Underdark: First Impressions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Underdark: First Impressions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Herr Doktor
10-26-03, 09:59 PM I just got Underdark, I haven't really got a chance to flip through it but I thought starting this thread and having things to consider when I actually have a better idea of where things are in the book would be good.

Why not share your first impressions (or if you've started and underdark campaign, your first sessions/encounters)?

Something I noticed immediately when I flipped to the racial artwork (I was not impressed by the Unapproachable East racial art... To say the least) was that I entirely love that artist! I believe he/she did work for the Icewind Dale games as well. Does anyone know his name?

I'd like to see more of his artwork in game products!
Straploknight
10-27-03, 01:04 AM I like it

the Deep Imaskari don't seem to have made the impression they were looking for. I dont see a flood of post on them.

Wish they could have touched on a few more dwarven races (derro and undrinnir)

Whats up with the stat prereq on drow inate abilities?

The drow come in more colors now.

Some spells seem a touch on the powerful side (but not having an affinity for spell-casting PC's I cant really say)

Nice to have other area's fleshed out in the underdark.

Glad they left the wall dwellings in Ched Nasad intact. I knew those silly calcified webs would be their down fall (no pun intended)

Whats up with Brittany and Madonna?

Nice art, really like the drow.

O'oult or whatever the Beholder city is called ~ hehe.

Kuo-toa ~ sweet
Link182
10-27-03, 02:19 AM I like it alot. However, the xornmovement property of magic armor specifies it acts as the Xorn Movement spell in chapter 4. There is no Xorn Movement spell in chapter 4.
Kuje31
10-27-03, 03:00 AM Originally posted by Link182
I like it alot. However, the xornmovement property of magic armor specifies it acts as the Xorn Movement spell in chapter 4. There is no Xorn Movement spell in chapter 4.

Evidently that spell is in the Manual of the Planes. :). Check my Errata thread that is down the boards a bit. :)
Acererak
10-27-03, 11:54 AM Originally posted by Straploknight
the Deep Imaskari don't seem to have made the impression they were looking for. I dont see a flood of post on them.

I think that's because they have a limited appeal. As I was reading over the entry for the deep Imaskari I kept saying to myself "Wow, this is so cool, but how am I going to use these guys in my CotSQ campaign?"
Link182
10-27-03, 11:25 PM I think the stuff in Underdark would be tough to integrate without a campaign set there.
Yokinobu
10-27-03, 11:59 PM I don't know if I got a messed up copy or if there is something else I'm missing out on, but in my Underdark book, the artworks titled Derro Ambush, Feats, and Ootul presented in the Artwork section of the Wizard's D&D site don't seem to be in my book. Some sort of misprint, or maybe the editors decided to cut them?
Desies
10-28-03, 12:35 AM I don't own the book but I bought it for my DM (he owes me) so I got to look in it. I had 2 immediate reactions: 1)The druegar picture really sucks! and 2)Where are the orogs?

What are these deep imaskari? I didn't see them.
bogotter
10-28-03, 08:43 PM Would you recommend this book for someone who doesn't play in FR and does not use Drow at all? Basically I'm interested in some of the Underark flavor that could port to a Homebrew....but most of Drow specific stuff would be wasted as Drow don't exist in my world.

Thoughts?
Herr Doktor
10-28-03, 09:53 PM The book tried to not focus entirely on the drow aspect of the underdark, but most of the new stuff is based on Forgotten Realms history, and some of the Feats are repeats from the 3.5 PHB.

I don't know if it really has much to offer to you, or your campaign. You could probably use the races, and the node magic, if you wanted to.
Harlamond
10-28-03, 10:30 PM I liked the different layers of the underdark lower, middle and upper the survival checks for each area keep going up the further you go down I’m still milling through the geography of the underdark and I must say I like it so far now the hard part would be to incorporate some of the stuff in the book of give my surface character enough reason to use it or to descend into the darkest depths of the underdark.
All in all if I use it or not I’m glad I made the purchase just for all the new lore at my fingertips because I’m a closet case FR junky and I eat this stuff up.
Derulbaskul
10-28-03, 11:17 PM It was good but I think it that the opportunity should have been taken to properly describe the time and consequences of the Silence of Lolth.

Yes, I realise that the novel series is still going but drow are very popular and to publish a supplement on the Underdark without detailing one of the most major current events affecting the drow is not good design, IMO.
Desies
10-28-03, 11:26 PM I restate...What are the deep imaskari?
DarkWalker
10-28-03, 11:41 PM Originally posted by Desies
I restate...What are the deep imaskari?

Look here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b).
Harlamond
10-28-03, 11:43 PM The Deep Imaskari are the former residents of the ancient Imaskari Empire that was a great wizard kingdom that was around the same time Netheril was around. The impression I got was that the Deep Imaskari is to the underdark as the Shades are to the surface world.
Harlamond
10-28-03, 11:44 PM Originally posted by DarkWalker
Look here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b).

Dang you beat me to it. ;)
Kuje31
10-28-03, 11:47 PM Originally posted by Derulbaskul
It was good but I think it that the opportunity should have been taken to properly describe the time and consequences of the Silence of Lolth.

Yes, I realise that the novel series is still going but drow are very popular and to publish a supplement on the Underdark without detailing one of the most major current events affecting the drow is not good design, IMO.

Well there are some passages in Underdark that are detailed about the silence. I recall one place being destroyed (not Chad Nessad) , and was taken over by a a cleric? of Kiarensiee (sp? Yes I can't spell that name), plus other bits and pieces of the silence.

Also the Player's Guide is supposed to have more info on this.....
Derulbaskul
10-29-03, 03:38 AM Originally posted by Kuje31
Well there are some passages in Underdark that are detailed about the silence. I recall one place being destroyed (not Ched Nasad) , and was taken over by a a cleric? of Kiaransalee , plus other bits and pieces of the silence.

Yes, but not the overall duration or consequences. Sure, some more may be revealed in the Player's Guide... but this is likely to be the final FR book on the Underdark and seems to be the logical place to document this rather major Underdark event, yes?

Of course, I should also add, in order to properly declare my biases, that the whole Silence of Lolth thing was a poor business decision from an RPG perspective (novels are different).

Most D&D players and DMs want drow that worship the Spider Queen. CotSQ failed as a product, IMO, because it did not cater to the traditional view of drow. Of course, the fact that it was released at more or less the same time as a geographic supplement, The Silver Marches, that had NOTHING to do with the location or events of the module was also a really, really, REALLY silly business decision which has left we the consumer with the unfortunate consequence of there being no more FR modules.

But, I digress....

DISCLAIMER:
The above post is purely a statement of my own personal opinion and therefore it may or may not be correct. It is not an invitation to flame me if you disagree; however, it is an invitation to put forth an alternative point of view... or even to agree! ;)
kgiggles
10-29-03, 11:32 AM I liked the Underdark supplement for the most part. I do agree that it`s a little weird that they didn`t really talk about the whole Lolth situation, but what do I know...maybe there was a good reason. But overall I thought it was a pretty cool book......I do think that they kinda skimmed over certain things while other things where given in great detail. The new monsters are really cool and I enjoyed the section on the races, especially the old school races. Would have been nice if they actually did something in the book on beholders instead of just casually mentioning them. I`d give it a 7 out of 10.:behold: 9 out of 10 if they did some more with Beholders.
Alisttair
10-29-03, 11:50 AM It hit me great at first. The geography and all that general underdark info was all AWESOME. I love the Underdark world map and the abysses and all that good stuff.

Originally posted by Acererak
I think that's because they have a limited appeal. As I was reading over the entry for the deep Imaskari I kept saying to myself "Wow, this is so cool, but how am I going to use these guys in my CotSQ campaign?"

Personally, when I read the stuff about the Deep Imaskari, I got a pretty good idea on how to use them. I thought that it would be good to have an NPC one join the party and his quest would be to retrieve a certain item that the PCs would help (or think are being helped) to get, and when he gets it he must go back with his memory reintact and the PCs could maybe find some way to follow him and reach his home (somehow it could be done if the DM wants to).
Doran Kess
10-29-03, 03:34 PM As a slight deviation.....
Does anyone think that the Dungeon magazine adventure from a couple of years ago (Queen of the Demonweb pits, or Into the Demonweb Pits.. or something like that) has any relation at all to the present silence of Lolth?

Oh, and yes, I think that the whole decision to stop producing Uber-adventures or modules is not so smart. I miss them already. (Played RttToEE year it came out then CotSQ the next and loved them both). Although the aforementioned Dungeon magazine does give a REALLY good bang for the buck.
Kuje31
10-29-03, 03:43 PM Originally posted by Doran Kess
As a slight deviation.....
Does anyone think that the Dungeon magazine adventure from a couple of years ago (Queen of the Demonweb pits, or Into the Demonweb Pits.. or something like that) has any relation at all to the present silence of Lolth?

Doubtful, since FR's Lloth is not Greyhawk's Lloth any more, since FR is not part of the Great Ring/Wheel any longer. Fr's planes are now seperate and any thing that happens in Greyhawk does not happen in FR and vice versa.....
Yokinobu
10-29-03, 04:15 PM Something else I noticed, besides the missing artwork, was that on pg 179, Throrgar, the shriekng abyss is noted to have planar connections with a layer of Pandemonium. However on page 257 in the FRCS, the cosmology presented possesses no such plane. I wonder what excuse there might be for such confusion.
WotC_RichBaker
10-29-03, 04:26 PM The principal excuse is that I was a knucklehead, and should have said The Supreme Throne instead. (It's the most Pandemonium-like plane of the FR cosmology.)

Originally posted by Yokinobu
Something else I noticed, besides the missing artwork, was that on pg 179, Throrgar, the shriekng abyss is noted to have planar connections with a layer of Pandemonium. However on page 257 in the FRCS, the cosmology presented possesses no such plane. I wonder what excuse there might be for such confusion.
Herr Doktor
10-29-03, 06:48 PM Originally posted by Richard Baker
The principal excuse is that I was a knucklehead, and should have said The Supreme Throne instead. (It's the most Pandemonium-like plane of the FR cosmology.) Knucklehead!

I was actually hoping that the expanded comology stuff in the player's guide would reconnect the Great Wheel to the Realms.
nekrolog
10-29-03, 09:19 PM Originally posted by DarkWalker
Look here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b).

Wouldn't the Deep Imaskari have existed long before the Netherese empire if they created the phaerimm? As I understood it, the phaerimm and sharn were around the first inhabitants of Toril.

*edit: whoops, was trying to quote this:

The Deep Imaskari are the former residents of the ancient Imaskari Empire that was a great wizard kingdom that was around the same time Netheril was around. The impression I got was that the Deep Imaskari is to the underdark as the Shades are to the surface world.
Gellion
10-29-03, 10:28 PM Originally posted by nekrolog
Wouldn't the Deep Imaskari have existed long before the Netherese empire if they created the phaerimm? As I understood it, the phaerimm and sharn were around the first inhabitants of Toril.

I believe it was the Imaskari who created the Phaerimm.
Endur_Stonehelm
10-30-03, 03:07 PM The book has a great geography section and descriptions of the lower dark, the middle dark, and upper dark. The best part of the book for me.

I like the earth nodes, and hope future FRCS books have Air, Fire, and Water nodes as well.

The new monsters, PRCs, feats, items, and spells are blah.

As a seperate issue, I'm really burned out on new PRCs and consider them a waste of money in a book. In a module, I convert any PRC npc into a standard npc. Its not so much that I think PRCs are unbalanced (the DMG prcs are pretty well balanced), but I just don't want to play a game with 1000+ different classes with all sorts of different rules for each class.
Desies
10-30-03, 07:22 PM That is exactly what prestige classes are for. There are tons of oppotunities for your character in this way, however you must reach a level above and beyond the normal person in order to qualify! Basically it is a way to justify a lot of the things that characters in books are capable of doing that normal classes don't offer.
johnnype
10-31-03, 01:49 PM I'm really enjoying the book. The new races are perhaps my favorite part. The Deep Imaskari especially. Anyone see the levels of the leaders of Deep Imaskar? They're insane!

I really like the fact that the writers didn't shy away from using psionics where apropriate. Thank you, thank you, thankyou!

I even enjoyed the web enhancement. There are a couple of great NPC's that take advantage of the PrC's and races presented in the book, although no Imiskari :(

Now all I have to do is figure out the best way to incorporate all of this great new material into CotSQ...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Herr Doktor 10-26-03, 09:59 PM	I just got Underdark, I haven't really got a chance to flip through it but I thought starting this thread and having things to consider when I actually have a better idea of where things are in the book would be good. Why not share your first impressions (or if you've started and underdark campaign, your first sessions/encounters)? Something I noticed immediately when I flipped to the racial artwork (I was not impressed by the Unapproachable East racial art... To say the least) was that I entirely love that artist! I believe he/she did work for the Icewind Dale games as well. Does anyone know his name? I'd like to see more of his artwork in game products!
Straploknight 10-27-03, 01:04 AM	I like it the Deep Imaskari don't seem to have made the impression they were looking for. I dont see a flood of post on them. Wish they could have touched on a few more dwarven races (derro and undrinnir) Whats up with the stat prereq on drow inate abilities? The drow come in more colors now. Some spells seem a touch on the powerful side (but not having an affinity for spell-casting PC's I cant really say) Nice to have other area's fleshed out in the underdark. Glad they left the wall dwellings in Ched Nasad intact. I knew those silly calcified webs would be their down fall (no pun intended) Whats up with Brittany and Madonna? Nice art, really like the drow. O'oult or whatever the Beholder city is called ~ hehe. Kuo-toa ~ sweet
Link182 10-27-03, 02:19 AM	I like it alot. However, the xornmovement property of magic armor specifies it acts as the Xorn Movement spell in chapter 4. There is no Xorn Movement spell in chapter 4.
Kuje31 10-27-03, 03:00 AM	Originally posted by Link182 I like it alot. However, the xornmovement property of magic armor specifies it acts as the Xorn Movement spell in chapter 4. There is no Xorn Movement spell in chapter 4. Evidently that spell is in the Manual of the Planes. :). Check my Errata thread that is down the boards a bit. :)
Acererak 10-27-03, 11:54 AM	Originally posted by Straploknight the Deep Imaskari don't seem to have made the impression they were looking for. I dont see a flood of post on them. I think that's because they have a limited appeal. As I was reading over the entry for the deep Imaskari I kept saying to myself "Wow, this is so cool, but how am I going to use these guys in my CotSQ campaign?"
Link182 10-27-03, 11:25 PM	I think the stuff in Underdark would be tough to integrate without a campaign set there.
Yokinobu 10-27-03, 11:59 PM	I don't know if I got a messed up copy or if there is something else I'm missing out on, but in my Underdark book, the artworks titled Derro Ambush, Feats, and Ootul presented in the Artwork section of the Wizard's D&D site don't seem to be in my book. Some sort of misprint, or maybe the editors decided to cut them?
Desies 10-28-03, 12:35 AM	I don't own the book but I bought it for my DM (he owes me) so I got to look in it. I had 2 immediate reactions: 1)The druegar picture really sucks! and 2)Where are the orogs? What are these deep imaskari? I didn't see them.
bogotter 10-28-03, 08:43 PM	Would you recommend this book for someone who doesn't play in FR and does not use Drow at all? Basically I'm interested in some of the Underark flavor that could port to a Homebrew....but most of Drow specific stuff would be wasted as Drow don't exist in my world. Thoughts?
Herr Doktor 10-28-03, 09:53 PM	The book tried to not focus entirely on the drow aspect of the underdark, but most of the new stuff is based on Forgotten Realms history, and some of the Feats are repeats from the 3.5 PHB. I don't know if it really has much to offer to you, or your campaign. You could probably use the races, and the node magic, if you wanted to.
Harlamond 10-28-03, 10:30 PM	I liked the different layers of the underdark lower, middle and upper the survival checks for each area keep going up the further you go down I’m still milling through the geography of the underdark and I must say I like it so far now the hard part would be to incorporate some of the stuff in the book of give my surface character enough reason to use it or to descend into the darkest depths of the underdark. All in all if I use it or not I’m glad I made the purchase just for all the new lore at my fingertips because I’m a closet case FR junky and I eat this stuff up.
Derulbaskul 10-28-03, 11:17 PM	It was good but I think it that the opportunity should have been taken to properly describe the time and consequences of the Silence of Lolth. Yes, I realise that the novel series is still going but drow are very popular and to publish a supplement on the Underdark without detailing one of the most major current events affecting the drow is not good design, IMO.
Desies 10-28-03, 11:26 PM	I restate...What are the deep imaskari?
DarkWalker 10-28-03, 11:41 PM	Originally posted by Desies I restate...What are the deep imaskari? Look here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b).
Harlamond 10-28-03, 11:43 PM	The Deep Imaskari are the former residents of the ancient Imaskari Empire that was a great wizard kingdom that was around the same time Netheril was around. The impression I got was that the Deep Imaskari is to the underdark as the Shades are to the surface world.
Harlamond 10-28-03, 11:44 PM	Originally posted by DarkWalker Look here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b). Dang you beat me to it. ;)
Kuje31 10-28-03, 11:47 PM	Originally posted by Derulbaskul It was good but I think it that the opportunity should have been taken to properly describe the time and consequences of the Silence of Lolth. Yes, I realise that the novel series is still going but drow are very popular and to publish a supplement on the Underdark without detailing one of the most major current events affecting the drow is not good design, IMO. Well there are some passages in Underdark that are detailed about the silence. I recall one place being destroyed (not Chad Nessad) , and was taken over by a a cleric? of Kiarensiee (sp? Yes I can't spell that name), plus other bits and pieces of the silence. Also the Player's Guide is supposed to have more info on this.....
Derulbaskul 10-29-03, 03:38 AM	Originally posted by Kuje31 Well there are some passages in Underdark that are detailed about the silence. I recall one place being destroyed (not Ched Nasad) , and was taken over by a a cleric? of Kiaransalee , plus other bits and pieces of the silence. Yes, but not the overall duration or consequences. Sure, some more may be revealed in the Player's Guide... but this is likely to be the final FR book on the Underdark and seems to be the logical place to document this rather major Underdark event, yes? Of course, I should also add, in order to properly declare my biases, that the whole Silence of Lolth thing was a poor business decision from an RPG perspective (novels are different). Most D&D players and DMs want drow that worship the Spider Queen. CotSQ failed as a product, IMO, because it did not cater to the traditional view of drow. Of course, the fact that it was released at more or less the same time as a geographic supplement, The Silver Marches, that had NOTHING to do with the location or events of the module was also a really, really, REALLY silly business decision which has left we the consumer with the unfortunate consequence of there being no more FR modules. But, I digress.... DISCLAIMER: The above post is purely a statement of my own personal opinion and therefore it may or may not be correct. It is not an invitation to flame me if you disagree; however, it is an invitation to put forth an alternative point of view... or even to agree! ;)
kgiggles 10-29-03, 11:32 AM	I liked the Underdark supplement for the most part. I do agree that it`s a little weird that they didn`t really talk about the whole Lolth situation, but what do I know...maybe there was a good reason. But overall I thought it was a pretty cool book......I do think that they kinda skimmed over certain things while other things where given in great detail. The new monsters are really cool and I enjoyed the section on the races, especially the old school races. Would have been nice if they actually did something in the book on beholders instead of just casually mentioning them. I`d give it a 7 out of 10.:behold: 9 out of 10 if they did some more with Beholders.
Alisttair 10-29-03, 11:50 AM	It hit me great at first. The geography and all that general underdark info was all AWESOME. I love the Underdark world map and the abysses and all that good stuff. Originally posted by Acererak I think that's because they have a limited appeal. As I was reading over the entry for the deep Imaskari I kept saying to myself "Wow, this is so cool, but how am I going to use these guys in my CotSQ campaign?" Personally, when I read the stuff about the Deep Imaskari, I got a pretty good idea on how to use them. I thought that it would be good to have an NPC one join the party and his quest would be to retrieve a certain item that the PCs would help (or think are being helped) to get, and when he gets it he must go back with his memory reintact and the PCs could maybe find some way to follow him and reach his home (somehow it could be done if the DM wants to).
Doran Kess 10-29-03, 03:34 PM	As a slight deviation..... Does anyone think that the Dungeon magazine adventure from a couple of years ago (Queen of the Demonweb pits, or Into the Demonweb Pits.. or something like that) has any relation at all to the present silence of Lolth? Oh, and yes, I think that the whole decision to stop producing Uber-adventures or modules is not so smart. I miss them already. (Played RttToEE year it came out then CotSQ the next and loved them both). Although the aforementioned Dungeon magazine does give a REALLY good bang for the buck.
Kuje31 10-29-03, 03:43 PM	Originally posted by Doran Kess As a slight deviation..... Does anyone think that the Dungeon magazine adventure from a couple of years ago (Queen of the Demonweb pits, or Into the Demonweb Pits.. or something like that) has any relation at all to the present silence of Lolth? Doubtful, since FR's Lloth is not Greyhawk's Lloth any more, since FR is not part of the Great Ring/Wheel any longer. Fr's planes are now seperate and any thing that happens in Greyhawk does not happen in FR and vice versa.....
Yokinobu 10-29-03, 04:15 PM	Something else I noticed, besides the missing artwork, was that on pg 179, Throrgar, the shriekng abyss is noted to have planar connections with a layer of Pandemonium. However on page 257 in the FRCS, the cosmology presented possesses no such plane. I wonder what excuse there might be for such confusion.
WotC_RichBaker 10-29-03, 04:26 PM	The principal excuse is that I was a knucklehead, and should have said The Supreme Throne instead. (It's the most Pandemonium-like plane of the FR cosmology.) Originally posted by Yokinobu Something else I noticed, besides the missing artwork, was that on pg 179, Throrgar, the shriekng abyss is noted to have planar connections with a layer of Pandemonium. However on page 257 in the FRCS, the cosmology presented possesses no such plane. I wonder what excuse there might be for such confusion.
Herr Doktor 10-29-03, 06:48 PM	Originally posted by Richard Baker The principal excuse is that I was a knucklehead, and should have said The Supreme Throne instead. (It's the most Pandemonium-like plane of the FR cosmology.) Knucklehead! I was actually hoping that the expanded comology stuff in the player's guide would reconnect the Great Wheel to the Realms.
nekrolog 10-29-03, 09:19 PM	Originally posted by DarkWalker Look here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003b). Wouldn't the Deep Imaskari have existed long before the Netherese empire if they created the phaerimm? As I understood it, the phaerimm and sharn were around the first inhabitants of Toril. *edit: whoops, was trying to quote this: The Deep Imaskari are the former residents of the ancient Imaskari Empire that was a great wizard kingdom that was around the same time Netheril was around. The impression I got was that the Deep Imaskari is to the underdark as the Shades are to the surface world.
Gellion 10-29-03, 10:28 PM	Originally posted by nekrolog Wouldn't the Deep Imaskari have existed long before the Netherese empire if they created the phaerimm? As I understood it, the phaerimm and sharn were around the first inhabitants of Toril. I believe it was the Imaskari who created the Phaerimm.
Endur_Stonehelm 10-30-03, 03:07 PM	The book has a great geography section and descriptions of the lower dark, the middle dark, and upper dark. The best part of the book for me. I like the earth nodes, and hope future FRCS books have Air, Fire, and Water nodes as well. The new monsters, PRCs, feats, items, and spells are blah. As a seperate issue, I'm really burned out on new PRCs and consider them a waste of money in a book. In a module, I convert any PRC npc into a standard npc. Its not so much that I think PRCs are unbalanced (the DMG prcs are pretty well balanced), but I just don't want to play a game with 1000+ different classes with all sorts of different rules for each class.
Desies 10-30-03, 07:22 PM	That is exactly what prestige classes are for. There are tons of oppotunities for your character in this way, however you must reach a level above and beyond the normal person in order to qualify! Basically it is a way to justify a lot of the things that characters in books are capable of doing that normal classes don't offer.
johnnype 10-31-03, 01:49 PM	I'm really enjoying the book. The new races are perhaps my favorite part. The Deep Imaskari especially. Anyone see the levels of the leaders of Deep Imaskar? They're insane! I really like the fact that the writers didn't shy away from using psionics where apropriate. Thank you, thank you, thankyou! I even enjoyed the web enhancement. There are a couple of great NPC's that take advantage of the PrC's and races presented in the book, although no Imiskari :( Now all I have to do is figure out the best way to incorporate all of this great new material into CotSQ...