Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BITING-GNOME 08-27-03, 06:04 PM	my friend wants to be a diety. on top of this he plans to do this at level 20. everytime i tell hims its to much he threatens to get the players to ignore me and become the DM himself. I have tried to compromise and lets him become a paragon or feind of blasphemy. Any thoughs?
Palem Whistler 08-27-03, 06:19 PM	Let him be a deity but only challenge him as much as the other players are challenged. When he can walk through any situation with ease, he'll get bored quite quickly.
Bazcasta 08-27-03, 06:31 PM	I wouldn't let him be a deity until he has enough "power" to maintain that status... level 20 is not high enough (IMO), Most deities are at least lvl 40, Elminster is lvl 29 (i think), and he's not a deity. Make him wait, then give him demigod if he survives that long. *Side note 1: HE doesn't control when he's a deity, you do, your the DM... I know you've probably heard that about 90,000 times but I had to say it. Don't compromise... There's nothing to compromise about. He wants something he can't handle yet, don't say; "Instead you can be a demon."; Say: "No, you can be a (whatever races you allow in your campaign) then, you may be a deity if you do certain acts that would get you to deital-status." *Side note 2: A player in my group asked what he should do to get his alignment from CN, to NG, I said "Do good things, lawful things, and somethings chaotic." Then I proceeded to make a small mental list of what he had to do: 2 Lawful things, 4 Good things, and 1 Chaotic thing. My palyer alread got 2 good thing. I suggest you come up with certain things that your player might have to do to become a deity, but don't tell him, make him work for it.
Cunning Linguist 08-27-03, 06:36 PM	Tell him to frell off, you need to be level 40 to become a god, tell him if he can Hack Elminister, Larloch and Szass in one session, he's on. Any player that threatens the DM with boycott if they don't get there way is sure to get his cumupins with a random beholder encounter that will punish him for his curiosity.
BITING-GNOME 08-27-03, 08:03 PM	Heres my next problem. He thinks 40+ to become a diety is to high and will stop playing if i make this to hard for him. As for the boredem solution - it wont work either. Once hes a diety he plans on me making epic campainges for him ( i never agreed ) in which he can fight bigger deities. And i cant ban him from playing without problems. If he goes the other players will quit. Also if it takes to long they will lose intrest. The game will end right there.
Bazcasta 08-27-03, 08:21 PM	Kill his character
Gotrex 08-27-03, 08:22 PM	Give him what he wants and then some make him a deity then make him fight other deities as he likes but make the deity he fights much stronger than him and kill him end of problem
Bazcasta 08-27-03, 08:25 PM	Wow, how did i manage to screw up this post so bad... DELETE
Thrudjelmer 08-27-03, 08:52 PM	I have a player interested in having his character ascend to godhood also. My plan is to give him a set of achievable goals which will set him on the path to power. He needs the Leadership feat, at least 20 levels in a single class, divine sponsorship, and half the number of worshippers required for a demigod... once he acquires these, he can start taking Outsider hit dice instead of normal levels. Once he reaches 20 "levels" of Outsider, he'll achieve demigod status. I'm trying to work out a balanced progression for the abilities of a quasi-diety (Divine Rank 0), gaining them as he gains his Outsider "levels." During this time, he should also be focusing on a portfolio... though if it infringes on another god's, I forsee a dedicated effort to hinder is progress). Once he is effectively a demigod (20 levels in a single class, 20 Outsider HD, and Divine Rank 1)... the character is removed from play and becomes a valid religion in my campaign. The player no longer controls the god, but can influence the religion somewhat by offering suggestions and ideas. At this point, however, I have final say over it all. Ask your player if he'll be content to effectively retire his character by becoming a god... its not just a matter of game balance, but the new demigod will have responsibilities to his new clergy and all the problems one would expect a new god to have establishing his "place" in the world and holding on to it. Ending his adventuring career (and ability to actively use all that godly power he's craving) may be just the thing to discourage him from persuing this end... but if not, and you're willing to go into epic levels, you now have a logical and fair way to proceed. With that in mind, if he wants to whine about that taking too long, and tries to convince the other players not to listen to you, just show them you've made a serious effort to accomodate him and he's being unfair and/or irrational. And a big jerk. They won't want him as a DM.
Bazcasta 08-27-03, 09:53 PM	I never understood this (probably because I don't have Deties and Demigod), but how do dieties get their "outsider" hit dice? I also noticed that some deities in the F&P Don't have outsider hit die... I think Cyric or Bane is one of them.
Cunning Linguist 08-28-03, 03:11 AM	Make them all gods, then send a Hecatoncheires after them..
kedi 08-28-03, 04:34 AM	kill him:devil: make him a god, than makr ToT2 and sent AO to kill him, murder him, slowly....:devil:
Thrudjelmer 08-28-03, 04:34 PM	Originally posted by Bazcasta I never understood this (probably because I don't have Deties and Demigod), but how do dieties get their "outsider" hit dice? I also noticed that some deities in the F&P Don't have outsider hit die... I think Cyric or Bane is one of them. Most dieties just have outsider hit dice. No process is described for acquiring such in any sourcebook that I am aware of. This is why I came up with the process above for mortals ascending to godhood.
Archmage 08-28-03, 04:44 PM	Deities have to be born as deities in order to have Outsider Hit Dice (although St. Cuthbert seems to be an odd exception to the rule). Ascended mortals (such as Azuth, Bane, Cyric, Mystra, Kelemvor, Finder, and Siamorphe) never get Outsider Hit Dice. As for this power-hungry player, I say make him work for it. Have him slay a demigod (if he can) or at least hit upon a process by which he can steal divine ranks from a deity (last time I checked, casting Karsus' Avatar is out of the question).
KRONOS 08-28-03, 05:36 PM	Have the other players "demanded" anything? Do they want to be just as powerfull? Because I do not think they will have any fun wading throught the path of destruction that he clears for them. You can't have one player uber-powerful compared to the others. That just sucks! Who's game is this anyway? You tell him what he can get away with. If he does not like it, let him be the DM and give you godhood instead. Players like this don't last long with me.
Savras 08-28-03, 05:46 PM	Originally posted by Archmage Ascended mortals (such as Azuth, Bane, Cyric, Mystra, Kelemvor, Finder, and Siamorphe) Is Siamorphe an ascended mortal??? When? Who? Why? And how come I was never told? Savras
Mirtek 08-28-03, 07:07 PM	Originally posted by Savras Is Siamorphe an ascended mortal??? When? Who? Why? And how come I was never told? Savras See Faiths&Avatars. Of the top of my head: Every 100 years or so she let herself be slain and a new mortal noble ascends to take her place or something like this. The last Siamorphe ascended sometime around the ToT (either shortly before, during, or shortly thereafter)
Numos3 08-29-03, 11:42 PM	Take demigods and deities, and beat him over the head with it.
WraithXIII 08-30-03, 12:52 PM	Originally posted by BITING-GNOME Heres my next problem. He thinks 40+ to become a diety is to high and will stop playing if i make this to hard for him. As for the boredem solution - it wont work either. Once hes a diety he plans on me making epic campainges for him ( i never agreed ) in which he can fight bigger deities. And i cant ban him from playing without problems. If he goes the other players will quit. Also if it takes to long they will lose intrest. The game will end right there. I got your solution right here. Go to the other players and tell them that if they don't want to play if this guy doesn't, then fine, don't. This guy is a bunghole and if he was in my campaign, I would gladly kick him out without a second thought. You are the DM, it's your game, if he doesn't like he needs to move on. If the other players don't like your decision, they can move on too. I went years before I played D&D again. I am currently in a group that has a guy like this, though not nearly as bad. If he rants, I stop, then continue the story when he is done. I have toyed with the idea of moving the game to my house if he gets too bad, but for now, that isn't necesary. But you need to put your G.O.D. foot down and tell him how it is. I am sure every DM here is willing to stand by your side on this issue.
burningwizard 08-30-03, 05:59 PM	In response to your dilemma- Roleplaying is a game. And more importantly, it is a VOLUNTARY game. NO ONE is forcing any player to attend your sessions. NO ONE is requiring weekly dues or bribes or favors to play. That's what voluntary means. But what your rather imcompetent friend needs to realize is that although volunteering is his choice, it also comes with certain responsibilities attached. It's just like if you were to join the football team. It's voluntary. No one made you sign up. But once you're on, you are required to adhere to certain policies and regulations. If the coach says run 20 laps, by the Gods, you had better do it. If the coach says you can't play in the game because of your bad attitude and vile mouth, you sure as hell can't play. YOU, the DM, are the coach. If your errant companion wishes to continue to participate in YOUR voluntary organization, he HAS to obey your ground rules and dictates. Or else he can bend over, put his head between his legs, and kiss his arse goodbye. Don't worry about the rest of the group; they will realize their choice is clear: follow the idiot, or have fun without the idiot. To summarize, roleplaying is a fun voluntary activity. It always has been. And one bad apple should never, ever spoil the barrel. Those are my three-and-a-half coppers anyway. :)
rmilsop 08-31-03, 01:08 AM	See my advice in the "problem player crying to his mum" thread. It all starts with "get an axe" :devil: But really, just put it to them in a group often in a group you will find that they behave diferently. It may be that your other players don't really want this guy in the campaign anyway, not with that attitude. Detail to him exactly what he needs to do to become a god (follow someone else's guidelines here) and say that this is how it can be done. Give him homework - come up with a portfolio, symbol, rules for his clerics etc, pick his domains that complement his portfolio - and only when he has done that should you let him even consider it. In addition, if any of the ideas in his portfolio are covered by another deity, just flat out reject it. You need to be like a fair parent - "You want to be an adult, fine here's how you be an adult" attitude.
Desies 08-31-03, 02:33 AM	your problem is easy to solve step 1) go to a gun store step 2) buy a gun step 3) bring gun to session step 4) shoot the bastard in the face problem solved:D
thalious 08-31-03, 03:00 AM	Become a God by level 20.... Good luck, chances are the character will become godpet fodder. I say let em go for it and suffer the consequences for such an utter lack of experience. :devil:
KRONOS 08-31-03, 03:01 AM	:uh-huh:
Alac Luin 08-31-03, 01:34 PM	Originally posted by Savras Is Siamorphe an ascended mortal??? When? Who? Why? And how come I was never told? Savras You were probobly stuck in that stick at the time
Savras 08-31-03, 01:37 PM	Originally posted by Alac Luin You were probobly stuck in that stick at the time http://www.geocities.com/flammabledragon/Savaraswine.TXT Savras P.S.: This is one funky smile, eh?
Desies 08-31-03, 06:31 PM	another solution would be to let him become a god. At level 20 all he would have to do is irritate a god of opposing alignment and they would smite him. They're gonna have at least 20 levels on him...he wont stand a chance!
Thrudjelmer 08-31-03, 07:45 PM	...or, you could have a jealous god covet his chosen portfolio and decide to take it... by force. If the character survives, it'd be a miracle.
ADAM GRAY 09-01-03, 12:22 AM	BITING-GNOME dont give in. It seems that if your player gets his way (in this) or "DM's" your group there will be a mass evacuation from your group. The game is as individual as the varied groups that play. I dont mean to be harsh but replied to say "smite the jerk" if this causes your playing group to break down, have a break. then start again, with or without your current group. If your group is made up of people that you have known for a long time and know them well, take this into account, but I sympathize and would not put up with it. hope all goes well. adam.
Lee Warlow 09-02-03, 11:24 PM	I really need to know what type of god he wants to become and what class he is now, to fully comment. If he is a rogue with interests in intrigue and thievery then he has alot of trouble coming his way if he is a mage hAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. dead, etc. People only become gods through divine intervention or sheer power of will no character of 20th level has that. Set him up, play along, devote 3 whole playing sessions solely to this brat and then smite him down The rest of the party members will be so relieved to finally have the spot light back that they will not follow his lead again.
kedi 09-03-03, 04:26 AM	kill him
rmilsop 09-03-03, 05:59 AM	Actually, I agree with Adam. Give him some playing sessions (3 is a nice nice number, when you think about it) and then just have him smoten.
Godagast 09-04-03, 01:14 AM	Get rid of your "friend". A guy who blackmails you like that and is hell-bent on getting his way all the time is not your friend by any stretch of the imagination. Sounds more like a spoilt brat to me. In addition, judging by his wish to become a god (how imaginative!) and playing epic level campaigns, the poor sod seems to be afflicted with the "achievement complex" that plagues too many of the younger D&D players nowadays - people who view their character merely as a walking bunch of statistics and feats, and are there only to show off and "win" the game. In truth, they understand nothing of what roleplaying is about. In so many words, find a different group of players. You'll see, it will do yourself - and the game - good.
Charles Phipps 09-04-03, 01:35 AM	Bloodthirsty arn't we... I think you should talk to him. Basically say you don't want to be blackmailed into the whole issue of making him a god. The guy is obviously enamoured of the epic level handbook and the idea of taking on gods.... Explain to him your view on gods and point out whether or not you think this might be tough. Also point out in Forgotten Realms that deities are required to ascend you. Tell him his character could be 90th level and he'd still be mortal if no god likes him but he could ascend at 1st level if he managed somehow to get a deities support. That's how I'd view it. If you want to help, run the Time of Troubles or DIE VECNA DIE with Velsharoon and garguath and ascend ALL the players to lesser god status That will create a wonderful check and balance if you DO want to run a god game... Make them share a realm and hash it out :angel:
kedi 09-04-03, 03:30 AM	yeah, we sure bloodthirsthy http://www.members.shaw.ca/eogan/emoticons/firedevil.gif
Darkmistress 09-04-03, 03:40 AM	Bloodthirsty is good. Besides, in this case, the spoilt little boy deserves all the spanking he can get, methinks.
sidekick 09-04-03, 03:42 AM	First off W.T.F.??????? No player has the right to exercise than kind of control over you. Yo da man, lay down th law dawg! Oh and I think the idea of making him set goals and the outsider dice stuff is a very good idea. If he does go through with the idea then make sure that you tel him that the character will be retired as soon as he achieves goddom (cool I just made a word!). And remember to tell him lots as he sounds like he's got a very selective memory/ listening skills. And if none of that works... SMOTE HIM BACK TO THE DAYS OF THE SHOON EMPIRE and then proptly tell him he is no longer welcome at your sessions.
BITING-GNOME 09-04-03, 07:09 PM	Thanx for your responces. I've have talked to him and he has settled down. Also i have set a plan for his trip to becoming a deity.
mwbeeler 09-04-03, 07:58 PM	Long ago we actually did have a character in our party who was a Godling. He was constantly badgered by worshippers for spells (IIRC he had a pool of spells per day but it was almost always empty becuase he had to grant them all away), favors, appearances, you name it. It was a nightmare for him, he could barely get any time to himself to adventure because of the demands of being a diety. I say run with it, if he wants to be a celebrity, show him the dark side of being in the limelight. No peace, everyone wants a slice of his power, offend worshippers and watch them abandon him for "better" dieties; go nuts! :) Remember, you are the DM: Anything a PC is given, you can take away, but do it in a way that's fun for both of you, and a good learning experience.
The 'Liss 09-06-03, 01:46 AM	I never feel the urge to play a god. Being so powerful might get boring...I get bored with characters past 15th level...and even that's pushing it.
twistedbutsane 09-07-03, 09:02 AM	Sounds like you have a really charged table happening. What I would do is at the very next gathering, sit em all down together and say that there is something you want to bring up. Explain the point of a dungeon master (you know, "Guide the game and make it enjoyable for everyone, and if anyone sees a destiny for their character they should talk to you about it whatever it is"). Then say that whats-his-faces has come to you demanding godhood and epic games to suit his character and himself, threatening that if he doesn't get what he wants, he will DM and that the players are going to quit your game (at this point they will either gasp in shock or nod their heads in agreement :nonono: ). Then bring up that a game like this would likely revolve around his character much more than the others. but if thats agreeable with everyone (even you) then you can carry on but with a much more realistic timeframe (Level 20 . :rofl: ) or offer to run an entire game with each player having a Power character after this one (the jerk can model his new pc as his current and it can pick up shortly after the other game left off) Then explain that this game is as much for your enjoyment as theirs and if anyone starts making demands again that you will decree that all of their characters die of the Plague, end the game and stop DM'ing so someone else can take over. :mad: I doubt the person that was making demands of you would really take on the role of DM he sounds like too much of a spotlight hog and not very imaginative. If he did DM i am sure the others would get tired of his scenario's anyway. The players are still participating because they are enjoying the games so they will likely come back or stick with you. Not to be a downer but start looking for a new group now, at worst you have others to DM with if the group does give you the flick at best you have some more played who probably won't be so easily influenced by that one player. Goodluck anyways
Dat' Big Dragon 09-07-03, 06:04 PM	:eek:. Duder. What ever happened to furthering player goals?! Isn't that the major point behind playing DnD? All you people are saying is to kill him without further details on the purpose of his desire. What if he wants to be a good diety? Just because someone wants to be a god doesn't mean they are automatically going to be bad. Besides, this is the kind of thing that they made a book to handle. You know, it's called Dieties and Demigods! Whatever happened to the 300 some-odd pages of rules covering bing a diety without letting them get out of hand? You guys make me laugh if you call yourselves DM's worthy of a long lasting game. I mean give me a break! "Devote three whole playing sessions to him and then kill him off." OMG! This whole attitude of "Let's make everything able to die at the drop of a hat because we can't handle the thought of a character with some thouhgt and good roleplaying put into him." makes me think you guys are pathetic. People post threads like this because they want to be able to gather learning tools to help them handle situations without ruining their campains and to brainstorm ideas on how to spice up their game. If this guy wants to become a diety I say let him. You don't have to make it easy to do though. Make him go through some rigorous qualification process before he even begins the path of a god. Make him research relligious politics or something but don't crush him altogether or people won't play in your campaigns. Especiallyif the person in question is interested in furthering and fostering player goals and is capable of DMing. I swear, I only read one or two worthy posts on this whoel thread. One by Bazcatsa and one by Thrudjelmer. Thrud's was the best in my opinion because his required some actual thought beyond "I don't like it. Die! Die! Die!". Plus he gave an actual way to deal with the situation in a positive and helpful manner. So I'm behind Thrud on this one. They have rules for this thing for a reason so don't get overwhelmed by it, just get ahold of Dieties and Demigods for a bit and read it over. Everything but ascension is covered (that means how to control them so they don't get out of hand!), they just say that you as the DM have to come up with how they are able! My suggestion, USE THRUD'S IDEA!
Kacesen_Black 09-07-03, 06:37 PM	Dat' Big Dragon ok now if the pc's want to become a god ok even i can hadle that as a DM, but i dont let it cuz i get bored of epic games fast. But saying all of us DM's dont know what we are talking about well i have to say if i had him i would kill him off fast, and if that player was acting liek that to me i would slap the crap out of him and kick him out of the group. sure there is books and ruels about being a god and stuff but i dont know a lot of DM that go all the way like that cuz it is hard to think of campagins for that crap. but really all i got to say is stfu you dip and just stop talking
Nightingale 7 09-07-03, 07:07 PM	Dat Big Dragon let's be calm here.Insulting anybody is only bound to make things worse.The point with this person is not that he'd like his character to become a god.Plenty of players want that.The thing is that player DEMANDED of his DM to make him a god,DEMANDED of the DM to then run adventures for his god exclusively,and then THREATENED that if he doesn't get the things his way then he will leave and take the other players with him(we don't have any clue if the players actually agreed to that!) When you play a cooperative game you do not demand or threaten or take the spotlight only for yourself.This guy is obviously egoistic and used to have his way at all times.Did he even ask the DM if he would like to devote the time to craft adventures for his sorry epic butt?No.DMing is oftenly a thankless job.The players only have to make their characters.The DM has to concece a LOT of time to build adventures,so that he and his players can have fun.I know,because I am one too occassionaly,and when I read the post about that arrogant little b*****d wanting the DM to be his personal slave for his egomaniacal fix I couldn't help but start seeing red!I agree that DMs shouldn't arrange PC deaths,but just as well a player shouldn't arrange for his pc's godhood by threatening the DM,so what's good for the good is good for the gander eh?
BITING-GNOME 09-07-03, 08:24 PM	This is getting out of hand. I the player's brother the thread name and now the person who wants to become a deity is righting things in his defence. FYI - it is dat big dragon. Also he is trying to use the fact that the game it at his house as leverage.
Dat' Big Dragon 09-07-03, 09:07 PM	Listen up. I had a chat with BITING-GNOME and demanding was not the case. GNOME wsas forbidding to allow the furthering of the players goals and in this case outright said, "Not in my campaign cuz I don't like it." Now what is up with that? Then, the player repeatedly tried to comprimise and got a wall of no's. So the player gave it a thought. The player was scheduled to take over at the point of epic levels for the campaign as the DM. This was to happen because the player had an epic campaign ready and it needed to be playtested. So gnome posted his thread, asking for assistace. He got a load of "kill him" stuff and not alot of actual help. Then THRUD came along and posted his 2 bits. This caught a spark in gnomes head. We chatted agin after this and mulled of the topic some more. Apparently both the player and gnome agreed to let the player become a diety, but only after certain cnditions were met. Then the player would retire the character and the new diety was a god eligible for use in the future. This I considered to be a bit of genious. All help from THRUD's post of course. But more of you wouldn't stray from "kill him" and give good answers. So i post this thread. Because I slap a bit of reality into your face and you people say i should lay off. If you actually read the DM's guide then you would know that the whole thing is abook on how to foster player goals, not just run the campaign. Because the player are what make the game a game. The Dm is just a moderator with all the ramdom information to make the game work. But there is more surrounding gnome's problem than you seem to think. Gnome and I chatted again and mulled over the subject. The player cannot be killed. Not because he is invincible or anything, but because the game must be held at the player's house. This is because gnome's dad has a problem with another of the players and the only way to play is at the specified location. Add to that the fact that these are the only people that gnome plays DnD with and is passionate about the game. That is the kind of people these forums are for. The people who want to do more than be able to off a player at the drop of a hat. They are for groups wishing to add some spice by getting NEW AND ORIGINAL IDEAS from outside sources. So, until some thought is put into a post beyond "off him cuz he just won't work" I wouldn't start giving people flak when they tell you to get original. I mean come on now people, if gnome wanted to off the character then I am pretty sure he could have come up with that solution himself, don't you? So, unfortunately in this case "What's good for the good is not good for the gander."
BITING-GNOME 09-07-03, 09:31 PM	OK. He admits it ( see my last post ). This is what im dealing with. HE IS BEGGING for me to remove my posts for his rep.
Kacesen_Black 09-07-03, 10:54 PM	no never let him think about what he did for he should know never mess with a DM!!!! cuz you get slaped down
Thrudjelmer 09-08-03, 01:23 AM	Slapped down? Sounds like a DM vs. player mentality. I'm not saying players should be able to dictate how things are going to be, but neither should DM's dictate to players. D&D is a cooperative game where everyone is supposed to have fun. If there's a disagreement of ideas, work it out. Players who get unruly trying to get their way have to realize they can't just have anything (or everything) they want... and if they want something more out of the game, should try to work it out outside normal gameplay. DMs should be open to what the players want, because if the players don't get what they want, then why should they care to play. I'm saying that yes, you should give the players what they want... however, you don't have to hand it over on a silver platter, or even give it to them in the manner that they expect. If no compromise can be reached, only then do I recommend leaving the game. Kicking someone out is not the answer and promotes hard feelings all around. If the player refuses to accept compromise, then suspend the game. Start a new campaign if you must, excluding that player from it only if he does not want to start fresh... perhaps one day you may all come to an understanding and agree to resume the old campaign. On the other hand, when a DM is unbending and just wants to run the show his way regardless of how a player (or players) want, then those players who aren't happy should leave the game. Above all, remember that it is a game. One more thing... I very much have a problem with someone expecting the DM to make the player a god, as opposed to making his character a god. :D
Cunning Linguist 09-08-03, 03:44 AM	Because the player are what make the game a game. The Dm is just a moderator with all the ramdom information to make the game work. You must not have read the DMG that well, because you missed "When everyone gathers around the table to play the game, you're in charge" and "Good players will always recognize that you have the ultimate authority over the game mechanics". The problem here is that a player has "forced" his DM into doing something the DM does not want. This goes against the First, and well, only rules in the DMG that always stands the one rule that can never ever be overruled, and that’s that the DM is Always Right. And if I’m not mistaken, the players’ handbook also tells us about this rule.
kedi 09-08-03, 05:13 AM	a pc can't do anything without a DM; ok so game is all bout pc but DM is in charge and the pc can't make his own decisions
Nightingale 7 09-08-03, 07:20 AM	Dat Big Dragon,you are wrong on one account.The game isn't all about the player achieving his goals.The game is about a group of players AND the DM having fun. The DM isn't duty bound to bend his campaign world every each way so that your LOWLY character cna achieve his oh-so-original goal(becoming a god?COME ON!).Just because my current character has reached high levels and I want to retire him,it doesn't mean I'm going to twist the DM's arm to somehow give me the Seven Sisters as love toys,so I can have something to do in retirement! Why should the DM cater to a player's each and every desire while a simple no from the DM is every time an unfair restriction,solely to spite the player,or because the Dm is too lazy to incorporate your "cool" idea in his campaign? The player and the DM are both equal parts of the game and they should both get equal amount of respect and consideration. Also,if Dat Big Dragon is that player,why does he keep referring to himself in third person?The least he can do is come out so we can have a straight conversation instead of providing "phantom support".
Jack in the Green 09-08-03, 10:08 AM	My standard answer for players who threaten to not play anymore if they don't get their way is "See you next campaign, would you like me to give you an email in a year or so when its ready?" This always works becuase when I say it, I mean it.
Dat' Big Dragon 09-08-03, 07:10 PM	I will admit it. I am the player and I have givin you all of the necessary details for all you posters to make informed decisions about what you say. So now I can begin by also admitting that the game does go both ways. The players are not the only ones that are supposed to have fun, the Dm is as well. I should know, I have been DM campaigns for quite some time. So I know very well that players shouldn't dictate how things are going to be to the Dm. But the DM should realize that it is more than his world and his rules. It is the players character's world as well and they should at least be able to have some say in the way that it works. The DM shouldn't lay the supreme authority speal down until a player is unwilling to comprimise. Now I'm not sayind that if the players want something then you have to send it to them on a silver platter. I'm saying that if a player is adament about a decision and is willing to comprimise to acheive their goal then the Dm should be willing to work with the player to accomplish this feat. And you should know that when I make a character I don't go at it blindly. I think that a character needs depth and goals and dreams. That is what makes them more realistic and funner to play. I'm not saying that everyone should be like this, it is totally up to them, but what is the point of making characters, playing, learning all the rules, reading the books, ect if you can't do something special with the character. And Thrud's last post makes a strong defining point. If you play the game with your friends and you like to play but everytime you don't agree you decide to off each other then people tend to take things too far. It is easy to get caught up in things and lose sight that you are friends and that is more than enough reason to work out the situaltion in a mutually benificial manner. So really, how many of you have made characters that you wish to aspire to become like one of the greats? The mighty El and Symbol may be Ed Greenwood's uber character play toys but they had to start from somewhere too you know. There are many factors surrounding this issue/topic and I stand sttrongly behind the idea of character development, especially if the character is well organized, knows his stuff, and happens to have a lot of thought put behind it. I mean at some point in character careers or development their as to be a goal behind it. The famous dragon slayer, the wandering theif, the cunning mage. The developement has to a little farther than that don't you think? So I decided to aspire to become a diety with this character, something new to me and past character goals. And I get immediatly shot down without a moments thought. How would you feel? Especially if the person shooting you down was your friend. Sure it's no easy undertaking and I definitly realize that I shouldn't get it handed to me easily. That was one of my major reasons for wanting to undertake this particular endeavor. I wanted to face the challenges that would be required of me to acomplish my goal. Knowing that the other players are uninterested in actually developing future plans and goals for their characters during this particular campaign besides their redundant and usual undertakings. I did not expect that I would get it easy and Gnome certainly made the impression in his posts that I expected it at around level 20. Not even! After a statement of, "You could do it but it would take a while. Like around level 40." I responded with, "Duder, I'm not looking for making me instantly become a major diety, I'm looking for something that will get me into the cosmoc politics as a MINOR ranking (somewhee around divine rank 1). Like there's Imhotep whose a level 20 expert that is a MINOR (and I'm talking small) ranking diety. And state the very minor diety abilities that I would gain and I get shot down. So I researched the whole thing for nothing?! There is a reason for all the chapters in the Dieties an Demiods book covering players and divine ascension. I didn't force anybody into doing anything. I simply asked for a few reconsidering from an iron fisted DM who wasn't even willing to read up to see that it isn't all that difficult to run a character with this particular goal. And kedi, I have read many of your posts so I know you think better than "the players can't make their own decisions". The players can. Thats a major beauty of DnD. The actions and choices of the players are what shape the game, character alignment, and and character personality. Players aren't just there to be told to do this and roll the dice and see what happens.
Desies 09-09-03, 07:38 PM	Alright dude, I'm a player and I can understand why you would wanna be a diety. The power you could have is immense (sounds kinda like power gaming to me but we'll put that aside). It's possible to become a god, but you haven't done nearly enough by level 20 to make you diety worthy. I dont think however that you went about it the right way. Threatening the DM with leaving the group and bringing the other players with you is just immature. In fact it reminds me of a player we used to have...he tried to have the DM mold his world around him. If you want to become a diety that's great, but don't be a little baby about it.
James McCulloch 09-24-03, 11:47 PM	IF IT IS THAT IMPORTANT FOR HIM TO BE A GOD, FIND OUT HOW MUCH HE LIKES HIS CHARACTOR THE WAY IT IS. SETUP A SITUATION WHERE HE HAS TO MAKE ALIGNMENT CHANGES (AS FAR AS IM CONCERED IT IS AN EVIL ACT TO HE WANTS TO DO) AND MAKE HIM CHOOSE IF HE WANTS TO BE A GOD OTHER MORE POWERFUL GODS MAY NOT BE HAPPY WITH HIM AND WILL PROBABLY SMITE HIS CHARACTOR JUST FOR BEING SO COCKY.
WraithXIII 09-27-03, 12:28 PM	Originally posted by Dat' Big Dragon I will admit it. I am the player and I have givin you all of the necessary details for all you posters to make informed decisions about what you say. So now I can begin by also admitting that the game does go both ways. The players are not the only ones that are supposed to have fun, the Dm is as well. I should know, I have been DM campaigns for quite some time. So I know very well that players shouldn't dictate how things are going to be to the Dm. But the DM should realize that it is more than his world and his rules. It is the players character's world as well and they should at least be able to have some say in the way that it works. The DM shouldn't lay the supreme authority speal down until a player is unwilling to comprimise. Now I'm not sayind that if the players want something then you have to send it to them on a silver platter. I'm saying that if a player is adament about a decision and is willing to comprimise to acheive their goal then the Dm should be willing to work with the player to accomplish this feat. And you should know that when I make a character I don't go at it blindly. I think that a character needs depth and goals and dreams. That is what makes them more realistic and funner to play. I'm not saying that everyone should be like this, it is totally up to them, but what is the point of making characters, playing, learning all the rules, reading the books, ect if you can't do something special with the character. And Thrud's last post makes a strong defining point. If you play the game with your friends and you like to play but everytime you don't agree you decide to off each other then people tend to take things too far. It is easy to get caught up in things and lose sight that you are friends and that is more than enough reason to work out the situaltion in a mutually benificial manner. So really, how many of you have made characters that you wish to aspire to become like one of the greats? The mighty El and Symbol may be Ed Greenwood's uber character play toys but they had to start from somewhere too you know. There are many factors surrounding this issue/topic and I stand sttrongly behind the idea of character development, especially if the character is well organized, knows his stuff, and happens to have a lot of thought put behind it. I mean at some point in character careers or development their as to be a goal behind it. The famous dragon slayer, the wandering theif, the cunning mage. The developement has to a little farther than that don't you think? So I decided to aspire to become a diety with this character, something new to me and past character goals. And I get immediatly shot down without a moments thought. How would you feel? Especially if the person shooting you down was your friend. Sure it's no easy undertaking and I definitly realize that I shouldn't get it handed to me easily. That was one of my major reasons for wanting to undertake this particular endeavor. I wanted to face the challenges that would be required of me to acomplish my goal. Knowing that the other players are uninterested in actually developing future plans and goals for their characters during this particular campaign besides their redundant and usual undertakings. I did not expect that I would get it easy and Gnome certainly made the impression in his posts that I expected it at around level 20. Not even! After a statement of, "You could do it but it would take a while. Like around level 40." I responded with, "Duder, I'm not looking for making me instantly become a major diety, I'm looking for something that will get me into the cosmoc politics as a MINOR ranking (somewhee around divine rank 1). Like there's Imhotep whose a level 20 expert that is a MINOR (and I'm talking small) ranking diety. And state the very minor diety abilities that I would gain and I get shot down. So I researched the whole thing for nothing?! There is a reason for all the chapters in the Dieties an Demiods book covering players and divine ascension. I didn't force anybody into doing anything. I simply asked for a few reconsidering from an iron fisted DM who wasn't even willing to read up to see that it isn't all that difficult to run a character with this particular goal. And kedi, I have read many of your posts so I know you think better than "the players can't make their own decisions". The players can. Thats a major beauty of DnD. The actions and choices of the players are what shape the game, character alignment, and and character personality. Players aren't just there to be told to do this and roll the dice and see what happens. Man, I have no problem with character advancement at all. I do have a problem with players who bully to get their way. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. I think that you both need to think about what you are saying and how you say it. I have players who are trying to reach divinity and that's great. I'd rather have players who have some sense of where they want their characters to go in life than drift from one fight to the next. But I will off a player in subtle ways if that player is being disruptive in such a degree that it threatens even playing the game. Some players need to be taken down a notch now and again. But after the dust has settled and the player is left thinking 'what do I do now?' I give them a chance to raise their character via another character. I don't do it arbitrarily because I don't like the person. All I can say is that the entire group needs to have a pow-wow and discuss where the game is going. Common sense and cool heads should prevail and there will be no problems. On a side note, if the DM is doing his job, then yes, there is a DM vs. player mentality. The DM should be in the heads of the PC's adversaries. How real is it if your arch enemy pulls all his punches and lets your characters live with every confrontation. I admit, I have been guilty of this and have taken actions to rectify the situation. But there should always be a DM v. PC mentality, but never a DM v. player mentality.
WraithXIII 09-27-03, 12:32 PM	Originally posted by WraithXIII On a side note, if the DM is doing his job, then yes, there is a DM vs. player mentality. I meant to say DM vs. PC mentality, sorry for the typo! :looloo:
Mirtek 09-28-03, 12:04 PM	Originally posted by Dat' Big Dragon Whatever happened to the 300 some-odd pages of rules covering bing a diety without letting them get out of hand? Don't know, but they somehow didn't made it into DDG. DDG has rules how gods work and how deities should/can be used in a campaign. But it says almost nothing about Player Characters as god, it doesn't even give a real way how to ascend, only a few different ideas. It says what a god can do and why he can do it, and shows the stats of a lot of different NPC gods. But it doesn't really help for running a PC as a god
ElGrecoETAC 09-28-03, 12:47 PM	Dat' Big Dragon, I cannot believe that you had to take it to the level of airing your Soap Opera Life on this board. I cry for the bandwidth wasted on this effort. That having been said, here is a bit of friendly, non-insulting advice. It's always great to have plans, ambitions, and dreams for your character. In fact, I hate creating characters that don't have some sort of long-term goal. That having been said, you went straight into overdrive by talking about the supposed apex of the game as opposed to maybe trying to make your DM's life easier by working through his planned campaign (?) first before going into stuff that would largely depart from anything he had planned. Not too many folks have sympathy for "Shake-and-Bake" players who want to whiz through a character to get all the "kewl" powers and arm-wrestle Hercules. I'm not saying that you're that sort of guy, but that's the perception you're risking. In D&D, the reality is compromise. Your DM pal wants to enjoy the game as you and your other friends do. He has the additional burden of refereeing the game. His major enjoyment is the satisfaction of seeing a succesful campaign unfold--storyline development, your characters' advancement, etc. Your inquiries may seem completely innocent in your mind. You want to explore another facet of the game, want to make your mark with a character, are wowed by all the cool stuff you saw in the ELH and Deities & Demigods, whatever. He's likely to just see this as a "Come on, let's get to the good stuff" attitude that spells out "I don't care what you want to do or how hard you've been working at it, 'cause I want something else." Add to this past drama, a-la the "Mom interfering" stories, partisan politics among gaming friends, and you can see how tempers will flare. In parting, I recommend you explore the possibility of creating a character you think will like, map out a SHORT TERM path you'd like him to follow, and talk to your DM buddy about whether this would create too much conflict. I think you will find that, 9 times out of 10, if you're not asking to play a Drow Samurai or a Half-Dragon/Half-Celestial Paladin things will generally work out. Then, let your character actually grow through the course of the campaign. You might find that the way he turns out makes him/her "live and breathe" in a way better than you expected he would with a "planned parenthood" step-by-pre-planned-step approach. If things are not working for another reason, talk with your DM. Best of all, wait a couple of months and ask to call a meeting with everyone else, so you can talk about it in an open forum. Resolve things democratically. If your friends don't want to just skip into an Epic campaign, you may be screwed. But if that's the cake they want as well, be prepared to take over the reins. Don't ever, though, try to blackmail people. That is the low of low, amigo, and I'm not accusing you... simply drawing advice from what I have seen in other groups. Coming to these forums for advice is one thing. Having a "he said, he said" spat with one of your buds here is no good. Now, you have to wonder whether anyone that saw you and BITING-GNOME on this thread will be able to converse with you seriously. If you ask someone a question next time, are they gonna try to help, or just say "It's that guy again..." :rolleyes: Talk to your friends and figure out what you want to do, and I hope all works out for your group.
Nightingale 7 09-28-03, 01:28 PM	I would also like to ask DatBigDragon if he is virtually assured that he will reach demigod-hood.Have you made an agreement with your DM that you won't die from a stray arrow,spell,or dragonbreath while trying to reach your goal? Bad things happen to PC's all the time.Once I had made a sun elf bladesinger for a FR campaign.I had plans for this character,and his biggest aspiration was to be the first sun elf to be accepted as a moonblade wielder.Unfortunately,when he was a mere 2nd level elven fighter he met the wrong end of an orcish axe,and died.He never had the chance to accomplish his goals,and the dwarven war-cleric of Clangeddin that succeeded him(my next PC) had vastly different goals and the elf was forgotten. Life isn't fair.You can't always accomplish what you set out to and the same should be true in D&D too Also,why do you think that becoming a lesser god requires less than 40 levels?Even the lowest deities have AT LEAST 40 levels in various classes.