What if... [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

What if... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
White_Wizard
03-23-06, 07:58 AM This thread will speak about novels, but only in relation to a campaign I'm building up, which is based on a "what if..." kind of history, so I don't think I'm violating the code of conduct. If it is so, I'm sorry and I will accept the lock of this thread (I hope it will not be needed).

A little bit of introduction first: I was requested from my players to build a campaign for drow PCs set in the Underdark. I had no idea about what to do (well, a lot of ideas, but non which seemed particualry good or intriguing to me) when, reading (for the 10th time!) "Homeland" by RA Salvatore I found myself asking: what if Drizzt wouldn't have saved Ellifain that night?
And that it was: an idea for my next campaign. I found it very good and interesting as a setting for a capaign, so that I chose to post it here: feel free to comment, criticize, give ideas.......

The campaign is set in Menzoberranzan 1370 DR
The following changes happened to the plot:
a) the night of the raid Drizzt was placed in another place, where a little group of elves was able to organyze into a fighting group. Drizzt, driven by necessity, killed 3 elves that night and never saw the little Ellifain or her mother. The first step toward corruption was done.
b) Lolth continues to favor House Do'Urden and the House, in the years following, easily climbs up the pyramidal social order of Menzoberranzan, reaching the rank of 3rd House of Menzoberranzan (every other house is wiped out in various fights. Of these House Do'Urden wipes out Hun'ett and, Myzzrim, the others are wiped out in other conflicts. House Oblodra dies in the same way as shown in Siege of Darkness - the opportunist Pharaun betrays his house and becomes Pharaun Do'Urden, Wizard of House Do'Urden and he is Wiz14)
c) Drizzt gains more levels as a fighter than in the ranger class; now he is Ftr14/Rgr2, he chose the ranged fighting style from the ranger class and picked up the two-weapon fighting style with fighter bonus levels. He uses Guenwhyvar as a backup when he has to deal with priestesses of Lolth as an assassin. He owns a +4 drow manufacture keen adamantine scimitar and a +4 wounding adamantine scimitar, a +2 drow chainmail (same as elven chainmail), symbol of House Do'Urden (levitation, speak with animals each 3 times per day), pwawfwi cloack, drow boots (same as elven boots) and he has the Highborn drow feat in place of Daylight Adaptation. He grew similar to Zak and is CN.
d) House Do'Urden has a total of 600 drow common soldiers. Briza is planning to leave the House and create her own, while Maya plans to kill Vierna (she doesn't dare, though, because she fears both Drizzt and Zaknafein) and Dantrag Baenre plans to challenge Zaknafein, but does not dare to do it because he knows that Drizzt will aid his father. They may (in my campaign they will) join toghether to help each other's aims.
e) Artemis Entreri killed easily Regis and now he owns the ruby pendant. This is relevant because after that he killed pasha Pook due to his allegiance with Rassiter (who got killed too) and then forced to flee north to avoid revenge from those clans who feared that he may become too powerful. Jarlaxle took contact with him more or less in the same way he may have took contact in the real novel storyline and brought him to Menzoberranzan as a member of Braegan d'aerthe. House Do'Urden used him many times, even in cases of war, during which he fought side by side to Zak and Drizzt (two houses tried to attack House Do'Urden, but they failed).

My PCs are members of Braegan d'aerthe. I don't know which classes will they choose. They will start at level 5. The idea is that they will gradually come to know the intrigues of, for example, Dantrag and Maya, or plots of some house to weaken House Do'Urden (on this purpose House Barrison del'Armgo fears a lot House Do'Urden).
Ripe
03-23-06, 09:54 AM Ok, here is my oppinion of your plot:

a) that could happen and I have no problem with that

b) first, Pharaun is son of Matron Mizzrym which mean that under drow law he must be killed when his House is attacked so he would NEVER betray his House no matter how opportunistic he is; second wars between Rulling Houses are very rare and happen very sporadicaly (the last century is considered the MOST chaotic in entire Menzoberranzan history [over 5000 years] with removal of 5 Houses from the Rulling Council) so having 7 Houses destroyed is almost imposible (even more so considering that the combined forces of the city could not destroy House Agrach Dyrr, and that House Baenre is beyond ability of any 4-5 Houses combined to destroy it)

c) Drizzt's Ranger level's came from his training with Montolio, and since he would not leave Menzo he would not gain them (so you may put him as Ftr 16 [or Ftr 18] or you may give him a level or two of rogue)

d) Briza is Matron Malice's older daughter and her heir to the title of Matron and seat at the Rulling council. There is no way she would give that up so she could run her own House a 2 or 3 centuries earlier. Vierna or Maya are much better choice for that

e) under Drow law, if two Houses attack one both are to be destroyed [and there is no need for witnesses in this case, so they might actually suceed in destroying House they attacked].

But if you want a Underdark campaign in Menzo why don't you do what my group did several years ago [and what another poster did on this forum few months ago]: Make your PC's nobles of a minor House [ranked between 50th and 60th position in the city] and have them develop their own House and their raise to greatnes which would mean scouting and attacking higher ranked House to improve their station, defending their House from attacks by other Houses, establishing trade routes with the surface (to gain more money so to improve House defenses), etc.

My group started as 62nd House and after 6 years of playing we managed to reach 23rd rank in a city.
White_Wizard
03-24-06, 03:56 AM First of all, thanks for your suggestions, they bring me to clarify the campaign project.
The idea of making the PCs members of minor noble houses is very good and way better than my previous idea.
As for Pharaun's betrayal there are two things I didn't explain before (my fault): I took the hint of this by two episodes in the Drizzt's saga: Vierna being saved from Do'Urden's destruction by House Baenre and Si'Nafay becoming (briefly) 'daughter' to Matron Malice. And the other thing is that drow law is not that strict as long as you don't get caught in the act. That said I know that there's a little bending here, but in my plot House Do'Urden nearly comes to rival House Baenre and I needed a wizard capable of standing against Gromph.
As for Drizzt's levels, I know that there is a lot of debate about his class levels and I assume that at he got least a few levels in the ranger class in Menzoberranzan when he patrolled the Bauthwaf along with his academy fellows.
I think I will get rid of Briza's plan for a new House: after all it isn't that great plot to explore and therefore I think you are right about it.
The chaotic relevance of the fight between drow high rank Houses was intended. Without Drizzt at his side, Bruenor couldn't rediscover Mithral Hall: Wulfgar is not that fine warrior without Drizzt's teachings, Regis is killed by Entreri and I'm not sure that Bruenor and Cattie-brie survived the encounter with the assassin (luckily I will not have to deal with this in Menzo!). (Another thing is that I will not include Entreri in the plot). Without Mithral Hall to conquer, which Lolth used as a way to give a new input of chaos in the city of Menzoberranzan, I think that the Spider Queen would have found another way to plant the seed of chaos in Menzo, and this seed, in my plot, was a cruel fight between the dominant houses.
As always I would be pleased to know opinions, suggestions etc. thanks a lot.
Ripe
03-24-06, 03:44 PM Well, does it have to be Pharaun?

Because both of those cases you mentioned are unique. In Vierna's (and Dinin's) case it is the simple matter that House Baenre is seeminglly exempt from drow law and can break it with impunity. In Si'Nafay Hun'ett's case, the fact is that she was directly ordered by Lolth to attack House Do'Urden. And I don't think that any of those circumstances fit your situation.

So you may make this change:
House Do'Urden destroys Houses De Vir, Hun'ett and Mizzrym.
House Oblodra destroys House Faen Tlabbar before it's destroyed by Lolth following ToT.
House Agrach Dyrr destroys House Xorlarrin. Kharza-khad Xorlarrin seek and recive refuge from House Do'Urden.

That would make House Do'Urden 4th House in Menzoberranzan. And Kharza-khad is considered finest wand maker in entire Menzoberranzan and Gromph selected him as tutor and mentor to his daughter Liriel in her wizardly training.
White_Wizard
03-25-06, 04:38 AM Thanks a lot: I didn't have a precise dynamic in mind for the wars between the ruling hoses, and I think I will use yours.

I used Pharaun because my players (well, most of them) know the War of the Spider Queen series (well, here in my country we are at the 4th book out of 6) and he was the first to come into my mind. On the other side Kharza could make a fine choice with his apparent harmlessness. And he may become a fine contact to my players if they search for wands and the like. I will seriously think about it.
Ripe
03-25-06, 09:13 AM OK, since you're determined to use Pharaun, make this change:
House Duskryn destroys House Mizzrym and Pharaun hide within House Do'Urden in much the same way Alton DeVir hid in House Hun'ett [and you may keep Kharza's story as I proposed, giving House Do'Urden two Masters of Sorcere among their rank].

In any case this would be top eight Houses after those events:
1. Baenre
2. Barrison Del'Armgo
3. Agrach Dyrr
4. Do'Urden
5. Fey Branche
6. Tuin'Tarl
7. Duskryn
8. Srune'lett

You could also make some minor House destroy House Tuin'Tarl [since it is rather weak] which would move Houses Duskryn and Srune'lett a station up the ladder and would put House Horlblar in eighth spot. And off course following WotSQ storyline you'd remove House Agrach Dyrr moving all Houses bellow them up one rank.
Coulian
03-25-06, 10:18 AM I also have a suggestion. Let the Phearun's house be destroyed by one of the other houses in the ruling council and he is the only one to escape. Let him claim the right of accusation( think i forgot the correct term already) and the attacker of his has been destroyed by the academy. Now since he doesn't have a house, let house do'urden offer to adopt him and since phaerun would most likely prefer to remain a noble rather than a homeless rogue, he will definately accept house do'urden's offer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
White_Wizard 03-23-06, 07:58 AM	This thread will speak about novels, but only in relation to a campaign I'm building up, which is based on a "what if..." kind of history, so I don't think I'm violating the code of conduct. If it is so, I'm sorry and I will accept the lock of this thread (I hope it will not be needed). A little bit of introduction first: I was requested from my players to build a campaign for drow PCs set in the Underdark. I had no idea about what to do (well, a lot of ideas, but non which seemed particualry good or intriguing to me) when, reading (for the 10th time!) "Homeland" by RA Salvatore I found myself asking: what if Drizzt wouldn't have saved Ellifain that night? And that it was: an idea for my next campaign. I found it very good and interesting as a setting for a capaign, so that I chose to post it here: feel free to comment, criticize, give ideas....... The campaign is set in Menzoberranzan 1370 DR The following changes happened to the plot: a) the night of the raid Drizzt was placed in another place, where a little group of elves was able to organyze into a fighting group. Drizzt, driven by necessity, killed 3 elves that night and never saw the little Ellifain or her mother. The first step toward corruption was done. b) Lolth continues to favor House Do'Urden and the House, in the years following, easily climbs up the pyramidal social order of Menzoberranzan, reaching the rank of 3rd House of Menzoberranzan (every other house is wiped out in various fights. Of these House Do'Urden wipes out Hun'ett and, Myzzrim, the others are wiped out in other conflicts. House Oblodra dies in the same way as shown in Siege of Darkness - the opportunist Pharaun betrays his house and becomes Pharaun Do'Urden, Wizard of House Do'Urden and he is Wiz14) c) Drizzt gains more levels as a fighter than in the ranger class; now he is Ftr14/Rgr2, he chose the ranged fighting style from the ranger class and picked up the two-weapon fighting style with fighter bonus levels. He uses Guenwhyvar as a backup when he has to deal with priestesses of Lolth as an assassin. He owns a +4 drow manufacture keen adamantine scimitar and a +4 wounding adamantine scimitar, a +2 drow chainmail (same as elven chainmail), symbol of House Do'Urden (levitation, speak with animals each 3 times per day), pwawfwi cloack, drow boots (same as elven boots) and he has the Highborn drow feat in place of Daylight Adaptation. He grew similar to Zak and is CN. d) House Do'Urden has a total of 600 drow common soldiers. Briza is planning to leave the House and create her own, while Maya plans to kill Vierna (she doesn't dare, though, because she fears both Drizzt and Zaknafein) and Dantrag Baenre plans to challenge Zaknafein, but does not dare to do it because he knows that Drizzt will aid his father. They may (in my campaign they will) join toghether to help each other's aims. e) Artemis Entreri killed easily Regis and now he owns the ruby pendant. This is relevant because after that he killed pasha Pook due to his allegiance with Rassiter (who got killed too) and then forced to flee north to avoid revenge from those clans who feared that he may become too powerful. Jarlaxle took contact with him more or less in the same way he may have took contact in the real novel storyline and brought him to Menzoberranzan as a member of Braegan d'aerthe. House Do'Urden used him many times, even in cases of war, during which he fought side by side to Zak and Drizzt (two houses tried to attack House Do'Urden, but they failed). My PCs are members of Braegan d'aerthe. I don't know which classes will they choose. They will start at level 5. The idea is that they will gradually come to know the intrigues of, for example, Dantrag and Maya, or plots of some house to weaken House Do'Urden (on this purpose House Barrison del'Armgo fears a lot House Do'Urden).
Ripe 03-23-06, 09:54 AM	Ok, here is my oppinion of your plot: a) that could happen and I have no problem with that b) first, Pharaun is son of Matron Mizzrym which mean that under drow law he must be killed when his House is attacked so he would NEVER betray his House no matter how opportunistic he is; second wars between Rulling Houses are very rare and happen very sporadicaly (the last century is considered the MOST chaotic in entire Menzoberranzan history [over 5000 years] with removal of 5 Houses from the Rulling Council) so having 7 Houses destroyed is almost imposible (even more so considering that the combined forces of the city could not destroy House Agrach Dyrr, and that House Baenre is beyond ability of any 4-5 Houses combined to destroy it) c) Drizzt's Ranger level's came from his training with Montolio, and since he would not leave Menzo he would not gain them (so you may put him as Ftr 16 [or Ftr 18] or you may give him a level or two of rogue) d) Briza is Matron Malice's older daughter and her heir to the title of Matron and seat at the Rulling council. There is no way she would give that up so she could run her own House a 2 or 3 centuries earlier. Vierna or Maya are much better choice for that e) under Drow law, if two Houses attack one both are to be destroyed [and there is no need for witnesses in this case, so they might actually suceed in destroying House they attacked]. But if you want a Underdark campaign in Menzo why don't you do what my group did several years ago [and what another poster did on this forum few months ago]: Make your PC's nobles of a minor House [ranked between 50th and 60th position in the city] and have them develop their own House and their raise to greatnes which would mean scouting and attacking higher ranked House to improve their station, defending their House from attacks by other Houses, establishing trade routes with the surface (to gain more money so to improve House defenses), etc. My group started as 62nd House and after 6 years of playing we managed to reach 23rd rank in a city.
White_Wizard 03-24-06, 03:56 AM	First of all, thanks for your suggestions, they bring me to clarify the campaign project. The idea of making the PCs members of minor noble houses is very good and way better than my previous idea. As for Pharaun's betrayal there are two things I didn't explain before (my fault): I took the hint of this by two episodes in the Drizzt's saga: Vierna being saved from Do'Urden's destruction by House Baenre and Si'Nafay becoming (briefly) 'daughter' to Matron Malice. And the other thing is that drow law is not that strict as long as you don't get caught in the act. That said I know that there's a little bending here, but in my plot House Do'Urden nearly comes to rival House Baenre and I needed a wizard capable of standing against Gromph. As for Drizzt's levels, I know that there is a lot of debate about his class levels and I assume that at he got least a few levels in the ranger class in Menzoberranzan when he patrolled the Bauthwaf along with his academy fellows. I think I will get rid of Briza's plan for a new House: after all it isn't that great plot to explore and therefore I think you are right about it. The chaotic relevance of the fight between drow high rank Houses was intended. Without Drizzt at his side, Bruenor couldn't rediscover Mithral Hall: Wulfgar is not that fine warrior without Drizzt's teachings, Regis is killed by Entreri and I'm not sure that Bruenor and Cattie-brie survived the encounter with the assassin (luckily I will not have to deal with this in Menzo!). (Another thing is that I will not include Entreri in the plot). Without Mithral Hall to conquer, which Lolth used as a way to give a new input of chaos in the city of Menzoberranzan, I think that the Spider Queen would have found another way to plant the seed of chaos in Menzo, and this seed, in my plot, was a cruel fight between the dominant houses. As always I would be pleased to know opinions, suggestions etc. thanks a lot.
Ripe 03-24-06, 03:44 PM	Well, does it have to be Pharaun? Because both of those cases you mentioned are unique. In Vierna's (and Dinin's) case it is the simple matter that House Baenre is seeminglly exempt from drow law and can break it with impunity. In Si'Nafay Hun'ett's case, the fact is that she was directly ordered by Lolth to attack House Do'Urden. And I don't think that any of those circumstances fit your situation. So you may make this change: House Do'Urden destroys Houses De Vir, Hun'ett and Mizzrym. House Oblodra destroys House Faen Tlabbar before it's destroyed by Lolth following ToT. House Agrach Dyrr destroys House Xorlarrin. Kharza-khad Xorlarrin seek and recive refuge from House Do'Urden. That would make House Do'Urden 4th House in Menzoberranzan. And Kharza-khad is considered finest wand maker in entire Menzoberranzan and Gromph selected him as tutor and mentor to his daughter Liriel in her wizardly training.
White_Wizard 03-25-06, 04:38 AM	Thanks a lot: I didn't have a precise dynamic in mind for the wars between the ruling hoses, and I think I will use yours. I used Pharaun because my players (well, most of them) know the War of the Spider Queen series (well, here in my country we are at the 4th book out of 6) and he was the first to come into my mind. On the other side Kharza could make a fine choice with his apparent harmlessness. And he may become a fine contact to my players if they search for wands and the like. I will seriously think about it.
Ripe 03-25-06, 09:13 AM	OK, since you're determined to use Pharaun, make this change: House Duskryn destroys House Mizzrym and Pharaun hide within House Do'Urden in much the same way Alton DeVir hid in House Hun'ett [and you may keep Kharza's story as I proposed, giving House Do'Urden two Masters of Sorcere among their rank]. In any case this would be top eight Houses after those events: 1. Baenre 2. Barrison Del'Armgo 3. Agrach Dyrr 4. Do'Urden 5. Fey Branche 6. Tuin'Tarl 7. Duskryn 8. Srune'lett You could also make some minor House destroy House Tuin'Tarl [since it is rather weak] which would move Houses Duskryn and Srune'lett a station up the ladder and would put House Horlblar in eighth spot. And off course following WotSQ storyline you'd remove House Agrach Dyrr moving all Houses bellow them up one rank.
Coulian 03-25-06, 10:18 AM	I also have a suggestion. Let the Phearun's house be destroyed by one of the other houses in the ruling council and he is the only one to escape. Let him claim the right of accusation( think i forgot the correct term already) and the attacker of his has been destroyed by the academy. Now since he doesn't have a house, let house do'urden offer to adopt him and since phaerun would most likely prefer to remain a noble rather than a homeless rogue, he will definately accept house do'urden's offer.