Post/Author/DateTime	Post
d4everman 12-04-06, 08:40 AM	I know this will seem like a dumb question but its been on my mind lately so I have to ask. What is the approximate level of technology in Faerun? I don't mean magical items, but mundane ones. I know that different folks will have different things in their games (some may allow firearms some may not) but I'm just trying to get an overall feel of it. Even though its difficult to approximate FR with real time Earth, I've often wondered about it. Is it dark ages technology wise? Renassiance level? This doesn't as much apply to the PC's but the NPC commoners. There are fuedal kingdoms, yet there are books. Are the books scribed or does the printing press exist? Does medical care outside of healing spells and potions consist of leeching and bleeding? Though heroes roam the land fighting for justice does justice sometimes consist of lashing, the rack or being tossed in a dungeon for as long as the local baron wills it? (I actually guess thats true considering the fuedal thing). Heck, do people bathe often or does everyone smell like a used sweatsock? I think this only comes to mind because medieval life pretty much sucked if you weren't a noble or very rich from what I've read and studied. I try to imagine what it must be like in this fantasy setting for an average person. I guess I'm trambling, its just a point of interest I have that I guess I'm not good at putting into words.
Ramenth 12-04-06, 12:44 PM	I believe most books are either scribed or magically coppied. Smokepowder weaponry is just beggining to take root in the realms at this point. As far as crossover to real life works... Well... it doesn't. They have pleanty of things we have due to magic, but little of the technology. By the same token, they also have interplanar spaceships. Medical Care outside of healing and potions consists of bandages. I'm not really sure why you'd not go to the village priest if you had something more serious and get a nice 'cure disease' or 'cure poison' for anything else. I'm not really sure how to answer this in terms of earth-ness. there's alot that they have that the middleages didn't, and there's alot they have that is exactly like the middle ages. And, realistically, they have pleanty of stuff we still dont have. If you can afford it, they have instant travel. They have flying cities. They have robots (golems). Beyond that, a lot also depends on where you live. Life in Waterdeep is far nicer than life in a small town in Vaasa.
MerrikCale 12-04-06, 12:59 PM	Its like a box of chochlates
Mathas 12-04-06, 01:55 PM	What is life in the FR's like. Well, all htings considered here, life in the FR setting is pretty much, in the broad spectrum of things, all npc's and geographical descriptions aside....entirely left up to the DM. True the campaign setting does go into a lot of detail of this and that such as the state of government, descirbing particualr locations in a region, describing certain npc's and how the people as a whole view things (sometimes), but life in FR is as said before, enitrely up to the DM. If the DM describes the lifestyle of lets say for example...the village of Nod in Southern Cormyr..asa village of farmers who are very proseprous and live comofortabley, most of their wealth gained from the capitol in which they provide most of the services a farmer would, then their lifestyle is probaly just that, a comfortable one with probably very few buildings in disrepair and among people of the village maybe one or two who would actually be classiffied as "bums".
wesleytj 12-04-06, 02:03 PM	I think I can safely borrow from Hobbes, and say that for most, life in Faerun would be "Nasty, brutish, and short". Between the multitude of monsters and animals rampaging through the realms, the influence of evil gods, demons, devils, and their followers, the large scale wars between empires, the sorry state of medical care and knowledge, and a complete lack of law and order anywhere outside the city walls, it's a wonder any make it to adulthood at all. Now, obviously, the forces of good, good gods and clerics, and good aligned casters would help some, but make no mistake: Living to see your 60's would be a major accomplishment.
wesleytj 12-04-06, 02:05 PM	Medical Care outside of healing and potions consists of bandages. I'm not really sure why you'd not go to the village priest if you had something more serious and get a nice 'cure disease' or 'cure poison' for anything else. Because most commoners could not afford a cure disease or cure poison, even if they pooled the resources of their entire family...
AngryBearsFan 12-04-06, 02:53 PM	There lies the problem. Does cure disease or poison take any reagents? Why is there a gold requirement for something that is free, and I dont think any LG Cleric would turn down people who were suffering if they had the power to heal them. That being said, not every village has a cleric. I am sure they have "healers" but they are just potion makers and probably most of them are quacks.
d4everman 12-04-06, 04:20 PM	I agree with you ABF. Your PC's might meet a lot of higher level clerics, but then they are exceptional people. There may be a few temples or shrines with a holy man or men in a small village, but they might be comparitively lower in power then the the people the PC's meet. If they are there at all, as you said. Hans the miller's son breaks his leg. The nearest cleric the villagers know of is miles away and Hans is in great pain. Remember that in a world without motorized transportation distance is a real factor. The local holy man is a cleric of Chauntea and he's good at binding minor wounds and even using divine power to heal a few scrapes, but a broken leg might just be beyond him. But then theres Myra, the local wierd old healer woman who is often helping the villagers with a bitter herbal broth to stave off colds and flu, and has a pretty good knowledge of the human body....she can fashion a splint and bind Hans leg and even give him some "root tea" for the pain. Since Hans isn't particarly a follower of Chauntea he sees Myra instead.
Lord Karsus 12-04-06, 06:13 PM	-The DMG has a passage late in the book that talks about campaign building. It specifically says not to get a fantasy adventure mixed up with that life was like in the Middle-Ages. Sure, there are many similarities, but there is one glaring difference- Magic. Sure, peasants might not be able to afford healing, but that is why there is a Priest of Lathander who makes a weekly trip into the 'burbs, to heal the sick and all. Maybe little Jimmy was feeling a little frisky, and actually succeeded at stealing that Wand of Healing that the caravan master was flaunting. -The FRCS also has a great deal of information about what the lives of the residents of Faerūn is like, as well as all of Ed's replies over at the 'Keep.
Asche 12-04-06, 08:23 PM	One of the most glaring inconsistencies with medieval times is the existence of the spell "Resurrection" and its variations. The mere existance of this spell means that death by unnatural means no longer is a way of removing someone, or something, permanently. Actually, killing any kind of monarch etc. now requires sophisticated means of preventing a resurrection spell, and its virtually impossible to kill an important person in a nation which has at least one known cleric with 9th level spell access, since 25.000 gold might be too much for the average noble to pay, but certainly not for an entire nation. I found this to be a major nuisance as DM btw, since it all but removes a lot of plotting to kill the king right off the bat.
Lord Karsus 12-04-06, 08:30 PM	One of the most glaring inconsistencies with medieval times is the existence of the spell "Resurrection" and its variations. The mere existance of this spell means that death by unnatural means no longer is a way of removing someone, or something, permanently. Actually, killing any kind of monarch etc. now requires sophisticated means of preventing a resurrection spell, and its virtually impossible to kill an important person in a nation which has at least one known cleric with 9th level spell access, since 25.000 gold might be too much for the average noble to pay, but certainly not for an entire nation. I found this to be a major nuisance as DM btw, since it all but removes a lot of plotting to kill the king right off the bat. -Most nations do not employ the Resurrection spell because of this. It screws royal succession.
Asche 12-04-06, 11:25 PM	Right, I remember reading about that in "Cormyr- A novel" well I suppose that would work for any Lawful realm well enough. In my realms, I simply adjusted the availability of Thinaun weapons a little :p
Karsus the Mad 12-05-06, 03:39 AM	What is the approximate level of technology in Faerun? I don't mean magical items, but mundane ones. Depends on what region. Lantan is inarguably the most technologically advanced region of FR. However, it's nigh impossible to use actual RL analogies of time periods to gauge tech-level simply because even without magic blending taken into account, tech in FR seems to work on completely different principles. I usually go with clockwork engineering and quasi-Girl Genius style steamworks but exagerate the possibilities somewhat. I also incorporate the technological whacky-ness found in the CRPG Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magicka Obscura. Afterall, if Lantan feels they can create a non-magical portal using clockworks and steampower, there really isn't much they couldn't do, regardless of how whacked out it may seem (despite that lil' quirk of electronic based tech not working...Lantan will use steam!:P). I think this only comes to mind because medieval life pretty much sucked if you weren't a noble or very rich from what I've read and studied. I try to imagine what it must be like in this fantasy setting for an average person. I guess I'm trambling, its just a point of interest I have that I guess I'm not good at putting into words. Generally, life wasn't all that bad. It was hard work, sure, sometimes you didn't eat for the day, sure, there was the possibility of disease or being killed, sure. None of that has changed tho'. The idea of cruel warlords needlessly slaughtering their subjects, etc is mostly baseless (not that it didn't happen, but it wasn't as common as people believe) for one simple reason: You don't destroy your support foundation. In fact, you invest as much as you can to keep it as safe and functioning as possible. If you don't, you're not going to be 'lord of the land' for long.
wesleytj 12-05-06, 08:32 AM	Generally, life wasn't all that bad. It was hard work, sure, sometimes you didn't eat for the day, sure, there was the possibility of disease or being killed, sure. None of that has changed tho'. You're kidding right? By the standards of the peasants of the middle ages, I've done perhaps 2 or 3 days of "hard work" in my life. I've never contracted a major disease worse than chicken pox. I've never gone a day without food. I have risked being killed, but that was in car wrecks, which is not something they had to deal with. It's not like I had a chance of being attacked by marauding goths or something. And I'm 32. That's pretty old for the standards of the day back then. And it's not like I'm rich or anything. The idea of cruel warlords needlessly slaughtering their subjects, etc is mostly baseless (not that it didn't happen, but it wasn't as common as people believe) for one simple reason: You don't destroy your support foundation. In fact, you invest as much as you can to keep it as safe and functioning as possible. If you don't, you're not going to be 'lord of the land' for long. That part I agree with totally.
GothicDan 12-05-06, 08:36 AM	You're kidding right? By the standards of the peasants of the middle ages, I've done perhaps 2 or 3 days of "hard work" in my life. I've never contracted a major disease worse than chicken pox. I've never gone a day without food. I have risked being killed, but that was in car wrecks, which is not something they had to deal with. It's not like I had a chance of being attacked by marauding goths or something. Well, let's see. I'm pretty sure Camden ('right around the corner' from where I live, so to speak) had been reliably rated the most dangerous city in the country for many years. There were two severed heads found in a dumpster across the street from my house (right outside of the PINE BARRENS) a few years back... The only reason I'm not doing the 'hard work' thing is because I decided to go the academic route. That's a big leg up on the medieval peasants. I've had pneumonia twice, mono once, strept throat dozens of times, currently have a skin bacteria (everyone has it, but its latent in most people), have had food poisoning twice (once resulting in blood coming out of my stomach), and I've gone three days without food, once, and often go a day without food. Probably not QUITE as bad as your typical medieval peasant, but hardly worth a 'are you kidding!?' type of response on my part, I think. (And dying from old age is a terrible thing.)
Karsus the Mad 12-05-06, 11:45 AM	You're kidding right? Given the context of the era within which they existed, no I'm not kidding. People do what they have to do to survive and make life as comfortable as possible with what is available. That hasn't changed at all during human existence. The only thing that's changed is the method in which one is capable of doing so. I am of course speaking generally.
wesleytj 12-05-06, 02:12 PM	Given the context of the era within which they existed, no I'm not kidding. People do what they have to do to survive and make life as comfortable as possible with what is available. That hasn't changed at all during human existence. The only thing that's changed is the method in which one is capable of doing so. I am of course speaking generally. Well, sure, but the proviso "given the context of the era within which they existed" makes your statement meaningless, since the point of contention is the comparison between the two eras (then and now). People make the best of the situation within which they are placed. I certainly won't argue that. The peasants of the middle ages did what they could to get by, and so do I. If that's all you're trying to say, then fine, I'll agree. It's, as you say, the method in which we are capable of doing so that has changed, and that's the key point I was trying to focus on. Just take the simple example of the microwave oven, and compare the ease with which we acquire food to put in it compared to them, and you'll see how huge the difference is. How about washing clothing? Personal hygiene? etc etc. The cheap $10 bottle of wine you could go buy with very little hassle from the grocery store is of higher quality than kings had access to in the middle ages. Then there's the subject of medicine. I don't even have to go there. To brush that all under the rug with a statement like "given the context of the era in which they existed" makes the whole point of the thread meaningless.
GothicDan 12-05-06, 02:18 PM	It doesn't at all, since we do not know in large part what the "context in which the peasants of Faerun live." Many of us older players are very sad that WotC has not given much detail on this. We hoped that the PLAYER'S GUIDE would provide some insight, but that was the biggest bust of the entire edition...
Ramenth 12-05-06, 02:25 PM	Because most commoners could not afford a cure disease or cure poison, even if they pooled the resources of their entire family... Wow. Your town's priest/cleric must be evil aligned, I guess? And even then, an unfriendly sort of person. If a poor farmer comes into a temple of Lathander, they're going to heal him even if he's short on cash.
GothicDan 12-05-06, 02:30 PM	If for no other reason than Chautea, Lathander's main squeeze, would be a little upset if he let one of her farmers die... ;) Chauntea: "You're sleeping on the cosmic couch tonight, pretty-boy." Lathander: "Aw." *Goes to hang out with Milil, Apollo-style.* .... Yeah, it's MY imagination. You guys don't have to acknowledge it!
Ramenth 12-05-06, 02:34 PM	Aahahahaha. I can totally see that. Anyway, Westly, I think you're wrong about this. Don't assume that life is harder then than it is now. The difficulty is equal; The tasks are different. Life in the middle ages was increadibly hard on ones body, yes, but by the same token, they were not expected to accomplish what we accomplish today. The nature of life has changed enough that it's not the least bit fair to say they had it harder. That's an oppinion, not a fact. We, in the world of computers, the internet, and technology, are often putting in just as much time working as mideval peasants put it in, just in vastly different ways. You and I both feel that working with ones hands is significantly harder, but not everyone in the world agrees. Life is far more complex now than it was then.
ShadezofDis 12-05-06, 02:46 PM	Wow. Your town's priest/cleric must be evil aligned, I guess? And even then, an unfriendly sort of person. If a poor farmer comes into a temple of Lathander, they're going to heal him even if he's short on cash. That very much depends. If they are charging one set of people X price for healing and then they go ahead and let the farmer have the healing for a reduced price then all the people who paid full price are going to be pretty angry. Since these people paid full price it stands to reason that they are rather wealthy and wealth = power. The Lathanderites don't want to go around angering the wealthy people of a region. Now, if they made a deal with the farmer and he became a sort of vasal of the church (donating X portion of his harvest to the temple for Y amount of years) then I can see that working out. Anyhow, life very much varies in FR. Depends on who you are and where you are. Life is pretty good in Thay if you have power, otherwise it's pretty brutal, though if your just a peasant out in the fields it might not be unbearable, or even worse than a peasant farming outside of Waterdeep. I run the realms in a VERY feudal way, the quality of life depends on; The wealth that the land you're in has, The Lord/Lady/Merchants council/whoever controls the swords and how generous they happen to be, Any current conflicts happening in the region.
Faraer 12-05-06, 02:49 PM	Not a dumb question, because although all this information exists, it's very scattered in the sources.Is it dark ages technology wise? Renassiance level?It doesn't directly correspond to any of these, but generally late medieval in some ways, early Renaissance for others.There are fuedal kingdoms,Feudalism isn't common in the Realms.yet there are books. Are the books scribed or does the printing press exist?Mostly copied by hand. There is block printing, but not the printing press.Does medical care outside of healing spells and potions consist of leeching and bleeding?No, herb lore is effective, and the Realms doesn't have the fashion for bleeding that was a historical accident in our world. See Ed Greenwood's responses (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/so_saith_ed.htm) about medicine.Though heroes roam the land fighting for justice does justice sometimes consist of lashing, the rack or being tossed in a dungeon for as long as the local baron wills it?Yes. Some regimes are crueller than others.I think this only comes to mind because medieval life pretty much sucked if you weren't a noble or very rich from what I've read and studied.The Realms isn't medieval. Life is pleasanter for ordinary people, partly due to magic, mainly because this is somewhat idealized fiction, not historical re-enactment.I try to imagine what it must be like in this fantasy setting for an average person. I guess I'm trambling, its just a point of interest I have that I guess I'm not good at putting into words.It's one of the most important things to understand about the setting. Any more questions, ask them.I dont think any LG Cleric would turn down people who were suffering if they had the power to heal them.There isn't nearly enough magical healing to go round; and temples require upkeep.I am sure they have "healers" but they are just potion makers and probably most of them are quacks.Potions are magical. Most of them aren't quacks, though charlatans of course exist in towns.
GothicDan 12-05-06, 02:55 PM	It would be awesome to see a sourcebook along the lines of, "Life in Faerun," in which we were given example/archetypal layouts of what it's like to be members of specific strata of societies across various cultures, levels of wealth, different classes and how they interact with (and arise from) the common folk... And the like. That would be a book I'd scoop up.
wesleytj 12-05-06, 02:57 PM	It doesn't at all, since we do not know in large part what the "context in which the peasants of Faerun live." Sure we do, more or less. It's not that hard to extrapolate that they live like peasants did in Europe 600 years ago, with the addition of monsters and undead (bad), as well as magic and true divine intervention (both good and bad). For most of these people, the amount of effect these changes would have on everyday life would be minimal. Many of us older players are very sad that WotC has not given much detail on this. We hoped that the PLAYER'S GUIDE would provide some insight, but that was the biggest bust of the entire edition... I don't know, you put the PG with the CS and you have a pretty solid core set up for making a character in 3.5. Isn't that what it's for? I would think that the life of the average citizen woud be better handled in the "area" supplements, since it assuredly varies by region. Not that it's heavily covered there either, but honestly, how much time does a D&D campaign spend dealing with common peasants anyway? Aren't you usually more concerned with trying to eradicate the drow (or bugbear or gnoll or undead or whatever) threat to your peaceful little realm? As a DM, I need to know more about them than I do the schmoes that our PCs are saving.
wesleytj 12-05-06, 02:58 PM	It would be awesome to see a sourcebook along the lines of, "Life in Faerun," in which we were given example/archetypal layouts of what it's like to be members of specific strata of societies across various cultures, levels of wealth, different classes and how they interact with (and arise from) the common folk... And the like. That would be a book I'd scoop up. Despite what I just said, I would be interested in seeing this book as well. :)
GothicDan 12-05-06, 03:01 PM	Sure we do, more or less. It's not that hard to extrapolate that they live like peasants did in Europe 600 years ago, with the addition of monsters and undead (bad), as well as magic and true divine intervention (both good and bad). For most of these people, the amount of effect these changes would have on everyday life would be minimal. It's a canon fact that their lives are NOT the same as European peasants 600 years ago: their governments are very different, their statuses of living are different, MUCH more hygenic, more (not unlimited) healing available, much more effective herbalism, more advanced forms of altruism (remember, the cultures have been around for as long as modern ones, if not longer, regardless of their varying tech. levels), the peasants all KNOW that deities exist for a fact and they can gain their blessing directly, magically, if they are devout; no monolithic religious institutions directly influencing royalty (which is exceedingly rare in the first place)... The list goes on and on. As someone who studies history, you should KNOW that such differences add up a LOT in the end. In many ways, the life of your average Faerunian is more like someone who lived in ancient Athens (the city-state, not necessarily the city itself) than 15th century Europe.
GothicDan 12-05-06, 03:03 PM	I don't know, you put the PG with the CS and you have a pretty solid core set up for making a character in 3.5. Isn't that what it's for? I would think that the life of the average citizen woud be better handled in the "area" supplements, since it assuredly varies by region. Not that it's heavily covered there either, but honestly, how much time does a D&D campaign spend dealing with common peasants anyway? Aren't you usually more concerned with trying to eradicate the drow (or bugbear or gnoll or undead or whatever) threat to your peaceful little realm? As a DM, I need to know more about them than I do the schmoes that our PCs are saving. Some of us like having well-detailed characters intrinsically linked to the campaign. I typically write 10+ pages for any character I'm making, more the higher level/older/more experienced he is. Many of their histories are ongoing, filling in bits here and there. It all depends on the style of play one utilizes.
ShadezofDis 12-05-06, 03:33 PM	I would think that the life of the average citizen woud be better handled in the "area" supplements, since it assuredly varies by region. Not that it's heavily covered there either, but honestly, how much time does a D&D campaign spend dealing with common peasants anyway? Aren't you usually more concerned with trying to eradicate the drow (or bugbear or gnoll or undead or whatever) threat to your peaceful little realm? As a DM, I need to know more about them than I do the schmoes that our PCs are saving. I agree that it'd be better handled in area supplements but a nice overview would be welcome as well. But, as a DM, I need to know about the schmoes my PCs are saving as they have a VERY direct effect upon the PCs lives. If the PCs destroy a goblin tribe then I have to decide what the consequences of that are, does that mean that the value of land near where the goblins lived goes way up? Does that mean that the value of land away from where the goblins live goes down? Does this anger the noble who has to lower his tax on the farmers farming his land in order to compete with the noble who's land just became that much more valuable? Does he want to take this anger out on the PCs? Does he dare take any action against the PCs if the "schmoes" are all for the PCs? This is all stuff that I'm currently making up and it takes me a pretty significant amount of time to figure out.
Faraer 12-05-06, 03:36 PM	If one's campaign is just fighting monsters in dungeons or wilderness, and you think ordinary folk are schmoes, why use a campaign setting at all? You could extrapolate medieval life plus monsters and magic, but as Dan says, the Realms ain't built that way. It has its own norms. The so-called Player's Guide is a book of rules updates that can help you create the rules representation of your character. It doesn't give you the information, as a player's guide ought to if the title means anything, to play your character.
Njord 12-05-06, 04:19 PM	I am not sure if anyone here is familiar with the Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan but I find alot of similarities there. Lots of late renassiance early enlightenment tech without gunpowder which changes the landscape quite a bit. (Yes WOT buffs I know that there is gunpowder but it is very limited and has almost no cultural impact yet). You may want to check it out. Also in ancient Alexandria they preformed many different medical operations so it is not unrealistic (funny word for a campaign setting) to think that the local healer could set bones, stich cuts, pull wisdom teeth and prescribe medications (rudimentary and in tea form but effective). And yes I would buy and Life in FR book
Karsus the Mad 12-05-06, 09:28 PM	As GothicDan said. Period. I simply won't bother trying to explain to those who can't understand simply because they inadvertently see things from an introactive PoV. Peasants of Medieval times (which is rather arguable and debatable I'll admit) = modern day lower-working class. Telling yourself otherwise simply because one doesn't want to admit they're a modern-day peasant means nothings. Just like ones station in life 600 years ago (+/- depending on specifics of course), the stations still exist.
boards 12-05-06, 09:56 PM	Technology wise the dwarves and more advanced than most humans (especially in engineering), the Mulhorandi empire also apprently quite technically advanced with Old Empires stating that only the dwarves are doing better. They are also experimenting with magical technology like ever heating stones to power steam driven pumps. Also it states that they created dams to divert rivers, does anyone know if there are artifical dams elsewhere. Shipping has apparently reached early renaiscence levels. Building design is apparently still fairly medievil with cadderly designing a flying buttress which I think started in the 12th century RL. Castles are still being built for defense as reliable cannons haven't been built to make them obsolete. Obviously magical strengthening can do wonders to building designs. Medicine is apparently fairly advanced and I think Ed has written that humans have evolved to be fairly resistant to most diseases. Farming would be more advanced due to the knowledge derived from druids and clerics (ie what is good for plants and soil, perhaps animal husbandry as well). Basically some things have stagnated due to magic, while others have advanced due to the knowledge magic brings.
GothicDan 12-05-06, 10:07 PM	One wonderful bit of lore that Ed gave us was actually about Elven Lighthouses, and how they are effectively 'magical' lighthouses (no actual light), which Elves can sense telepathically - and SOME of which are keyed to SPECIFIC Elves or Elven Families... So technology-wise, that's almost on par with modern radar. One thing that many seem to forget is that just because something "looks" medieval/unevolved to our modern senses, does not mean that it is "low tech." Technology would better be described as the results of a continuous effort to improve the lives of one or more people using the world around us. An Elven village doesn't "look" technologically advanced to us, but it's probably far more efficient and variable than any 16th or 17th century village due to magic (druid in particular; let's not even get into Elven mythal cities like the glory of fallen Myth Drannor! The wonders that arcane and divine magic can attain...)
Faraer 12-05-06, 10:13 PM	Streams can be dammed, but not wide, deep rivers. Soaring cathedrals can be built, but technical detail of large-scale architecture hasn't been published. See "Realmslore: Rural Realms Architecture" (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rl/20060111a) for insight into that.
Weiser_Cain 12-05-06, 10:14 PM	Like a sucky medieval Europe with monsters for the most part, or fantasy medieval Arabia with monsters or.. Look it's hard and its fast and unless you can bend reality or kill a dragon single handed you're going to die, horribly if anything even looks your way.
Karsus the Mad 12-05-06, 10:21 PM	One thing that many seem to forget is that just because something "looks" medieval/unevolved to our modern senses, does not mean that it is "low tech." Technology would better be described as the results of a continuous effort to improve the lives of one or more people using the world around us. Bingo. I'm reminded of Archimedes screw, or The Play (an entire theatrical reinactment using nothing but clockworks, ropes, and weights to power everything). I always find it rather humorous when people think those who came before us are somehow stupid:) For FR, with magic included (especially with elves and their long presence), shhhhhoooooooo. No comparison:D