What's Abyss? [Archive] - Wizards Community

What's Abyss? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GhoX
06-24-07, 02:27 AM It's a bit stupid to ask about Abyss when I'm on my way making a drow city... But I'd rather ask than make mistakes about it. What's Abyss? Is it one of the hells, another plane of existence? Or is it just... abyss on the prime material plane... It's weird becauze I can see areas marked "Abyss" on the Map of Underdark...
Fluffykins0
06-24-07, 02:31 AM Okay, there are two different sorts of Abyss in D&D.

In terms of the ones you see marked on the maps, those are the English meaning of Abyss which is:a deep, immeasurable space, gulf, or cavity; vast chasm.

In Cosmology standpoint for good ole' Dungeons and Dragons, the Abyss is the chaotic evil plane were demons come about.
GhoX
06-24-07, 02:37 AM So devils don't live there... where do devils live then?
Lunar190
06-24-07, 04:25 AM Devils named Baatezu live in Nine Hells of Baator. Baator appears in Toril (FR) cosmology. Appears in Planescape as well.

You really don't know Planescape :) it's just amazing setting.

It look like that:

Baatezu are lawful evil devils (this name is reserved only for Baatezu) and Baator also is lawful evil plane, where evil corrupts the worst aspects of Law. So bureaucracy, pacts with the devils, regular armies of evil.

Tanar'ri are chaotic evil demons (this name is reserved only for Tanar'ri) and Abyss also i chaotic evil plane (and it is homeplane of Tanar'ri). Abyssal lands, layers are infinite in number and chaotic evil to the core. Deathfull deserts, poisoned jungles, fiery lakes and so on. Everything what is chaotic, anarchic, frenzy and mindless with corruption of worst evil.

In planescape, outer planes are homes of deities which characters suit with plane character. In FR, Baator and Abyss are home only for Archdevils and Demon Princes and lower fiends.

If you want know more about Abyss from Planescape - look for 2nd edition Planescape books. If you want know more about Abyss from FR (it isn't changed much), you must look for Manual of the Planes + Player's Guide to Faerun. There is only (i guess) information about faerunian planes. MotP doesn't contains each planes of Toril cosmology (and vice versa), but planes description of PGtF often refer to planes of universal D&D comoslogy descripted in MotP. I hope you understand me ;)

Try on Wikipedia ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyss_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

PS - on map of Underdark, Abyss isn't plane or portals :) this just bottomless deep
Borris
06-24-07, 05:00 AM It's not correct to say that the name devil is reserved for Baatezu or demon is reserved for tanar'ri. There are devils that aren't baatezu, like the chain devil (kyton), hellcat (bezekira), or imp. Likewise, the Bebilith and quasit are tanar'ri that aren't demons. Baatezu and tanar'ri are simply the groups that comprise the majority of devils and demons, respectively.

So, all devils (who are all lawful evil outsiders) live on the plane of Baator, also called Hell, or the Nine Hells of Baator. All demons (chaotic evil outsiders) come from the plane of Abyss, also called the Infinite Layers of the Abyss.

Finally, note that there are LE or CE outsiders that aren't devils or demons. Salamanders, for example, are LE creatures of flame that live on the plane of Fire.
Lunar190
06-24-07, 11:19 AM Ok, my bad. It's interesting case with outsiders and better for you Ghox to read Manual of the Planes, Dungeons Master Guide and Monster Manuals.

In Planescape - they're just fighting on planes of Baator, Gehenna, Carceri, Hades and Abyss.

In FR - they are fighting on Blood Rift. In Forgotten Realms - Campaign Setting is described about contract between Kelvemor and Baatezu and about Tanar'ri etc. if you are interested in their place on the world.
Dr_Tough
06-24-07, 12:48 PM You're better off looking up the old Planescape stuff, it really is good. The 3e version is basically Manual of the Planes. The FR stuff is like Planescape, except the writers took out everything good and interesting.
Lunar190
06-24-07, 01:04 PM Well, in 2nd edition there was Spelljammer cosmology (Prime worlds as Krynn, Toril, Oerth were locked in crystal spheres) fusioned with Planescape cosmology (there were many planes of elements, deities and so forth). Now in 3rd edition, everything were separated. Toril has his own Tree cosmology, deities realms were separated and replaced into new planes which only i few % resemble old godly realms. Baator and Abyss survived changes, but were transformed a little, because there live no deities. Only archfiends remain. Structure of both planes is original as in MotP (MotP is considered by many fans as profanation of Planescape and it really is, but this handbook had been arosen to define universal D&D cosmology (not exactly and particularly Planescape cosmology itself)).
Lord Karsus
06-25-07, 02:21 PM Well, in 2nd edition there was Spelljammer cosmology (Prime worlds as Krynn, Toril, Oerth were locked in crystal spheres) fusioned with Planescape cosmology (there were many planes of elements, deities and so forth).

-The good ol' days...
MarkusTay63
06-26-07, 01:58 PM I think the Abyss of FR should be the same as the one on the Wheel, since the Abyss has infinite layers. FR's Abyss could just simply be a single layer that acts as a conduit to the setting.

In fact, now that I think about it, that could be the very reason WHY the Abyss has an infinite number of layers - it has a single layer for each and every prime world in existance! :eek:

The 9 Hells are a whole 'nother headache altogether. :rolleyes:
Dr_Tough
06-28-07, 12:13 AM I think the Abyss of FR should be the same as the one on the Wheel, since the Abyss has infinite layers. FR's Abyss could just simply be a single layer that acts as a conduit to the setting.

In fact, now that I think about it, that could be the very reason WHY the Abyss has an infinite number of layers - it has a single layer for each and every prime world in existance! :eek:

The 9 Hells are a whole 'nother headache altogether. :rolleyes:

The Abyss has 666 layers, actually.
Borris
06-28-07, 02:17 AM Nope, it really has an infinite number of (also infinite) layers. It's just that nothing has been published about the layers past the 666th (and about most of the ones before that as well).
Red_Wizard
06-28-07, 08:44 AM And the layers aren't actually numbered for the convinience of travelers. You don't hop out of you plane shift by a big sign that says, "welcome to layer 55, hope your soul doesn't mind staying".

The numbers are simply designations given by a group trying to fully explore the Abyss, with the number dictating its order of discovery.

Also, the only difference I have seen in published sources that marked any layer different between realms and core, is the Demonwebs stated size.

PGtF describes it as a finite layer, yet it remains Infinite in the core of FC1 and EttDWP. This can easily be explained away by her simply removing her potion of the demonwebs to it's own plane, so the variance is of little consequence.
Lord Karsus
06-28-07, 06:27 PM The Abyss has 666 layers, actually.

-No, the Abyss has an infinite number of layers, hence it's title "The Infinite Layer's of the Abyss". ;)

-The 666th layer was simply Lolth's domain, the Demonweb Pits. Now, it's just empty.
Dr_Tough
06-28-07, 07:12 PM -No, the Abyss has an infinite number of layers, hence it's title "The Infinite Layer's of the Abyss". ;)

-The 666th layer was simply Lolth's domain, the Demonweb Pits. Now, it's just empty.

Demonweb is the 66th layer, and I believe its in Planescape that it is described as 666 layers.
Lord Karsus
06-28-07, 07:21 PM Demonweb is the 66th layer, and I believe its in Planescape that it is described as 666 layers.

-Whoops, you're right there. Lolth's former domain was the 66th layer.

-The deepest layer of the Abyss that we know of (that I can think of) is Nethuria, the 651st layer, ruled by Vucarik. They keep on going "down", though.
Dr_Tough
06-28-07, 10:25 PM -Whoops, you're right there. Lolth's former domain was the 66th layer.

-The deepest layer of the Abyss that we know of (that I can think of) is Nethuria, the 651st layer, ruled by Vucarik. They keep on going "down", though.

Well, the Fiendish Codex went down to 663 named layers. The wikipedia article listed 666 as being canon although it didn't name the book. I'm pretty sure it was a 2e source though.
Lord Karsus
06-28-07, 10:47 PM Well, the Fiendish Codex went down to 663 named layers.

-Did it name every single layer? If so, I need to get my hands on those couple of pages!
Dr_Tough
06-28-07, 11:34 PM -Did it name every single layer? If so, I need to get my hands on those couple of pages!

No, although it did name quite a few. The lowest on it's list of named layers was simply the 663rd.
Red_Wizard
06-29-07, 10:09 AM -Did it name every single layer? If so, I need to get my hands on those couple of pages!

Buy both the codex's. Best money I have spent in awhile. Don't regret picking up either copy. :)
MarkusTay63
06-29-07, 12:36 PM A DM's gude to the Planes, PSCS, Pg.48 -

"There are multitudinous layers of the Abyss, perhaps even an infinite number. No one has ever catalogued them all, and it's doubtful that any of the plane's natives, let alone any other bean counter, has ever considered the effort worth the time and danger"

The book of Chaos, from the Planes of Chaos boxed set, pg.19, under the heading The Infinite Layers of the Abyss -

"Not even the Guvners have been able to count the layers of the Abyss, although it's not for lack of trying. No one knows if there is an infinite number of layers or whether most of them are just so deadly that not even powers call them home."

And one of my favorite Tanar'ri quotes -

"Ah, the infinite wonders of the Abyss. If there's anything you don't like, you'll find it here."

So, it is called infinite, but no one knows for sure.

My bet is that there is something on the 666th layer that NO ONE gets past, not even gods. :devil:
captaincarot
06-29-07, 12:50 PM [i]
My bet is that there is something on the 666th layer that NO ONE gets past, not even gods. :devil:

yes there is i've seen it.

it's a big red sign saying dead end.

though i didn't see it for long due to being chased by rather a large ammount of very annoyed demons. i don't know what they were annoyed about, all i'd done was borrow the lawnmower and i really was going to give it back
Red_Wizard
06-29-07, 12:53 PM Well the Abyss is a dangerous place by itself, without factoring in the deoms who frequent its many layers.

Chances are good many of the layers are cut off from all known trees and spheres, being accessible solely via other layers of the abyss.So while the 666th might be the last one checked, or even the last they have found to be accessible via the infinite stair, there may very well be hidden pits and doors, breaching the missing planes.

Add to this that many of the planes are they themselves infinite, so to have so many layers, each going on indefinitely, you are bound to have trouble cataloging completely even a dozen or so, let alone all that are claimed to have been discovered.
MarkusTay63
06-29-07, 12:59 PM Plus, in a lot of cases, you don't even realize you just changed layers, or, on the other end of the spectrum, since it's all infinite all of them could just be parts of one infinite layer, but billions of miles apart.

Who's to say?

The Universe is a mystery, as it should be.

Of course, in my version, I know who/what is there. ;)
Red_Wizard
06-29-07, 02:37 PM It's me isn't it? Muwahahahaha.

Ahem :P
Shemeska the Marauder
06-29-07, 03:04 PM Well, the Fiendish Codex went down to 663 named layers. The wikipedia article listed 666 as being canon although it didn't name the book. I'm pretty sure it was a 2e source though.

The wikipedia article was wrong.

In 2e and still in 3e, the Abyss is truly infinite. The only reason that 666 layers gets mentioned now, and no layers are mentioned past that, is so as not to cheese off older players.

2e actually named two layers past 666, and mentioned that the Fraternit of Order had cataloged around 30 odd layers beyond 666. However the Fiendish Codex I retconned those two layers to be <666 to not blatantly trash the 1e notion. It's still described as infinite, and the 666 limit is dismissed several times in several books, but listing layers past 666 is just rubbing their noses in it I suppose.

Another thing to remember is that the layers of the Abyss don't have any relational meaning to their #. Those numbers have nothing to do with their "depth", or closeness to other layers in that numbering. The numbers are just the order in which the Fraternity of Order of Mechanus discovered and named them. Only layer 1, Pazunia, the Plane of Infinite Portals, has any true location imparted by its number. The others likely have no set relation to others, with portals shifting and moving at the whimsy of the Abyss itself. Layer 666 has as much chaotic evil as layer 29 or layer 19,785.

And FWIW, I tried to sneak a post 666 layer into Dragon, but it got cut. Shucks. ;)
MarkusTay63
06-30-07, 02:56 AM So then I could be right. :D

If the layers have no real 'physical' relationship to one another, and are only connected by portals, then they could truly be located ANYWHERE in the universe!

So my theory is that every layer is the Abyss for a seperate prime world, so FR's Abyss could easily be wedged in there somewhere.
captaincarot
06-30-07, 02:57 AM The wikipedia article was wrong.

In 2e and still in 3e, the Abyss is truly infinite. The only reason that 666 layers gets mentioned now, and no layers are mentioned past that, is so as not to cheese off older players.

oik! young whippersnapper! i'll hit you with my walking stick, if i can only manage to wheeze my self over there and clamber out me wheelchair.:P

And FWIW, I tried to sneak a post 666 layer into Dragon, but it got cut. Shucks. ;)

ha ha serves you right!

i still say there is and should be only 666 layers of it, each layer can be infinite in size. but there should be only 666 of em!

you would incidentally still term this the infinite layers of the abyss and be correct because each layer would be infinite.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GhoX 06-24-07, 02:27 AM	It's a bit stupid to ask about Abyss when I'm on my way making a drow city... But I'd rather ask than make mistakes about it. What's Abyss? Is it one of the hells, another plane of existence? Or is it just... abyss on the prime material plane... It's weird becauze I can see areas marked "Abyss" on the Map of Underdark...
Fluffykins0 06-24-07, 02:31 AM	Okay, there are two different sorts of Abyss in D&D. In terms of the ones you see marked on the maps, those are the English meaning of Abyss which is:a deep, immeasurable space, gulf, or cavity; vast chasm. In Cosmology standpoint for good ole' Dungeons and Dragons, the Abyss is the chaotic evil plane were demons come about.
GhoX 06-24-07, 02:37 AM	So devils don't live there... where do devils live then?
Lunar190 06-24-07, 04:25 AM	Devils named Baatezu live in Nine Hells of Baator. Baator appears in Toril (FR) cosmology. Appears in Planescape as well. You really don't know Planescape :) it's just amazing setting. It look like that: Baatezu are lawful evil devils (this name is reserved only for Baatezu) and Baator also is lawful evil plane, where evil corrupts the worst aspects of Law. So bureaucracy, pacts with the devils, regular armies of evil. Tanar'ri are chaotic evil demons (this name is reserved only for Tanar'ri) and Abyss also i chaotic evil plane (and it is homeplane of Tanar'ri). Abyssal lands, layers are infinite in number and chaotic evil to the core. Deathfull deserts, poisoned jungles, fiery lakes and so on. Everything what is chaotic, anarchic, frenzy and mindless with corruption of worst evil. In planescape, outer planes are homes of deities which characters suit with plane character. In FR, Baator and Abyss are home only for Archdevils and Demon Princes and lower fiends. If you want know more about Abyss from Planescape - look for 2nd edition Planescape books. If you want know more about Abyss from FR (it isn't changed much), you must look for Manual of the Planes + Player's Guide to Faerun. There is only (i guess) information about faerunian planes. MotP doesn't contains each planes of Toril cosmology (and vice versa), but planes description of PGtF often refer to planes of universal D&D comoslogy descripted in MotP. I hope you understand me ;) Try on Wikipedia ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyss_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons) PS - on map of Underdark, Abyss isn't plane or portals :) this just bottomless deep
Borris 06-24-07, 05:00 AM	It's not correct to say that the name devil is reserved for Baatezu or demon is reserved for tanar'ri. There are devils that aren't baatezu, like the chain devil (kyton), hellcat (bezekira), or imp. Likewise, the Bebilith and quasit are tanar'ri that aren't demons. Baatezu and tanar'ri are simply the groups that comprise the majority of devils and demons, respectively. So, all devils (who are all lawful evil outsiders) live on the plane of Baator, also called Hell, or the Nine Hells of Baator. All demons (chaotic evil outsiders) come from the plane of Abyss, also called the Infinite Layers of the Abyss. Finally, note that there are LE or CE outsiders that aren't devils or demons. Salamanders, for example, are LE creatures of flame that live on the plane of Fire.
Lunar190 06-24-07, 11:19 AM	Ok, my bad. It's interesting case with outsiders and better for you Ghox to read Manual of the Planes, Dungeons Master Guide and Monster Manuals. In Planescape - they're just fighting on planes of Baator, Gehenna, Carceri, Hades and Abyss. In FR - they are fighting on Blood Rift. In Forgotten Realms - Campaign Setting is described about contract between Kelvemor and Baatezu and about Tanar'ri etc. if you are interested in their place on the world.
Dr_Tough 06-24-07, 12:48 PM	You're better off looking up the old Planescape stuff, it really is good. The 3e version is basically Manual of the Planes. The FR stuff is like Planescape, except the writers took out everything good and interesting.
Lunar190 06-24-07, 01:04 PM	Well, in 2nd edition there was Spelljammer cosmology (Prime worlds as Krynn, Toril, Oerth were locked in crystal spheres) fusioned with Planescape cosmology (there were many planes of elements, deities and so forth). Now in 3rd edition, everything were separated. Toril has his own Tree cosmology, deities realms were separated and replaced into new planes which only i few % resemble old godly realms. Baator and Abyss survived changes, but were transformed a little, because there live no deities. Only archfiends remain. Structure of both planes is original as in MotP (MotP is considered by many fans as profanation of Planescape and it really is, but this handbook had been arosen to define universal D&D cosmology (not exactly and particularly Planescape cosmology itself)).
Lord Karsus 06-25-07, 02:21 PM	Well, in 2nd edition there was Spelljammer cosmology (Prime worlds as Krynn, Toril, Oerth were locked in crystal spheres) fusioned with Planescape cosmology (there were many planes of elements, deities and so forth). -The good ol' days...
MarkusTay63 06-26-07, 01:58 PM	I think the Abyss of FR should be the same as the one on the Wheel, since the Abyss has infinite layers. FR's Abyss could just simply be a single layer that acts as a conduit to the setting. In fact, now that I think about it, that could be the very reason WHY the Abyss has an infinite number of layers - it has a single layer for each and every prime world in existance! :eek: The 9 Hells are a whole 'nother headache altogether. :rolleyes:
Dr_Tough 06-28-07, 12:13 AM	I think the Abyss of FR should be the same as the one on the Wheel, since the Abyss has infinite layers. FR's Abyss could just simply be a single layer that acts as a conduit to the setting. In fact, now that I think about it, that could be the very reason WHY the Abyss has an infinite number of layers - it has a single layer for each and every prime world in existance! :eek: The 9 Hells are a whole 'nother headache altogether. :rolleyes: The Abyss has 666 layers, actually.
Borris 06-28-07, 02:17 AM	Nope, it really has an infinite number of (also infinite) layers. It's just that nothing has been published about the layers past the 666th (and about most of the ones before that as well).
Red_Wizard 06-28-07, 08:44 AM	And the layers aren't actually numbered for the convinience of travelers. You don't hop out of you plane shift by a big sign that says, "welcome to layer 55, hope your soul doesn't mind staying". The numbers are simply designations given by a group trying to fully explore the Abyss, with the number dictating its order of discovery. Also, the only difference I have seen in published sources that marked any layer different between realms and core, is the Demonwebs stated size. PGtF describes it as a finite layer, yet it remains Infinite in the core of FC1 and EttDWP. This can easily be explained away by her simply removing her potion of the demonwebs to it's own plane, so the variance is of little consequence.
Lord Karsus 06-28-07, 06:27 PM	The Abyss has 666 layers, actually. -No, the Abyss has an infinite number of layers, hence it's title "The Infinite Layer's of the Abyss". ;) -The 666th layer was simply Lolth's domain, the Demonweb Pits. Now, it's just empty.
Dr_Tough 06-28-07, 07:12 PM	-No, the Abyss has an infinite number of layers, hence it's title "The Infinite Layer's of the Abyss". ;) -The 666th layer was simply Lolth's domain, the Demonweb Pits. Now, it's just empty. Demonweb is the 66th layer, and I believe its in Planescape that it is described as 666 layers.
Lord Karsus 06-28-07, 07:21 PM	Demonweb is the 66th layer, and I believe its in Planescape that it is described as 666 layers. -Whoops, you're right there. Lolth's former domain was the 66th layer. -The deepest layer of the Abyss that we know of (that I can think of) is Nethuria, the 651st layer, ruled by Vucarik. They keep on going "down", though.
Dr_Tough 06-28-07, 10:25 PM	-Whoops, you're right there. Lolth's former domain was the 66th layer. -The deepest layer of the Abyss that we know of (that I can think of) is Nethuria, the 651st layer, ruled by Vucarik. They keep on going "down", though. Well, the Fiendish Codex went down to 663 named layers. The wikipedia article listed 666 as being canon although it didn't name the book. I'm pretty sure it was a 2e source though.
Lord Karsus 06-28-07, 10:47 PM	Well, the Fiendish Codex went down to 663 named layers. -Did it name every single layer? If so, I need to get my hands on those couple of pages!
Dr_Tough 06-28-07, 11:34 PM	-Did it name every single layer? If so, I need to get my hands on those couple of pages! No, although it did name quite a few. The lowest on it's list of named layers was simply the 663rd.
Red_Wizard 06-29-07, 10:09 AM	-Did it name every single layer? If so, I need to get my hands on those couple of pages! Buy both the codex's. Best money I have spent in awhile. Don't regret picking up either copy. :)
MarkusTay63 06-29-07, 12:36 PM	A DM's gude to the Planes, PSCS, Pg.48 - "There are multitudinous layers of the Abyss, perhaps even an infinite number. No one has ever catalogued them all, and it's doubtful that any of the plane's natives, let alone any other bean counter, has ever considered the effort worth the time and danger" The book of Chaos, from the Planes of Chaos boxed set, pg.19, under the heading The Infinite Layers of the Abyss - "Not even the Guvners have been able to count the layers of the Abyss, although it's not for lack of trying. No one knows if there is an infinite number of layers or whether most of them are just so deadly that not even powers call them home." And one of my favorite Tanar'ri quotes - "Ah, the infinite wonders of the Abyss. If there's anything you don't like, you'll find it here." So, it is called infinite, but no one knows for sure. My bet is that there is something on the 666th layer that NO ONE gets past, not even gods. :devil:
captaincarot 06-29-07, 12:50 PM	[i] My bet is that there is something on the 666th layer that NO ONE gets past, not even gods. :devil: yes there is i've seen it. it's a big red sign saying dead end. though i didn't see it for long due to being chased by rather a large ammount of very annoyed demons. i don't know what they were annoyed about, all i'd done was borrow the lawnmower and i really was going to give it back
Red_Wizard 06-29-07, 12:53 PM	Well the Abyss is a dangerous place by itself, without factoring in the deoms who frequent its many layers. Chances are good many of the layers are cut off from all known trees and spheres, being accessible solely via other layers of the abyss.So while the 666th might be the last one checked, or even the last they have found to be accessible via the infinite stair, there may very well be hidden pits and doors, breaching the missing planes. Add to this that many of the planes are they themselves infinite, so to have so many layers, each going on indefinitely, you are bound to have trouble cataloging completely even a dozen or so, let alone all that are claimed to have been discovered.
MarkusTay63 06-29-07, 12:59 PM	Plus, in a lot of cases, you don't even realize you just changed layers, or, on the other end of the spectrum, since it's all infinite all of them could just be parts of one infinite layer, but billions of miles apart. Who's to say? The Universe is a mystery, as it should be. Of course, in my version, I know who/what is there. ;)
Red_Wizard 06-29-07, 02:37 PM	It's me isn't it? Muwahahahaha. Ahem :P
Shemeska the Marauder 06-29-07, 03:04 PM	Well, the Fiendish Codex went down to 663 named layers. The wikipedia article listed 666 as being canon although it didn't name the book. I'm pretty sure it was a 2e source though. The wikipedia article was wrong. In 2e and still in 3e, the Abyss is truly infinite. The only reason that 666 layers gets mentioned now, and no layers are mentioned past that, is so as not to cheese off older players. 2e actually named two layers past 666, and mentioned that the Fraternit of Order had cataloged around 30 odd layers beyond 666. However the Fiendish Codex I retconned those two layers to be <666 to not blatantly trash the 1e notion. It's still described as infinite, and the 666 limit is dismissed several times in several books, but listing layers past 666 is just rubbing their noses in it I suppose. Another thing to remember is that the layers of the Abyss don't have any relational meaning to their #. Those numbers have nothing to do with their "depth", or closeness to other layers in that numbering. The numbers are just the order in which the Fraternity of Order of Mechanus discovered and named them. Only layer 1, Pazunia, the Plane of Infinite Portals, has any true location imparted by its number. The others likely have no set relation to others, with portals shifting and moving at the whimsy of the Abyss itself. Layer 666 has as much chaotic evil as layer 29 or layer 19,785. And FWIW, I tried to sneak a post 666 layer into Dragon, but it got cut. Shucks. ;)
MarkusTay63 06-30-07, 02:56 AM	So then I could be right. :D If the layers have no real 'physical' relationship to one another, and are only connected by portals, then they could truly be located ANYWHERE in the universe! So my theory is that every layer is the Abyss for a seperate prime world, so FR's Abyss could easily be wedged in there somewhere.
captaincarot 06-30-07, 02:57 AM	The wikipedia article was wrong. In 2e and still in 3e, the Abyss is truly infinite. The only reason that 666 layers gets mentioned now, and no layers are mentioned past that, is so as not to cheese off older players. oik! young whippersnapper! i'll hit you with my walking stick, if i can only manage to wheeze my self over there and clamber out me wheelchair.:P And FWIW, I tried to sneak a post 666 layer into Dragon, but it got cut. Shucks. ;) ha ha serves you right! i still say there is and should be only 666 layers of it, each layer can be infinite in size. but there should be only 666 of em! you would incidentally still term this the infinite layers of the abyss and be correct because each layer would be infinite.