Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Draco Strang 02-22-05, 04:52 PM	Hey everyone, So I was flipping through the Eberron book the other day (I'm sorry...I'm a PC in an Eberron campaign, and I'm slowly coming to accept it. It's no FR, but if i wanna be a PC, only game in town) and gave another look at the Warforged. IMO, the concept for their race is pretty cool I think. It certainly fits in Eberron's schema, but I asked myself: "Self, how can we logically incorporate a small number of the Warforged into FR?" Well, I tossed it around for a while, and thought that maybe, just maybe, Netheril was the answer. Stay with me. I haven't had a chance to check out Lost Empires, but I've read the old Netheril boxed set, and we all know about Larloch and the City of Shade. That said, it's plainly obvious that the Netherese were uber-powerful wizards and had almost un-paralleled item creation abilities. So what if they created the Warforged? My justification for including them is that the Netherese arcanists would want a bodyguard they could trust wholly and completely, and sometimes humans turn on you. So why not just create a few intelligent ones? I think it'd be possible for an isolated Netherese outpost that was lost to the sands of time to have a few of these things kicking around still. Of course, to maintain the Realmsy feel, there would be a miniscule amount of these things in the world. One. I think he'd be a killer NPC for the party to meet. Since he's the only one of his kind, he could easily get people to believe that he's just a scaled-down version of an iron golem. He'd be great for plot-hooks. The Thayans want him, the Shades want him, the Elves want him...hell, everyone wants him so they can strip him down, see what makes him tick, and then start cranking them out by the thousands. Of course this would never happen, so as to not completely rape and pillage the idea of Forgotten Realms. They'd need a different name, too. I was thinking something along the lines of "Arcane Sentinel" or "Knight of Netheril." Think this would fly, or am I just going to completely tear up any sense of continuity and logic in my campaign? Input appreciated, thanks.
Dargoth 02-22-05, 05:29 PM	"Self, how can we logically incorporate a small number of the Warforged into FR?" Dont make me hurt you
CzarGarrett 02-22-05, 06:38 PM	The most likely situation, IMO, would be Gond. Gondsmen have been tinkering with robots of sorts, so what if one of them became sentient? Short of pretty much changing histories (no mention of warforged like stuff in the past), the only possibility is present and future.
WizO_BigSister 02-22-05, 06:45 PM	A brief description of what a warforged actually is might help you get some more responses here :)
Alac Luin 02-22-05, 06:59 PM	Warforged are living constructs. The best analogy I can come up with at the time is a sentient Golem. Not only are they part of the Eberron campaign setting they are also written up in the MM3.
Alac Luin 02-22-05, 07:06 PM	Now, for the base idea of this thread. Similer creatures do serve many of the purpouses you have mentioned. Shield Gurdians, and any other golem serve to protect wizards. Nimblewright(sp?) from one of the 4 WotC Monster books are also sentiant constructs. Personally, I don't like Warforged walking Faerun, dont let that stop you. I find that most everything a warforged could do, something else from the MMs can do it better.
Meta_FR_DM 02-22-05, 09:21 PM	I think it's a great idea to put War Forged into Faerûn. It's not even really necessary for a Dungeon Master to fully transplant the War Forged history found in the Eberron book to do it. I think War Forged could have come from Netheril. Netherese Arcanists could have created them as a kind of overwhelming army to wipe out the Phaerim, maybe setting up their Creation Forge deep underground so they could take the Phaerim by surprise. Maybe the Netherese had to do this because they needed the unique power of earth nodes to fuel their Forges. But the Phaerim find out and responded by burying all the Warforged along with the Creation Forge. So perhaps that's what the Tomb Tappers are seeking below the sands of Anourach. But without any luck down the centuries in finding them (the Warforged are buried deep] underground) the Tomb Tappers have expanded their purpose to include hording all magic. I figure a few Warforged could have escaped or been enslaved by Phaerim or even freed by sympathetic Sharn. Dave -who thinks that stubbornly believing nothing Eberron(ish) can be in Faerûn is same as ignoring the nature of the Forgotten Realms- M.
Dargoth 02-22-05, 09:33 PM	If I was going to put them anywhere it would be in the Ruins of Raumathar
Alac Luin 02-22-05, 09:36 PM	Dave -who thinks that stubbornly believing nothing Eberron(ish) can be in Faerûn is same as ignoring the nature of the Forgotten Realms- M. Not that I think nothing Eberron should be in the FR. Just the opposite, I did write up (about 4 pages in a Word .doc) of things from eberron that fill roles in Faerun very nicely. It was posted on these boards (FR), but got moved and now burried DEEP in the Eberron boards. I just personally don't think the warforged have that great a place in the (more specifically MY) realms. If you can make it work for you, great. It just doesn't need to be, from my perspective. Dave -who thinks that stubbornly believing everything Eberron(ish) needs to be in Faerûn is same as ignoring the nature of the Forgotten Realms- M.
Draco Strang 02-22-05, 09:53 PM	Ok...thanks for the replies all. As Big Sis said, a short description is in order. In Eberron, the Warforged are a sort of "living construct" that are sentient by accident, not design. In fact, the very first ones were mindless, much like golems, and then somewhere along the line the later ones started being able to think for themselves. They can be healed by either divine healing (only half the damage is healed from any given spell though), repair damage spells, or successful Craft (blacksmithing, gemcutting, armorsmithing) checks. They get bonuses to Con, and a minus to Cha and Wis. No level adjustment. However, they're subject to some stuff constructs are immune to, and susceptible to some. Actually a pretty neat race. And for the odd naysayer or two out there, it'd be ONE warforged that's the creation of an especially inventive, very dead Netherese arcanist. No plans available, nothing to hint at how it was made. I looked at golems, nimblewrights and constructs but they're a little different than the Warforged in that the forged actually feel and think like humans (after a fashion). This would make them good things to interact with, as they'd have their own goals and agenda, versus a construct just blindly following orders, unable to adapt to a situation. I want it to be a "gee whiz" sort of thing. There won't be platoons of warforged in the employ of any armies. As for changing histories, I wouldn't need to. After all, why would an arcanist want his competitors to know about his secret weapon of which there was only a sole example anyway? As I asked before...I need more votes on whether or not to put them in based on if they'd destroy the integrity of the whole Realms concept. I love the setting, and don't want to "cheapen" it, persay.
Alac Luin 02-22-05, 10:02 PM	Even though I said "nay", they are in the MM3, therefore open to all worlds. You have a story, go ahead and run with it. Things to acount for, you would need to give it several levels, or actually have platoons of them to explain it as the wizards secret weapon. A 1st level charicter is hardly threatining. :D Perhaps he has a small band of Fighters and wiz/sor(with repair spells). Or maybe a multi classed one... For the realms I'd say at least 5 char levels. Just my ideas. I'll step out and let others respond to this thread.
Meta_FR_DM 02-22-05, 10:07 PM	Dave -who thinks that stubbornly believing everything Eberron(ish) needs to be in Faerûn is same as ignoring the nature of the Forgotten Realms- M. Smart ass. ;) And I don't think it would destroy the entegrity of the setting at all. In my good ol' opinion there's so much magic in Faerûn that just about anything from another setting with have an analog in the Realms somewheres. But if you have players in your group that will cry foul, smite them. Wait, I mean maybe think twice about adding Warforged. Course you could just not use the word War Forged at all, keep your notes on paper instead of having the Eberron book nearby and leave it all to your description and your group's imaginations. Dave -who enjoys a wee bit of verbal swordplay- M.
Draco Strang 02-22-05, 11:24 PM	Oh I have every intention of giving the thing levels in fighter, and a PrC that turns him into an absolute tank. His feat chains would focus on dealing and taking massive damage, all in the name of the wizard.
Graz'zt, Prince of Shadow 02-23-05, 08:48 AM	All the evidence in Eberron points toward warforged as being based on creation schemas from giant ruins in Xen'drik. Perhaps the ancient giants that founded empires on Toril were refugees from the cataclysm that destroyed giant civilization on Eberron and brought some creation schemas with them. Not able to recreate creation forges in their new home, the schemas were buried in deep vaults and forgotten. Recently, a group of gnomish and human Gondsmen unlocked the schemas' creation patterns and constructed a warforged creation forge The first experiments have been huge successes, although several of them have escaped the Gondsmen's compound and are roaming Faerun. So far, most of the 'free' warforged have banded around an unusually charismatic warforged covered in black metal barbs.
Tempus665 02-23-05, 11:07 AM	If I was going to put them anywhere it would be in the Ruins of Raumathar Exactly, this was the first thing that came to mind.
Mystery Man 02-23-05, 12:00 PM	:yuck: I think Netheril is becoming too much of a cliche' nowadays to dump things that have zero potential to fit into the Realms. There is no way the ego of the Netherese archwizards would allow the creation of something that could possibly be in competition with them at some point.
Draco Strang 02-23-05, 12:09 PM	:yuck: I think Netheril is becoming too much of a cliche' nowadays to dump things that have zero potential to fit into the Realms. There is no way the ego of the Netherese archwizards would allow the creation of something that could possibly be in competition with them at some point. Well how could they be in competition? They're constructs, Albeit living ones. And the attitude of the warforged is "Serve my creator, no matter what." Granted, there are a few rogue ones that hate humans in Eberron, but I think that's mostly just a plot device. Anyway, if I use him at all, he'd be Netherese. What I want to know, is would this particular idea cause you and your players to give a giant "Boo Hiss" to the DM? My players are in the Eberron campaign right along with me, and the DM plays a PC in my campaign. So, to avoid going "Hey guys, look at the transplanted warforged" I would name them something different and try to be a bit ambiguous about what they really are.
Ssussunriyh 02-23-05, 01:34 PM	What about Helmed Horrors? A type of intelligent construct unique to FR; They were featured in Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerun, but I haven't heard anything else about them since 3E came out. A Helmed Horror resembles an animated suit of full plate armor. They cannot speak, but understand Common and/or their creator's language. IIRC, they have an Int score of 6 or so. Magic Missiles heal them instead of dealing damage. You might decide that your transplanted Warforged is actually a variant Helmed Horror, augmented or modified by a wizard who liked to tinker with constructs...
Mystery Man 02-23-05, 01:44 PM	I ran the Banewarrens ages ago, near Baldur's Gate. The sentient construct living in the spire I reasoned was the only one of his kind who did not remember his own origins. The only thing he could recall when queried was giant serpent with rainbow colored wings.
SearchingShaman 02-23-05, 02:33 PM	You could have the Warforged come from Thay, as a created loyal army to serve the Red Wizards. That's what my DM is doing.
Green Giant 02-23-05, 03:55 PM	IMO the Imaskari might be the best way to introduce the Warforged to the Realms. After all they aren't nicknamed the Artificers for nothing. I can see them creating mindless 'forged to oversee their great slave populations of Mulans. Then the deities of the Mulan arrive and they curse or bless the 'forged with intelligence to assist in the uprising. Most of them get destroyed in the battles between the gods and the Imaskari or get buried under the Raurin desert. Fast forward some millenia and a few of them are rising out of the desert to explore Faerun. Of course the nations of Mulhorand and Unther fear them, legends and hieroglyphs telling stories that they were the overseers when they were slaves and not realizing they may or may not have been instrumental in their rebellion (DM's choice), and seek to destroy them. There could also be others in Deep Imaskar along with how to create more of them. Perhaps they are being sent out to explore and scout the area so they don't have to risk any of their citizens. The only problem I have is what to call them since they weren't created for war but simply to oversee the slaves and suppress any rebellions.
The Simple Seeker II 02-23-05, 06:24 PM	Besides the idea of WarForged possibility existing in Faerun *why I don't know*, what mortal would have the knowledge to fix, heal, and upgrade them. In Faerun. May I suggest the Book of Iron Might (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mpress_BOIM), produced by Monte Cook's company, Malhavoc Press. In there, you can play the equivalent of a WarForged in Faerun. If you wish.
Alac Luin 02-23-05, 06:35 PM	Besides the idea of WarForged possibility existing in Faerun *why I don't know*, what mortal would have the knowledge to fix, heal, and upgrade them. In Faerun. A charicter with the craft construct feat. and the repair spells that can be learned by any wizard or can be chosen by sorcerors.
The_Arcanoloth 02-23-05, 06:51 PM	ach-ahem... And Lo! He brought with him out of the World of Darkness(Pre-ToJ) this Wisdom, That you shall carry all of your days, even unto the last generation of you: CROSSOVER IS NOT YOUR FRIEND. Now, that said, if you _must_ have Warforged in The Realms, I advise you to treat them as remnants of the Imaskari or refugees from Mechanus. Then I advise you to run and hide, because tainting The Realms with the sorriness that is Eberron (vile word!) will bring the DOOM onto your DOOMED head. But that's just my opinion.
The Simple Seeker II 02-23-05, 07:51 PM	A charicter with the craft construct feat. and the repair spells that can be learned by any wizard or can be chosen by sorcerors. Sorry, but that will not do...too easy.
Draco Strang 02-23-05, 08:02 PM	Alright, due to the response on the board, and a little soul-searching, I've decided to not use the Warforged in the Realms. So, put away your holy water and maces of smiting, because: A) I'm not doing it. B) I would never tell you where I live anyway. I'm sure someone has the track feat here. So, instead, is there a way to put some sort of intelligent constructs that're part of an ancient Empire? Netheril was on my mind, but even though I own Underdark, the Imaskari never even hit my mental radar. So, either of those places are a good possibility. Is there a way to awaken shield guardians or something, because Nimblewrights don't fit what I want. I need tanks.
Silas the Mariner 02-23-05, 08:23 PM	Perhaps their origin could be Netherese but the blame for their construction may lie with another race... The Maior Creare (Major Creations) Nether Scrolls* are a treatese on Construct creation. Anyone with access to these scrolls could have acquired the knowledge on how to create 'living constructs'. It would be interesting for a group of adventurers to be fighting enemies that include a construct, and just before a PC lands a killing blow, the construct displays some sort of cognizance (a childs voice?) that leads the party to investgate who's making them. *Lost Empires p157
Alac Luin 02-23-05, 08:36 PM	B) I would never tell you where I live anyway. I'm sure someone has the track feat here. Hmmm, already had tracks leading to a college campus in Cincinnati. A few diplomacy checks, and dropped gold pieces at the FLGSs, we were just about there. :) As had been seen, several people have placed warforged on faerun, and others may still do so. Let this thread stay with reasons behind faerun’s warforged. But, for the Shield Guardian, A mage had his shield guardian, one day he was doing some studying a new spell, so he made sure he was wearing his headband of intellect. A curious apprentice placed the controlling crown on his head. Something happened and the apprentice was killed, but his consciousness was transferred into Guardian through the crown. So, not only does it have human like thoughts, it is a human, a pubescent teen, that just started to find interest in girls.
Draco Strang 02-23-05, 09:42 PM	Hmmm, already had tracks leading to a college campus in Cincinnati. A few diplomacy checks, and dropped gold pieces at the FLGSs, we were just about there. :) Good luck finding me...there's 38,000 of us, and I don't belong to our defunct gaming club. It's full of Magic lovers. *straps on amulet of non-detection, ring of mind shielding* But, for the Shield Guardian, A mage had his shield guardian, one day he was doing some studying a new spell, so he made sure he was wearing his headband of intellect. A curious apprentice placed the controlling crown on his head. Something happened and the apprentice was killed, but his consciousness was transferred into Guardian through the crown. So, not only does it have human like thoughts, it is a human, a pubescent teen, that just started to find interest in girls. Yea, but the mechanics behind it? Or do they not matter, since the Netherse had magic beyond the comprehension of most of Faerun today.
Alac Luin 02-23-05, 10:01 PM	Yea, but the mechanics behind it? Or do they not matter, since the Netherse had magic beyond the comprehension of most of Faerun today. I wouldn't worry much of how it happened. There are a myriad of things that can happen with a wild magic surge. If you’re the DM, all you need to say is “It happened”. While the apprentice was controlling the guardian, it got into some of that “solid magic” or whatever that paintable magic stuff was called. The “shield apprentice” would now have the int and wis scores of the apprentice. The wizard keeps (or kept) him now as a “slave” to pay for ruining valuable magic. Depending on what you want, the “shield apprentice” may still be able to be controlled by the crown.
Draco Strang 02-23-05, 10:07 PM	I wouldn't worry much of how it happened. There are a myriad of things that can happen with a wild magic surge. If you’re the DM, all you need to say is “It happened”. While the apprentice was controlling the guardian, it got into some of that “solid magic” or whatever that paintable magic stuff was called. The “shield apprentice” would now have the int and wis scores of the apprentice. The wizard keeps (or kept) him now as a “slave” to pay for ruining valuable magic. Depending on what you want, the “shield apprentice” may still be able to be controlled by the crown. I like this. Thanks a lot.
Demetrios 02-23-05, 11:05 PM	There are several of ways to do this. The most reasonable would be that the original Warforged were created by Raumathari wizards (who were famed for their constructs) in their war against Narfell. When the two empires mutually destroyed each other, most (or all) of the Warforged of the time were destroyed, as was the knowledge of how to make them. But recently, either adventurers investigating the ruins of the empire have either rediscovered the secrets of how to make Warforged, or have accidently reactivated one or more of the creatures, who then went on to build others of their kind. Perhaps it was a Thayan wizard who rediscovered the lost lore, and is now planning to mass-produce a new durable type of slave (and when their sentience is discovered, it will cause some major philosophical discussions among the learned). Or perhaps these strange new creatures are appearing in the cities in the East, investigating what the modern world is like...
Razz 02-24-05, 01:45 AM	Dude, I've been thinking the same thing lately: "Should I place the War Forged in Forgotten Realms? If so how? Who made them, where have they been, and why were they created? Where have they gone?" I, too, have come to the conclusion that they were made by an ancient magical empire, Netheril or Raumathar, and when the creators died so too did the constructs cease to function. Putting gnomes and Gond into the picture can enhance the background to the War Forged, and the name can actually stay. After all, magical, intelligent, part-living constructs were most likely "forged for war" and nothing else anyhow. Here's what I say you should do. A group of wizards from one of the magical empires (whatever you want, I'd say maybe Netheril, they did have tons of flying cities, over 50 of them I believe, I'm sure one of them had a groupd of wizards dealing with constructs) began developing the War Forged. They've created tons of them, however, the final key to awakening them was never complete due to Karsus' Folly (or if some other empire, some catastrophical event). Gond worshippers discovered the hidden trove of war forged, studied them, and even managed to awaken them. They then began creating more and more. Those are my suggestions for including them into my FR campaign, feel free to take any ideas that stick out. On a side note, a little off topic, I have done the same with the other races: Goliaths, Illumians, Half-Giants, Catfolk, Killoren, Maenads, Dromoids, Xephs, Raptorans, etc. Raptorans were easy. I kept most of their background the same except changed their revered deity to Akadi. Goliaths were easy. Changed their deity to Grumbar and certain giant and human deities. Not many in Faerun, like aaracockrans, and seen in far-off mountains like the Galena Mountains or Spine of the World. Half-Giants were simple, experiments of the Jhaamdath Kingdom that eventually began living in the Shaar (and proximity to the thri-kreen that live there, conveniently). Shifters are from Eberron, but anyone can incorporate them into any campaign that has an abundant of lycanthropes, and Forgotten Realms has an overload of lycanthropes so Shifter's definitely exist. The Maenads I had to get creative. They were originally dedicated human servants of Auppenser, the deity of psionics descended from Jhaamdath. When Auppenser's power waned after Jhaamdath's fall, portions of his essence were fused into his servants and clergy members that survived the fall of Jhaamdath (thus the living crystal on their skin surface and being naturally psionic) and became the maenads. Since Jhaamdath was a coastal kingdom, it fit perfectly with the entry for Maenad Lands in the XPH (states they live in coastal regions, mostly). And the whole background in the XPH stating how they've been trying to fight with their inner emotions and taking care not to release it often (if much at all) I had was something they willed and tutored their kind to do, to make sure never to become as zealous and egotistical as their ancestors once did (which caused Jhaamdath's downfall). They've also become very reclusive, taking care only to trade with other coastal villages or sites that don't receive much traffick, if any at all. But, back on topic, I'm with you on trying to fit War Forged in Faerun. It's in the MMIII, thus making it open to all worlds as someone stated earlier.
HomebrewedMonster 02-24-05, 05:23 AM	In my last campaign I had the warforged as a "sleeper" race that was lying under Anarach. They were one of the reminants of the Netheresse Empire that was not activated before they fell.
Zardnaar 02-25-05, 05:49 AM	I thought up several options when I saw Warforged for the 1st time and considered the Realms. In order of realms canon. 1. Raumathor (sp?) Someones reactivated or rebuilt some. 2. Imaskari 3. Gonds Church 4. Netheril