Trade in the Realms! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Trade in the Realms! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Harlamond
09-17-03, 01:23 AM Trade
The lifeblood of Faerun, trade ties together lands and peoples who might otherwise meet only as enemies or not at all, depending on the distance between them. Elven woodcarvings fetch handsome prices in the most expensive stores of Waterdeep, while bolts of good Dalelands linen are carried as far south as the Lake of Steam. Even the fierce goblin tribes of the Cloven Mountains trade coal, iron, and quarried stone to the human lands of the Vilhon Reach.

FRCS; page: 90

So I guess my questions are how do you handle trade in your campaigns to make it come alive and take on a role with in the game?

How do you handle the Trade Routes and Resources in the FRCS page; 88-89, for example: Your players unload there hard earned gold by investing it into a caravan full of rugs from Amn then traveling to the Western Heartlands where there’s a demand for Amnin(?) rugs. What kind of discount would you give for traders who buy their goods where they’re produced and how much would they go for where there’s a demand for the product?

Also has any one added any thing of interest that would put a little more flare into the realms such as other trade goods that are not listed in the Players Handbook Cormyrian chocolate, Tethyr Tea, Chessentan Lobsters or any thing else for that matter and what kind of prices did you attach to them?
Purple Dragon Knight
09-17-03, 03:49 AM In my campaign, here's how I implement trade on a PC level:

Some Craft and Profession skills will yield a different income depending on their rarity within Cormyr (or throughout any region the characters might be). I use the law of supply and demand when determining this. As a rule of thumb (but not always), if you pick a Craft skill that is widespread within Cormyr, the value of your products will be less than the normal PHB amount. However, when you become good enough to produce masterwork items, they will be worth more, as they will be considered a signature export for the country. For Profession skills that are widespread within Cormyr, same thing: at first your career will yield a lower income since there is a large body of workforce available in your domain of expertise. However, should you elect to steadily increase the number of ranks in that Profession, you will be recognised as a true master of your chosen field and you will attract the attention of individuals carrying slightly larger belt pouches, as well as many apprentice wannabes petitioning for your tutelage... Of course, the reverse applies: rare Craft and Profession skills will yield more gold pieces than usual at first, but becoming a master in these will unlikely bring you more fame and fortune (For example, once everyone knows that Ratlager Bottle-Bottoms has ranks in "Craft: Spectacles", they will surely go to him when they start having problems reading, and since he's the only one in town who can make spectacles, he'll command a higher price than the PHB. However, if he becomes a master at doing this, it is unlikely that people will want to pay more for his goods. If he'd be from a country where spectacle-makers are common, like Lantan, he could then sell his "masterwork" stuff abroad for a higher price since they would be marketed from "Lantan, the fabled land of gnomes and goggles…"

As for trade, here's an example related to Cormyr and Sembia's signature export products:

Trade:
§ Cormyr products:
o Less expensive: (than PHB; material cost: 75% of normal value -- final market value: 75% of normal value -- Masterwork items: 95% of normal value)
§ Armor EXPORT SIGNATURE ITEM (in High Forest, worth: 125% x normal - 200% x MW)
§ Clothing EXPORT SIGNATURE ITEM (in Dalelands, worth: 125% x normal - 200% x MW)
§ Weapons
§ Woodworks
§ Coal
§ Grain
§ Sembia products:
o Less expensive: (than PHB; material cost: 75% of normal value -- final market value: 75% of normal value -- Masterwork items: 95% of normal value)
§ Books EXPORT SIGNATURE ITEM (in Dalelands, worth: 125% x normal - 200% x MW)
Example for someone with bookbinding skill: (material cost always 75% x normal cost)
· His books are at 75% x normal price in Sembia
· 125% x normal price in Dalelands
· Normal price anywhere else
The same bookbinder’s MW books: (material cost always 75% x MW cost)
· 95% x normal price in Sembia
· 200% x normal price in Dalelands
· Normal price anywhere else
§ Weapons SIGNATURE ITEM (in Dalelands, worth: 125% x normal - 200% x MW)
§ Trade Goods
§ Silk
§ Pottery
§ Grain
§ Wine
§ Livestock
theorcrist
09-17-03, 02:26 PM that is a good explanation of specific trade and craft, PDK, however i believe that the question was asking how trade operates as a bigger picture. I usually use made up merchant companies, related to guilds as extracted from Expeditious Retreat Press' Magical Medieval Society: Western europe. This book covers much information about guilds but not really guild and trade war. there would be much trade wars (some violent some bloodless) going on all around the forgotten realms. some companies pulling strings with nobles for exclusive rights to routes and operating land, others make deals with thieves guilds to fix prices and make it so that there is a monopoly. I would like to know more on trade wars and common tactical moves, if anyone knows anything let me kown.
Faraer
09-17-03, 02:30 PM Trade is a big subject that Ed has wanted to detail in print for years, but isn't hack & slash enough to sell to the money people. Of his boxes of merchant lore, scattered bits have made it into print, and the novel Hand of Fire illustrates brightly what travelling in a merchant caravan is like. More insight is in some of Ed's posts to REALMS-L.

Another illuminating source is "The Adventures of Volo: The Great Goblet" (Dragon #271) which describes a mercantile secret society based in Scornubel and illustrates how you can spin such local intrigues.
Lashan
09-18-03, 10:34 AM I would say that you could possibly buy products at 60% off the listed price of an item. That, though, is the best possible price available. Most will not get such a lucrative trade deal. Most of the deals would be about 80% of the listed price.

The best place to go would be places where the commodity isn't around. You could charge up to 120% of the listed price. That would command a decent profit on them, though usually requires you doing most of the leg work. I am sure that you could sell to local retailers for the listed price of items. Less work. You just need to get the goods from one place to another, but for less profit.

As for getting things from one place to another, you have several options. There are caravan companies and then there are groups of merchants that band together for a short time. Caravan companies have their own guards and trade routes they go. One could just pay them to ship something somewhere. You wouldn't even need to be on the caravan. This is the most expensive route. Many independant merchants get together and decide to pool their resources for caravan guards and all. If a merchant travelled on his own, he could only afford 1 or 2 guards. You get a few of these independant merchants and then you can afford 10-20 guards! A much safer idea.

With this in mind, one still has to organize the caravan. There are the guards to pay for. I've heard different ideas. A few old modules say that these guys can earn 1sp a day and room and board. That is usually lower then the 2sp a day for a common laberor. I think I would raise that to about 5sp/day or even up to 1/gp a day per guard (depending on skill). Then there is food for them. Also, if you are trying to organize caravans, you can always pay specialized merchants who organize all the guards and different caravans, wagons, and food for you. They charge a fee, though. I'm not sure what they would charge, but it wouldn't be too much (or people would just do it themselves).

Oh, the hurricane is coming. I need to leave work. Sorry, but I can't finish more on this!
Archade
09-19-03, 11:41 AM If you are looking to do trade in your campaign, I'd recommend picking up a product from Columbia Games called Pilot's Almanac.

From a crunch standpoint, it's got detailed trading rules without getting into rhutebegas and bolts of cloth. All you need to do to tweak it to D&D and FR is assign a market size value for each settlement, and then make a Profession (merchant) or Diplomacy check to determine the volume and cost of "trade lots" purchased, and then do it again to find out the demand and value of "trade lots" sold.

From a fluff standpoint, it's got all sorts of details on the professions of Shipwright, Merchant, Seaman, and beautiful maps of Columbia Games' world, Harn.

IMO, of course
Lashan
09-20-03, 06:41 PM I will see about picking up a copy of that.

thanks for the info.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harlamond 09-17-03, 01:23 AM	Trade The lifeblood of Faerun, trade ties together lands and peoples who might otherwise meet only as enemies or not at all, depending on the distance between them. Elven woodcarvings fetch handsome prices in the most expensive stores of Waterdeep, while bolts of good Dalelands linen are carried as far south as the Lake of Steam. Even the fierce goblin tribes of the Cloven Mountains trade coal, iron, and quarried stone to the human lands of the Vilhon Reach. FRCS; page: 90 So I guess my questions are how do you handle trade in your campaigns to make it come alive and take on a role with in the game? How do you handle the Trade Routes and Resources in the FRCS page; 88-89, for example: Your players unload there hard earned gold by investing it into a caravan full of rugs from Amn then traveling to the Western Heartlands where there’s a demand for Amnin(?) rugs. What kind of discount would you give for traders who buy their goods where they’re produced and how much would they go for where there’s a demand for the product? Also has any one added any thing of interest that would put a little more flare into the realms such as other trade goods that are not listed in the Players Handbook Cormyrian chocolate, Tethyr Tea, Chessentan Lobsters or any thing else for that matter and what kind of prices did you attach to them?
Purple Dragon Knight 09-17-03, 03:49 AM	In my campaign, here's how I implement trade on a PC level: Some Craft and Profession skills will yield a different income depending on their rarity within Cormyr (or throughout any region the characters might be). I use the law of supply and demand when determining this. As a rule of thumb (but not always), if you pick a Craft skill that is widespread within Cormyr, the value of your products will be less than the normal PHB amount. However, when you become good enough to produce masterwork items, they will be worth more, as they will be considered a signature export for the country. For Profession skills that are widespread within Cormyr, same thing: at first your career will yield a lower income since there is a large body of workforce available in your domain of expertise. However, should you elect to steadily increase the number of ranks in that Profession, you will be recognised as a true master of your chosen field and you will attract the attention of individuals carrying slightly larger belt pouches, as well as many apprentice wannabes petitioning for your tutelage... Of course, the reverse applies: rare Craft and Profession skills will yield more gold pieces than usual at first, but becoming a master in these will unlikely bring you more fame and fortune (For example, once everyone knows that Ratlager Bottle-Bottoms has ranks in "Craft: Spectacles", they will surely go to him when they start having problems reading, and since he's the only one in town who can make spectacles, he'll command a higher price than the PHB. However, if he becomes a master at doing this, it is unlikely that people will want to pay more for his goods. If he'd be from a country where spectacle-makers are common, like Lantan, he could then sell his "masterwork" stuff abroad for a higher price since they would be marketed from "Lantan, the fabled land of gnomes and goggles…" As for trade, here's an example related to Cormyr and Sembia's signature export products: Trade: § Cormyr products: o Less expensive: (than PHB; material cost: 75% of normal value -- final market value: 75% of normal value -- Masterwork items: 95% of normal value) § Armor EXPORT SIGNATURE ITEM (in High Forest, worth: 125% x normal - 200% x MW) § Clothing EXPORT SIGNATURE ITEM (in Dalelands, worth: 125% x normal - 200% x MW) § Weapons § Woodworks § Coal § Grain § Sembia products: o Less expensive: (than PHB; material cost: 75% of normal value -- final market value: 75% of normal value -- Masterwork items: 95% of normal value) § Books EXPORT SIGNATURE ITEM (in Dalelands, worth: 125% x normal - 200% x MW) Example for someone with bookbinding skill: (material cost always 75% x normal cost) · His books are at 75% x normal price in Sembia · 125% x normal price in Dalelands · Normal price anywhere else The same bookbinder’s MW books: (material cost always 75% x MW cost) · 95% x normal price in Sembia · 200% x normal price in Dalelands · Normal price anywhere else § Weapons SIGNATURE ITEM (in Dalelands, worth: 125% x normal - 200% x MW) § Trade Goods § Silk § Pottery § Grain § Wine § Livestock
theorcrist 09-17-03, 02:26 PM	that is a good explanation of specific trade and craft, PDK, however i believe that the question was asking how trade operates as a bigger picture. I usually use made up merchant companies, related to guilds as extracted from Expeditious Retreat Press' Magical Medieval Society: Western europe. This book covers much information about guilds but not really guild and trade war. there would be much trade wars (some violent some bloodless) going on all around the forgotten realms. some companies pulling strings with nobles for exclusive rights to routes and operating land, others make deals with thieves guilds to fix prices and make it so that there is a monopoly. I would like to know more on trade wars and common tactical moves, if anyone knows anything let me kown.
Faraer 09-17-03, 02:30 PM	Trade is a big subject that Ed has wanted to detail in print for years, but isn't hack & slash enough to sell to the money people. Of his boxes of merchant lore, scattered bits have made it into print, and the novel Hand of Fire illustrates brightly what travelling in a merchant caravan is like. More insight is in some of Ed's posts to REALMS-L. Another illuminating source is "The Adventures of Volo: The Great Goblet" (Dragon #271) which describes a mercantile secret society based in Scornubel and illustrates how you can spin such local intrigues.
Lashan 09-18-03, 10:34 AM	I would say that you could possibly buy products at 60% off the listed price of an item. That, though, is the best possible price available. Most will not get such a lucrative trade deal. Most of the deals would be about 80% of the listed price. The best place to go would be places where the commodity isn't around. You could charge up to 120% of the listed price. That would command a decent profit on them, though usually requires you doing most of the leg work. I am sure that you could sell to local retailers for the listed price of items. Less work. You just need to get the goods from one place to another, but for less profit. As for getting things from one place to another, you have several options. There are caravan companies and then there are groups of merchants that band together for a short time. Caravan companies have their own guards and trade routes they go. One could just pay them to ship something somewhere. You wouldn't even need to be on the caravan. This is the most expensive route. Many independant merchants get together and decide to pool their resources for caravan guards and all. If a merchant travelled on his own, he could only afford 1 or 2 guards. You get a few of these independant merchants and then you can afford 10-20 guards! A much safer idea. With this in mind, one still has to organize the caravan. There are the guards to pay for. I've heard different ideas. A few old modules say that these guys can earn 1sp a day and room and board. That is usually lower then the 2sp a day for a common laberor. I think I would raise that to about 5sp/day or even up to 1/gp a day per guard (depending on skill). Then there is food for them. Also, if you are trying to organize caravans, you can always pay specialized merchants who organize all the guards and different caravans, wagons, and food for you. They charge a fee, though. I'm not sure what they would charge, but it wouldn't be too much (or people would just do it themselves). Oh, the hurricane is coming. I need to leave work. Sorry, but I can't finish more on this!
Archade 09-19-03, 11:41 AM	If you are looking to do trade in your campaign, I'd recommend picking up a product from Columbia Games called Pilot's Almanac. From a crunch standpoint, it's got detailed trading rules without getting into rhutebegas and bolts of cloth. All you need to do to tweak it to D&D and FR is assign a market size value for each settlement, and then make a Profession (merchant) or Diplomacy check to determine the volume and cost of "trade lots" purchased, and then do it again to find out the demand and value of "trade lots" sold. From a fluff standpoint, it's got all sorts of details on the professions of Shipwright, Merchant, Seaman, and beautiful maps of Columbia Games' world, Harn. IMO, of course
Lashan 09-20-03, 06:41 PM	I will see about picking up a copy of that. thanks for the info.