sort of information isn't in that book either...
Demetrios 06-21-05, 05:36 PM	I should have been more specific. The binding on mine was so tight I was unable to lay the book flat on a surface. Take your Serpent Kingdom books and lay it flat. Then try and do the same with the Waterdeep book. You can but it feels like the spine on the Waterdeep book is going to break. Mine was not an isloated copy either. The same can be said of the Lords of Madness book. I agree having an index would have been nice. Give it a few days. As long as you aren't rough with it, it will get to the point where it lays flat (mine did anyway). If you think about it, it probably means that the binding is actually stronger than usual.
Yokinobu 06-23-05, 05:29 AM	It still hasn't arrived where I live, and I'm about to explode. Can someone tell me what the Prestige Classes are, and the direction of them(comments, comparisons ect.)? It's hard to discern from the art gallery which ones represent a prestige class, and I love PrCs. I'm not asking anybody to break any rules or anything, really vague answers will do. Nobody has been mentoning them, so I'm kinda worried that they aren't all that great.
CuttinCurt 06-23-05, 11:33 AM	I do not have this book, but am wondering, as I was a player in numerous Waterdeep campaigns... is there information on the ElfSong (elftree) inn, just as there was in the 2E stuff. Let me know as I do want this book and would love to hear if that refuge of elven flavor is richly described as one of the major places waterdeep has to offer.
Kuje31 06-23-05, 11:42 AM	I do not have this book, but am wondering, as I was a player in numerous Waterdeep campaigns... is there information on the ElfSong (elftree) inn, just as there was in the 2E stuff. Let me know as I do want this book and would love to hear if that refuge of elven flavor is richly described as one of the major places waterdeep has to offer. I don't see any detailed text about it. :)
Kuje31 06-23-05, 11:48 AM	It still hasn't arrived where I live, and I'm about to explode. Can someone tell me what the Prestige Classes are, and the direction of them(comments, comparisons ect.)? It's hard to discern from the art gallery which ones represent a prestige class, and I love PrCs. I'm not asking anybody to break any rules or anything, really vague answers will do. Nobody has been mentoning them, so I'm kinda worried that they aren't all that great. Gray Hand Enforcer, formerly known as Force Gray. This prestige class is open to members of the Gray Hands. Knights of the Blue Moon. This group battles against Shar and her clergy. Moonstar Agent. A member of the Moonstars, if you are a ex harper you don't lose your harper abilities but you can't advance in that class since you are no longer a Harper. Sun Soul Monk. And that's it. :)
Yokinobu 06-23-05, 01:49 PM	Awesome! I had always hoped for a Moonstar PrC, and now I finally have one. I assume Force Gray is a group that promotes neutrality? Well, that's what I gather from those battling the glabrezu in the art section, and their name leaves me wondering. Anyway, thanks Kuje.
Kuje31 06-23-05, 02:18 PM	Awesome! I had always hoped for a Moonstar PrC, and now I finally have one. I assume Force Gray is a group that promotes neutrality? Well, that's what I gather from those battling the glabrezu in the art section, and their name leaves me wondering. Anyway, thanks Kuje. Force Gray was a group who defended Waterdeep that works with the Lords and some of thier allies.
Harald 06-23-05, 04:09 PM	Moonstar Agent. A member of the Moonstars, if you are a ex harper you don't lose your harper abilities but you can't advance in that class since you are no longer a Harper. Who are these Moonstars?
Kuje31 06-23-05, 04:43 PM	Who are these Moonstars? A group that Khelben created for a purpose that we still don't know the reason for. Something to do with a evil that was going to return to Faerun. It was all detailed in 2e's Cloak & Dagger, the last FR sourcebook of that ruleset.
bobsan 06-23-05, 06:01 PM	Well, I recently got my hands on the new Waterdeep book and I must say, it's both a great job and a little lacking. I love the 2nd Ed box set for Waterdeep. A 5 out of 5 IMO. The fluff in that book is overwhelming and great. One of my favorite sets. Plus, the maps provided with it are beautifully detailed. Even the close up maps of the Adventurer's Quarters is great. Now, looking at the 3rd Ed book, the layout is great as is the new information. However, it feels lacking in the fluff. To me, it feels like a great update to the 2nd Ed boxset. Like a rules/setting update. But, as a book on it's own, is only a 3 out of 5 What disappointed me was the lack of detail the Box Set provided about the city as well as the maps. I was hoping the maps of the city would be fold out like the box set's maps. While the detail on the pages for the mpas is nothing to squelch at, it's still a little disappointing they went that route with them. Just my Opinion. Other than that, I recommend the book as either a suppliment to the box or, if you don't have the box, go find it as well as get this book.
TomCosta 06-24-05, 02:47 PM	It's my understanding the goal of this book was not the impossbile task of reprinting all the Realms lore on Waterdeep out there, but to instead to do two primary things. First, present a very practical game-oriented view of the city filled with information on who sells what, who trains characters, where you can find out information, adventure hooks, and the like -- things that haven't really been touched on that cohesively in the past. The goal here was to present enough new material to players who have all the old Waterdeep products without reprinting it all, while also giving enough rehash of past products to make it very usable to new gamers who know next to nothing about Waterdeep. Second, to update the city based on all the other published lore out there -- particularly novels and the old comic books, but also minor tidbits from Dragon Magazine and other game books. A lot of the latter is hard to notice, but is there for every fanboy who cares to look. Eric did an enormous amount of research for this. The maps thing seems the new format of things. Fortunately for older gamers, they have the maps in the original FR1, Volo's Guide, City of Splendors box set, and of course, the mega City System maps.
BrianCritchley 06-25-05, 01:34 AM	Well, I recently got my hands on the new Waterdeep book and I must say, it's both a great job and a little lacking. I love the 2nd Ed box set for Waterdeep. A 5 out of 5 IMO. The fluff in that book is overwhelming and great. One of my favorite sets. Plus, the maps provided with it are beautifully detailed. Even the close up maps of the Adventurer's Quarters is great. Now, looking at the 3rd Ed book, the layout is great as is the new information. However, it feels lacking in the fluff. To me, it feels like a great update to the 2nd Ed boxset. Like a rules/setting update. But, as a book on it's own, is only a 3 out of 5 What disappointed me was the lack of detail the Box Set provided about the city as well as the maps. I was hoping the maps of the city would be fold out like the box set's maps. While the detail on the pages for the mpas is nothing to squelch at, it's still a little disappointing they went that route with them. Just my Opinion. Other than that, I recommend the book as either a suppliment to the box or, if you don't have the box, go find it as well as get this book. kinda unfair to compare a single book to a boxed set doncha think?
bobsan 06-25-05, 12:06 PM	kinda unfair to compare a single book to a boxed set doncha think? Not really, Now, I'm not going to claim I know what sort of guidelines and restrictions go into producing these books. Because I don't. So my opinion may not mean a whole lot since it's more of a personal preference. But looking at what was presented in the new book in comparison to the information from the box set, I beleive more could have been done with it. Compare the Core Forgotten Realms book with the new Waterdeep book. Core FR Book 320 Page count Full color Detachable foldout map $39.99 Waterdeep Book 157 Page count Full Color No detachable Map $29.99 So, for a mere $10 more in cost to the consumer (of course, as I said I'm not sure about production costs or anything of the like - I'm sure that has something to do with it), you get twice the page count AND a fully detchable map. While the Waterdeep book is only half the pages with maps printed IN the book. Also, how much of that $29.99 is for the color? The old box set was $25.00 and no color, yet presents a bit more information than the book (spread out over 4 books). Plus it comes with not 1 but 6! maps. In my opinion, the box set is, by far, superior in it's presentation of Waterdeep than the book is. And, Waterdeep is what pulled me into the Realms to begin with. It was the first FR product I ever had and I loved it. So it was a little disappointing to see it represented as it is now. However, that's not to say I hate the new Watderdeep book. Not at all. I just feel it makes a better timeline/3.5 update sourcebook than a full blown representation of the City of Splendors. (And again, just to reiterate and avoid any arguments, it's just MY opinion. Nothing more. ^_^ ) And I still recommend it to every FR fan out there. Though, I'd also add that if they can find the Box set, grab that as well. Plus Volo's Guide to Waterdeep if you can (Though I still am missing that book :weep: )
GothicDan 06-25-05, 07:39 PM	Having been the head Editor of my high school yearbook, I can say that printing color gets -very- expensive in hardbound books, especially with the quality presented in most of the 3.5 FR books.
Arwyn_Severisk 06-25-05, 07:42 PM	One i absolutely love the Waterdeep sourcebook but one thing that continues to annoy me is when they mention a specific magic item or artifact and then not give it a right up in the magic items section either leaving it out or not updating it to the 3.5 rules because they usually change its stats from the 2nd edition like how they mention andrathaths mask and aghairons supreme cloak or whatever we get hooked with no reward unless their releasing a magic items sourcebook for Faerun anytime soon we have no 3.5 to go by and otherwise we just create a version areselves but lack anything to really go by.
GothicDan 06-25-05, 07:48 PM	Well, the fact that there are 2E supplements that detail such items means that you indeed do have a base to work off of. By leaving the stats out of Waterdeep, they probably saved a good 5 or more pages to introduce or detail completely new parts of Waterdeep that have not been printed before or updated since 2E. We can't make up 5 years of new history for 3E, but we can make up stats easily enough using previous editions' stats. Basically, it comes down to the fact by leaving out reprints of old information, we get more new information we would not otherwise have, yet we still have these old 2E 'templates' for magical items to work off of ourselves.
Paladin3475 06-25-05, 07:54 PM	I'm kinda urked that my local comic shop which usually gets FR products before books stores around here, still hasn't even heard of this book. Thankfully however, Champions of Ruin humbled me in a way, and I've had alot more patience waiting than I usually have been known for. Strange.... I have the opposite problem where the release date says 6/2005 and I see it popping up in the shops around here in May... As for the comic book shops and such, my wife has officially banned me from them since I normally get into some conversation with the owner or clerk and next thing you know 3 hrs have passed... Paladin
ericlboyd 06-25-05, 07:55 PM	For what it's worth, the 2e City of Splendors boxed set appeared as it did due to an accounting error. In other words, a financial person at TSR miscalculated how much it cost to include all those extra maps and booklets, meaning it was worth far more than $25 and TSR lost money on it. At least that's what I've heard from my anonymous source, "Deep Water". :D --Eric
Yokinobu 06-25-05, 10:11 PM	Strange.... I have the opposite problem where the release date says 6/2005 and I see it popping up in the shops around here in May... As for the comic book shops and such, my wife has officially banned me from them since I normally get into some conversation with the owner or clerk and next thing you know 3 hrs have passed... Paladin Where do you live? I'm over here near the tip of western Kentucky, where it takes everything good forever to get here, be it product or store(we just recently got a Best Buy, and we still don't have a Target, Krispy Kreme, Starbucks, or Barnes and Noble). The last time people on this board started talking about recieving the latest sourcebook, it arrived here within a week, but it's been far longer, and CoS if far more anticipated for me. I wish I could talk to the employees at my comic book store, but we have nothing in common(they don't even play in FR). I swear, I have half a mind to open up my own store and give that run-down shack some much needed competition.
Paladin3475 06-25-05, 10:41 PM	Where do you live? I'm over here near the tip of western Kentucky, where it takes everything good forever to get here, be it product or store(we just recently got a Best Buy, and we still don't have a Target, Krispy Kreme, Starbucks, or Barnes and Noble). The last time people on this board started talking about recieving the latest sourcebook, it arrived here within a week, but it's been far longer, and CoS if far more anticipated for me. I wish I could talk to the employees at my comic book store, but we have nothing in common(they don't even play in FR). I swear, I have half a mind to open up my own store and give that run-down shack some much needed competition. I live in Dallas / Ft. Worth, Texas. Also have / had a WOTC distribution center here, so transit to locations is rather quick. However, might I direct you to Amazon.com or Ebay for sourcebooks? Besides for being significantly cheaper than stores, they are notorious for turning and burning their inventories on there. That is how I mostly took my 3.0 / 3.5 collection from 5 books to ~42+ books for about $300 to $400 including shipping... Total value is probably around $1000 if I ran to B&N and bought them. If you need a few good sellers on EBay, send me a Private Message and I will direct you to several of the good sellers that will cut deals if you are able to buy in bulk. My biggest problem now is I have bought most everything I want and need WOTC to release more content so I can buy more :P In fact, I know of a few in the KY area that you might be able to go pick up and save on the shipping costs altogther. Paladin
Demetrios 06-25-05, 11:13 PM	In fact, I know of a few in the KY area that you might be able to go pick up and save on the shipping costs altogther. Well, it all depends on which area of the state your sellers are in. I was raised in Kentucky and have lived there for all but the last few years now, and availability really depends on where you are. I could point out to him literally dozens of retailers in Louisville, Lexington, or Northern Kentucky (the Cincinnati suburbs), as I've visited pretty much all of them at one time or another. Paducah is another matter entirely - it's pretty isolated (as he has pointed out in his post) way down west there, with no really large city near. He could be a good two hours from the nearest seller you are talking about... Amazon might be the way to go for him though. He'll probably get the sourcebooks almost as soon as they are released, and the fact that Amazon has one of their main warehouses in Lexington means that he will likely get it only a day or two after it ships from there, even if he goes with the cheap and slow shipping route (It happens to me all the time here in Cincy, getting items from Amazon days before the likely delivery date).
Yokinobu 06-25-05, 11:24 PM	I live in Dallas / Ft. Worth, Texas. Also have / had a WOTC distribution center here, so transit to locations is rather quick. However, might I direct you to Amazon.com or Ebay for sourcebooks? Besides for being significantly cheaper than stores, they are notorious for turning and burning their inventories on there. That is how I mostly took my 3.0 / 3.5 collection from 5 books to ~42+ books for about $300 to $400 including shipping... Total value is probably around $1000 if I ran to B&N and bought them. If you need a few good sellers on EBay, send me a Private Message and I will direct you to several of the good sellers that will cut deals if you are able to buy in bulk. My biggest problem now is I have bought most everything I want and need WOTC to release more content so I can buy more In fact, I know of a few in the KY area that you might be able to go pick up and save on the shipping costs altogther. Paladin Thanks for the offer but I have no need...yet. You see, cost isn't really an issue, having only recently turned 18 and still living in my parent's house(room and board covered :D ), besides having a job with adequate pay. My biggest problem is patience, because I can't get the books when they are released, and envy toward those of you who can. :mad: As much as I dislike PDF, I would gladly pay to download CoS right now just so I could see what was in it. By the way, I may have to take you up on your offer later on if you're still willing, because I'm sure I'll have plenty of need to cut costs when I start college this fall. :bored:
Yokinobu 06-25-05, 11:28 PM	Well, it all depends on which area of the state your sellers are in. I was raised in Kentucky and have lived there for all but the last few years now, and availability really depends on where you are. I could point out to him literally dozens of retailers in Louisville, Lexington, or Northern Kentucky (the Cincinnati suburbs), as I've visited pretty much all of them at one time or another. Paducah is another matter entirely - it's pretty isolated (as he has pointed out in his post) way down west there, with no really large city near. He could be a good two hours from the nearest seller you are talking about... You hit it right on the target. By the way, it's good to meet someone that at least used to live in Kentucky. Most of the people I meet on these boards are from well-known cities or highly populated states(California, Florida, ect.) Makes me feel really small... Amazon might be the way to go for him though. He'll probably get the sourcebooks almost as soon as they are released, and the fact that Amazon has one of their main warehouses in Lexington means that he will likely get it only a day or two after it ships from there, even if he goes with the cheap and slow shipping route (It happens to me all the time here in Cincy, getting items from Amazon days before the likely delivery date). I checked amazon.com actually, and according to them, they won't get it until the 27th of July, and I'd hate to believe I'll have to wait THAT long, but if this local store doesn't get on the ball I may have to. Or I'll probably have to find another online retailer, though I'm afraid if I order it online it will show up in book stores around here before it arrives.
Razz 06-26-05, 12:43 AM	I don't think this book did Waterdeep any justice. In fact, I don't think ANY 3E Forgotten Realms products has done any of their topics justice. I wish it was back the way 2E was. Now THAT was real fluff. What WotC needs to do is cut the crap with the short page count, the short word count, and definitely decrease the font of their words so more can fit (like they did with FRCS). I honestly don't even bother getting regional books for the fluff. It's not enough, not as much as it should be. I only get them for the crunch. I simply purchase the old 2E products of FR when I want more background. I shouldn't have to pay 30-35 bucks for a slice of the whole pie. That was the only great thing about 2E Forgotten Realms...ah the good ol' days. WotC also needs to really conserve their resources. They should've done extensive fluff material on the regional books with very very little crunch, and then whoop out a humongous 350 page, small font book with all the crunch missing. Saves money, saves everyone a hassle, and everyone's happy. Oh wait, sorry, there I go dreaming again. LOL Forgot WotC is a member of corporate America and is mainly concerned with assets and not going broke like TSR did. Damn, silly foolish me. :rolleyes:
Demetrios 06-26-05, 01:01 AM	You hit it right on the target. Well, I did a quick search online, and you are right, there seems to be just that one comic book shop in Paducah. However, there appears to be two in Murray (which was somewhere I was going to suggest you take a look at, being a college town), as well as one in Dawson Springs. After that, you could go up to Carbondale (where there appears to one comic store) and then plenty in the Henderson/Owensboro/Evansville area (which, admittedly, is probably a bit too far for you). I found a pretty big list of comic book stores at: http://www.the-master-list.com/index.shtml You can just search by state and then call up to see if they carry the latest RPG releases (as many comic book stores do). I would think those Murray ones are your best bets. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a list of game/hobby stores online like this, but comic stores should be a good bet (I find it odd that your local Paducah one doesn't carry anything).
BrianCritchley 06-26-05, 01:27 AM	Well, the fact that there are 2E supplements that detail such items means that you indeed do have a base to work off of. By leaving the stats out of Waterdeep, they probably saved a good 5 or more pages to introduce or detail completely new parts of Waterdeep that have not been printed before or updated since 2E. We can't make up 5 years of new history for 3E, but we can make up stats easily enough using previous editions' stats. Basically, it comes down to the fact by leaving out reprints of old information, we get more new information we would not otherwise have, yet we still have these old 2E 'templates' for magical items to work off of ourselves. yeah but remember they are assuming that not everyone has the old waterdeep sourcebook to convert chars over. as someone who started with 3E I Apprecite having access to the stats
Yokinobu 06-26-05, 04:01 AM	Well, I did a quick search online, and you are right, there seems to be just that one comic book shop in Paducah. However, there appears to be two in Murray (which was somewhere I was going to suggest you take a look at, being a college town), as well as one in Dawson Springs. After that, you could go up to Carbondale (where there appears to one comic store) and then plenty in the Henderson/Owensboro/Evansville area (which, admittedly, is probably a bit too far for you). I found a pretty big list of comic book stores at: http://www.the-master-list.com/index.shtml You can just search by state and then call up to see if they carry the latest RPG releases (as many comic book stores do). I would think those Murray ones are your best bets. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a list of game/hobby stores online like this, but comic stores should be a good bet (I find it odd that your local Paducah one doesn't carry anything). Well, I appreciate the effort. Actually, MSU is where I'm attending school this fall. And I've been to one shop there(Warlord Comics) when I was taking a tour of the campus, but I didn't know of the other one. Warlord actually got CoR after Crash did(the Paducah store), so I'd rather try to find this other one before I relied on Warlord, which was just as much of a shanty as Crash, and smaller to boot.
memorax 06-26-05, 07:23 AM	I don't think this book did Waterdeep any justice. In fact, I don't think ANY 3E Forgotten Realms products has done any of their topics justice. I wish it was back the way 2E was. Now THAT was real fluff. What WotC needs to do is cut the crap with the short page count, the short word count, and definitely decrease the font of their words so more can fit (like they did with FRCS). I honestly don't even bother getting regional books for the fluff. It's not enough, not as much as it should be. I only get them for the crunch. I simply purchase the old 2E products of FR when I want more background. I shouldn't have to pay 30-35 bucks for a slice of the whole pie. That was the only great thing about 2E Forgotten Realms...ah the good ol' days. WotC also needs to really conserve their resources. They should've done extensive fluff material on the regional books with very very little crunch, and then whoop out a humongous 350 page, small font book with all the crunch missing. Saves money, saves everyone a hassle, and everyone's happy. Oh wait, sorry, there I go dreaming again. LOL Forgot WotC is a member of corporate America and is mainly concerned with assets and not going broke like TSR did. Damn, silly foolish me. :rolleyes: I wish I could disagree with you but I can't espcially after reading the book. It' s somewhat useful but feels like it's missing some much information. Imo it should have been as large as the FR book.
Krash 06-26-05, 08:15 AM	One i absolutely love the Waterdeep sourcebook but one thing that continues to annoy me is when they mention a specific magic item or artifact and then not give it a right up in the magic items section either leaving it out or not updating it to the 3.5 rules because they usually change its stats from the 2nd edition like how they mention andrathaths mask and aghairons supreme cloak or whatever we get hooked with no reward unless their releasing a magic items sourcebook for Faerun anytime soon we have no 3.5 to go by and otherwise we just create a version areselves but lack anything to really go by. The stats for Ahghairon's Cloak can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/forgottenrealms/DnD_RBN_009.asp Andrathath's Mask wasn't statted out in the book? Interesting ... -- George Krashos
Berzerker_prime 06-26-05, 01:18 PM	Oh wait, sorry, there I go dreaming again. LOL Forgot WotC is a member of corporate America and is mainly concerned with assets and not going broke like TSR did. Damn, silly foolish me. :rolleyes: Now, I see that as a somewhat one-sided view of things. After all, if a company goes broke, they go under and don't produce anything. I know there are some people out there who would rather it be thus, but personally I'd like to see the Realms continue for a nice long spell (if you'll pardon the pun). Aside from that, though, consider how much material, how much fluff, has already been published in the past. It's rather redundant to explain the entire history and setting of Waterdeep in great and gory detail when a lot of that is already in the hands of the consumer. To see it all again would be a waste of the writers' time, the readers' time, and WotC's resources. We don't need to hear about the innkeeper at the Inn of the Dripping Dagger again when it's already out there in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep. If you can look it up elsewhere, do you really need it again? WotC is continuing on the grand story line of the Realms and this book updates what's been happening as well as offers up a quick sketch of the past for those of us who are newer to it all. I think it's an excellent resource. Berz.
Razz 06-27-05, 12:37 PM	Now, I see that as a somewhat one-sided view of things. After all, if a company goes broke, they go under and don't produce anything. I know there are some people out there who would rather it be thus, but personally I'd like to see the Realms continue for a nice long spell (if you'll pardon the pun). Aside from that, though, consider how much material, how much fluff, has already been published in the past. It's rather redundant to explain the entire history and setting of Waterdeep in great and gory detail when a lot of that is already in the hands of the consumer. To see it all again would be a waste of the writers' time, the readers' time, and WotC's resources. We don't need to hear about the innkeeper at the Inn of the Dripping Dagger again when it's already out there in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep. If you can look it up elsewhere, do you really need it again? WotC is continuing on the grand story line of the Realms and this book updates what's been happening as well as offers up a quick sketch of the past for those of us who are newer to it all. I think it's an excellent resource. Berz. Then WotC needs to redirect their consumers back to 2E! They need to place sidebars stating "If you wish for more information on this, please refer to these 2E resources" Which, I was happy to notice, they actually managed to do that in CoS by mentioning the Ruins of Undermountain and a few other boxed sets. However, that poses yet another problem WotC was supposed to avoid. Their original intentions was to make sure new players (not old ones) wouldn't have to rely on other sources to have a better enjoyment of the game. That was the route TSR went and look what happened. It seems WotC s going that same route with Forgotten Realms. Why buy CoS only to find out as a new player and DM, you have to go and purchase Waterdeep boxed set, Ruins of Undermountain one and two, Maddgoth's Castle, Stardock, etc. etc. to have a fully detailed campaign? And for those that say "Well they're a few bucks buying the download versions", that really doesn't help because: 1) No one wants to blow their eyes out reading all that on the monitor 2) The money involved printing them out would be dowright too expensive 3) Fold-out maps don't come with the download versions, and printing them out ruins the scale measurements In the long run, WotC saves money, players and DMs are :confused: and jerked.
bobsan 06-27-05, 03:59 PM	Razz makes a good point Hidoreal (^_^ Yes folks - BP's one of my players.) By the looks of things, it's as if WotC is assuming that everyone has these older sourcebooks for reference when I'm sure alot of new players do not. Now we're a fortunate group because I've been collecting Realms books for a long time and have the Box set (Hence why I like the new book as a suppliment - See my post at the top of thisp age for my initial comparison) But, more than likely, there are players out there who are brand new to D&D and the Realms and don't know about the details that the box set provided. Take our campaign for example. the level of detail I've tried to include during your guys time in Waterdeep is only because of the massive fluff found in the box set. I'd hoped to make your guys time there as interesting as possible. even going to far as to adding detail to Gahn's attempt to repair his armor. 99% of this detail was because of the box set's fluff. There are certain things in that set that were not provided in the new book (For example, there is a listing of shops in Waterdeep that provide services and goods for adventurers (i.e. where to go to buy what)) Also, do you remember the time you, Ed, and myself spent part of the night pouring over the box set looking for a nice place for your characters for the winter and all the interesting details we found? Can't do that with this book unfortunately. While not a necessity in a game, it adds a certain something to make the experience better IMO (At least I hope it has guys ^_^ ) And that's what this book lacks. From a GM's standpoint, I would have a hard time recommending this to a new GM to the Realms who does not have access to older information. and while true, this info CAN be DLed through places like RPGnow.com, I certainly would not want to have to stare at a monitor all game. I too would love to see the Realms continue for a very very long time.
The Simple Seeker II 06-27-05, 06:18 PM	I am one of those 'new' players, that does not have access to the older stuff. Done by choice. But now, I have been buying the 3.0 verisons for reference material only. I don't however, Gm FR, I am just playing in it, for the time being.
raidensnake_2k4 06-27-05, 09:50 PM	i am excited about this book and i was wondering if someone could tell me what prestige classes are featured and a description of what they are like. thx
Kuje31 06-27-05, 09:52 PM	i am excited about this book and i was wondering if someone could tell me what prestige classes are featured and a description of what they are like. thx I did on page 1 reply #24. :)
Ziatyn Phoenixwolf 06-28-05, 12:16 AM	I like this book. It may not be every thing that was in the boxed set, but it is closer to the old Forgotten Realms books than any of the other newer books. I absoultly loved the fact that there were less than a handful of prestege classes and NO feats.
Demetrios 06-28-05, 06:44 AM	I like this book. It may not be every thing that was in the boxed set, but it is closer to the old Forgotten Realms books than any of the other newer books. I absoultly loved the fact that there were less than a handful of prestege classes and NO feats. Heh, you better not look on pages 144 - 146 then!
Sullivan 06-28-05, 01:39 PM	Hello Eric, What material, from your draft, ended up on the cutting room floor? Will we see any of this material elsewhere, such as in a web release? I was very pleased by the book. It is well written, and possesses a unity and focus. It is also nicely concise without leaving any serous gaping plot holes or questions. They way you included elements from stories and novels is also highly commendable. That said, I have two minor complaints. First, the book describes a madness inducing taint of Undermountain. This is an interesting aspect, but it is not to my knowledge (I may have missed something) explored – how does that work in game mechanics and is it something the PC need to worry about when they go down there? Second, you seemed to soften Khelben and his magical school. I am admittedly an ardent critic of Khelben, but as much as I dislike the character, I would personally prefer the SOB rather than changing him to make him “nicer.” Consistency is a friend. I know it was not the subject of the book, but where can I find information about Amphall? Also, where in the book can I find information about the lack of sprawl around Waterdeep? To everyone else, Eric did not determine the pagec ount or the lack of removable maps. That was done by Khelben… I mean the bosses at WotC.
ericlboyd 06-28-05, 02:33 PM	What material, from your draft, ended up on the cutting room floor? Will we see any of this material elsewhere, such as in a web release? Lots of little things, but that's the case with every book, particularly for me as I tend to overwrite. The major thing that was cut was the "Environs of Waterdeep" section. This is the major thrust of the web enhancement I turned in. I was very pleased by the book. It is well written, and possesses a unity and focus. It is also nicely concise without leaving any serous gaping plot holes or questions. They way you included elements from stories and novels is also highly commendable. That said, I have two minor complaints. First, the book describes a madness inducing taint of Undermountain. This is an interesting aspect, but it is not to my knowledge (I may have missed something) explored – how does that work in game mechanics and is it something the PC need to worry about when they go down there? I left this vague for space reasons, because it's only really a problem if you live down there for centuries, and because I didn't want to constrain Ed's ability to continue Halaster's story from "Elminster in Hell" in future novels. Second, you seemed to soften Khelben and his magical school. I am admittedly an ardent critic of Khelben, but as much as I dislike the character, I would personally prefer the SOB rather than changing him to make him “nicer.” Consistency is a friend. I'm not sure I agree that he's softer, so I'd appreciate insight as to how you felt it came across that way. In general, I think the school is more Laeral's than Khelben's these days, which makes it softer than Khelben to start with. Is it the alignment mix of the students? Something else that rubbed you wrong? I know it was not the subject of the book, but where can I find information about Amphall? See above. In the interim, "The North" is available for free on the WoTC website. Also, where in the book can I find information about the lack of sprawl around Waterdeep? This is covered to some extent in the aforementioned web enhancement (assuming it doesn't change in editing). The idea of sprawl was brought up on several message boards while I was writing the book, so I did think about this a lot and talked with Ed about it. I'd note the following: 1) Waterdeep has actively destroyed "sprawl" in the past. (Destroying the settlement that sprang up where the Rat Hills are today.) 2) FRCS indicates the population of the Waterdeep area is much higher than the city population, indicating that a LOT of people live in the area surrounding Waterdeep. 3) The threat of orc or troll hordes is real (see Waterdeep's history) and feared by the populace. 4) Sprawl is not depicted in any previous products or novels. In the end, I decided that Waterdeep is surrounded by farmland and small hamlets scattered throughout the region. Such settlements are generally smaller than Rassalantar and don't appear on maps. There is no concentration of settlements in the shadows of Waterdeep's walls because it does not provide any particular advantage (either you live in the city or you're a farmer) and because the Lords do not encourage such concentrations. To everyone else, Eric did not determine the pagec ount or the lack of removable maps. That was done by Khelben… I mean the bosses at WotC. Thanks for the comments. --Eric
ericlboyd 06-28-05, 02:42 PM	By the looks of things, it's as if WotC is assuming that everyone has these older sourcebooks for reference when I'm sure alot of new players do not. Whether or not I succeeded, this was absolutely NOT the assumption. I intended to write a book that new DMs could use without access to the other sources. I also intended to write a book that old DMs could use in addition to the other sources. (For example, there is a listing of shops in Waterdeep that provide services and goods for adventurers (i.e. where to go to buy what)) FWIW, thiis provided in Chapter 1, albeit in a shorter format. In general, I'd make the comment that one of the design decisions was whether to focus on commoners or "unique NPCs/organizations", given the page count. I made the decision to focus on the latter. My reasoning was that I thought it was most helpful to focus on aspects of Waterdeep that take a lot of DM prep time to work out. I don't feel that detailing the personalities of innkeepers generally meet that criteria versus, for example, working out the implications of the Threat from the Sea invasion (to pick a wholly random and not necessarily germane example). Thanks very much for your feedback, --Eric
Berzerker_prime 06-29-05, 12:56 AM	Razz makes a good point Hidoreal (^_^ Yes folks - BP's one of my players.) Yes, and let the record show that he misspelled Hadoriel's name! ;) Just kiddin'. Luv ya! ^_^ By the looks of things, it's as if WotC is assuming that everyone has these older sourcebooks for reference when I'm sure alot of new players do not. Now we're a fortunate group because I've been collecting Realms books for a long time and have the Box set (Hence why I like the new book as a suppliment - See my post at the top of thisp age for my initial comparison) But, more than likely, there are players out there who are brand new to D&D and the Realms and don't know about the details that the box set provided. Ah, but look at it from another perspective... When you're still relatively new to the Realms, a quick summary is better than trying to wade through the reams and reams of info published in the past. It can be mightily overwhelming when you're jumping in cold to a group with long-time vets tossing back and forth Realms lore. It's been a year and a half and I'm still no where near on par with you and Ran! CoS gives a nice capsule summary of events that are no longer current to Faerûn and goes into detail about what's happening now. And really, if you're playing current-time, like we are at the Company of the Combustible Cammode, that's the stuff that you need to know about right off the bat. Further research can be done later if you want to get more in-depth. I guess, as a relatively new player in the Realms myself, I appreciate the idea of having a resource with enough information to get going and no more. Does it tell us how many tables there are in the Dripping Dagger? Can Ran pick out the seat Ghan is going to monopolize for the winter? Do I know which wall Hadoriel is going to pin Amarthir to, eventually? No. But we know there is an inn called the Dripping Dagger and where it's located. CoS does leave out a lot of the stuff that you've used as a GM to give things flavor. But on the other hand, it's open enough that newer GMs can make up their own NPCs to populate the world and make things interesting and there's certainly something to be said for that. It all depends on how the GM wants to run the game. As an old hand, you're firmly on the research side of things (and as a result, to some extent I am as well. It's fun, I don't deny it!) and that certainly isn't anything to be looked down upon. But nor is the other method. Besides, I'd be willing to bet that it would take about as much time to make up the things a GM would need as you spend on research. ^_~ Berz.
msatran 06-29-05, 03:30 AM	What's up with Aghairon's Dragonward? That's the most broken piece of cheese I've ever seen! I've been running the same FR world for 18 years. There have been half dragons running around in Waterdeep for years in my TT game, and now they have to eat a DC 41 will save or be kicked out of their apartment? THIS DOES NOT FUNCTION! Worse still, there was little to no previous evidence in text to support this sort of thing, and it really creates a lot of painful backstory justification. The ward should only affect true dragons. Broken as the Half Dragon template is, this doesn't exactly encourage continuity in older, longer running games. I urge you to reconsider the text of these few paragraphs. Thank you.
ericlboyd 06-29-05, 07:56 AM	What's up with Aghairon's Dragonward? That's the most broken piece of cheese I've ever seen! I've been running the same FR world for 18 years. There have been half dragons running around in Waterdeep for years in my TT game, and now they have to eat a DC 41 will save or be kicked out of their apartment? The presumption is that there are as many dragons and half-dragons in the city as the DM wants. From a continuity standpoint, those dragons active in the City of Splendors are presumed to simply have made a deal of some sort with Maaril the Dragon Mage, exempting them from the effect. Although Maaril is evil, he gets along well with dragons and is quite honorable. Moreover, although he's quite willing to allow "sneak around in the shadows" or "walk around in the streets" dragons into Waterdeep, he rarely (the Riddling Dragon being a rare exception) allows powerful chromatics into the city to wreak havoc. (He likes his city after all.) THIS DOES NOT FUNCTION! Worse still, there was little to no previous evidence in text to support this sort of thing, and it really creates a lot of painful backstory justification. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/wn/20020828a See the end of the second paragraph. This first appeared in Dragon #239 in an article by Ed Greenwood. The ward should only affect true dragons. Broken as the Half Dragon template is, this doesn't exactly encourage continuity in older, longer running games. I urge you to reconsider the text of these few paragraphs. Thank you. You are of course encouraged to run your campaign however you see best. --Eric
Sullivan 06-29-05, 04:27 PM	The major thing that was cut was the "Environs of Waterdeep" section. This is the major thrust of the web enhancement I turned in. When can be expect the web supplement? I left this vague for space reasons, because it's only really a problem if you live down there for centuries... The vagueness on the crazy-go-nuts aspect of Undermountain make more sense – and it is not something PCs should have to worry about. Perhaps if there is a 3.5 supplement of Undermountain this can be explored. I'm not sure I agree that he's softer, so I'd appreciate insight as to how you felt it came across that way... It did not rub me the wrong way so much as it seemed inconsistent. Specifically, the third paragraph under Blackstaff Tower, described how both Laeral and Khelben work to prevent students from becoming restless and can part from the tower as friends with the people who are still at the tower. While this does seem to be in character for Laeral, it seems out of character for Khelben. He is far more likely to simply kick people to curb and have done with it. Khelben himself describes what it is like for his pupils in a short story – I can’t remember the title – about Khelben dealing with some gunpowder smugglers. I am simply being nitpicky because I dislike Khelben, but I dislike inconsistency even more. Thank you for your time.
GothicDan 06-29-05, 07:32 PM	Of course, Laerel probably has more influence over Khelben than anyone else in the Realms, and he probably acts, in regards to the school, with Laerel as his most trusted adviser - considering Eric said that it's more her school now. So, as Khelben is fading into the background, he is probably having less of a hands-on influence on the school, and is simply going with the flow of things as how Laerel would have them work, rather than directly doing things his own way. Inconsistency is bad, but dynamic personalities are not. I think that Khelben's love for Laerel is strong enough to have believably affected the archmage of Waterdeep, especially in regards to the school that he seems to leave in her hands more than his own now.
Preternatural 06-29-05, 08:01 PM	I have heard people complain that Khelban hasn't lightened up since marrying Laeral. Guess that's possibly not true anymore.
bshugg 06-30-05, 12:04 PM	I was a bit bummed about the size of the book. it could of had another 30-40 pages of content for that price, and I wouldn't mind a 5$ or even 10$ increase if it doubled in size. The content inside doesn't seem worth $29.99 to me. Its some rehash, a lot of extremely specialized stuff (the prestige classes) that will be hit or miss for most GM's, and a small amount of real quality content. I understand full color is expensive, but the recent books have been extremely lacking. I would vastly prefer more B/W pages and useful content, then a magazine thick book with full color. When the covers of the book are almost as thick as the pages inside then theres a problem.
Yokinobu 06-30-05, 01:55 PM	That's what I say. Honestly, I wouldn't mind having softcover books...not anymore. If it could signifcantly increase the number of pages while keeping production cost the same, then I'm all for it. I wasn't playing during 2E, but I believe most of the books of that time had soft covers anyway, and they were great.
Tempus665 07-08-05, 04:28 AM	Three cheers indeed :D Now that I finally have the book I can say I'm very pleased with it. :)
Bocklin 07-08-05, 11:19 AM	Yep, the book is very very nice. I still have much to read, but what I have seen so far is really "1A quality", as they say here. Thanks a lot Eric! Bocklin Three cheers indeed :D Now that I finally have the book I can say I'm very pleased with it. :)
bobsan 07-08-05, 01:03 PM	Whether or not I succeeded, this was absolutely NOT the assumption. I intended to write a book that new DMs could use without access to the other sources. I also intended to write a book that old DMs could use in addition to the other sources. FWIW, thiis provided in Chapter 1, albeit in a shorter format. In general, I'd make the comment that one of the design decisions was whether to focus on commoners or "unique NPCs/organizations", given the page count. I made the decision to focus on the latter. My reasoning was that I thought it was most helpful to focus on aspects of Waterdeep that take a lot of DM prep time to work out. I don't feel that detailing the personalities of innkeepers generally meet that criteria versus, for example, working out the implications of the Threat from the Sea invasion (to pick a wholly random and not necessarily germane example). Thanks very much for your feedback, --Eric Ah, but look at it from another perspective... When you're still relatively new to the Realms, a quick summary is better than trying to wade through the reams and reams of info published in the past. CoS does leave out a lot of the stuff that you've used as a GM to give things flavor. But on the other hand, it's open enough that newer GMs can make up their own NPCs to populate the world and make things interesting and there's certainly something to be said for that. It all depends on how the GM wants to run the game. As an old hand, you're firmly on the research side of things (and as a result, to some extent I am as well. It's fun, I don't deny it!) and that certainly isn't anything to be looked down upon. But nor is the other method. CoS gives a nice capsule summary of events that are no longer current to Faerûn and goes into detail about what's happening now. And really, if you're playing current-time, like we are at the Company of the Combustible Cammode, that's the stuff that you need to know about right off the bat. Further research can be done later if you want to get more in-depth. Eric, I do apologize for the way I worded my comments. I did not intend to make my comment sound like an accusation (Dispite the fact that it did). I suppose coming from that old school group of gamers, my opinions were slightly skewed towards what I had in the past in comparison to what's coming out now. Looking at it from the perspective BP mentioned above, I can see than the appeal for new players as it does provide a nice and concise summary of Waterdeep, giving them enough to get a campaign there up and running w/ little to no fuss. But also, as I mentioned, I do enjoy the book given that I have the older materials to base fluff on. As for these web enhancements, can we expect more fluff and less crunch? What sort of things might we be seeing (If I may ask ^_^ )? Yes, and let the record show that he misspelled Hadoriel's name! ;) Just kiddin'. Luv ya! ^_^ And to think, I'm her GM and I can't get the character name right. Man! I need to game more. ^_^ guess, as a relatively new player in the Realms myself, I appreciate the idea of having a resource with enough information to get going and no more. Does it tell us how many tables there are in the Dripping Dagger? Can Ran pick out the seat Ghan is going to monopolize for the winter? Do I know which wall Hadoriel is going to pin Amarthir to, eventually? No. But we know there is an inn called the Dripping Dagger and where it's located. Besides, I'd be willing to bet that it would take about as much time to make up the things a GM would need as you spend on research. ^_~ Well, I suppose that depends on what I'm researching. For a new player, you're right. It might take just as much time. but as you said, people like Randy and I have been enjoying Ed's Playground for quite some time and could probably find things faster than make them up in as detailed a form as what was already there. But again, that might depend on what we have avaialable at the time as well as what we're looking up. ^_^ It can be mightily overwhelming when you're jumping in cold to a group with long-time vets tossing back and forth Realms lore. It's been a year and a half and I'm still no where near on par with you and Ran! Well I guess we'll just have to game more and drill more Realmslore into yer head. ^_^ Though I must say the tables are definitely turned in regards to LotR lore. Your forte hands down. ^_^
Berzerker_prime 07-08-05, 02:41 PM	As for these web enhancements, can we expect more fluff and less crunch? What sort of things might we be seeing (If I may ask ^_^ )? Yes, I, too, would love to hear more about the web enhancements. :dancin: And to think, I'm her GM and I can't get the character name right. Man! I need to game more. ^_^ You know I'm always up for it! Well I guess we'll just have to game more and drill more Realmslore into yer head. ^_^ Oooh! Does that mean more "Realmsian Hangman?" :evillaugh Though I must say the tables are definitely turned in regards to LotR lore. Your forte hands down. ^_^ Must... roll stats... for... Dul Guldor one-shot... adventure! Must... defend... Mirkwood! Must... make Sauron... fight war... on two fronts! Lacho galad, drego dú! :schemes: Berz.
bobsan 07-08-05, 02:55 PM	Yes, I, too, would love to hear more about the web enhancements. :dancin: ::Gets Wide-eyed like a tyke begging for candy:: Please Papa Boyd :weep: You know I'm always up for it! Well if people show up early tomorrow, perhaps I'll try and wing something. Even if I have to toss people in as they show up. Oooh! Does that mean more "Realmsian Hangman?" :evillaugh That was fun! We definitely have to do that again sometime. Perhaps we can lure other club members into Ed's Playground. Must... roll stats... for... Dul Guldor one-shot... adventure! Must... defend... Mirkwood! Must... make Sauron... fight war... on two fronts! Lacho galad, drego dú! :schemes: :plotting: "I cast Detect Drow with blast radius starting here." "Wait, 'Detect Drow' is a Fireball!?!" Gods Some of these lines are great! :rofl:
Belissaire 07-08-05, 05:27 PM	I like the book, but apart from the other stuff that would be needed like the detachable map, I think there should have been a section on politics. What are the relations between Waterdeep and the Silver Marches, or the Shade, or Amn, or Baldur's Gate. Maybe this info is in other source books (2E), but I would have been interesting to read in this book... Bel
Si 07-27-05, 10:27 AM	I like the book, but apart from the other stuff that would be needed like the detachable map, I think there should have been a section on politics. What are the relations between Waterdeep and the Silver Marches, or the Shade, or Amn, or Baldur's Gate. Maybe this info is in other source books (2E), but I would have been interesting to read in this book... Bel That could work for the whole of Faerun, come to think of it, it's be damn useful for a campaign based around trade or espionage.
ozdan 07-27-05, 08:47 PM	I should have been more specific. The binding on mine was so tight I was unable to lay the book flat on a surface. Take your Serpent Kingdom books and lay it flat. Then try and do the same with the Waterdeep book. You can but it feels like the spine on the Waterdeep book is going to break. Mine was not an isloated copy either. The same can be said of the Lords of Madness book. I agree having an index would have been nice. Ditto. Cover feels too 'tight' - I work in print production and noticed this almost immediately. I feel like the cover is 'stretching' whenever I open and close it.
jim9311 07-27-05, 09:01 PM	Memorax- the binding on mine was horrible also. The other four in the store were the same. I felt like i was going to break the spine just opening the book. As far as the material, the book is awesome. I hope that WOTC will keep up the fluff level of this book. As a sidenote, has anyone heard anything of Stephen Schend lately.
Kuje31 07-27-05, 09:10 PM	As a sidenote, has anyone heard anything of Stephen Schend lately. He's working on a Blackstaff novel due out next year. :) And he did help with some of the design of Waterdeep. He doesn't come to these boards, gee I wonder why!, but he does answer us over on Candlekeep.com. :)
jim9311 07-28-05, 02:33 PM	thanx kuje. some of my favorite realms material has been from him. I miss the realms at night web articles. They finished the Waterdeep ghosts, but I never saw the Silverymoon articles. Anyway, I had seen his name on the credits page, but didn't know if it was current contributions or 1e and 2e reference materials.
TomCosta 07-28-05, 02:39 PM	As Kuje implied, Steven contribution was both modern (with the novel and his advice/suggestions) and historical (given his extensive work on Realmslore and Waterdeep in particular).
Si 07-29-05, 02:56 AM	Stephen Schend's working on a Blackstaff novel? Excellent, here's hoping we get some glimpses of wild and wooly Waterdeep before the Shadow thieves got kicked out.
theonlygolux 07-29-05, 05:18 AM	However, the book is lacking a lot of fluff. Waterdeep is one of the best detailed places in the Realms, but you would hardly know it from this book. It only lists a hand full of noble familes, and the rest are just left as names. The same is true with locations. In the ward listing you can read the names of shops, taverns and such.......but no information about them, other then their location. Though I guess all this fluff would have taken up way too much space........ BT My DM bought it and was happy, he asked me not to buy it because he wants to use some of the plots within, but he was unhappy that it didn't have more detail. We have the 2e Waterdeep and that seems to have alot more source material about the actual city, whereas this one seems only to have done one major building in each ward etc... Somewhat of a shame. I'm posting here mainly to get that damn thread about the book being sexist off the head of the thread. Why? 5 pages! How? Don't people have better things to do?
GothicDan 07-29-05, 09:29 AM	No. ;) Not until school starts next month for me, at least.
Tiernee 07-29-05, 09:40 AM	Once the person who started the whole thing gets back from his/her plague, we figure they'll chime in about the whole conspiracy to keep the fat NPC down theory. I personally find it pretty silly for a DM to be unhappy with only 'one building' in a ward. Don't they -want- to create the area themselves? I'd think it'd be a DM's nightmare if every corner was described in detail. Then you'd inevitably get the player who is constantly like 'Oh no, on page 223 of Flora and Fauna of Faerun it states that the Flippity plant only grows on the left side of the street, and cannot survie in a humid climate' Someone would have to die.
Kuje31 07-29-05, 11:42 AM	Stephen Schend's working on a Blackstaff novel? Excellent, here's hoping we get some glimpses of wild and wooly Waterdeep before the Shadow thieves got kicked out. Nay, it's going to be set in 1374 so we probably won't get to see the Shadow Thieves being kicked out. :)
Si 08-01-05, 03:32 AM	Nay, it's going to be set in 1374 so we probably won't get to see the Shadow Thieves being kicked out. :) But if it's set in 1374 then we might get a glimpse of the new Shadow thieves. Whatever happens the return of Mr Schend to Waterdeep is cause for celebration, Yess!