| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Caligula09-14-05, 07:55 PM | Hi! Iīve been playing D&D and FR for many years. Right now, we have an ongoing campaign with seasoned players set in the FR. However, there just arenīt enough adventurers set in the FR. Thus far, Wizards have only released 2 FR adventurers, "City of the Spiderqueen" which was superb, and the "Sons of Grummsh" still waiting to climb the bookshelves in the stores. As DM, I have to look like crazy for adventurers that might adapt to the FR setting. I buy them from Necromancer Games, and Goodman Games. But it takes a lot of conversion work. I want the real stuff! I really wonder why there hasnīt been any epic adventurers on the scale like "Die Vecna Die" or "Return to the Tomb of Horrors", where the heroes are fighting the Zhentarim and Manshoon, or the Red Wizards of Thay? There are almost too many campaign supplements out now, but we lack adventures! The supplements such as "Unapproachable east", "Silver Marches" and so on, make our mouths water with all the exciting intrigues, but hey, where are the adventures!? You should put Bruce R. Cordell in manacles and not releasing him until he has concluded an epic adventure in 3 parts where the PCīs battle the Zhentarim! Imagine the final battle, where all 3 clones of Manshoon pops up. Better shoot that arrow on the right one... Please, Wizards! Make some really good and long FR-adventures! We need them desperately! |
| Krash09-14-05, 08:05 PM | The reason that there aren't any 'big' FR adventures that allow PCs to smash Thay and then make Manshoon their own private boot-licker is that all such adventures, in the context of the FR timeline and continuity, have to have a result - and hence affect the Realms in a way that doesn't suit all gamers. If you want an adventure that is going to be epic in scale and significantly Realms-altering when the PCs finish up doing what it is they do, then you are going to have to home brew it. -- George Krashos |
| Alac Luin09-14-05, 08:10 PM | There is also "Into the Dragon's Lair" and "Attack on Myth Drannor", these were early 3ed adventures. |
| Caligula09-14-05, 08:19 PM | The reason that there aren't any 'big' FR adventures that allow PCs to smash Thay and then make Manshoon their own private boot-licker is that all such adventures, in the context of the FR timeline and continuity, have to have a result - and hence affect the Realms in a way that doesn't suit all gamers. If you want an adventure that is going to be epic in scale and significantly Realms-altering when the PCs finish up doing what it is they do, then you are going to have to home brew it. -- George Krashos But in our game, thatīs just what we want! The results of our game will not effect FR for other players. It will only effect our campaign. If you rememeber "Die Vecna Die", that fantastic adventure has everlasting effects on the world of Greyhawk and Vecna himself ofcourse. "City of the Spiderqueen" has lasting effects on FR! If the players screw it up, half of the Dales will be destroyed!! Itīs just a shame that we canīt find more and longer adventures for the FR. I canīt understand why they publish 20-30 books with more feats, spells and monsters, but no adventures! Iīm pretty tired of all new feats and prestige classes. Theyīre just too many of those, and too few adventures. What are we supposed to play? Old AD&D stuff!? |
| Kuje3109-14-05, 08:30 PM | They didn't publish a lot of adventures because they are a business and they were losing money on them because of the 3rd party companies that were publishing adventures. Now that those 3rd party companies have stopped or printed less adventures, WOTC is taking up the slack. You could also buy Dungeon which always has adventures. There's 50+ adventures right there. :) |
| Caligula09-14-05, 08:35 PM | They didn't publish a lot of adventures because they are a business and they were losing money on them because of the 3rd party companies that were publishing adventures. Now that those 3rd party companies have stopped or printed less adventures, WOTC is taking up the slack. You could also buy Dungeon which always has adventures. There's 50+ adventures right there. :) I know, but those adventures are so short. What we really want are epic style adventures for characters of 8th-15th level. I couldnīt believe it when I saw they were publishing yet another 4th level adventure in "Sons of Grummsh". Donīt they think there are PCs out there above 4th level? I really hope they get their act together now and that they will produce a series of challenging FR-adventures. |
| tariff09-14-05, 08:39 PM | My group is currently playing a Dungeon magazine adventure "The Raiders of galaths Roost" this is a low lvl adventure based in the dales that involves the Zhentarim. (and its proving very memorable). There is also a follow on adventure (i think for 8th lvl characters) that is based in the same area and also involves the Zhentarim. I would agree wholehartedly tho that more FR adventures need to be published. |
| Kuje3109-14-05, 08:41 PM | I know, but those adventures are so short. What we really want are epic style adventures for characters of 8th-15th level. I couldnīt believe it when I saw they were publishing yet another 4th level adventure in "Sons of Grummsh". Donīt they think there are PCs out there above 4th level? I really hope they get their act together now and that they will produce a series of challenging FR-adventures. How about you give them a chance to actually see if the market is going to exist for adventures. :) They haven't printed adventures in over 2 years except for Dungeon because of this. So give them a chance to see if they are going to make money on them otherwise they will stop printing adventures again. And there's always 3rd party and I know Dungeon prints mid to high level adventures. |
| Alac Luin09-14-05, 08:49 PM | I would agree wholehartedly tho that more FR adventures need to be published. I think almost across the board, this staement holds true. (some DMs do not use published adventures) It's just this subject comes up often enough, and the same things get said over and over. Nobody here is trying to argue that there are enough adventures to go around, and we are just trying to point people in the right direction to get the most of what is out there. Maybe we should all go out and buy two copies of "sons of grumish", just to make the market for adventures, even if we don't plan on useing it. ;) |
| Kuje3109-14-05, 08:52 PM | Maybe we should all go out and buy two copies of "sons of grumish", just to make the market for adventures, even if we don't plan on useing it. ;) Hells. I'd just like to get one copy ATM. :) My comic guy hasn't got it in yet but he got Fane in.... Grumble. |
| Alac Luin09-14-05, 09:04 PM | Hells. I'd just like to get one copy ATM. :) My comic guy hasn't got it in yet but he got Fane in.... Grumble. I may not be at the same level as Zannon, or a few others on these boards, I am a "Drow fan boy". I have absolutely no interest in this Fane thing. It does look like there issues with others getting Sons of Grummish :eek: (When do we start referring to this as simply SoG?). SoG will most likely be on my next Amazon order. :) |
| Caligula09-14-05, 09:06 PM | I think almost across the board, this staement holds true. (some DMs do not use published adventures) It's just this subject comes up often enough, and the same things get said over and over. Nobody here is trying to argue that there are enough adventures to go around, and we are just trying to point people in the right direction to get the most of what is out there. Maybe we should all go out and buy two copies of "sons of grumish", just to make the market for adventures, even if we don't plan on useing it. ;) I always buy the published adventures for FR! I bought "City of the Spiderqueen" and I have already ordered "Sons of Grummsh"! Since everybody seems to agree that their arenīt enough adventures around for FR, perhaps they will take this to them and start writing! I think that Bruce R. Cordell guy is terrific! He wrote both "Return to the Tomb of Horrors", and "Die Vecna Die". Imagine him doing an epic adventure on the Zhentarims and Manshoon!! |
| Kuje3109-14-05, 09:09 PM | I may not be at the same level as Zannon, or a few others on these boards, I am a "Drow fan boy". I have absolutely no interest in this Fane thing. It does look like there issues with others getting Sons of Grummish :eek: (When do we start referring to this as simply SoG?). SoG will most likely be on my next Amazon order. :) I'm not sure Fane was worth the 15 bucks it normally sells for because it's only 16 pages but at least I got 30% off from the comic guy. :) And yeah, I have to call him to see if he got SoG in or if not then he needs to order it for me. However, I'll never run it and I never run FR modules. I make my own adventures that fit in with the PC's. :) I buy them because I'm a FR junkie. Not the word I wanted but the word I want to say would be censored. :) |
| Dargoth09-14-05, 09:24 PM | So far we have the following WOTC Published Modules City of the Spider Queen PoR: Attack on Myth Drannor Into the Dragons Lair Sons of Gruumsh 3ed Adventures from Dungeon magazine Adventures by Skip Williams Raiders of Galaths Roost issue 87 Woe to Mistledale issue 100 Secrets of the Archwood issue 121 Forest of Blood by Wil Upchurch Issue 103 (where apparently getting an epic level sequel) Prison of the Flamebringer issue 101 by Richard Baker Vampires of Waterdeep series by Eric Boyd Blood of Malar Issue 126 Dungeon of the Crypt Issue 127 There will be a third in 128 which isnt out yet Doorway to Everywhere Issue 88 THIRDS OF PURLOINED VELLUM Issue 88 As for page count according to Rich Baker 32 page format is not set in stone for every module for example there doing 128 page module next year. Hopefully we'll see a longer module for the FR next year |
| Caligula09-14-05, 09:27 PM | As for page count according to Rich Baker 32 page format is not set in stone for every module for example there doing 128 page module next year. Hopefully we'll see a longer module for the FR next year Which would that 128 page module be? Do you know? |
| Dargoth09-14-05, 09:30 PM | Which would that 128 page module be? Do you know? I think its called Redhand of Doom. Its a Generic module but its apparently been written to easily fit into the Western Shaar region in the FR |
| Caligula09-14-05, 09:59 PM | I think its called Redhand of Doom. Its a Generic module but its apparently been written to easily fit into the Western Shaar region in the FR Where did you find out about that? Where can I read more about it? It seems like Wizards are about to release some more adventures. At least after talking to you guys! |
| Kadasbrass09-14-05, 10:16 PM | The reason there isn't alot of adventures anymore being made is simple I fear; Their targeted only to the DM (usually). As a result you'll see at most one adventure sold to each group, but not each DM will get one for their group so its going to be smaller then that. Its all about the economics :( |
| Caligula09-14-05, 11:38 PM | The reason there isn't alot of adventures anymore being made is simple I fear; Their targeted only to the DM (usually). As a result you'll see at most one adventure sold to each group, but not each DM will get one for their group so its going to be smaller then that. :( Yes, I know but at the same time, if they donīt make enough adventures, what are we supposed to play? I canīt sit down and write a monster adventure as CotSQ! I donīt have the skill, and I sure donīt have the time to do it! It would take me a year... If they want to keep selling FR stuff, they must make sure we have plenty of adventures to play. Iīve got 10+ FR books now with feats, monsters and Pr.Classes. But where am I gonna use all that? |
| Alac Luin09-14-05, 11:53 PM | Yes, I know but at the same time, if they donīt make enough adventures, what are we supposed to play? I canīt sit down and write a monster adventure as CotSQ! I donīt have the skill, and I sure donīt have the time to do it! It would take me a year... If they want to keep selling FR stuff, they must make sure we have plenty of adventures to play. Iīve got 10+ FR books now with feats, monsters and Pr.Classes. But where am I gonna use all that? This is the argument the guys in R&D have been making with the bean counters. It looks like the bean counters are giving. A little. Sons of Grummish is as much a minis adventure (so I've heard) as it is a FR adventure, so it can go to two crowds. EDIT: This may be wrong, listen to someone who actually has seen the module (Ice Barbarian) below. The other one mentioned Redhand of Doom, s a generic module easily converted to the realms, so it isn't specifically a realms adventure. |
| Caligula09-15-05, 01:01 AM | The other one mentioned Redhand of Doom, s a generic module easily converted to the realms, so it isn't specifically a realms adventure. Where did you find out about "Redhand of Doom"? Where can I read more about it? |
| Dargoth09-15-05, 01:26 AM | The first trimester WOTC cateloge for 2006 Basicly it involves Hobgoblins, Dragons and Tiamat You can also check the ask Rich Baker thread as he wrote Red hand of Doom |
| Rezel Darkbane09-15-05, 01:58 AM | They should just make the adventure modules an online subscription. That way the fans get what they want and there is no cost for the printing of materials. Sure it still takes some time on the writers part but I am pretty sure they would more than cover their cost. Just a thought. |
| Ice Barbarian09-15-05, 01:45 PM | I just picked up Sons of Gruumsh today and, though I haven't had a chance to fully read the entire mod, my first impression is that it's very light on the minis aspect, it seems to be limited to "Suggested Miniature: X" and that's about it. |
| Alac Luin09-15-05, 02:08 PM | I just picked up Sons of Gruumsh today and, though I haven't had a chance to fully read the entire mod, my first impression is that it's very light on the minis aspect, it seems to be limited to "Suggested Miniature: X" and that's about it. That sounds like good news!!!! I added a disclaimer to my above post, admiting that what I've heard may not be correct. |
| Ice Barbarian09-15-05, 02:43 PM | I definitely heard the same thing you did and because of that I was expecting a decent amount of emphasis on miniatures in this mod. It even says that the encounters in the mod are designed for use with miniatures, but honestly the entire rest of it seems to look like any other module, on first glance I didn't see the battle maps and miniatures scenarios I expected to find inserted into it. I think the description on the back cover says it best: "This adventure can be played using D&D Miniatures." Just like any other module you'll ever use. PS To me that's good news, too! |
| Kid SixXx09-15-05, 07:08 PM | How about you give them a chance to actually see if the market is going to exist for adventures. :) They haven't printed adventures in over 2 years except for Dungeon because of this. So give them a chance to see if they are going to make money on them otherwise they will stop printing adventures again. And there's always 3rd party and I know Dungeon prints mid to high level adventures. I tend to agree with Kuje31 for once. The last two consecutive editions of Dungeon have had FR adventures in them. Dungeon #126 (http://paizo.com/dungeon/products/issues/2005/126) contained Blood of Malar, by Eric L. Boyd, and Dungeon #127 (http://paizo.com/dungeon/products/issues/2005/127) contained Dungeon of the Crypt, also by Mr. Boyd. If you want "epic" then look into the Age of Worms ongoing scenario, which should have the potential to carry PCs from birth to epic levels and is easily adopted to the FR setting. Also, use the "search" feature for the "free adventures" available for download here at the WoTC website. |
| tariff09-15-05, 08:16 PM | Personally i think its WOTC "Duty" to publish modules, otherwise they are supplying an incomplete game. Not everyone has the time, energy, skill to write thier own adventures. Also, how are new people going to learn the hobby?. Imagine starting off, buying the phb, dmg, mm, reading them and then finding out you have to write your own adventure for your players...honestly, would you bother?...or would you just play a on-line rpg like Everquest. And as for converting old 3rd edition modules, its not always that easy..go look at the forums regarding converting "The city of the Spider Queen", the module relies heavily on the drow using the "haste" tactic, a tactic that no longer works in 3.5. Also many of the monsters have changed since 3rd edition (see Balor). There is actually only one 3.5 module for FR, and thats just been released (SoG)...how long has 3.5 been out?. As for dungeon mag, yes it has improved and does feature FR adventures, but most of them are short in length, and not everyone wants to subscribe to it when many issues contain adventures they wont use. And modules give us all a reference point, no matter what style of game you played. People would talk about and get excited about "The tomb of horrors", "Expedition to the barrier peaks" etc etc. Who gets excited about more source books??... Im pleased however that WoTC seem to be listening and now producing modules again. We will have to wait and see if they are as good as the old ones. Bring back the big box set modules. Loads of maps and player handouts :) |
| Kuje3109-15-05, 08:31 PM | Actually, It's WOTC's duty to make money. Period. If they don't make money on these things then they will not be made at all. It's not WOTC's duty to make modules for new players, for old players, etc. All there duty is to make sure they survive as a business. Would I bother to play D&D without modules. Yes, and hells yes. Not all groups use modules and even though I buy them, I don't use them. I read them for the lore, which is also why I buy Dragon and Dungeon. I, however, get more excited over a sourcebook. |
| Thelandrach09-15-05, 09:53 PM | I only run published modules, so my 3rd edition campaign hasn't been as Faerunian as it could have been. I've been running the generic set of modules they published when the game first came out (Forge of Fury in the Misty Forest, Standing Stones in the High forest, Heart of Nightfang Spire in the heart of the Serpent Hills, Deep Horizon under the High Moor; for the next two, they're leaving this plane and moving onwards). I'm trying to figure out what to do for my next campaign--I've got COTSQ and Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, so there's two medium-length campaigns; by the time I'm done with those, we should know whether WOTC has adhered to their no-modules policy. I'll either buy a stack of modules from some other publisher and graft them onto the FR, or I'll tackle the mildly herculean task of translating all my old FR modules from 1st & 2nd edition to 3rd. Might work out pretty well; we'll see... In the meantime, for all those people who say they want to see more FR modules: if they publish one, buy it... |
| Slime Lord09-15-05, 10:04 PM | I just want to say that if I ever manage to gather the components needed for my Adventure "Triangle of Three" (Seen below), it'd likely be something around 18 Lv. Cause that is where I see my idea for this being. Not that it's much use, but it's badass...Shame I don't have any DnD Friends (or friends ingeneral off the net! LOL!) |
| warlockco09-15-05, 10:18 PM | In the meantime, for all those people who say they want to see more FR modules: if they publish one, buy it... Yep, buy it, even it is terrible :P At least it will give them incentive ($$) to make more, and hopefully of better quality. |
| GothicDan09-15-05, 10:43 PM | I've never run or have played in a single published adventure or module of any kind during my 10 years of game play. ;) The only adventures that I've bought by themselves are the Planescape ones. Because... Planescape is cool. |
| Caligula09-15-05, 11:01 PM | Personally i think its WOTC "Duty" to publish modules, otherwise they are supplying an incomplete game. Not everyone has the time, energy, skill to write thier own adventures. Also, how are new people going to learn the hobby?. Imagine starting off, buying the phb, dmg, mm, reading them and then finding out you have to write your own adventure for your players...honestly, would you bother?...or would you just play a on-line rpg like Everquest. And as for converting old 3rd edition modules, its not always that easy..go look at the forums regarding converting "The city of the Spider Queen", the module relies heavily on the drow using the "haste" tactic, a tactic that no longer works in 3.5. Also many of the monsters have changed since 3rd edition (see Balor). There is actually only one 3.5 module for FR, and thats just been released (SoG)...how long has 3.5 been out?. As for dungeon mag, yes it has improved and does feature FR adventures, but most of them are short in length, and not everyone wants to subscribe to it when many issues contain adventures they wont use. And modules give us all a reference point, no matter what style of game you played. People would talk about and get excited about "The tomb of horrors", "Expedition to the barrier peaks" etc etc. Who gets excited about more source books??... Im pleased however that WoTC seem to be listening and now producing modules again. We will have to wait and see if they are as good as the old ones. Bring back the big box set modules. Loads of maps and player handouts :) This was the best post Iīve ever read here. You took the words out of my mouth! We want more adventure boxes with 160 page adventure, maps, and loads of handouts! You betya! Thanks bro! :clap: |
| Caligula09-15-05, 11:06 PM | I've got COTSQ and Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, so there's two medium-length campaigns; by the time I'm done with those, we should know whether WOTC has adhered to their no-modules policy. I'll either buy a stack of modules from some other publisher and graft them onto the FR, or I'll tackle the mildly herculean task of translating all my old FR modules from 1st & 2nd edition to 3rd. Might work out pretty well; we'll see... In the meantime, for all those people who say they want to see more FR modules: if they publish one, buy it... First, Iīm sorry to break your illusion, but CotSQ and RttToEE are not "medium" length campaigns. Theyīre very looong campaigns. Just so you know to prepare time enough to conclude them. Second, since Wizards havenīt published enough FR 3.5 adventures, I do as you. I buy adventures at www.necromancergames.com or www.goodmangames.com and convert them to the FR setting. It can be done without too much work. Thereīs also the possibility to get downloads of older AD&D adventures from www.rpgnow.com and convert them, but thatīs a tougher nut to crack. The conversion will take plenty of time! Finally, I agree. If Wizards publish a FR adventure module Iīll buy it as well! |
| ericlboyd09-16-05, 09:08 AM | Well, at the risk of appearing to slide down the slippery slope of self-promotion ... if you really want lots of FR adventures, then Dungeon is the best bet. Either buy the issues that have FR adventures in them or subscribe and write the editor a letter saying you're doing so because you want lots of FR adventures. If you want longer FR adventures, ask the editor of dungeon for campaign arcs set in the Realms. Over the past 9 months, Dungeon has made an increasing commitment to including FR adventures ... if this is what you want make sure they know it, or the tide might turn again someday. --Eric |
| warlockco09-16-05, 02:38 PM | Well, at the risk of appearing to slide down the slippery slope of self-promotion ... if you really want lots of FR adventures, then Dungeon is the best bet. Either buy the issues that have FR adventures in them or subscribe and write the editor a letter saying you're doing so because you want lots of FR adventures. If you want longer FR adventures, ask the editor of dungeon for campaign arcs set in the Realms. Over the past 9 months, Dungeon has made an increasing commitment to including FR adventures ... if this is what you want make sure they know it, or the tide might turn again someday. --Eric :clap: |
| Caligula09-17-05, 08:03 AM | Thanks guys for the interest shown in this thread! Iīm well aware of the Dungeon magazine and the adventures published there on a frequent basis. However, this thread isnīt really about those short adventures, or the short adventures published on the Wizard homepage that can be downloaded for free. What this is about, is epiclevel adventures that blow your mind away as a player! When "The City of the Spiderqueen" was published for D&D 3.0 I thought, "man now weīre talking!". I thought that was just the beginning of many great adventures to follow. But then, complete silence. Itīs stunning to me that Wizards have only "Sons of Grummsh" as adventure for the 3.5 edition. Itīs just unbelievable! Players all over the world loved the big adventures such as "Die Vecna Die", "Return to the Tomb of Horrors", "Axe of the Dwarvish Lords", "City of the Spiderqueen" , "Dragonmountain", "Rod of Seven Parts", "Undermountain", etc. Please, Wizards, continue that great tradition and donīt let Zhentarims, Manshoon, Red Wizards of Thay, and all the other naughty guys just remain as brief remarks in campaign accessories. Put them out there where they belong, right there out on the battlefield in epic adventures, trying to kill our heroes!!!! |
| GothicDan09-17-05, 09:47 AM | Please, Wizards, continue that great tradition and donīt let Zhentarims, Manshoon, Red Wizards of Thay, and all the other naughty guys just remain as brief remarks in campaign accessories. Put them out there where they belong, right there out on the battlefield in epic adventures, trying to kill our heroes!!!! As Krash (who is indeed semi-affiliated with WotC.. Sort of.. I think) said before, WotC will not do this often (or at all) because all of the adventures that they write are taken as canon. You said that the results of your game will not effect FR for other players, but that doesn't change the fact that in the end, there are only two possible conclusions (with some variations on each) to the adventure: the adventurers lose or they fail. So, no matter what, if WotC published such huge, epic adventures, the Realms would be changed significantly in some area of concern or region. It's up to the DM to decide how significantly he wants his players to change the Realms in his campaign... Not WotC. |
| tariff09-17-05, 10:07 AM | As Krash (who is indeed semi-affiliated with WotC.. Sort of.. I think) said before, WotC will not do this often (or at all) because all of the adventures that they write are taken as canon. You said that the results of your game will not effect FR for other players, but that doesn't change the fact that in the end, there are only two possible conclusions (with some variations on each) to the adventure: the adventurers lose or they fail. So, no matter what, if WotC published such huge, epic adventures, the Realms would be changed significantly in some area of concern or region. It's up to the DM to decide how significantly he wants his players to change the Realms in his campaign... Not WotC. But they have done before... "City of the Spider Queen" is a pretty epic module. I disagree that you cant have huge "epic" adventures, that make changes to the world. The world of Fearun is a big place, there are many tenticles of evil that can be struck at without having to affect "canon". And the guys at WoTC should be writting world changing events into FR adventures so players can participate in them. No one wants a static world. |
| GothicDan09-17-05, 11:22 AM | But they have done before... "City of the Spider Queen" is a pretty epic module. And even if the PCs would have failed in that, if it's true what one said here that half of the Dales would have been destroyed (I'll assume that's right because I don't own it), there would have been Elminster around to stop it. Status quo returned. I disagree that you cant have huge "epic" adventures, that make changes to the world. The world of Fearun is a big place, there are many tenticles of evil that can be struck at without having to affect "canon". No, because by WotC's and TSR's policies, every strike against every tentacle of evil in an adventure is indeed canon. So by definition adventures affect canon, just as the novels do. And the guys at WoTC should be writting world changing events into FR adventures so players can participate in them. No one wants a static world. I hate Realms Shattering Events. I'm sick and tired of them and I want to take the next such idea into the palm of my hands, squish it together, throw it onto the ground, stomp on it, sprinkle arsenic on it, toss it into a vat of acid, let a Balor chew it up and defecate it out, and then polymorph it into a red-headed stepchild so I can slap it. |
| tariff09-17-05, 01:16 PM | And even if the PCs would have failed in that, if it's true what one said here that half of the Dales would have been destroyed (I'll assume that's right because I don't own it), there would have been Elminster around to stop it. Status quo returned. Thats not correct. This issue has been discussed many times, most recently below. Where did you get this idea?.. The fabled "safety net" dosent exist. No-one, repeat, no-one plays the realms like that. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=498762&page=1&pp=30 No, because by WotC's and TSR's policies, every strike against every tentacle of evil in an adventure is indeed canon. So by definition adventures affect canon, just as the novels do. Ive heard this a number of times, but seen no official declaration that this is correct. So i may have missed something (quite possible), pls point to your source for this statement. I hate Realms Shattering Events. I'm sick and tired of them and I want to take the next such idea into the palm of my hands, squish it together, throw it onto the ground, stomp on it, sprinkle arsenic on it, toss it into a vat of acid, let a Balor chew it up and defecate it out, and then polymorph it into a red-headed stepchild so I can slap it. You may do. Others would disagree. |
| Caligula09-17-05, 02:49 PM | As Krash (who is indeed semi-affiliated with WotC.. Sort of.. I think) said before, WotC will not do this often (or at all) because all of the adventures that they write are taken as canon. You said that the results of your game will not effect FR for other players, but that doesn't change the fact that in the end, there are only two possible conclusions (with some variations on each) to the adventure: the adventurers lose or they fail. So, no matter what, if WotC published such huge, epic adventures, the Realms would be changed significantly in some area of concern or region. It's up to the DM to decide how significantly he wants his players to change the Realms in his campaign... Not WotC. Well, I at least prefer adventures that have an impact on the surroundings. Whatīs the point of playing adventures for medium and high level PCīs that donīt have any impact on the world? I really donīt get your standpoint here. There SHOULD be dire consequences for Faerun, or a specific country/region if the PCīs fail their mission. Thatīs the whole point. CotSQ deals with this in a very straight forward manner which I found excellent. It adds a very distinct feeling of importance to the mission, and it gives realism and shows that the PCīs are part of an interveawing history! |
| jim931109-17-05, 03:38 PM | They should just make the adventure modules an online subscription. That way the fans get what they want and there is no cost for the printing of materials. Sure it still takes some time on the writers part but I am pretty sure they would more than cover their cost. Just a thought. This is a great idea. But I suspect that they would have priracy fears. If it is a PDF, one person could download and make copies for everyone. I am not sure how they can get around that, but i like the idea. |
| GothicDan09-17-05, 05:25 PM | Thats not correct. This issue has been discussed many times, most recently below. Where did you get this idea?.. The fabled "safety net" dosent exist. No-one, repeat, no-one plays the realms like that. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=498762&page=1&pp=30 That's the opinion of some. I don't care how people "play FR"; it's how FR exists and how WotC runs it that matters. Ive heard this a number of times, but seen no official declaration that this is correct. So i may have missed something (quite possible), pls point to your source for this statement. Uh. The WotSQ books became part of the setting. The Drizzt books did. The Avatar Trilogy did. And most recently, the adventures regarding Thakorsil's Throne, Eltab, and Szass Tam have been plainly written into canon. As to a person to reference? Krash. As I said, he knows at least something of the workings of WotC as he has worked for them before. We have plenty of experience to show that this is the way things work in FR, such as those cases I stated above. You may do. Others would disagree. Which was the point I was trying to get across to you when you used such abolutes in your statements. :) |
| GothicDan09-17-05, 05:26 PM | Well, I at least prefer adventures that have an impact on the surroundings. Whatīs the point of playing adventures for medium and high level PCīs that donīt have any impact on the world? I really donīt get your standpoint here. I'm not saying that they shouldn't. But it should be up the DMs just how drastically they want their PCs to affect the world, and where they want them to affect it. Some DMs (most, in fact) do not run high level games at all, and so would probably not want Faerun being wracked by Realms Shaking Events every few months. |
| Yom Beekus09-18-05, 06:35 PM | I tend to follow the same path as Kuje. But I will ocassionaly use a published module when I don't have time to put my thoughts down for an up coming game. Generally, I write my own stuff, designed around what suits my players style and game. Even though I probably won't run SoG, I still bought it for reading purposes and some background info on the areas within the adventure. |
| tariff09-18-05, 07:17 PM | That's the opinion of some. I don't care how people "play FR"; it's how FR exists and how WotC runs it that matters. No, there is knowwhere where it says Elminster will and come and save your butts if you fail. Thats just a myth. And pls, if you know better, point to where it states that fact. Uh. The WotSQ books became part of the setting. The Drizzt books did. The Avatar Trilogy did. And most recently, the adventures regarding Thakorsil's Throne, Eltab, and Szass Tam have been plainly written into canon. We are not talking about books, we are talking about modules. I'm not saying that they shouldn't. But it should be up the DMs just how drastically they want their PCs to affect the world, and where they want them to affect it. Some DMs (most, in fact) do not run high level games at all, and so would probably not want Faerun being wracked by Realms Shaking Events every few months. Every few months?..... When was the last FR module that produced a realm shaking event????. CoTSQ?.., um, how long ago was that?. I think a world shaking event every 3 years or so is pretty much ok. |
| Krash09-18-05, 08:03 PM | Published FR modules have always operated on the basis that the PCs (or whoever 'does them') win. The clearest example is the adventure that came with the 2E Spellbound boxed set - where Szass Tam was binding the demon Eltab with artifacts and spells. When those same artifacts were written up in "Volo's Guide to All Things Magical", the story WENT ON to say that Szass Tam had been thwarted in his efforts to bind Eltab to his will by adventurers. Now, if in my campaign my PCs hadn't won the day, or prevented the ritual or had in fact allied with Szass etc. etc. my campaign would have quite clearly diverged from what was considered to be the Realms status quo in the here and now. Simply, that is the danger with FR mega-modules (sorry for the old school terminology) dealing with areas of the Realms that have received coverage and details in 3E and previous editions. The CotSQ adventure is a different beast entirely to what you are actually proposing. Maerimydra and that section of the Underdark was up until that adventure was published, pretty much a blank cypher - where there is no detail in the published Realms, WotC have the latitude to do what they want - create, destroy, run amok if they like. In places like Thay, Aglarond, Waterdeep et. al. the effect on a gazillion campaigns that a mega-adventure would have if it involved outright destruction or changes in the Faerunian landscape would cause lots of DMs to howl in protest if all their hard work and DM-ing was invalidated. And I'll give you another scenario: every 6 months WotC produce a mega-FR adventure allowing PCs to defeat and conquer (in no particular order) Thay, the Zhentarim, the Shades, the Twisted Rune, Larloch, Menzoberranzan, the morkoth of Seros, the yuan-ti of Najara, Obould and his orcs, the fey'ri, the Night Masks etc. etc. Don't you reckon that after 6-8 years that the Realms is going to be a pretty boring place to adventure in - considering you've wiped out all the baddies through official products and hence made all that adventurer do-gooding, for want of a better term, canon? No. You want to change the landscape of Faerun? Do it in your campaign, not mine. -- George Krashos |
| GothicDan09-18-05, 08:07 PM | Every few months?..... When was the last FR module that produced a realm shaking event????. CoTSQ?.., um, how long ago was that?. I think a world shaking event every 3 years or so is pretty much ok. WotSQ (which as Krash pointed out, I do not believe would even really count as a RSE), the current Myth Drannoran Fey'ri, the Return of the Shades, the attack on Evermeet, the return of Bane, to name a few. Which is already about 3 too many for the past 5 years. |
| Alac Luin09-18-05, 08:50 PM | I don't understand why a "mega adventure" need to be a RSE. One about Zents, they are trying to gain a new trade route, and or corner the market of drug/slave/illegal magic/spice/furniture in an area. Starting off at 2nd level, you travel to many cites, gain info, fight orcs, get involved with a trading coaster, free some slaves, gain 10 levels, and then thwart the zent plans. If the PCs fail, the price for unfinished duskwood furniture increases 10%, which is offset by a 5% drop in price for many other items due to a new trade route being opened. and some slaves remain slaves and the druggies buy from the same source. Wow, I just made it sound like an adventurer's job is pointless. :confused: |
| warlockco09-18-05, 09:05 PM | Wow, I just made it sound like an adventurer's job is pointless. :confused: Often times it is. :D ;) aka A Hero's Work IS NEVER DONE. |
| Krash09-18-05, 09:42 PM | I don't understand why a "mega adventure" need to be a RSE. One about Zents, they are trying to gain a new trade route, and or corner the market of drug/slave/illegal magic/spice/furniture in an area. Starting off at 2nd level, you travel to many cites, gain info, fight orcs, get involved with a trading coaster, free some slaves, gain 10 levels, and then thwart the zent plans. If the PCs fail, the price for unfinished duskwood furniture increases 10%, which is offset by a 5% drop in price for many other items due to a new trade route being opened. and some slaves remain slaves and the druggies buy from the same source. Wow, I just made it sound like an adventurer's job is pointless. :confused: I couldn't agree with you more - adventures focusing on defeating the Zhents or the Thayans or the Big Bad Nasty Evil People on a localised level should be produced in abundance by WotC. -- George Krashos |
| tariff09-19-05, 05:11 AM | Published FR modules have always operated on the basis that the PCs (or whoever 'does them') win. The clearest example is the adventure that came with the 2E Spellbound boxed set - where Szass Tam was binding the demon Eltab with artifacts and spells. When those same artifacts were written up in "Volo's Guide to All Things Magical", the story WENT ON to say that Szass Tam had been thwarted in his efforts to bind Eltab to his will by adventurers. Now, if in my campaign my PCs hadn't won the day, or prevented the ritual or had in fact allied with Szass etc. etc. my campaign would have quite clearly diverged from what was considered to be the Realms status quo in the here and now. Thats 2nd edition... we are now in 3.5 and have been for a while. And most groups i know, if they fail a module the first time will take another group in until they succeed. So i think thats fair enuff on wizards part to pressume the adventurers will in the end win. But its the adventurers who win, not some "save the day" npc's. Simply, that is the danger with FR mega-modules (sorry for the old school terminology) dealing with areas of the Realms that have received coverage and details in 3E and previous editions. The CotSQ adventure is a different beast entirely to what you are actually proposing. Maerimydra and that section of the Underdark was up until that adventure was published, pretty much a blank cypher - where there is no detail in the published Realms, WotC have the latitude to do what they want - create, destroy, run amok if they like. In places like Thay, Aglarond, Waterdeep et. al. the effect on a gazillion campaigns that a mega-adventure would have if it involved outright destruction or changes in the Faerunian landscape would cause lots of DMs to howl in protest if all their hard work and DM-ing was invalidated. Um..i wasnt, and nor was anyone else, proposing anything more than large detailed adventures like the CoTSQ.. Which you now seem to feel is ok because it was set in an area, with people, that dosent really effect canon..... That was my point exactly. And I'll give you another scenario: every 6 months WotC produce a mega-FR adventure allowing PCs to defeat and conquer (in no particular order) Thay, the Zhentarim, the Shades, the Twisted Rune, Larloch, Menzoberranzan, the morkoth of Seros, the yuan-ti of Najara, Obould and his orcs, the fey'ri, the Night Masks etc. etc. Don't you reckon that after 6-8 years that the Realms is going to be a pretty boring place to adventure in - considering you've wiped out all the baddies through official products and hence made all that adventurer do-gooding, for want of a better term, canon? No. You want to change the landscape of Faerun? Do it in your campaign, not mine. Um no, because these groups have many "cells". We are not talking complete destruction of all zhentarim everywhere..a complete genocide. We are talking large campaigns that make you feel like you are confronting major players. Like one of my players said when faced with the zhentarim "They are like scrotal warts, just when you think youve got rid of them..another one pops up!". |
| Caligula09-26-05, 12:59 PM | And I'll give you another scenario: every 6 months WotC produce a mega-FR adventure allowing PCs to defeat and conquer (in no particular order) Thay, the Zhentarim, the Shades, the Twisted Rune, Larloch, Menzoberranzan, the morkoth of Seros, the yuan-ti of Najara, Obould and his orcs, the fey'ri, the Night Masks etc. etc. Don't you reckon that after 6-8 years that the Realms is going to be a pretty boring place to adventure in - considering you've wiped out all the baddies through official products and hence made all that adventurer do-gooding, for want of a better term, canon? No. You want to change the landscape of Faerun? Do it in your campaign, not mine. -- George Krashos Well, I donīt think the PCs will win every single fight all the time. If they do, youīre not doing a good job as DM. The groups you mention (Thay, Zhentarims, etc) are very powerful groups, and even if the PCs kill one of their leaders, many will follow. If you play a campaign with good aligned PCs, which most players do, itīs just a matter of time before they will have a major conflict with the beformentioned groups! What I think is odd, is that Wizards have failed to address the need and ant of us players regarding long adventure modules with cool Forgotten Realms settings and NPCs in them! The City of the Spiderqueen was awesome, but one module in 2002 and nothing thereafter? Thatīs way off mark! However, I am positive. I think Wizards are clever guys and that they understand the importance of publishing official FR-adventures with the leading bad guys in them! |
| Caligula09-26-05, 01:02 PM | Published FR modules have always operated on the basis that the PCs (or whoever 'does them') win. -- George Krashos I think youīre wrong their buddy! Most adventures I have bought the last 10 years to D&D have advanced solutions for a defeated group of heroes. As an example I would like to highlight CotSQ that in detail describes what happens if the PCs fail their mission day-by-day. D&D is a very deadly game, and it should be. That adds flavor! |
| Krash09-26-05, 08:31 PM | That's for your personal, individual campaign. In the published Realms you are not going to see a sourcebook on the Dalelands at any time in the future predicated on the adventurers who deal with CotSQ 'losing' and thereby devastating the region. So my former comment stands. Every 2E adventure dealing with Realms-changing matters have been followed up by products or novels which have confirmed the success of the faceless adventurers. These include the adventure in the Spellbound boxed set and FA1 Halls of the High King set in the Moonshaes. You'll find the same thing will happen in the future with CotSQ. -- George Krashos |
| Caligula09-27-05, 10:38 AM | That's for your personal, individual campaign. In the published Realms you are not going to see a sourcebook on the Dalelands at any time in the future predicated on the adventurers who deal with CotSQ 'losing' and thereby devastating the region. So my former comment stands. Every 2E adventure dealing with Realms-changing matters have been followed up by products or novels which have confirmed the success of the faceless adventurers. These include the adventure in the Spellbound boxed set and FA1 Halls of the High King set in the Moonshaes. You'll find the same thing will happen in the future with CotSQ. -- George Krashos Well, perhaps you can start with reading the adventure-module "City of the Spiderqueen". There youīll find a very clearcut description what will happen to the Dales if the PCs fail. The darkness of the Drows grows ever stronger, but eventually the people of the Dales manages to defeat the Drow and push them back down to the Underdark. So itīs not always that the defeated PCs will mean total change in Faerun. The heroes we play are not all alone on the good side. You however seem to prefer a permanent status quo in Faerun. How do you play that? Every session takes place in an inn somewhere playing dice? |
| Kuje3109-27-05, 11:59 AM | I'd like to point out that Lost Empires tells us how that Spider Queen adventure ended and it didn't end with the destruction of the Dales. :) |
| Hutchimus Prime09-27-05, 03:21 PM | Just out of curiousity, and a little off topic, where in Lost Empires does it say how City of the Spider Queen ends? |
| Kuje3109-27-05, 04:24 PM | Just out of curiousity, and a little off topic, where in Lost Empires does it say how City of the Spider Queen ends?' Page 120, under Dordrien, "...lead to a drow outpost called Szith Morcane in the Upper Underdark. Drow refugees from the recently destroyed city of Maerimydra had been using the crypts as a staging ground for surface raids until adventurers hired by Randal Morn, ruler of Daggerdale, ended that effort." |
| Caligula09-28-05, 08:04 PM | ' Page 120, under Dordrien, "...lead to a drow outpost called Szith Morcane in the Upper Underdark. Drow refugees from the recently destroyed city of Maerimydra had been using the crypts as a staging ground for surface raids until adventurers hired by Randal Morn, ruler of Daggerdale, ended that effort." That might be the case, but every campaign is itīs own universe, AND the module CotSQ describes thorougly what happens IF the PCs were to fail their mission. In that case, the Drow would ruin and conquer huge parts of the Dales. Thatīs how it would be in your campaign IF your players were to fail their mission. Thatīs not totally impossible if you read through the module. Itīs very tough, and itīs for 4 PCs only. Thatīs very tough indeed! I still think you guys are to buzy discussing FR-changing events. Each campaign is unique, and should be! What Iīm asking about in this thread is MORE, BETTER and BIGGER adventures set in the FRCS. Weīve had only 2 real FR adventures the last 3,5 years! Thatīs way to little! Right? |
| Kuje3109-28-05, 08:13 PM | That might be the case, but every campaign is itīs own universe, AND the module CotSQ describes thorougly what happens IF the PCs were to fail their mission. In that case, the Drow would ruin and conquer huge parts of the Dales. Thatīs how it would be in your campaign IF your players were to fail their mission. Thatīs not totally impossible if you read through the module. Itīs very tough, and itīs for 4 PCs only. Thatīs very tough indeed! I still think you guys are to buzy discussing FR-changing events. Each campaign is unique, and should be! What Iīm asking about in this thread is MORE, BETTER and BIGGER adventures set in the FRCS. Weīve had only 2 real FR adventures the last 3,5 years! Thatīs way to little! Right? However George and I aren't discussion our campains, we are discussing the canon WOTC setting and thus the drow did not overrun the dales. Now if you want that to happen, have fun. I for one am tired of Realms Shaking Events and as George said, modules set in the canon realms always usually end with in game adventurers ending the events of said modules. And no I don't agree its to little because as I said before, I don't use modules. I write my own adventures that tie in with the current group of PC's. I only buy FR adventures for the lore and I'll never run them. And I, for one, want WOTC to keep making money even though I complain about the errors in realmslore but if they start losing money on modules again then I want them to stop making them. |
| Caligula09-28-05, 08:23 PM | However George and I aren't discussion our campains, we are discussing the canon WOTC setting and thus the drow did not overrun the dales. Now if you want that to happen, have fun. I for one am tired of Realms Shaking Events and as George said, modules set in the canon realms always usually end with in game adventurers ending the events of said modules. And no I don't agree its to little because as I said before, I don't use modules. I write my own adventures that tie in with the current group of PC's. I only buy FR adventures for the lore and I'll never run them. Well, perhaps you should participate in another thread then, or start your own. This thread was started to discuss the lack of, and the need for, more official FR adventures. |
| Nevynxxx09-29-05, 04:43 AM | This is a great idea. But I suspect that they would have priracy fears. If it is a PDF, one person could download and make copies for everyone. I am not sure how they can get around that, but i like the idea. Ask pazio (spelling??). You can buy dungeon and dragon online. They have a program that puts a time/date/your name/your membership code stamp as a footer on every page. Totally unobtrusive, and very very easy to trace who gave it who, and ban them. Also, look on P2P sites, it doesn't take long for new published stuff ot make it onto the net, the electronic form would be not a lot easier to copy. @ Caligula.....They are offering the idea that there *shouldn't* be more published modules, or rather more high level published modules. That is perfectly on topic. You can't just say "you don't agree with me go away". Accept their point of view. |