Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Sidekick 09-01-03, 09:17 AM	Why are the NPC warriors(barbarians, fighters, rangers and paladins) of Faerun not as powerful as the wizards and sorcerers? Drizzt,who is the most powerful warrior in the realms is CR 18 while the wizards and sorcerers like Elminster ,Alustriel, Simbul, Halaster Blackcloak and Khelben Blackstaff are all about CR 30 (exept Elminster who is CR 39!).
Tamsar 09-01-03, 09:32 AM	Since when has Drizz't been the most powerful warrior in the realms? Most popular, yes. Powerful nope.
Mirtek 09-01-03, 09:51 AM	Originally posted by The Sidekick Why are the NPC warriors(barbarians, fighters, rangers and paladins) of Faerun not as powerful as the wizards and sorcerers? Drizzt,who is the most powerful warrior in the realms is CR 18 while the wizards and sorcerers like Elminster ,Alustriel, Simbul, Halaster Blackcloak and Khelben Blackstaff are all about CR 30 (exept Elminster who is CR 45!). 1st: El is CR 39. CR 45 was an error and has been corrected shortly after the release of the FRCS 2nd: Drizzt is how old? Less than 100. The guys you named are how old? 500+ or even 1,000+ That's the truth: Warrios grow old, warriors die. Magic user can extend their lifes a thousand years
Dargoth 09-01-03, 09:55 AM	Originally posted by Tamsar Since when has Drizz't been the most powerful warrior in the realms? Most popular, yes. Powerful nope. Im hard pressed to come up with a fighter more powerful than Drizzt. The only likely contender was King Azoun from Cormyr who had 20 levels of Cavalier/Fighter (1ed/2ed) and hes dead
Gotrex 09-01-03, 09:56 AM	why do no warriors hire mages to extend there life? surely if we are talking about iconic type warriors they would gain enough loot in there time to afford such a thing and fairly high chance that in there travels they will get to know at least one fairly capable mage and drizzt is probably the most powerful known fighter but there are probably alot of fighters out there stronger than him who just dont have R.A salvator making them well known :P also in another thread someone mentioned a guy in the realms who was a 40th level fighter but cant remember the name
Dargoth 09-01-03, 10:06 AM	Eltan the leader of the Flaiming fist Mercenary company is a 20th level fighter and Nergoth Blade Lord the Cult of the Dragon leader at the ell of Dragons is a 18th level fighter are possiable contenders
The Sidekick 09-01-03, 10:08 AM	In AD&D Artemic Entreri and Drizzt where both over 20th level and the wizards where not as powerful as they are in 3rd edition.
Tamsar 09-01-03, 10:21 AM	Im hard pressed to come up with a fighter more powerful than Drizzt. How aboutr Shuruppak "The Reaper". Fighter20/Rogue3/Wizard7. Wields a +4 Keen Unholy Vorpal Greatsword. His adjust AB is +38/+33/+28/+23. Heck he could take DD & AE at the same time. Others that spring to Mind are Gareth Dragonsbane (Paladin 20/Cleric 5). Also Olwyn Forest-Friend is probably of a level similar to Gareth so he'd be in the region of a level 23 or 24 Ranger. The HIgh Blade of Mulmaster is also a level 20+ warrior (Selfaril? around level 24). The highest level warrior i've ever seen in an FR supplement though is Abordabe a level 30 warrior (Although he's in his 60's now. Never mess the grizzled veteran king of the Nar's) Although he may well be dead now as that was a 2nd edition supplemnt (The Bloodstone Lands).
Mirtek 09-01-03, 10:23 AM	Originally posted by The Sidekick In AD&D Artemic Entreri and Drizzt where both over 20th level and the wizards where not as powerful as they are in 3rd edition. No, they were not (at least Drizzt was not). AD&D 1st Edition Drizzt: 10th level ranger Artemis: no stats (that i know of) AD&D 2nd Edition Drizzt: 16th level ranger Artemis: 11th level thief / 15th level fighter See Hall of Heroes for their 1e stats and Heroes Lorebook/Villians Lorebook for their 2e stats. If they had stats in OD&D, i don't know them
Kuje31 09-01-03, 12:33 PM	Dont forget the Open Lord of Waterdeep, he was at a least 20th level Paladin in 2e.
Paladin_of_the_Phoenix 09-01-03, 01:21 PM	Originally posted by Gotrex why do no warriors hire mages to extend there life? I'm not sure if it would be that easy to just cast a spell. Wizards live a long time for different reasons. Mere force of willpower for example, Also when you mention chaps like El(who is a chosen of Mystra) he's on a god like level of power.
Ilbreth Shadowblade 09-02-03, 06:57 AM	There is an epic feat that extends lifespan. There is nothing that prevents warriors from taking it.
Mirtek 09-02-03, 10:42 AM	Originally posted by Ilbreth Shadowblade There is an epic feat that extends lifespan. There is nothing that prevents warriors from taking it. Except maybe that most people don't reach epic levels
kedi 09-02-03, 12:03 PM	warriors hate magic and they die by their folly without exception.
Gotrex 09-02-03, 12:52 PM	when did warriors start hating magic? if warriors hated magic we would be throwing our bastard sword +3 and greataxe +4 down in disgust :P
Triton 09-02-03, 04:53 PM	Don't forget some longlived warriors: King Azoun IV of Cormyr died only after destroying an ancient dragon. He was 117 when he died. That's preaty old for a king who is also a in 1e a 20th level cavalier. Piergeiron the Lord of Waterdeep is a 15th level Paladin. Yamun Khahan while not long lived was high level and nearly conquered the entire continent of Faerun from Shou Lung to the Dales. Shuruppak 3e CR30 fighter. King Dragonsbane of Damara, Pal20/Clr5 Eltan of Baldur's Gate F20 Narfell was ruled for years by a 30th level fighter named Abordabe who now seems to be gone. I will agree that 3e has not had very many epic level warriors. And it seems that none of them appear to be long lived. Hopefully WotC changes that. Their should be nearly equal numbers of epic fighters, thieves, and clerics, as mages. Not to mention longlived.
Xae'an 09-02-03, 06:23 PM	Don't forget Dove Falconhand in this discussion. Sure, she has some magic too, but she's mostly a ranger and CR 32. She's propably the most powerful warrior of Faerun, since she's really tough with her +10 bonus to constitution as a chosen of Mystra.
Saasiel 09-03-03, 01:30 AM	Originally posted by Mirtek No, they were not (at least Drizzt was not). AD&D 1st Edition Drizzt: 10th level ranger Artemis: no stats (that i know of) AD&D 2nd Edition Drizzt: 16th level ranger Artemis: 11th level thief / 15th level fighter See Hall of Heroes for their 1e stats and Heroes Lorebook/Villians Lorebook for their 2e stats. If they had stats in OD&D, i don't know them Actually in 2e, Drizzt was 18th level fighter/16th level ranger, and Artemis was 15th level fighter/11th level thief. Although mechanically they were on par with each other with regards to skill with weapons and what not...
Saasiel 09-03-03, 01:32 AM	Originally posted by Xae'an Don't forget Dove Falconhand in this discussion. Sure, she has some magic too, but she's mostly a ranger and CR 32. She's propably the most powerful warrior of Faerun, since she's really tough with her +10 bonus to constitution as a chosen of Mystra. Actually, Dove is not that good of a fighter as Drizzt and Artemis. She is slightly below them. Drizzt and Artemis survive on sheer skill, she is merely a Chosen of Mystra... go figure.
kedi 09-03-03, 02:51 AM	come'on peopla artemis of course, he has lived a short life but hes powerfull. and elves grow slowly, so their 100 years of live is equal to a 6 years of an human, so elven warroirs with epic levels are rare too
Ranger REG 09-03-03, 04:50 AM	Originally posted by The Sidekick Why are the NPC warriors(barbarians, fighters, rangers and paladins) of Faerun not as powerful as the wizards and sorcerers? Drizzt,who is the most powerful warrior in the realms is CR 18 while the wizards and sorcerers like Elminster ,Alustriel, Simbul, Halaster Blackcloak and Khelben Blackstaff are all about CR 30 (exept Elminster who is CR 39!). Heh. :smirk: As a longtime Drizzt fan, I never once considered him the most powerful warrior in the Realms. I do recognized he is a very skilled warrior that kept him alive thus far. He just happened to be very popular, like Miyamoto Musashi (a legendary Samurai swordsman who is noted for his Niten Ryu or "twin sword" fighting technique). :cool: Of course, R.A. Salvatore didn't intend for this character to be the "star" when he first appeared in the Icewind Dale Trilogy, but he became a fan favorite, much like Mr. Spock, who is chosen over the "star" captain Kirk in Star Trek. But it is this fan adoration that others are put off by this character. Kinda like me when I hated the latino boy band group Menudo in the 1980's because I get sick and tired of the girls in my school that cannot stop talking about them. Menudo "this." Menudo "that." I mean will you JUST SHUT UP!!! :behold: Sorry. I think it's time I go back to my med. :devil:
kedi 09-03-03, 04:56 AM	artemis is equal to drizzt, azoun is greater than drizzt and so on
Mirtek 09-03-03, 05:46 AM	Originally posted by Saasiel Actually in 2e, Drizzt was 18th level fighter/16th level ranger, and Artemis was 15th level fighter/11th level thief. Although mechanically they were on par with each other with regards to skill with weapons and what not... No, Artemis was a thief/fighter not a fighter/thief. See Villians Lorebook, page 10 And Drizzt was no fighter/ranger, but a pure ranger. He was a special case, breaking the rules like it was common for these guys in these days. He was an 18th level fighter, who then got converted into a ranger. Back then different classes had different XP tables and the XP needed to be an 18th level fighter, were the same as needed for a 16th level ranger. Thus Drizzt was listed as a pure ranger, not a fighter/ranger. See Heroes Lorebook, page 44 Originally posted by Triton Yamun Khahan while not long lived was high level and nearly conquered the entire continent of Faerun from Shou Lung to the Dales. Well, his 300,000 soldiers couldn't have been the reason for that, could they? Anyway, while doing an impressive campaign in Shou Lung, his campaing into western Faerun was a disaster. He wasn't even near conquering it.
Ilbreth Shadowblade 09-03-03, 07:38 AM	King Azoun IV of Cormyr died only after destroying an ancient dragon. He was 117 when he died. That's preaty old for a king who is also a in 1e a 20th level cavalier. Azoun was somwhere near 70 when he died.
Triton 09-03-03, 08:21 AM	Cyclopedia of the Realms p34 Azoun IV born 1282. Cormyr the novel Azoun IV died 1369. The math 87 years old. Don't mess with grandpa.:cool:
Darkmistress 09-03-03, 08:23 AM	Originally posted by Triton Don't forget some longlived warriors: King Azoun IV of Cormyr died only after destroying an ancient dragon. He was 117 when he died. *sputters lemon tea* Azoun was? How did he...? Originally posted by kedi and elves grow slowly, so their 100 years of live is equal to a 6 years of an human, so elven warroirs with epic levels are rare too The ratio does not compute. 100:6? Try 9:1, since "normal" elves -- sans magic, divine aid and all -- live to be at most, oh, 800. I think the fact that there aren't "many" high-level elven fighters is because all the good press is given to elven mages. When was the last time you saw, hell, an epic bladesinger NPC?
kedi 09-03-03, 08:42 AM	azoun died when he fought an ancient dragon. :bow: to dragon! :bow: but the dragon died to :( well, When was the last time you saw, hell, an epic bladesinger NPC you said, I said: so elven warroirs with epic levels are rare to but you disagreed and post a message that with the same idea?
Darkmistress 09-03-03, 09:15 AM	No, my point is that, there are simply not much focus on elven warriors. Realistically, IMO, the warriors should, if anything, outrank the mages.
kedi 09-03-03, 09:30 AM	you mean there is not much focus on elven rangers? kiddin me right?
Cherrn 09-03-03, 09:53 AM	There's also the Iron Lord of Rashemen: Volas Dyervolk CG human male barbarian lvl 18. He seems pretty powerful to me ;)
Dorlomin 09-03-03, 10:13 AM	Originally posted by Ilbreth Shadowblade There is an epic feat that extends lifespan. There is nothing that prevents warriors from taking it. Did I miss that one? Where can I find that feat? (what's it called? never heard of it)
Triton 09-03-03, 04:05 PM	I think the point of the thread is that the Realms Epic NPCs are all mages. When I looked at the ELH it had NO non spellcasting epic level characters for the Realms. As compared to 2 of 4 from Greyhawk. So where are the Epic warriors? Is it suppose to be much easier to become an Epic caster in the Realms than an Epic Warrior or Rogue?:(
kedi 09-03-03, 04:14 PM	I guess so living a life of figter is hard, but you can study the 9th level spells by spending years without danger
Darkmistress 09-03-03, 10:51 PM	Originally posted by kedi you mean there is not much focus on elven rangers? kiddin me right? *looks tired* Warriors in general.
rmilsop 09-04-03, 08:37 AM	I believe the core of why they have made the epic NPCs mages isntead of warriors is this - Epic Warrior - wow, he can hit stuff good. Seriously, he's still just a guy with a pointy stick, and almost nobody would find it remotely believable (using the word loosely, this is FR) that a guy with a pointy stick could defeat an army of thousands single handedly in open battle. But that's what an epic warrior should be able to do. Epic mage - able to harness the most powerful arcane magics in existance. Yeah, I think he has a little more oomph than a warrior. Now, not saying that this guy would be more powerful, just saying he's....shinier than an epic warrior.