Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Straploknight 10-12-07, 12:51 AM	Okay, just to satisfy my curiosity, given the advent of 4th Ed and its system, how would you guys have handled the transition to the 4th Ed realms? Or to broaden things a bit, say your the creative lead for FR and the powers that be have decided its time to refresh the setting and given you full reign to do whatever you pleased?
msatran 10-12-07, 02:51 AM	I'd flip the Sundering Switch. Once I flipped the Sundering Switch, I don't need a Time of Troubles, or a spellplague. Then I just reset the calendar to 1372, and let the writers do what they want. I would make people write novels in the past with a maximum of the year 1345, except Ed Greenwood and Elaine, who I would allow to be exempt. No surprise Geographic features. No spellplague. And no !@#$%!ing Orc Kingdom! Richard Baker Must Be Stopped! Best of all...NO CYRIC! I would rather have TIAX than Cyric. Let TIAX rule! :)
bykov1 10-12-07, 07:53 AM	I wouldn;t try to force a commonality between the current settings. My perception is that they are trying to equalize the orcs between Eberron & FR, to the detriment of FR. Don't get me wrong, I like the flavor of Eberron with the Kobolds, Orcs, & Goblins being more on par with the other humanoids. That is part of the appeal. If they are trying to push a commonality, why the heck would I bother with Eberron? So, if I were lead designer, I would further the current plots that haven;t even come close to being resolved. I would really push the Thay aspect, as you know they have something up their sleeve. But with the City of Shade, Thay, the end of the Retreat, & the death of Azoun, there is plenty of plots to forward what could be used to forward the new spellcasting. Bykov.
Charles Phipps 10-12-07, 08:12 AM	Okay, if I was made Forgotten Realm Developer, here's what I'd do. + Stick with the usual time forward of 1 Game Year = 1 Campaign Year. It's been twenty years since the Grey Box and thus it's been 20 years in game. + Mystra would have destroyed the Shadow Weave at Great Personal Cost: The New Mystra absorbs the Shadow Weave and becomes TN. She starts promoting evil Spell Casters so long as they defeat the Church of Shar and places the safety of all the realms over petty politics. + Levels in FR would take a royal hit amongst the good guys: Mystra to beat Shar, asks all of her champions to offer up sacrifices of power to give her. All of the Chosen are reduced to 20th level or below with most averaging about 16-18. Many thousands of other wizards contribute "levels" to the fight. + Epic Magic is no longer forbidden in FR: Ironically, it's an in game option but right now it needs to be rediscovered by most except Larloch. + Cyric's Church would be totally revised: I'd reveal Cyric was some kind of super-evil mastermind and that the Chaos God we've been watching this entire time was just an avatar of his. + The Red Wizards Civil War: Ssass Tam is temporarilly destroyed, no one knows where his psylantery is and it's apparently not over any corpse, by Manshoon who absorbs all the Thayan enclaves into the Black Network. Thay descends into Civil War and other races are invited to become mercenaries to help accelerate the conflict. + New Netheril is founded: Shade just keeps growing and growing even if they've suffered a Royal hit too since all of their powers suffered a royal hit when Mystra won. Nevertheless, there's a new Mage Empire above. + A Drow Surface Empire appears: The Silence of Lolth results in a mass migration of Drow that take over Myth Drannor and ally with the Fey'ri. Cormanthor is now two feuding Empires of evils. It allies with Zhentil Keep. + Cadderly is revealed to be an avatar of Deneir and ascends to replace him in the Pantheon, causing his religion to grow leaps and bounds (nope---no Christianity paralells there). Also removing one LG Cleric. + Velsharoon puts on the Crown of Horns. He's instantly slain and replaced by Myrkul. Myrkul wrests some of Moander's portfolio from Lolth and Finder. The new god of Rot, Decay, Undeath, and Necromancy is a Lesser God allied with Bane. + Switch the entire setting back to the Great Wheel. Bane's in the Nine Hells and Cyric rules over the Abyss. + Talos and his Pantheon slay the head of the Goblin, Troll, and other monstrous pantheons. This leads to much confusion amongst them as many start interacting reasonably peacefully amongst other races. + Gruumsh creates Scro in Forgotten Realms. More intelligent, civilized, and dangerous to arm the Orc people with better weaponry and skills. The Chaotic Evil God suppresses his disdain for his largely LE folk.
Alediran 10-12-07, 08:40 AM	I would keep what the realms are, except: - Cyric is destroyed by AO for his attempt on Mystra's life and the balance he created, he gives Cyric's portfolios to different deities. - Mystra is able to merge both weaves, thanks to the help of the other gods of magic, this changes the fundamental working of the Weave but it doesn't changes her alignment (YES, I PREFER A GOOD GODDESS OF MAGIC) - Myth Drannor grows to a powerful force of good and knowledge to help the Dalelands in their fight against Zhentil Keep and Sembia's seedier element. It becomes what Eltargrim intended it to be. - The Orc kingdom gets stomped to the ground, orcs never again attempt to do something like that for the rest of time, thus becoming 1st lvl PC's favorite targets to earn experience again, like they always should have been.
Storm_Silverhand 10-12-07, 08:43 AM	Heya, Okay, just to satisfy my curiosity, given the advent of 4th Ed and its system, how would you guys have handled the transition to the 4th Ed realms? Or to broaden things a bit, say your the creative lead for FR and the powers that be have decided its time to refresh the setting and given you full reign to do whatever you pleased? Not knowing everything about 4th Edition, I think it's a bit too early to say. However, from what I've seen thus far, this is how it would pan out if I were in charge... Mystra anticipates Cyric's strike (whether by seeing it herself, or being warned by one of her allies, such as Savras), and enlists Eilistraee's assistance by way of relieving the Drow goddess of Vhaeraun's influence in exchange for a portion of her own power. Mystra uses the vestiges of Vhaeraun's divinity to fool Cyric - which is how she avoids death and retains nearly all of her power. Cyric is hurt but not destroyed, but sent off with his tail between his legs. Shar, in a fit of pique (because her plot, and pawn Cyric, failed), destroys the Shadow Weave which causes a magical shock wave to destabilize the Weave. It takes Mystra 100 years to completely stop the after shocks, and results in a reorganized Weave (to comply with 4th Edition specifications). This is essentially the spellplague, which definitely has an impact, but many high level wizards and sorcerers have enough warning to get off the prime before it happens/before it gets too bad. The Seven Sisters, and most of the rest of the Chosen of Mystra all survive by plane hopping. (Oh, and another idea I played around with was the idea that the Sharrans who tried to put Sylune to rest in the Shadowdale/Weave super module find their magic backfires, and rather than completely destroying Sylune, it bring her back to full life... Just 'cause I thought her original death wasn't fair! ;)) Tymora never agrees to a political marriage because Sune never suggests it. Siamorphe still moves to Brightwater, but since she's not a major deity in any respect, it's no great loss to the House of the Triad. Helm is not killed, Tyr is not stupid, and Ilmater has no reason to move to Brightwater. As for the rest, it all depends on what else changes between 3.5e and 4th Ed. (Oh, and I don't know enough about the Orc Kingdom to comment on it.)
Charles Phipps 10-12-07, 09:11 AM	Yeah, I don't like any future plots that continue the "Cyric is a dumbass" theory.
Alediran 10-12-07, 09:13 AM	Yeah, I don't like any future plots that continue the "Cyric is a dumbass" theory. It's not a theory, it's a law now.
Charles Phipps 10-12-07, 09:26 AM	Somehow, dumbasses who devastate the whole of reality is a new definition to me.
BadCatMan 10-12-07, 10:51 AM	What? And have "BadCatMan Must Be Stopped!" bumper-stickers and t-shirts everywhere? Actually, that would be quite cool. :D Mainly I'll just reinterpret existing events to something more positive, assuming certain things are set in stone. *** Backed by Shar, Cyric attacked Mystra, and was subsequently blasted into a million pieces (or the lil' bastard survived and crawled off somewhere - you decide!), but not before getting off a lucky strike. Unfortunately the blade was coated with a disease/poison made by Shar (and Talona, why not?), and Mystra is infected with the Shadow Weave. Mystra lies feverish and barely conscious for some time, and in her absense, other gods of magic manage the damaged Weave and spellcasting in their respective areas of influence (Corellon, Laduguer, Azuth, Savras, Velsharoon, everybody across all geographic and racial pantheons). A Spellplague erupts on Toril, marked by erratic wild magic that appears as Blue Fire that spreads from caster to caster. In time, Mystra fights off the infection and wakes up. To save the ailing Weave, she tears apart the Shadow Weave to patch the holes, like an old blanket. It's a bit weaker now, and needs new ways of accessing it. The Weave is rebooted, and spellcasters slowly adjust to the new 4e rules. In the end, Mystra has been divorced from the Weave, which is now independent of any god for it's own protection, by Ao's suggestion. The various gods of magic across the world form a wizardly cabal to manage and govern it. They could ban a wizard or another god from accessing the Weave, but only by majority vote. But the cabal of magic gods is fractious and feuding, rarely meet and never agree on anything. Back on Toril, mages and faiths dedicated to each magic god mirror these feuds, while any spellcaster willing to try something big with magic has to get enough magic gods on side. This magic god cabal consists of deities of magic on Toril, and has representatives for each type and flavour, with several new deities. Finder Wyvernspur gains Transmutation, Malyk bursts out of Talos and takes Evocation, Savras and Azuth and Velsharoon are as before. Mystra's NG, and represents good uses of magic and other things. And Leira's back. Turns out she's been hiding in Cyric's shadow all along, whispering lies in his ear to save herself, but she most certainly wasn't behind his biggest crimes, and definitely not the attack on Mystra. She resumes her old position of goddess of lies and illusion, and takes her place on the cabal. *** Cyric, if he has to stick around, survives and is freed of his madness (which was induced by Leira and Shar). He becomes a Loki-like god, a clever trickster of shady motives, and maybe not even evil. *** RAS's pet Orc kingdom in the Silver Marches goes ahead as planned. Orcs are mixed around the Realms: Many Arrows, Airspur, Thesk and Odonti Orcs are the new 4e not-so-evil type. The rest remain typical marauders. *** The Drow gods are alive and as standard. I don't follow the series, so I couldn't say how. *** As are the Dwarf gods Haela and Gorm, Ladugeur and Duerra. Abbathor leaves the Mordinsamman and allies himself with Ladugeur and Deep Duerra, where they begin the Dark Mordinsamman. *** Ten years are advanced. Events in the Realms have been steady and almost peaceful, at least up until the events of 1384/5. Some old NPCs have retired, others have taken their place. History has moved on, sans RSEs. The epic mages of before are at much saner levels, including Elminster, the Chosen and the Sisters. They are all relearning magic, but remain pretty formidable. Every time an old plot hook is resolved or a BBEG defeated in the new FRCG, it says "adventurers did it", not an NPC, not a novel character, but you, the PCs, if you ever did that previously. Old plots and schemes are closed, some factions and alliances disbanded. New ones are created to fill their place. The new Realms begins in the aftermath of the Spellplague, which hasn't been too bad all told. PCs are picking up the pieces, working with Elminster and others, and building a better tomorrow. *** The time-line may advance, but much slower for folks who play online. :D *** Novels are nice, but not necessary. They are as canon as players want them to be. Most stories are about ordinary adventurers having ordinary adventurers, like the PCs, but not taking their places. There are no more RSEs, personal agendas, tales about gods or epic characters.
Alediran 10-12-07, 11:05 AM	@BadCatMan: Almost all of what you wrote sounds good and realmsian, except for the part of Mystra and the Weave separating. Mystra is the avatar of the Weave. Mystra is good because most spellcasters in Toril are good and or neutral and that belief is what makes Mystra good.
Keahi19 10-12-07, 11:05 AM	I'd have killed off Lolth, not Vhaerun and had Vhaerun finally unite the drow so they would be an "actual" threat rather than a percieved one. Such potential and it's going to waste.
BadCatMan 10-12-07, 11:55 AM	@BadCatMan: Almost all of what you wrote sounds good and realmsian, except for the part of Mystra and the Weave separating. Mystra is the avatar of the Weave. Mystra is good because most spellcasters in Toril are good and or neutral and that belief is what makes Mystra good. I know, and I agree perfectly. Magic helps people, usually the spellcasters, hence it is good. Anything past that is someone else's problem. But I figured that was one of the things that came from on high, given the responses of the designers who have obviously been listening to the trolls, so I went with an appropriate compromise. In my model above, Mystra would remain the figurehead of the Weave and magic, and lead speaker among the magic gods. The embodiment of magic, if not the body of magic. But personally I would like to see where the other gods of magic sit in relation to Mystra and the Weave. Surely they should play equal parts to that Faerunian goddess. Hence my cabal.
Karsus the Mad 10-12-07, 12:25 PM	+ Epic Magic is no longer forbidden in FR: Ironically, it's an in game option but right now it needs to be rediscovered by most except Larloch. Epic Magic has never been forbidden, and there are many who are capable of utilizing it. Most notably the Simbul and anyone who has the Epic Spellcasting feat, anyone with a single level in Netherese arcanist (they get Epic Spellcasting as a bonus feat), as well as every Elven High Mage (High Magic being the elven term for Epic Magic). Unless you meant true 10th+ magic needs to be rediscovered? That sort of magic is banned. Won't 4e have 25 levels of spellcasting progression?
MarkusTay63 10-12-07, 02:07 PM	I'd flip the Sundering Switch. Once I flipped the Sundering Switch, I don't need a Time of Troubles, or a spellplague. Then I just reset the calendar to 1372, and let the writers do what they want. I would make people write novels in the past with a maximum of the year 1345, except Ed Greenwood and Elaine, who I would allow to be exempt.Pretty much the same (since I thought of the 'Sunder-Switch' - catchy name). Then I would re-write the Realms in my own glorious image, which would be close to what we have, with a few tweaks. In fact, I would probably changed a lot of the racial stuff, just as they are doing, and get rid of all the sub-races (sub-races can become templates). I'd have a Goblinoid Kingdom, in lieu of an all-Orcish one (with Orcs too, though), but I'd place it somewhere east, probably in Vassa and Damara. Then for added fun, I'd add in a Hobgoblin Kingdom where Narfell is (which would be slightly oriental in flavor, to use against the Tuigan). I'd have a small Gnollish kingdom in the eastern Shaar, below Lake Azulduth, but they would not be evil, more neutral (like Amerinds), and Veldorn would exist as 'frontier' country rather then a monstrous one. On the other end of the Shar I'd place a Kingdom of Lionmen (In Old Shaareach) - not Wemics, I always hated Wemics. I'd make The North more like the original product of the same name - roving Barbarians (no Orcs except in the mountains) everywhere, and no Silver Marches (Silverymoon could stay). Instead of Ten-Towns, I would give the Rauthym/Illuskan race more real estate. With an "Un-Sundering" I could just raise Rauthym back up and make it a large Island Kingdom, or better yet a Peninsula that only attaches to the main continent by a very thin strip of land in the far north (explaining tribal migrations in early times better, when the 'bay' would freeze over). I'd get rid of Unther, just as they have done, but I'd give Mulhorand a little more uniqueness somehow. Perhaps actually merge the Untheric and Pharaonic Pantheons, and change the names up a wee bit. I'd also keep all of the 'Middle-Eastern' flovored stuff in the south, not spread out everywhere. Probably either move Zakhara up, or Calimshan down into the Shining South. If I moved Calimshan, I would stick some other decadent ancient Empire in its place that has broken up into smaller states over time (Amn, Tethyr, Erlkazar, etc). Not sure what flavor I would want for that though - perhaps move the Turmish down here to give as some ancient black Empire, with strange new customs and traditions. Then I can place a Rome-like state where Turmish used to be (Dathia?). I supppose that means I would actually have more 'fallen but still active' Empires then the current setting has, but most of them would be old, small, and decadent at this point (not having made the transition from the Bronze Age well). Once I move Turmish and Calimshan, Chult's gotta go. My more-advanced Nubian kingdom would be take the place of Mezro, so there wouldn't be a need for it anywhere on the main continent. I'd probably make it Large Island between Faerūn and Katashaka, where Nimbral is. Treat it just like Xendrik in Eberron. I'm not crazy about Evermeet, but if I were to keep it, it would be a naturally occurring Island more where Lantan is (Elves should be in a warmer climate, IMHO). I'm not sure if I would even keep Lantan and Nimbral - probably Lantan but move it somewhere. maybe where the Moonshaes are - but then I'd have to move the Moonshaes to (probably create somthing between Amn and The North, 'just' off the coast, with the main island seperated from the mainland by a channel (yes, very much like England - I know). Wouldn't touch the Heartlands much at all, except for some minor history re-writes (with all the Kingdoms moving about). So basically it would still feel like the Realms, and all the main players would still be there, but a different and -dare I say it - more cohesive dynamic would enfold. Oh yeah, I would replace Anauroch with something very similar to the Mournlands. Much cooler then a desert, and I'd be able to axe those inapproriate Bedine. I'd also leave a strip of un-Mourn land in the far north, so there would be a pass for traders and caravans to get through in the few summer months. MORE opportunities for adventures that way, with the more civilized eastern Heartlands trading with the frontier-like Western heartlands. Just for kicks, I might take big and boring Waterdeep (which has NO business being on a frontier) and downgrade it to a rough & tumble style frontier city, ala 1800's Los Angeles - but more like the scarey version in the Deadlands setting. And last but not least, Halrua would start building Skyship stations in a few major cities, to help characters get about and create another theatre for adventures (ariel). These things would be a recent development, and under constant attack by dragons and all sorts of flying beasties. So I guess I'm just as bad as the official designers, if not worse, but at least with an 'Un-Sundering' the year could stay 1375 with all of the new magical traditions and whatever else 4e throws at us. Also, gods would be enigmatic beings that almost NEVER interact with mortals, and if they appear in a novel the author will be executed immediately. And no dumb-a$$ ToT either. Go back to the original pantheon without all that Xatchu-Vim cr@p! Midnight, Kelemvor and Cyric went on with their dreary mortal lives until killed by a pack of rabid Kobolds in 1365 DR. It was tragic, but Cyric fought boldy to protect his friends right to the very end. -- The End
Inexorable 10-12-07, 04:54 PM	It's not a theory, it's a law now. Maybe your law... but thankfully not anyone in control. If I had the control of the forgotten realms I would have killed off mystra and her chosen long ago so I'd keep what happens in the Grand History of the Realms adding that all of her chosen go insane or die outright with her demise. Those that survive are insane and go on a Faerun-wide rampage leveling cities and are eventually put down like the mad dogs they are. Perhaps one of the chosen is cured and manages to survive but is wracked with grief from his/her goddess' death and his/her actions and commits suicide. Bane never would have come back and Iyachtu Xvim would still be around, so he dies, more than likely in some incompetent way that is true to his form. Velsharoon would have been killed off by Talos, so after he is thrown into the nether or whatever happens after mystra dies, Talos, through promises of power, threats, etc. has Malar hunt him down and drag him before the Destroyer for a fitting execution. Shar would kill off mask and finally take what belongs to her. Other then that I'm thinking I wouldn't change much of anything. Cyric would suffer the same fate, imprisonment, but he's on his home plane so he can still communicate with his followers and priests, he just can't manifest anything on the material world. More than likely he would free himself or get someone, willingly or not, to do it for him and yes 100 years in the future he would be freed. I like the changes coming and everything I've read so far seems like something I'm going to like. Will it feel like the realms? I don't know. In all honesty I don't know what that means. Same gods, same people, same lands... sure some will be gone and there will be some definite changes but yeah I guess it will feel like the realms to me just like it always has. Something in the Orc King novel about the coming of the Aboleths? Sign me up... always liked the aberrations and the dark twisted creatures and people. Kind of why I've always liked Cyric.
Charles Phipps 10-12-07, 04:57 PM	I'd only kill off Lolth at the climax of an Expedition to the Demon Web Pits adventure. ;-)
MarkusTay63 10-12-07, 05:10 PM	It's not Mystra, or her Chosen, or even Lolth and Eilistraee, or any of the other devine nonsense that should go - it's their inept handling by authors. They were fine before the writers got ahold of them. Other settings do not have these kinds of problems, because they do not portray their gods and epic characters as the X-men!!! These are not super-heroes, and treating them as such makes the setting appear silly to outsiders. The characters/gods weren't broken - just the stories about them.
Bonzai 10-12-07, 05:49 PM	There are two fold problems I have in answering this. First, I don't know the entirety of the changes that are happening to magic and everything else. Second, Some of the changes I do know about I am against. That aside, First I would let the realms settle down for a time. Focusing on the Micro, instead of the Macro. Instead of realm wide events effecting everything, I would introduce a series of events that effect small localized areas. Perhaps a pack of Malar's followers have taken root in the North. Rumors of a powerful artifact in the Raurin desert. The Zhents mobilizing to retake Shadowdale. Lots of plot hooks that can lead to adventures, the results of which only effect the immediate region. This would include a large portion of the Novels too. Far reaching, "epic" adventures will still happen from time to time, but will be a rare exception. Second, I would focus on the quality of the products, not quantity. I would make a set number of FR source books a year, and focus on them being of exceptional quality. By that I mean that the books be informative, that they take into account existing lore, that they are proof read and errors are corrected, and that the book be the definative source for the topic in question. Example: If the Source book is about Thay. I would have detailed maps, an extensive history that includes any pertinent events covered in any previous material, detailed information on the daily life and customs of a thayan, from a slave to a Zhuilker. Holidays, customs laws, Fashions and styles, etc... Detailed information on each notable town and important npcs. A collection of all the various Thayan PrCs, spells, magic items, artifacts, feats etc... Lastly I would have a collection of plot hooks, and a short Thayan adventure. I can't go in to to much specifics as towards direction until more information is revealed. But the priority should be to be true to the setting, and to the fans who keep it alive. To keep the Realms unique, and to preserve it's unique flavor, as opposed to the 4.E Mission statement of "simplifying" and bringing it in line with the other settings.
Charles Phipps 10-12-07, 07:41 PM	The "bring it in line with other settings" is ironic since it's now the standard one. :-p
Karsus the Mad 10-12-07, 08:58 PM	It's not Mystra, or her Chosen, or even Lolth and Eilistraee, or any of the other devine nonsense that should go - it's their inept handling by authors. That is *precisely* the reason why I don't think FR deities should be detailed beyond their clergy's personal views. Mortals simply cannot comprehend. But then they go and make how deities are portrayed by mortals into "that's what the deity is like"....why any deity has an Intelligence above 3 is beyond me...they certainly don't behave like they have anything higher in novels...
Charles Phipps 10-12-07, 10:13 PM	Dude, Faerun's deities have ALWAYS been petulent children. It's why I just rolled my eyes at suggestions the TOT shouldn't have happened because the gods were wise and powerful. They're a bunch of portfolio dominated asshats.
Old Sage 10-12-07, 10:22 PM	I would rather have TIAX than Cyric. Let TIAX rule! :)Does 'King-Tiax' mean anything to you?
msatran 10-12-07, 11:29 PM	Heh. Actually, I ran an adventure where Tiax and his extraplanar double named Xait switched places. The PC's had to stop Xait from placing iron helmets on people, because in Xait's world, he really DID take over the world, and now he was trying to take over theirs. The best part of the entire adventure was when Xait and Tiax finally met (The PC's met him when he arrived too late to take over the world by a few moments), and then they were both brutally sucked into a pocket dimension from which there was no escape. Nothing like an adventure ending with "Noooo...NOOOO...TIAX RULES...TIAX RULES! TIAX RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULES..." That was funny. Nonetheless, Markus, you don't NEED to have another goblinoid kingdom. The Sothelissan Empire is ALREADY THERE!
MarkusTay63 10-13-07, 12:01 AM	Thats the first thing I'd get rid of. :P I like my goblinoids/monsters tucked away nice and neat in some corner somewhere, and give human barbarians a chance at making hordes. :dancin:
msatran 10-13-07, 12:47 AM	Sadly, I am now torn between getting rid of it and getting rid of Obox Ob.
johnkretzer 10-13-07, 02:03 AM	Dude, Faerun's deities have ALWAYS been petulent children. It's why I just rolled my eyes at suggestions the TOT shouldn't have happened because the gods were wise and powerful. They're a bunch of portfolio dominated asshats. Actualy you are wrong...it wasn't till ToT came out this notion came about...and it was a very bad idea to do..which is why I have choosen to ignore all the books after the ToT that deals with the gods. I mean I have played characters that worshipp these gods, they don't do it for the power they do it because they feel in their hearts that the thing those gods represent are worth while. I have had characters who have devoted their lives to the cause of these gods, have died for them, have had interacted with them, have been inspired by them. Having them behaved in a way that make 5 years old seem mature and reasoned counters there purpose of inspiring heroic action. I mean if I follow the books all my characters would be aitheists because these gods as shown don't deserve worship they deseve to be laughed at.
johnkretzer 10-13-07, 02:04 AM	Sadly, I am now torn between getting rid of it and getting rid of Obox Ob. Well granted I am prejudice in this...but get rid of them both...we can do it...:)
johnkretzer 10-13-07, 02:20 AM	What? And have "BadCatMan Must Be Stopped!" bumper-stickers and t-shirts everywhere? Actually, that would be quite cool. :D Mainly I'll just reinterpret existing events to something more positive, assuming certain things are set in stone. Get out of my head....:D I guess we both have great minds as we seem to be thinking alike... Though some differences...like 1) Leira chooses the moment of the attack to reveal her self saving Mystra. 2) The attack makes Mystra realize that it is time to break up the duty of the Weave with the many gods of magic. She is diminished and shares the power with the other gods of magic. Since they is multiple gods reflecting the weave a new way need to be made to establish that(hence the new 4th edition rules). 3) Cyric is stripped of his hatred for Midnight and is set loose again...though his staus is greatly diminished to that of a god of madness, murder, and ambition. Though he is threaten by Bane and Mask for his past actions. And his busy fending them off. 4) Shar goes back to being what she is...a long time planner...she is patient she can wait and fight the battles she knows she can win. 5) the whole Tymora/Helm/Tyr/Sune thing just doesn't happen...except for Siamorph moving to Brightwaters.
BadCatMan 10-13-07, 02:40 AM	Heh. :D I like that too. Actually, these are all good, and infinitely better than what we've been given. D'you think WotC went with the worst possible idea just so we couldn't claim it as our own? I forgot the Tyr/Helm/Tymora/Sune/Siamorphe thing. That was all false gossip put about by Leira to fill some women's magazines. Leira becomes the goddess of tabloid journalism and soapies as a result of the affair. (Oddly, IMC, Leira maybe survived, is maybe hiding out under the protection of Oghma and Deneir, and is maybe managing fiction and gossip and such things and helping them sort truth from lie, and editing the Metatext for errors. Maybe. :D)
johnkretzer 10-13-07, 02:55 AM	Heh. :D I like that too. Actually, these are all good, and infinitely better than what we've been given. D'you think WotC went with the worst possible idea just so we couldn't claim it as our own? I forgot the Tyr/Helm/Tymora/Sune/Siamorphe thing. That was all false gossip put about by Leira to fill some women's magazines. Leira becomes the goddess of tabloid journalism and soapies as a result of the affair. (Oddly, IMC, Leira maybe survived, is maybe hiding out under the protection of Oghma and Deneir, and is maybe managing fiction and gossip and such things and helping them sort truth from lie, and editing the Metatext for errors. Maybe. :D) Personaly I think a small part of the changes are because they don't want to put in the work to keep thing consistent and are tired of people who do keep things consistent critizing them. So in a infantile reaction they changed things so that they are right. And we are wrong....that might be a little harsh, but then again people motives have always bee rarely pure.
Shadojack 10-14-07, 11:33 AM	Giant asteroids stirke with few survivors. Simple, sexy, elegant, and quick. The big boys die off, the land is reformed, and now a new line of adventurers have to go out and retame the land. New kingdoms will be formed, alliances made, and first level newbies have to tame the land and start a new civilizations without Drizzt, The Seven, or any other of the seemingly endless array of high powered minions and sevants of gods running around. No more damn extra-planer creatures or strange half-breeds, just the core races. No more ultra powerful casters with trinkets to destroy an entire city. Magic is a lost art and people have to rely on themselves and each other to survive, not use a wand of fireballs to stat a cooking fire. A sword +1 would be a family heirloom to pass down the generations. No kings, queens, or countries to wage war at some perceived slight or insult. The gods are powerless and inept. With so many of their worshippers gone they have to actually try to aid what believers they still have left without trying to manipulate their lives. Or new gods appear. Local small gods who are not as powerful as their predecessores, but actually care about those around them. Waterdeep, Neverwinter, and other coastal cities are buried under phathoms of sea water creating new dungeons for adventurers to explore and try to recover parts of the past. The course of rivers are changed, lands are upended, chasms open and swallow whole cities before covering them back up again. In short the Appocolipse destroys almost everything and the enitire continent starts from scratch. Of course if the Realms had not become a giant mess of conflicting lore and gods consistantly interfering in the lives of everyday mortals, not to mention a playground of half-breeds and lineages that completely ruined the flavor of the game, this would not be needed. But that's what I would do. :evillaugh
RadicalTaoist 10-14-07, 04:07 PM	Frankly, if I were in charge, I would have reinvented FR total. Something like an 'Ultimate Faerun' in the style of the new canon reinventions used by Marvel in their ultimate series. Tone down the problematic aspects (the anachronistic sense of everything being thrown together and lack of centrality, all the giant superleveled NPCs that make the PCs insignificant more often than not, the bloated pantheons, and more) zero in on the cool parts and polish them up to capture the original feel of what made them awesome. Then advance it to a certain story point full of Realms-wide potential for intrigue, conflict, and adventure - and freeze it there, turning it into a static-metaplot setting like Eberron. Minus details, it's what I'd do.
johnkretzer 10-14-07, 04:31 PM	Minus details, it's what I'd do. Didn't you just quote yourself? :confused:
meto30 10-14-07, 05:58 PM	What? And have "BadCatMan Must Be Stopped!" bumper-stickers and t-shirts everywhere? Actually, that would be quite cool. :D Mainly I'll just reinterpret existing events to something more positive, assuming certain things are set in stone. *** Backed by Shar, Cyric attacked Mystra, and was subsequently blasted into a million pieces (or the lil' bastard survived and crawled off somewhere - you decide!), but not before getting off a lucky strike. Unfortunately the blade was coated with a disease/poison made by Shar (and Talona, why not?), and Mystra is infected with the Shadow Weave. Mystra lies feverish and barely conscious for some time, and in her absense, other gods of magic manage the damaged Weave and spellcasting in their respective areas of influence (Corellon, Laduguer, Azuth, Savras, Velsharoon, everybody across all geographic and racial pantheons). A Spellplague erupts on Toril, marked by erratic wild magic that appears as Blue Fire that spreads from caster to caster. In time, Mystra fights off the infection and wakes up. To save the ailing Weave, she tears apart the Shadow Weave to patch the holes, like an old blanket. It's a bit weaker now, and needs new ways of accessing it. The Weave is rebooted, and spellcasters slowly adjust to the new 4e rules. In the end, Mystra has been divorced from the Weave, which is now independent of any god for it's own protection, by Ao's suggestion. The various gods of magic across the world form a wizardly cabal to manage and govern it. They could ban a wizard or another god from accessing the Weave, but only by majority vote. But the cabal of magic gods is fractious and feuding, rarely meet and never agree on anything. Back on Toril, mages and faiths dedicated to each magic god mirror these feuds, while any spellcaster willing to try something big with magic has to get enough magic gods on side. This magic god cabal consists of deities of magic on Toril, and has representatives for each type and flavour, with several new deities. Finder Wyvernspur gains Transmutation, Malyk bursts out of Talos and takes Evocation, Savras and Azuth and Velsharoon are as before. Mystra's NG, and represents good uses of magic and other things. And Leira's back. Turns out she's been hiding in Cyric's shadow all along, whispering lies in his ear to save herself, but she most certainly wasn't behind his biggest crimes, and definitely not the attack on Mystra. She resumes her old position of goddess of lies and illusion, and takes her place on the cabal. *** Cyric, if he has to stick around, survives and is freed of his madness (which was induced by Leira and Shar). He becomes a Loki-like god, a clever trickster of shady motives, and maybe not even evil. *** RAS's pet Orc kingdom in the Silver Marches goes ahead as planned. Orcs are mixed around the Realms: Many Arrows, Airspur, Thesk and Odonti Orcs are the new 4e not-so-evil type. The rest remain typical marauders. *** The Drow gods are alive and as standard. I don't follow the series, so I couldn't say how. *** As are the Dwarf gods Haela and Gorm, Ladugeur and Duerra. Abbathor leaves the Mordinsamman and allies himself with Ladugeur and Deep Duerra, where they begin the Dark Mordinsamman. *** Ten years are advanced. Events in the Realms have been steady and almost peaceful, at least up until the events of 1384/5. Some old NPCs have retired, others have taken their place. History has moved on, sans RSEs. The epic mages of before are at much saner levels, including Elminster, the Chosen and the Sisters. They are all relearning magic, but remain pretty formidable. Every time an old plot hook is resolved or a BBEG defeated in the new FRCG, it says "adventurers did it", not an NPC, not a novel character, but you, the PCs, if you ever did that previously. Old plots and schemes are closed, some factions and alliances disbanded. New ones are created to fill their place. The new Realms begins in the aftermath of the Spellplague, which hasn't been too bad all told. PCs are picking up the pieces, working with Elminster and others, and building a better tomorrow. *** The time-line may advance, but much slower for folks who play online. :D *** Novels are nice, but not necessary. They are as canon as players want them to be. Most stories are about ordinary adventurers having ordinary adventurers, like the PCs, but not taking their places. There are no more RSEs, personal agendas, tales about gods or epic characters. I think I have found the new setting for my Campaign. Thank you! :) Although I'm going to leave Cyric alive and healthy. I believe my campaign needs him because the party then would have a figurehead to blame everything on. Besides, PCs can always kick his ass and kill him afterwards. :) Ah, the idea of party killing Cyric who's made mortal by Ao. Cyric cries out "I am god! I am supreme! I cannot be defeated! No, this cannot be! NO!"
RadicalTaoist 10-14-07, 09:08 PM	Didn't you just quote yourself? :confused: Yes...I can see where "it's what I'd do" might imply I was referring to someone else's idea, but given the effort into quoting a post on another thread (some copy/paste is necessary) I'd think it a little obvious I'm aware that was my post. :P Ah, the idea of party killing Cyric who's made mortal by Ao. Cyric cries out "I am god! I am supreme! I cannot be defeated! No, this cannot be! NO!" After this, death is pretty much instantaneous. (http://minievil.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html)
johnkretzer 10-14-07, 11:16 PM	Yes...I can see where "it's what I'd do" might imply I was referring to someone else's idea, but given the effort into quoting a post on another thread (some copy/paste is necessary) I'd think it a little obvious I'm aware that was my post. :P My bad...:embarrass
Crazygx34 10-15-07, 04:56 PM	If I was in lead I have makit more for general audience and not just hard fantasy gamer. It have to much horror. Just look loftr it almost the same and kid play with their figure. I will have make more comic book and tv comic serie or normal serie like stargate. Good artitistic movie with great special effect. But maybe I'm to low in the staff as creative lead to make all this change.:rolleyes:
Hopeless 10-15-07, 05:42 PM	Well I'd have revealed that Tharizdun was actually in control of Cyric and his attack on Mystra was because he recognised she was the keeper of some power that he believed if destroyed would free him from his prison. However the Tyr affair is purely lies arranged as payback for Cyric's imprisonment following the deed. What actually happened was although Tharizdun wasn't freed the massive backlash reversed the effects of an ancient event merging Faerun with Mystara resulting in Alphatia being transported from within the Hollow World back to the world above and THEY are what founds Netheril the shade's own realm collapsed as a result of the magic backlash. ALL of the gods as a result of this event have found themselves barred from the realms, they can still converse with their followers but are just as much unable to interact directly as those of the Sovereign Host in Eberron. However this event has also things from other spheres to cross over thus changelings, shifters, warforged, artificers, dragonmarks, tieflings, etc have become acknowledged even though most account for their presence via an act of one or more of the gods. Lolth becomes more powerful amoung the drow in the underdark but at the cost that her power withers above ground, this even allows her to dominate and seize sole power over her realm but the other drow gods have to settle with their followers fleeing to the surface to avoid extinction albeit facing worse from the surface dwellers. Lolth's power also effects the dwarves whom lose a number of their members in battle with their new nemesis and the duergar change sides to escape their fate at Lolth's hands. Magic disappears for a good while, the sole source is Alphatia which seizes command of its new fiefdom and everyone bows to their will however they're not as malevolent as the shades but over time this changes as the shades quickly recover and slowly work to seize control of the new Netheril and do so in a stunning coup 20 years before the start of the new campaign (if 100 years ahead) leading to a resistance being formed as former loyal alphatians seek to stop the florishing empire their only hope lies in a new era of heroes from both worlds... The Seven Sisters have been reduced to 2, Dove widowed commands whats left of the survivors of Shadowdale and those of the dalelands not under the control of Zhentil Keep who serve the new regime, her sister Storm now commands the Harpers and is the Realms version of Mon Mothma. Elminster hasn't been seen for decades, the line of Cormyr hangs in doubt as it is now under the control of a Shade puppet but rumor says there remains a living heir to the throne in hiding. Halrua was nearly destroyed but found favour with the Alphatians but this favour has dwindled to nothing since the new regime gained control and are playing both sides in hopes of surviving the next war. The Mystaran continent is a mystery as Alphatia has mde little headway there but rumours persist that it is home to powerful allies but this is mere rumour that noone has been able to verify... The greatest rumour is that an airship NOT of Netheril design has been seen travelling between the far flung reaches of the realms, its crew said to consist of a powerful woman with a silver arm said to be able to assume the form of a powerful silver dragon, a halfling female mistress of technology, a stone and metal goliath yet not a golem backs them with a mysterious cleric of a long thought dead god and they protect a young child, a magi said to be the clone of an ancient Alphatian archmage returned from the dead once again... PS: Sorry got a little carried away there!
Charles Phipps 10-15-07, 07:24 PM	Well, I said my version, but if I had to do a "crowd pleasing" and "Realms shaking" version, I'd do this. * Mystra is killed by Cyric after absorbing the Shadow Weave. * However, this results in a Mega Module Towers of Cyric where he briefly takes control of all Magic in the Realms and raises towers to solidify his control over magic. * The player characters get to ressurect Midnight at the end of it. * Officially, the player characters also get the opportunity to release Bhaal's imprisoned soul in Kelemvor's realm into Cyric's body. * Cyric, officially, is slain and Bhaal becomes the new Lord of Murder. Bhaal soon kills Garagos and absorbs his portfolio. Thus; Bhaal the CE God of Madness, Rapine, Pillage, Battle Frenzy, and Murder is in the pantheon. He's an enemy of Tempus. * Mask gets the portfolio of Illusion, Lies, and Intrigue (for helping in Cyric's final destruction). It's revealed that Mask and Vhaeraun are two aspects of the same god with him taking over the worship of most male Drow. Absorbing so much of Leira's essence also results in him shifting to CN in alignment. * Myrkul is ressurected by Velsharoon possessing the Crown of Horns and becoming an Intermediate deity of Undeath and Necromancy. Orcus becomes nothing more than a servant of Myrkul and a regular Demon Prince with Kiranshlee and his followers now venerating Myrkul. * House Jaeral fully becomes an outright Drow Kingdom on the surface world, allying with Dambrath using portals plus the Daemonfae. * The Dalelands formally merge with Cormyr, doubling its territory. * Zhentil Keep becomes a full country as well, with Manshoon as its King. Thar is also united with an alliance with Zhentilas. * Unther is finally conquered by Mulhorand but then a war begins with Thay. This war goes much better for them than the one against the Simbul. * Manshoon convinces a massive number of Thayans to defect and the Enclaves become Black Network facilities. * Laeral takes over Blackstaff tower and opens an academy.
Crazygx34 10-15-07, 11:16 PM	The greatest rumour is that an airship NOT of Netheril design has been seen travelling between the far flung reaches of the realms, its crew said to consist of a powerful woman with a silver arm said to be able to assume the form of a powerful silver dragon, a halfling female mistress of technology, a stone and metal goliath yet not a golem backs them with a mysterious cleric of a long thought dead god and they protect a young child, a magi said to be the clone of an ancient Alphatian archmage returned from the dead once again... PS: Sorry got a little carried away there! Wow! good story a woman transforming herself in silver dragon in a airship protecting child... I like it.:)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-17-07, 11:12 AM	I don't think I'd want to be "in charge", because even then I'd likely have to answer to someone who wants the Realms a certain way, when I'd rather shape them how I want to. What I would do, though, is hold off on the RSEs for a while (or do just one at a time, and make them few and far inbetween) and go for a gradual, organic progression of the setting.
MarkusTay63 10-17-07, 04:00 PM	What would you do if you had creative lead? Give the entire thing back to Ed Greenwood and ask him to 'fix it'. ;)
Stigger 10-17-07, 04:36 PM	Once again Markus, I think that's probably the best idea I've yet heard on this thread. :D
Charles Phipps 10-17-07, 07:49 PM	Ed Greenwood "And it turns out everything since the Greybox was a dream..."
Stigger 10-17-07, 07:58 PM	Hee-hee, one can hope... ;) :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-17-07, 08:26 PM	Once again Markus, I think that's probably the best idea I've yet heard on this thread. :D Yes, I am impressed too.:)
Dark Wizard 10-23-07, 10:30 PM	If I had creative control of the Realms, before I even get to any specific creative points I would push to implement some administrative guidelines and overall housekeeping. Establishing a more robust setting guide ("setting bible" if you will), less so in terms of actual lore but as an editor's or lead designer's checklist to increase the feel of setting cohesion, consistency, playability and sustainability. I would gather the long-time Realms authors and designers (along with the new guys) and have them hammer out a guide on the Realm's theme(s), atmosphere and genre. Now I understand this serves to narrow down the Realms more than some would like. Some would say that they like the Realms because it has a little bit of something for everyone. That is true, I agree. However, I feel it is vitally important for people, especially the designers, to have a good sense of what the world is all about. That would help reduce the haphazard growth seen in TSR's days, while it was great for the sheer quantity of information available on the Realms, I personally can't agree it was good for setting consistency. More generally, certain aspects of the Realms are just blander or out of place than they should be. I have no doubt that if the designers did the job right, any solid themes/atmosphere/genre they ascribe to the Realms will leave enough room for expansion, even into other ideas not originally considered in the setting guideline. If I were lead designer I would push for a more individualized "sword and sorcery" feel than the world shaking "high fantasy" direction. I think this presents a more sustainable setting in the long run so we don't have to come back in five years to do this all over again, which will only damage the setting as a place for both games and novels. Another step I would take would be to make the novels not automatically canon. This wouldn't present a major problem since most of the novels would be smaller scale stories influencing regions and not the entire world. However, unlike Eberron, there will be a gradual process to absorb novel plots into the setting, it would just be far more controlled than the auto-canon policy the Realms operates under today. With this, if a novel becomes particularly troublesome, little action is needed to prevent it from disrupting the setting. this still gives the novel department plenty of opportunity to shine and they still have a significant effect on the setting, but the setting designers have more power to straighten things out if needed. Of course the novel and setting departments would work closely together to ensure that most of this flows together anyway. I would try to limit the number and scope of RSEs, definitely for a while after the edition change. Even then I wouldn't push for them unless it can be worked in well. Also I would lower the stats of many NPCs to something closer to their original incarnations or to whatever makes the most sense under the new rules, which should accommodate the vast majority of them anyway. There is no explanation necessary since this is under an edition change that reinterprets character stats according to the new rules. Finally taking the theme/atmosphere/genre guide I would try to give the Realms an art direction corresponding to that so all the source books look like they belong to the same setting. I would go for a mix of action pieces and daily life depictions to provide a more diverse view of the setting. I would try to have art orders include more landscapes and setting views to show people what the world looks like and not just the iconic characters. Even with the character portraits I would push for more substantial backgrounds. Strange as it may sound I think part of the perception of an iconic NPC filled Realms is their prominent appearance in the artwork and it usually is just the character void of any background. It is a type of focus on NPCs in another way outside of novel and source book text mentions. In the novel department I would push for a series of original FR-based comic books. The Drizzt comics are nice and all, but they're rehashing novel stories and further emphasizing the dark elf's inflated role in the setting. Not that I mean to end the Drizzt comics, they can continue right as they are, but the original story and characters could help broaden the appeal and appearance of the Realms. Another thing on my list of things I would like to see would be the occasional guest novelist for the FR novels, try to get somewhat famous fantasy novelists to contribute. I don't mean the likes of Stephen King or George R.R. Martin but just authors who are somewhat well known in the genre and may have shared world writing credits who have yet to work in the Realms yet. Perhaps this is an unrealizable dream of bringing a wider appeal to the Realms. This really depends on the specifics of the Realms if I were in charge and on the authors who agree to this. There is one final project I would like to push for, that would be an animated show based in the Realms with original, lower to mid-level characters. Nothing will get attention like television. The animation would aim for something more serious look like the Batman/Superman/JLA animated series, Avatar, or yes even Transformers. Having Hasbro okay the resources necessary for this would be key. Of course they get merchandising out of the deal, action figures, video games, etc. But since I'm not ever going to get into such a job, Markus' idea of letting the most qualified person figure things out works just fine by me.
graymocker 10-24-07, 06:19 AM	I would do nothing. Let me clarify. There's really very little reason to put out a FRCS for 4E. FRCS 3E has maybe a handful of mechanics in it, and none of them are particularly good or useful; people buy FRCS - and, to a lesser degree, other setting books - for the history and lore. History and lore is mechanics-agnostic and can be used in any game system. Heck, 80% of the pages in FRCS would work just as well with, say, GURPS as it does with DnD, and the remaining 20% isn't very good crunch material anyway. Does a statblock that says Drizzt is a Fighter 5/Ranger 10/Barbarian 1 or whatever really contribute anything to my customer's enjoyment of the setting? Would updating that statblock to my new game system, bundled into a new book that is largely a rehashing of existing material, endear me to my audience? Of course not. So, I'd say, "stick a fork in it, we're done." Fans of the setting can keep using their existing sourcebooks for lore and use the new core mechanics books for their mechanics, if they want. There's no need to milk them for another edition of sourcebook purchases. Incidentally, this is not entirely unlike what WoTC is doing right now. They're essentially saying that the FR that we know is "done" as a campaign setting and that they're creating a "new" FR for 4E, so that the 4E FRCS will actually be composed largely of new material. I know people are upset about the radical changes, but look at it this way - would it be more exploitative for WoTC to sell you the SAME material they've sold you three times before, with superficial mechanics changed, or for them to essentially sell you an entirely NEW setting? I'd take the latter. One change I would make is I'd make it clear in publicity that the "new" FR is, in effect, a new setting inspired by the existing FR. I probably wouldn't call it Forgotten Realms. Give it a new name, but with related branding, to draw a connection yet establish a distinct identity.
Fire_Wraith 10-24-07, 06:51 AM	One change I would make is I'd make it clear in publicity that the "new" FR is, in effect, a new setting inspired by the existing FR. I probably wouldn't call it Forgotten Realms. Give it a new name, but with related branding, to draw a connection yet establish a distinct identity. I'd look more favorably on an entirely new setting than on a Realms setting that has been remade so as to be largely unrecognizeable to me. However, keep in mind that if they 'drop' the Forgotten Realms, the rights to it revert back to Mr. Greenwood. As far as what I'd do - mostly I'd try to incorporate a number of the things that Dark Wizard and Markus have already suggested. I'd focus on trying to moderate any intended changes, such that I don't alienate the existing customer/fan base, but keep enough so that the setting does not grow stagnant. As for drawing in new customers/fans to the Realms, I'm not going to count on any 4th edition changes to do that. The route for that will be through computer games, novels, and other media, such as the animated TV show DW suggested. (Of course, a poorly done one can be worse than nothing at all, if anyone remembers the D&D Movie. :P ) Ultimately, this has to be followed up by word of mouth and outreach/demonstration, so that people make the transition to playing tabletop RPG-style (and buy the books).
graymocker 10-24-07, 07:27 AM	As far as what I'd do - mostly I'd try to incorporate a number of the things that Dark Wizard and Markus have already suggested. I'd focus on trying to moderate any intended changes, such that I don't alienate the existing customer/fan base, but keep enough so that the setting does not grow stagnant. I'm of the opinion that if something is good, it's good and doesn't need tinkering to stay good. There's a lot of strict constructionist "Whatever Ed Greenwood/Grey Box originally said" sentiment on this thread, and I'm very sympathetic to that, but I fail to understand the hostility to radical edition changes that this position creates. If you love the grey box, more power to you. Use the grey box with the new rules and save the $30. It's not like all the history and lore text is suddenly incompatible. If anything, a strict FR constructionist should be hostile to modest edition changes instead of something radically new, because that forces you to shell out once again for a product that is substantively similar, but just different enough that you have to buy it to keep up. When 3E first came out and the new FRCS was still on the horizon, my game group of the time liked 3E, but we also liked FR. So we just played FR with 3E. It's really not that complicated. Just about the only thing we had to create rules for were divine domains, and even those were pretty much self-evident. To digress, I think one of the biggest problems with genre entertainment in general is that its creators don't know when to finish. Led by an irrationally devoted fanbase, they keep adding more and more material until the work loses any overall cohesion, there are no final resolutions, and characterizations become self-contradictory and sink under the weight of accumulated canon. The typical comic book character, for example, if viewed in the totality of their 60-year existence, is entirely incoherent, full of inconsistent motivations and personalities. There is no overarching plot arc, because to conclude the plot would be to kill the golden goose. If there is a satisfying subplot arc, it is immediately undermined in the next installment in order to create a new plot. In a way, it's kind of a precursor to the perverse market strategies of MMOs - emphasize the addictive rainbow-chasing nature of the "grind" and never allow the audience to experience resolution or catharsis (To use a snobby academic term, which I nevertheless think is an admirable ideal for art.) So, again, my solution: Do nothing. Once you've created and fleshed out something good, move on to something new. Your work is already out there, people like it, it's done. Don't let the temptations of a devoted fanbase lull you into a complacent existence of churning out more of the same.