Post/Author/DateTime	Post
shiyongseng 11-16-05, 02:21 AM	I've been playing a game of mixed FR and other D&D source books, no specific place really. Got a player that is a little pushy when he's not getting what he wants in the story (example a bad guy gets away a few times instead of getting killed off) or keeps bringing things up he's not going to get- but of course wants. Just curious what other DM's do.
The ShapeLess One 11-16-05, 02:58 AM	Well never give in to his demands. Also what he wants would it ruin the game? Would it make him uber powerful? Or is it just a case of a player that wants the game to revolve around him?
GothicDan 11-16-05, 03:53 AM	I'd most likely tell him to deal with it or get out of my game. :)
Gallameed 11-16-05, 07:43 AM	It sounds like you have a very rude player if he mouths off like that! Why not give him everything he wants but in a nasty "DaMaging" kind of way? Have fun! :D Let him be the guy who catches and finally kills the badguy, (claiming the item or whatever he wanted) but while the party seach the badguys body they pull off its shirt to reveal an intricate network of sigils and power-glyphs! They notice how the wound which dealt the "killing blow" has "completed the circuit". You pass the party wizard (or "know it all" character) a note, telling him how he regonises this arcane pattern as something terrible that means their troubles have only just begun! The symbols on the body are a perverted form of a dedication to the deity of vengence and retribution: Hoar, warped into something much worse by the followers of Cyric! (or whoever) The badguy (now dead) will raise as an undead creature at the next fullmoon (or whenever) and all he has to do is kill his killer (now known as his nemesis) in order to come back, luckily the newly raised undead will have trouble finding its nemesis, unless the nemesis has touched a certain item (ie: the one the player wanted and most likely has already got in his greedy little mitts.) Now adjust this to suit your campaign, torture your rude player and make sense for your storyline. :D
Kid SixXx 11-16-05, 08:13 AM	I've been playing a game of mixed FR and other D&D source books, no specific place really. Got a player that is a little pushy when he's not getting what he wants in the story (example a bad guy gets away a few times instead of getting killed off) or keeps bringing things up he's not going to get- but of course wants. Just curious what other DM's do. Encounter with Advanced Dryad Warlock bound to an evil Treant with many, many Druid levels. PC of whiny player dies a tortured death.... Player re-rolls.
Shy_Guy 11-16-05, 08:53 AM	I've been playing a game of mixed FR and other D&D source books, no specific place really. Got a player that is a little pushy when he's not getting what he wants in the story (example a bad guy gets away a few times instead of getting killed off) or keeps bringing things up he's not going to get- but of course wants. Just curious what other DM's do. I enjoy smacking them over the head with my +2 flaming flail while screaming "FOR CORMYR!!!" No really. I have a makeshift flail (albeit, a foil/ducktape one that doesnt flame) that i smack them with when they get out of order. Also, one of the only house rules that i actually have is - nobody can question the logic or decisions of the DM (me) during a session. If they step out of character (even momentarily) to refute any aspect of MY session which I worked so hard to put together, they are subject to XP penalties. Or even worse, no cookies or mountain dew. Mabey you dont want to smack them with foil flail replicas but you must be firm with them when you have to.
Alac Luin 11-16-05, 11:42 AM	First we have to find out if it is the player or the charicter. 1- If it's the player mouthing off through his charicter thats not a good thing. 2- If its the player playing, say a half orc with anger management issues, its all good, the player is role playing. Talk to the player. If it's number 2, tell the player to take it down a notch as it's grateing your nerves It is likely the first senerio so, tell the player to take it down a notch as it's grateing your nerves
Purple Dragon Knight 11-16-05, 12:22 PM	I actually solved this problem once by acting in-character through a very rude, angry noble employer of theirs, saying to the player "Well lad, that's the first good thing that's come out of your mouth so far!" and stuff like that... it lets the player know immediately that at least the DM is taking everything he says as important, and that he has a real impact on the game (whether good or bad, as most of the pushy players are usually that way because they need attention... I show them exactly that: attention to every detail when it comes to their character's decisions!)
Yokinobu 11-16-05, 12:46 PM	I enjoy smacking them over the head with my +2 flaming flail while screaming "FOR CORMYR!!!" No really. I have a makeshift flail (albeit, a foil/ducktape one that doesnt flame) that i smack them with when they get out of order. I actually have a magic +1 flaming spiked club(baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire) that DOES flame. However, in order to invoke it's magic flaming properties, one must complete a sacred ritual that involves dousing the weapon in kerosine and putting a match to it. Then the effect is only temporary, and the weapon usually stops being very effective afterword. I guess that was why it was so cheap for a magic item. Or even worse, no cookies or mountain dew. What a cruel DM you are. It would be unthinkable for my DM to commit such brutal acts of vile tyranny.
Shy_Guy 11-16-05, 01:13 PM	I actually have a magic +1 flaming spiked club(baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire) that DOES flame. However, in order to invoke it's magic flaming properties, one must complete a sacred ritual that involves dousing the weapon in kerosine and putting a match to it. Then the effect is only temporary, and the weapon usually stops being very effective afterword. I guess that was why it was so cheap for a magic item. What a cruel DM you are. It would be unthinkable for my DM to commit such brutal acts of vile tyranny. :rofl: :rofl:
'orrible 'obbit 11-16-05, 01:44 PM	every time he shoots hi sbig mouth off a pit fiend appears it will do wonders for his manners... :)
BrianCritchley 11-16-05, 01:57 PM	your first step should be to step back and examine WHY he's acting a tad angry all the time,it might be nothing, but it might be he feels he isn't really contirbuting, also he might feel the game is being rail roaded. hence why as I said you should step back and examine things. also to a degree with the abd guy getting away, it can be kinda unsastifing to constantly have the bad guy escape. iunstead of having em confront one particular villian and have him get away, give said villian subordinates that bthey CAN kill.
Mr.Moonrat 11-16-05, 04:36 PM	Sure you can "punish" the player for making such a bad performance, as some here give examples of. But I think that the best first step is to have an open dialoge. To be a little serious, that is how I handle most situations in my life - I confront the one I am disappointed with. It often gives the best result in the end. In this case I would ask him a couple of questions when you not are into a playing session. And in this ongoing discussion I would, all in all, say things like: "Do you like my game? I am actually a little disappointed with you. And that is not the point with roleplaying games. We should have fun. Do you have fun? I don't when you act like this. And I would prefer not to give you xp-penalties. Better come to sort of an understanding. I am DM, and I am ready to take that responsibility and give you sort of an ingame punishment if I must. Like xp-penalty. It is up to you. If you have criticism, please say it. This is your chance to give me your point of view" Well that was pretty much. You don't have to say it all of course, and by no means literally, but I just want you to get my point. If he not is mature enough to take the "hint" from what I say here above, then I would give him xp-penalties. If he can't handle it and quit, well then he never is something you should miss when you play on without him. Sometimes we people simply are too different to get along well. And I think that is a quite natural thing.
Thysl 11-16-05, 07:10 PM	your first step should be to step back and examine WHY he's acting a tad angry all the time,it might be nothing, but it might be he feels he isn't really contirbuting, also he might feel the game is being rail roaded. hence why as I said you should step back and examine things. also to a degree with the abd guy getting away, it can be kinda unsastifing to constantly have the bad guy escape. iunstead of having em confront one particular villian and have him get away, give said villian subordinates that bthey CAN kill. Best advice yet! I've noticed when I am unhappy with a game its for reasons like this; if my PC isn't contributing, if the story has already been written by the GM, if the party is fighting the same tired group of villians, not having truly foiled any of there dasterdly plots... these things anger me, of course I act out in... different ways.... Now I'm not saying that this is your fault, Shiyong, I'm saying that asking what the problem is instead of guessing, or - God forbid - listening to US, is your best bet. What's getting to this player may be so small and seemingly insignificant that you don't even notice it. It may be something that you don't even know you do. Of course it may be that - yes - your player is selfish and is not getting enough face time... it happens. DON'T threaten! This is bad advice and should be forgotten. If the decision must be made that you and your player can't reconcile, just ask him/her to leave. Threatening to kick them - especially around your other players - is a sure way to lose a group, if not some friends. Good luck man.
BrianCritchley 11-16-05, 08:04 PM	Best advice yet thank you, gained from being on both sides of the problem. the short version of my advice is to talk to the player and see what he REALLY wants. a bit of communication goes a long ways. and whatever you do.. DON'T talk to him in front of the group and make a big show of it threatening DMal powers etc. talk to him off to the side in private, (this is absolutly critical as it makes it seem like your genuinly intrested and that he can speak his mind without the group reacting to this)
Son_of_Godess 11-16-05, 08:40 PM	You could do as my DM does for cheaters and people who mouth off. Put the charachter in a very bad situation such as a confrontation with a group of Dracoliches. One word. OUCH. Personally i dont recomend this unless you truely are getting red faced frustrated with him.
shiyongseng 11-18-05, 12:05 AM	Thanks for all of the advice, the problem is this: I am living in the middle of BeiJing, China now (almost 2 years) and really have no plans to come back to the states if all things go well. (Do you know there's NO D&D here! Tragic! WoTC need to get some books translated and sent over here! Talk about a large market to be tapped into. China has the largest population in the world!) There are three of us and one is new- as in has only played 2-3 times. If I anger the one that has played for years he'll more than likely quit along with the new guy since they've been friends for years. Most of the stuff I've pulled from FR books, but also from other sources to keep it more interesting. He always wishes to add things he's played from his previous DM, for example something called "Giants's Blood" (a feat)- makes the player one category larger. He says he saw it in a book, I've not seen it anywhere, and his old FR DM used it. Another example was he wanted to gather strength that he didn't have by doing a Will save to open a door. It would add a few points of str. to him a few seconds if rolling a high enough save. I of course on these accounts said, "Hell no.". For the longest time he wanted to play a celestrial from Savage Species while the other characters were human, I told him it would severly unbalance the game. Later he wanted to play a Goliath Half-Dragon he said it would come with wings since Goliaths get a few bonuses from a larger category. I told him it's still a medium creature, thus no wings. Another thing that came up was something called Just-All. He believes it's from an FR book, if anyone knows what book please tell me. A Just-All is something like this: start as a fighter and the next level you choose another class (2 only) - say a thief, and get the best of each one. Get the fighters attack, skills, hp, feat slots, Fort. saves, then you get the Thieves skill points, abilities, skills, Ref. save. All in all, it again makes things unballanced. The thing he mostly been wanting is a powerful natural Weretiger NPC of mine striving for something akin to Were-Demigod status, to simply bite him to get mondo-strong. He always complains, saying it out of character " I just want him to bite me!". It's getting rather old... About him rather liking attention, when he was in the US he was trying to be an actor and likes to be a center of attention. On one hand, if he does decide to quit it wouldn't be too bad- just more time for me to study Chinese, on the other I do rather enjoy a game of FR from time to time- but headaches from unruly players is unwanted. P.S.- Oh, no Mt. Dew here and the cookies are just so-so, nothing soft- just the crumbly stuff. How I miss soft cookies...
BrianCritchley 11-18-05, 01:38 AM	if he really wants a were critter to bite him, do it, he'd have absolutly NO control over when he changed. as for the Giant's blood feat, he's reffering to Jomterbrood, in races of faerun. it's a regional feat so it's too late to take it, however the best way to handle that is to say "if you can provide me the source. I'll consider it" in other words tell him "if you want it gimme the damn book with it"
shiyongseng 11-18-05, 01:42 AM	When I first started playing FR, my old DM made us instantly teleport to a plane he called "The Happy Hunting Grounds" if we played out of character. In this plane you can hunt all you like, and there are many beasts/monsters from other places, but they also like to hunt you too. He usually used it to kill a person off that was playing poorly, because he made the plane unable to get out of in any way. So you eventually died. I'm thinking of adding this to my game.
GothicDan 11-18-05, 01:48 AM	This plane is the Beastlands. It's the Chaotic Neutral Good (Yup) Outer Plane on the Great Wheel where animal life rules supreme. Animals here are often smarter, stronger, faster, and more dangerous than elsewhere; some of them even have class levels. And lastly, it is "ruled" by the various Animal Lords - powerful beings who each represent the summation of the thoughts, emotions, beliefs, etc. of a specific type of animal. There's the Cat Lord, the Wolf Lord, the Hawk Lord, etc. Don't misconstrue these figures for the similarly-named prestige class! Er.. Yeah. That's all, for now. *coughs, wanders back to Planescape* PS: THERE'S DINOSAURS, TOO!
theAlastorian 11-18-05, 09:19 AM	Another thing that came up was something called Just-All. He believes it's from an FR book, if anyone knows what book please tell me. A Just-All is something like this: start as a fighter and the next level you choose another class (2 only) - say a thief, and get the best of each one. Get the fighters attack, skills, hp, feat slots, Fort. saves, then you get the Thieves skill points, abilities, skills, Ref. save. All in all, it again makes things unballanced. P.S.- Oh, no Mt. Dew here and the cookies are just so-so, nothing soft- just the crumbly stuff. How I miss soft cookies... It's called a Gestalt. Basically it means you get to level up in two classes at once, taking the best bits of each class. It's only a viable play variant if everyone (including the enemies) are Gestalts as well. It completely unbalances a game and most DMs won't use it. However, it is in fact an actual published variant though I currently forget where. I'm sure someone else on here could tell you. As to the cookie bit. I'm sorry. Soft cookies and Mt Dew are what makes the gaming world go round.
War Angel 11-18-05, 11:05 AM	First we have to find out if it is the player or the charicter. 1- If it's the player mouthing off through his charicter thats not a good thing. 2- If its the player playing, say a half orc with anger management issues, its all good, the player is role playing. Talk to the player. If it's number 2, tell the player to take it down a notch as it's grateing your nerves It is likely the first senerio so, tell the player to take it down a notch as it's grateing your nerves Nice post! LOL... Foil flail! I gota make me one of those!
GothicDan 11-18-05, 02:08 PM	The Gestalt option is presented in Unearthed Arcana. It's also used if the party is smaller than normal.
jake_lex 11-18-05, 03:08 PM	The Gestalt option is presented in Unearthed Arcana. It's also used if the party is smaller than normal. It's a great way to make a small party viable, if you're playing in a small group, without making people juggle multiple characters. Allow someone to gestalt in Cleric skills so you get the healing and turning, and you're saving a lot of hassle.
Herr Doktor 11-18-05, 10:27 PM	Is he being pushy, or offering useful feedback (it's nice to know what a player likes or dislikes and items/spells/et cetera they want to aquire)? Though certainly you have the final say in what happens and what you allow in your game, you should consider, rather than taking his behavior as hostility, his voicing such things as useful feedback, and actually ask all of your players for feedback of that sort after each session (what did you enjoy, what didn't you enjoy, what are your plans for the next sessions, et cetera).
Purple Dragon Knight 11-19-05, 02:38 AM	From what you wrote, this player is an idiot, and I would not tolerate him at my table. I have recently asked a player to leave my table for far less (i.e. constant attempts at ruleslawyering every DM calls I made... I told him to buy a cozy chair and spend his nights learning the rules to his heart's content). In my experience there are 3 types of players that will sabotage your game and try to create a mutiny on you: 1- the ruleslawyer: this one is just vile, and will not have an afterthought if your campaign goes belly up, especially if he worms his way into another campaign... any campaign... 2- the actor: although his roleplaying skills are amazing and bring much to the table, this one disregards all rules and simply does not care a whit for game balance... in essence, he his your enemy as you try to hold it all together while he constantly tries to work outside the game's boundaries. 3- the hack and slasher: this guy hates the ruleslawyer and the actor, and they hate him back, creating much drama. This guy wants to have the high score and kill the most orcs in a given four hour period. This guy wants to level, buy stuff, and kill more. This guy cannot suffer to do one inch of roleplay: D&D is video game code written on paper. He's trying to get the high score, kill the boss and get back to his other videogames.
Ocrus of Wessek 11-19-05, 03:00 PM	kudos to Purple dragon lord for spelling out the qualities of those players who truly **** off DMs everywhere. as to the natural weretiger vying for demi-godhood, he sounds hellishly powerful, and it would seem to me that something that powerful, nearly a demi god would be subject to your own rules. i would just have the character get bitten and get it over with, just give him some negative results as well, since he was bitten by so powerful a lycanthropic being, why not have visible changes to his appearance occur even when he is not transformed, causing him problems when dealing with other people. maybe you could also declare that if dropped below a certain number of hit points he automatically and involuntarily transforms into his hybrid form, giving him bonuses similar to a barbarians rage, but dictating that he has little control over his actions, requiring him to make a dc10+number of HD will save or go berserk with no control over his actions =) those both seem like reasonable things that could be done, at the DMs discretion.
Purple Dragon Knight 11-20-05, 02:18 AM	i would just have the character get bitten and get it over with, just give him some negative results as well, since he was bitten by so powerful a lycanthropic being, why not have visible changes to his appearance occur even when he is not transformed, causing him problems when dealing with other people.Better: get him all excited about it by sending a weretiger at him. Have the weretiger bite him... a lot... perhaps even have the player go negative. Keep him excited. Describe how the full moon is approaching, how his blood his racing at the approaching darkness of night... When full moon comes: nothing. No changes. Have him whine and dig a little... when you get tired of the tiring, turn to him and gloatingly reveal that the weretiger had the Silver Fang feat from Champions of Valor. :)
Ocrus of Wessek 11-20-05, 08:33 PM	Better: get him all excited about it by sending a weretiger at him. Have the weretiger bite him... a lot... perhaps even have the player go negative. Keep him excited. Describe how the full moon is approaching, how his blood his racing at the approaching darkness of night... When full moon comes: nothing. No changes. Have him whine and dig a little... when you get tired of the tiring, turn to him and gloatingly reveal that the weretiger had the Silver Fang feat from Champions of Valor. :) hahah, thats great, *high five* :D
OzyBurrfoot 12-02-05, 03:48 PM	I'd tell the player that any time he wants my game to run according to his whims, he is welcome to take over the DM chair. I'm guessing he wont have much of a response for that.
Auburn 12-03-05, 01:44 PM	I can see the character wanting to get bit by the weretiger especially if combat ability is something the character's always wanted. At the same time I can see the weretiger demigod in training wanting to be unique. Have the NPC dealing with it like that in game maybe?