Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Athenon 02-11-04, 05:40 PM	Hi, I just wanted to start a thread where we could discuss products we'd like to see produced for the Realms. Let's break it into two lists of top 5, first five things you would like to see/buy for the Realms and 5 things you think would not be a good use of the few precious products now produced/year. Discuss amongst yourselves!
azildurn 02-11-04, 06:08 PM	I've heard Greenwood talk several times about a leather-bound encylcopedia of the realms that he would write/produce if he were in charge. Obviously with WotC being money grubbers and caring little about the content of the realms as long as it comes in a hardback $35 format this is unlikely to happen. What I'd suggest is for them to spin off an upscale realms product line. Let Greenwood run the project and produce his leather-bound volumes and charge $100 (or $300 if they're nice enough) each for them. Produce 2 or 3 a year and make the margin on them high enough that you don't have to sell one to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that owns a 20-sided to make a profit. Many realms fans would own every volume and the content would be good for a change. Oh well dreams are always pleasant but for this to happen WotC would have to care more about content and customer service/responsiveness than maximization of short-term profit and that will never happen with the bean counter managing school to which they subscribe.
Mystery Man 02-11-04, 06:21 PM	I'd like to see a thoroughly detailed sourcebook on Maztica, Al Qadim and Karatur .....NOT!!!!! :fight!: :smirk: :fight!:
Athenon 02-11-04, 06:23 PM	Azildurn, I think it would be great for more of a Greenwood-directed take on the Realms. I might have to disagree on one point with you - I think that the guys at WotC are less money-grubbing than the are just sellouts to Hasbro. I don't completely mean that in a bad way, I mean they literally had their company bought by a big company only interested in turning a yearly profit, hence 3.$. I do think that the guys at WotC would do better to be innovative and responsive to gamer suggestions, rather than sure about what they should produce. If you'll remember back to around the time that WotC bought TSR, you'll remember that one of the big criticisms the WotC guys had of the old guard was that they never polled their customers as to what they wanted. This has clearly become a problem to me again, and it's funny that they don't realize it. So what I want: 1) Products that detail areas I'd actually use (ie. Cormyr, Sembia, the Vast, Western Heartlands, and the North). 2) High Quality modules like the old Greyhawk modules, both small and large (City of the Spider Queen was a great example of what they should continue). 3) Yearly updates to what's new in the Realms (this could be in Dragon, but a free-standing product would be better) 4) Maps! I'd pay a truly premium rate for a product with high quality poster maps of the Realms. 5) More City or area-specific products like the projects Ed mentioned on the recent Mortailty Radio show (ie. a product focusing on Silverymoon or some other city). What I don't want: 1) More Prestige Classes 2) More Feats 3) More Player Races 4) Non-Realms specific products that are branded as Realms Products (ie. Dungeon of Death). 5) Production money spent on hardback books that might have better served a product by allowing poster maps. My 2 coppers
The_Declaration 02-11-04, 07:39 PM	I don't really know what to add cause I agree almost 100% with what has just been said: I want: 1/ Geographical sourcebooks (Calimshan, Cormyr, Moonshae, Kara-tu,...) 2/ "atmosphere" material, like NPCs (but words, not figures!), stories, legends, short novels,... 3/ maps, i'd LOVE to have a poster of the Realms, yea really 4/ Deepening of magic: might be nice to go beyond lists of spells and items. I love the book of magic, but i'm still hungry: :D 5/ better web material (downloadable maps, might be really useful for gaming...) I don't want: 1/ tons of prestige classes 2/ tons of feats 3/ kitsch illustrations 4/ tons of spells 5/ shitt_y campaigns, like kill the lich, get the gold, then get out the dungeon.
Capn Charlie 02-11-04, 07:48 PM	What I want to see 1) Old empires Sourcebook 2) Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue II 3) Lands Abroad Campaign Setting(With info on Kara Tur, Maztica, and Zakhara) 4) Nuts nad Bolts, a book on the little stuff. Climate, prices for things, how economies work in the realms, and lots of little minutea that would add flavor to the game, like art of designs on coins. 5)A horde-esque mini campaign set on the high seas. What I don't want to see 1) Painful gimping of NPCs, Just because you won't actually use them is no reason to see things like what they did to Drizzt and Artemis 2) Feats and classes purposefully made bland so as to appeal to non FR fans. 3) Less input from Ed 4) An eberron tie in 5) Ineffective villains.
Athenon 02-11-04, 08:12 PM	I liked your suggestions Declaration. Wouldn't it be cool to see a Magister-like product (like FR4 the Magister) for the Realms 3.5? That would really allow them to accomplish a lot of those goals. Charlie: An old Empires product would be great too. I was a real fan of Scott Bennie's FR10 and I think it could really stand to be expanded. I would love a supplement detailing navies of the Realms and/or naval conflicts between them. That would get me excited. Without a doubt Ed needs to be intimately involved in as much of this as he can. He's just too good to not use. There are others too, though. Steven Schend, Eric Boyd, Jeff Grubb and Paul Jaquays have all turned out wonderful products. IT would be great to bring them bvaack into the fold (They've actually already done that with Eric Boyd in Serpent Kingdoms).
Ranger REG 02-11-04, 08:16 PM	Originally posted by Mystery Man I'd like to see a thoroughly detailed sourcebook on Maztica, Al Qadim and Karatur....YES!!! :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :smirk: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!:
The_Declaration 02-11-04, 09:04 PM	I agree that seas, boats, islands don't get enough treatment, and are not enough integrated in the sourcebooks!
Lashan 02-11-04, 10:24 PM	I would like to see a product that is based on trade in the realms, and perhaps a system that can help abstract and streamline buying and selling products in the FR. I would like to see an active system that can detail what it would be like to buy spices in Amn and actually get them shipped to the Moonsea area. What type of profit can one make? How does magic and gates effect price? I would like to see future products that detail what an area is like. I mean what the lay of the land is like. What is the character of the peasants. What is the character of the townsfolk. What is the character of the people living in cities. What is the flavor of an area. I don't care about a power group and a few detailed NPCs of that area. I can create bad guys, good guys, and anything else I want that has states. I like direction in how an area is detailed. Little things like what the local beer is called. Is there any slang in the area. What is the imports and exports of the area? How is the local economy run? What are the trade lanes and who are the trading partners? Less about drow. Less about elves. More about dwarves and gnomes. More information on places like Sembia, the Vast, and the Moonsea, since these areas are widely used, but lacking in detail. Less uber-powerful FR magic powers like Spellfire, the Chosen of, Shadow Magic, the Magister, and all that other hooky stuff that is only usable in munchkin or power gamer campaigns. I want magic to be toned down to a more moderate type game. I like unique and new spells for the game. I like the history that goes into these spells and the spellbooks. I don't want things that will make magic extremely powerful and unbalancing. Nothing on Kara-tura or Al Quedim. That would be a poor waste of effort. I don't want anything on Halruaa, unless it was a minimal section in a source book for the Shaar, Dambrath, Lapaiiya, and all places in between. Stick to the core areas that still lack in detail or explore areas that have never been covered, like in Greenwoods web postings about Delzimmer, Eartheart, and Kholtar. Too bad that ended. These are my humble opinions...
Athenon 02-11-04, 11:52 PM	Last Year at the WotC Forgotten Realms seminar at Gen Con, Ed actually brought up how much he would like to do a book about the commerce of the Forgoten Realms. I heartily agree with all the culture details you mentioned. These are the details that make the Realms and our campaigns come alive. I hope the powers that be at WotC read this thread - you guys are coming up with cool ideas.
Shemeska the Marauder 02-12-04, 03:23 AM	Going back to the Great Wheel cosmology... But aside from that pipedream (till 4th ed rolls along and everything changes again perhaps...) I'd love to see an Old Empires Book, and an Utter East book.
Monsoon28 02-12-04, 06:31 AM	Some excellent suggestions so far mine aren't much different. 1. Region Books (Vilhon Reach, Old Empire, Land of Intrigue, Kara-Tur...) 2. More on Magic (as suggested something like the old Magister book.) 3. More on the Sea, Ships, ship combat etc... 4. More involvement from Ed and Jeff Grubb. 5. I also like a yearly Gazetteer that lets us know of anything significant in the realms (Shade expansion, Change in government, the Simbul getting married :eek: ) As well I have some interest in what is going on with that little bit of Terra Incognito South East of Kara-Tur...Is it an Australia? or something more like a India/PAskistan?? Maybe it a Dragon Lance style home of the Minotaur? YES! What I want less of... 1. Art that is just filler...I don't need an illustration on what Climb is thank-you! 2. Drow and Elves... I'll second that! 3. "Feats and classes purposefully made bland so as to appeal to non FR fans. " I'll see your 2 copper and raise you one!
Mystery Man 02-12-04, 06:47 AM	Originally posted by Ranger REG ....YES!!! :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :smirk: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!: But then again...........NO!!! :fight!: :smirk: :tiphat: :P
Wooly Rupert 02-12-04, 10:52 AM	I'd like to see certain areas updated, like the Moonsea, Serōs, and the Shining South. I'd like to see all the deities that were dropped added back in, and get back on the Great Wheel. I'd like to see more on this nation that Lamruil headed out to start. I want the Volo's Guides brought back, with the quality of the first two. And I want details on Nimbral and Lantan.
Athenon 02-12-04, 12:11 PM	Rupert, I'll give you a HUGE amen onthe Volo's Guides. I've been running two Dalelands Campaigns since 3rd edition came out. Volo's Guide to the Dales has been an invaluable resource. A Lantan book would be great.
Selgaunt 02-12-04, 01:29 PM	My first request would have to be a new version of the old(1990) Atlas of the realms(Written by Karen Wynn Fonstad). I don't know if any of you remember the Brown book, with Elminster on the cover(smoking his pipe)? That was an awesome addition to the realms. It detailed many cities(Calimport, Waterdeep, Westgate, Suzail, Zhentil Keep, Athkatla, Zazesspur, Baldur's Gate, Selgaunt, Saerloon etc.etc.) Also it had info about almost every country in the realms. What I don't want to see: new stuff about al-Quadim or Maztica or Kara-tur.I think it would be waste of time and effort!!! Not many people are interested in those regions, and anyways, there's soooo much more to learn about Faerun!!! Mr Greenwood, if you ever do read my post...PLEASE could you think about making a new version of the Atlas...it was sooo useful!!
Wooly Rupert 02-12-04, 01:48 PM	Originally posted by Selgaunt My first request would have to be a new version of the old(1990) Atlas of the realms(Written by Karen Wynn Fonstad). I don't know if any of you remember the Brown book, with Elminster on the cover(smoking his pipe)? That was an awesome addition to the realms. It detailed many cities(Calimport, Waterdeep, Westgate, Suzail, Zhentil Keep, Athkatla, Zazesspur, Baldur's Gate, Selgaunt, Saerloon etc.etc.) Also it had info about almost every country in the realms. What I don't want to see: new stuff about al-Quadim or Maztica or Kara-tur.I think it would be waste of time and effort!!! Not many people are interested in those regions, and anyways, there's soooo much more to learn about Faerun!!! Mr Greenwood, if you ever do read my post...PLEASE could you think about making a new version of the Atlas...it was sooo useful!! I remember that. It took me a while to get my hands on one. :D I have the electronic one, too. :)
druid berrymore 02-12-04, 01:54 PM	I do want: 1/ Region specific books about every living and non-living thing in the area, with maps and images illustrating that info. Nothing but that...."Believe me, we won't miss the spells, item, feats, PrC, etc. 2/ A book similar to the Forgotten Realms Atlas; just as long, but focused on one area. 75% illustrations and maps, 25% words. 3/Adventures like City of the Spider Queen 4/ Greenwood books 5/Another DnD movie(not because I want to see it, but because it would inject money and interest into DnD. Authors and designers would have more freedom, and the four things above might see the light of day). I don't want: 1/ prestige classes, feats, spells, and magic items that take up HALF THE BOOK!! AARRGHHH!!!! 2/ illustrations that have no relevance to the region or character described. 3/ Money spent on making the books look good, but not on content. 4/ Maztica, Kara-tur, Zakhara....what was that? If you can imagine Faerun without those areas, it seems very imaginative and original. Add them and it looks like an earth rip off. My Toril doesn't include them. 5/ Eberron
Selgaunt 02-12-04, 01:56 PM	My DM also has the Electronic version...but it ain't as detailed as the old brown book...if i'm not mistaken, isn't the electronic versionjust maps??? I went on Ebay, and they're selling the old atlas for about 15 to 20 US$. I'm thinking of buying one...i lost my old atlaas about 1 year after i had bought it!!
Monsoon28 02-12-04, 05:17 PM	Ahhhh yes the old Atlas of the Realms, oh how I loved it! I Picked that one up as soon as it was available along with my Atlas of Middle-Earth, as I recall they even had one for Dragon Lance but I never grabbed that one. I wish Ed could update that one :thumbsup: Anyone ever notice that the landscape has changed from then to the new FRCS maps? It seems like a lot of countries got re-shaped.
Athenon 02-12-04, 05:49 PM	That was done to allow the continent to fit on one poster map. I think it was a mistake. In my home campaign we use maps from all editions, but I use the 1E and 2E maps as the correct ones. A map product would be great. C'mon Wizards folks, give it to us!
Dargoth 02-12-04, 05:54 PM	1) Another gods book, focusing there churches (Said book would list every town that has a major church for each god) 2) Old Empires Source Book 3) Either a PnP FR Atalas or a new FR Atlas Cdom 4) A Manual of the FR Cosmology 5) A book of modules ie something like the Origional 1ed Lords of Darkness
Kuje31 02-12-04, 05:57 PM	I've said it in the past. I would greatly love a book that breaks down ceremonies by each faith and deity. Marriage, birth, death, etc. Each deity should have such rituals for thier faithful and divine casters.....
Reefy 02-12-04, 08:58 PM	Some of the ideas already mentioned are great. Lashan's idea about detailing an area and what it's people are like, how they think, general outlook etc is a great one. As is the suggestion of more small details like the flora and fauna of regions, coinage, food and drink, that sort of thing. It's these things which elevate the Realms above so many other worlds, the depth of character. More regional supplements are always going to be welcomed, my preferences are for the Western Heartlands and the Lake of Steam/Border Kingdoms areas. I also think more adventures would be a good idea, although I haven't played it, COTSQ seems to have been well received by the majority of people one here and I think there is a market for them. I would also like to see more of the sidebars, the sort that detail myths and legends, like in the FRCS. That sort of fluff goes down well with me. More local news, the calender at the back of the one of the books in the 2E box set detailing events of the past year across the world was a nice touch. Personally I have no interest in Kara-Tur, Maztica or Zakhara, there is plenty of Faerūn still to be explored. I have also got more than enough prestige classes and feats that I will probably never use so I have no real wish to see too many more. Much as I love elves, there is probably too much focus on them. Drow too, though I care less for them. Having been reading ROF recently, I would like to see some of the other races get more airtime, halflings as well as gnomes and dwarves.
Nahar 02-12-04, 10:22 PM	Oh, the joy. My (newly expanded - you folks have been thinking about this!) wish list: 1st- that idea about churches and rituals, times ten 2nd- region books yes please, and whoever said that about not really needing NPC's is probably right. The little stuff, please please please 3rd- and official what the heck happened in Faerun this year supplement would be great. some of the things i've told my PC's has been happening in the silver marches are getting a bit out there... :looloo: 4th- poster maps! I hadn't dared to dream! 5th - I forgot. City of the Spider Queen was great, if we could see more adventures like that one it would be spamtastic
Akumaisloose 02-13-04, 09:21 AM	I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FR CREATE A BOOK DEDICATED TO THE DRAGON COAST I HAVE CREATED ABOUT 16 CAMPAIGNS NOW AND SOMEHOW ALL OF THEM END UP IN DRAGON COAST AND I'M LEFT OUT ON A LIMB CUZ WOTC HASN'T TAKEN THE TIME TO CREATE A BOOK ON THE PLACE WITH ONE OF THE BIGGEST THIEVES GUILDS KNOWN TO MAN. I DON'T KNOW HOW EVERYONE ELSE DOES IT BUT IF YOU COULD TELL ME I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT. AND SORRY ABOUT THE ALL CAPS BUT MY SHIFT KEY IS STUCK AND I'M NOT ALLOWED TO FIX IT CUZ ITS A SCHOOL KEYBOARD
Deitus 02-13-04, 11:08 AM	Hey there, Just going to jump in. 1) More information(flavor) on specific regions. I want details on everything from the towns and villages, to the people, to the religions in the area and how the people worship here. I want more info on the religions, that uis a must. 2) a yearly book, updating the world and regions, an Almanac. gives events for the year, interesting people. little tidbis about out of the way places. 3)Maps, big poster maps, little handout maps, maps about the country side, maps about the town. 4) a return to boxed sets containing one or two books, maps and other goodies. I don't want anymore feats, prestige classes or races, a few, well ok, but I don't want to see ten pages filled with the stuff. The books are starting to reminid me of books from another system, that were filled with skills, races, classes and weapons and no info. Right now that's about it Deitus
Herr Doktor 02-13-04, 01:47 PM	I'm assuming some things about Chapter 9: Campaign Journal in the FR: Player's Guide when I write this... It would appear that the timeline update is going to involve the larger RSE (Realms Shaking Events) rather than what was typically of older sources where there was a nice month by month breakdown of the most recent year or years. Personally my group never gets close to the conflicts in the novel series. Our PCs have not been battling the Shadovar in the City of Shade, battling Princes and huge dracoliches of the Anauroch. Neither are they involved in the silence of the drow elves Spider Queen. I'd like to see them step away from these epic struggles and focus on the smaller scale events that may not be important to those far beyond a certain community in the Western Heartlands, et cetera. I am hoping that Recent Events isn't only a heading for the sections that describe the Return of the Archwizards and War of the Spider Queen. I hope that it is more along the lines of what I posted above. The Plots and Rumors section looks promising, anyway. I want a thousand tons of FLUFFY DETAIL in my Realms products. One of the things I have a particular interest in is foods and beverages of the Realms. I love Ed's writeups that include taverns and inns and what exactly they serve. Aurora's Catalog was also a magnificent example.
Rynthief 02-13-04, 03:21 PM	MORE FLUFF, LESS CRUNCH I'd love to see a Realms History Book. RoF was great for fleshing out the different little tweaks of each race, diversifying the elves farther than just the ability scores, for instance. The real gem, however, were the Racial histories. What a picture they painted of the realms, and why the races act the way they do! I love the long-standing plotlines in D&D, the Githzerai/Githyanki/Illithids, Kiaransalee/Orcus, Dark Seldarine/Seldarine. FR has these plots too. I'd love to see more on the Harper/Zhent conflict, or trade wars on the Sword Coast, or any of the other long standing plots and conflicts that never seen to make it into any kind of detail in the sourcebooks. I'm "new" to FR as of 3E, so I'd love to see a detailed sourcebook on the Dales/Moonsea/Cormyr/Sembia area. Also the Western Heartlands, Amn, the High Forest, and the Dragon Coast have room for lots and lots of Fluff Politics, Politics, Politics! I'd love to have a sample holiday book, detailing a couple holidays for the more active deities, or a realms calandar with the major holidays and religious observences included. Detailed maps of each political area, use the Silver Marches map as a reference. I like all the prestige classes and regional feats and such, but use them to highlight the fluff. They should be there to help bring the detail and character of a region/ethnic group/religion/race into game mechanics, not the other way around. 70% Fluff with 30% Crunch is optimal. Stay away from republications and needless PrC's, Feats, and Spells. If all a new spell really does is an already maximized fireball with the appropriate level adjusted, all you need to say is that the culture has come up with a 6th level spell similar to a maximized fireball. One sentance instead of an 1/8 of a page. Fill the used space with fluff. I like what the people at WotC are doing so far, but the feats, races, and spells are getting out of hand. The reprint books (i.e. Complete Warrior, Players Guide to the Realms, etc) are great for the game balance they add and the updates that are needed, but are not worth the price of a hard cover. that was about 5 1/2 cents, hope it helps... -Ryn
danefprd 02-13-04, 06:54 PM	Ide like a prequel to the icewind dake trilogy, you know, drizzt growing up, bruenor growing up, etc.
Herr Doktor 02-13-04, 07:00 PM	Originally posted by danefprd Ide like a prequel to the icewind dake trilogy, you know, drizzt growing up, bruenor growing up, etc. They all ready exist... At least, if Drizzt is your interest. Homeland, Exile, and Sojourn I believe are the three books on the Dark Elf Trilogy.
bshugg 02-13-04, 10:28 PM	I AM SICK TO DEATH WITH RULES! No more prestige classes, no more feats, no more rules! I want: Adventures! Things like the Daggerlands series, or the city of the spider queen. More books with maps, layouts of castles, layouts of famous taverns, layouts of important ruins, temples, etc Another Undermountain box set. Its time for one. Have it flesh out more of the first 3 levels (level 2 and 3 specifically) and some new sublevels.
Athenon 02-13-04, 11:57 PM	You guys have come up with great suggestions that I would jump at the chance to buy. Deitus mentioned poster maps and boxed sets. The WotC folks always say that these things are very costly. I'm curious how much you'd be willing to pay for those sorts of products? $50? $75? Would that be too much? Just wondering... Almost everyone that has posted has said that they want more fluff and less crunch. I'm curious if any of you have avoided the newer products (like Unapproachable East, Underdark or Races of Faerun) because of the high Crunch to Fluff ratio.If you haven't avoided it do you find that you use the crunchy parts? I personally have bought every 3E Realms product. I think that for what they are, they are excellent. The best ones to me (FRCS, Silver Marches and Lords of Darkness) have a good bit of fluffy background material. I do think that the popularity of the Realms is built on the tradition of background material in the superb 1E and 2E products. I also feel that ignoring this to make a quick buck (as the knuckle-draggers will buy books full of crunch) is really blemishing the standard of excellence of the Realms. More Coppers!
Straploknight 02-14-04, 12:07 AM	Bah! I want a Zakhara, Kara-Tur, Maztica source book... the realms ain't no demiplane of dread with misty borders that trail off into mordenkainen's closet as a means of explaining away Thesk, the tuigan, and a few other realms bits and pieces interwoven with these far off places. Besides they are now intergal to the realms. I like the fluff and crunch, but in a 70/30 format would be nice. Hmmm...what else Y'know what I really want is for FR to be spun off into its own D20 product line (fat chance I know) but I can always dream about it.
Straploknight 02-14-04, 12:09 AM	Originally posted by Athenon as the knuckle-draggers will buy books full of crunch) You aren't implying that fluff bunnies are inherently more intelligent than crunch monsters are you :smirk:
Athenon 02-14-04, 12:19 AM	Straploknight, No not necessarily. I do think there are a lot more "crunch monsters" that are either A) power-gamers looking for powerful Prestige Classes/magic items/races or B) really young gamers just interested in things that grab their eyes (I used to be one too) than there are in the "Fluff Bunny" camp. Just my opinion.
By_Clangeddins_beard 02-14-04, 10:25 AM	As I read all of the posting I kept thinking, why aren't some of these people working for Wotc? There are so many well thought out ideas! My wish list goes like this: A. Extremely detailed maps. Not just well drawn maps that don't look like cartoons, but maps with topographical details and magnified views of the major cities. Kinda of like real maps. B. Detailed descriptions of all the major and minor pantheons. Lists of spells that are granted to priests of each individual power only(i.e. Special nature spells for the followers of silvanos, Healing spells for eldathans only) C. More details about everday life, equipment, and weather. Things I don't want to see: A. Poorly drawn art B. Vague generalities
Wardancer 02-14-04, 10:56 AM	I would like to see: (1) A book dealing with classes in the Forgotten Realms. It would cover Barbarian tribes in depth, Paladin orders (and their multiclassing paths..like in the web enhancement for Faiths and Pantheons), Monk orders, etc. (2) A couple of adventures of the City of the Spider Queen magnitude but begins at low levels. (3) Maps! (4) I like the trade idea and everday life idea. (5) More regional sourcebooks. (6) I like the Whats Happening in the Realms idea too. Kind of a gazetteer, to keep DM's up to snuff of current events. Don't want: (1) Bad art...stick with Wayne Reynolds, or Lockwood...maybe even Justin Sweet (2) Prestige classes and feats. I do like magic items and spells, but keep the prestige classes and feats to a minimum unless there is a plan to put all the prestige classes and feats ever designed in one book. (3) I'll have to go with drow and elves also. Though I like both, they seem to find their way into almost any and everything. (4) Along with the drow, I'll have to say the Underdark. Probably one of the most overused 'regions' around. You can alost bet if there is something evil it comes from the underdark.
Wooly Rupert 02-14-04, 01:06 PM	Originally posted by By_Clangeddins_beard B. Detailed descriptions of all the major and minor pantheons. Lists of spells that are granted to priests of each individual power only(i.e. Special nature spells for the followers of silvanos, Healing spells for eldathans only) This already exists, but for 2nd edition: Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Those three books are some of the best FR supplements ever, and as far as I'm concerned, those are the only resources needed for deities. Faiths & Pantheons is naught but a pale imitation of those three books.
Reefy 02-14-04, 01:18 PM	Originally posted by Athenon Almost everyone that has posted has said that they want more fluff and less crunch. I'm curious if any of you have avoided the newer products (like Unapproachable East, Underdark or Races of Faerun) because of the high Crunch to Fluff ratio.If you haven't avoided it do you find that you use the crunchy parts? I think the FRCS is excellent, along with Silver Marches, as that's where my campaign is currently set. I'm also impressed with Lords of Darkness and Races of Faerūn. I wasn't so keen on Magic of Faerūn, I've not used a great deal from it. I have not gone for Unappraochable East mainly because I doubt I will be playing a campaign in that area any time in the near future, the same goes for Underdark I suppose, though I've no had a chance to look at it, I may be persuaded. I also have a limited budget so can't afford to get everything. I do think the balance of things in the FRCS is good though, it's a fantastic source book in my opinion.
druid berrymore 02-14-04, 02:30 PM	With almost everyone saying they want less prestige classes and feats, I'm curious. Why do they put that stuff in there? Who are they appealing to? Personally I've stopped buying the 3rd edition books because of it. I'm now working on my 1e2e FR collection until they put out a book with some serious content. PS: I just bought the two remaining Volo's guides in my collection yesterday. Damn, those are good books! My #1 request is for more Greenwood written Volo's Guides. Maybe Volo's Guide to Shadowdale, or Volo's Guide to Silverymoon. One can dream.
Athenon 02-14-04, 02:38 PM	Druid, Exactly the question I've been asking! Especially when old Ryan Dancey (the guy who transitioned TSR to WotC and later set up the D20 license) swore up and down that TSR's big problem was not listening to its customers. Then it went the way of the dinosaur. I hope that WotC hasn't forgoten what allowed them to save D&D in the first place. I would LOVE a yearly Realms mega module. Can you imagine how cool it would be to have a starting-level module that set the players in motion in an area of the Dales or North? Maybe something akin to the classic Temple of Elemental Evil... Wonderful. A shortened version of this can be seen in the Deadsnows right-up in the Silver Marches. It would be nice!
Wooly Rupert 02-14-04, 02:46 PM	Originally posted by druid berrymore With almost everyone saying they want less prestige classes and feats, I'm curious. Why do they put that stuff in there? Who are they appealing to? Personally I've stopped buying the 3rd edition books because of it. I'm now working on my 1e2e FR collection until they put out a book with some serious content. PS: I just bought the two remaining Volo's guides in my collection yesterday. Damn, those are good books! My #1 request is for more Greenwood written Volo's Guides. Maybe Volo's Guide to Shadowdale, or Volo's Guide to Silverymoon. One can dream. The Volo's Guides were excellent, especially the earlier ones... I felt the quality kinda dropped off as they went on, with the exception of Volo's Guide to All Things Magical As for the first part of your question... Someone from WotC once popped up on here and said that they focus on the crunch and such because that is what sells. I've a hard time believing that, considering just how many people are begging for more fluff, but there it is. 'Twas also said (I don't recall who it was, or what thread), that they did not have any intentions of listening to the fans on the website content, either. Their decisions on what stayed and went were based solely on how many hits each feature got. It does point to a disturbing trend...
Razz 02-14-04, 02:54 PM	What do I wanna see in the Realms? I wanna see 3.5 material on: The Hordelands Kara-Tur Maztica Zhakara Unknown Lands One book for each one, possibly every 6 months. That's how it should be done. Screw other FR material, just bring out those 5 first then worry about other FR material. :D
azildurn 02-14-04, 07:25 PM	As I read all of the posting I kept thinking, why aren't some of these people working for Wotc? There are so many well thought out ideas! Crappy pay and iron-fisted creative control excercised by WotC and Hasbro from the author's side of things. Also the company isn't looking to move in the direction that everyone here is proposing so even getting them to hire you would be tough. :) I enjoy writing d20 stuff and as a result I, along with a handful of friends, started my own d20 online project (www.dalhazrin.com (http://www.dalhazrin.com) ) to produce a very fluff heavy campaign setting. The problem is that it suffers from the same problems as any amateur project (slow production, restricted access to art, etc.) due to the fact that we have limited time to devote to it. I believe that what's been produced is of high content quality (we're still working on some produciton quality issues) but I could never compete with the big boys due to lack of resources. That said, I accept all the shortcomings of an amateur project because I can't imagine having to write under the restrictions placed on authors at WotC or various other companies and I imagine that many fluff happy authors feel the same as I do. I wish I could make a decent living doing it because it's a lot more fun than software design and development (or at least a little more fun) but alas until it pays alot more I'll be an software engineer during the week. As far as WotC and the FR, it's a bit of a catch-22 because if you write for the Realms you want them to do what's in the best tradtions of the Realms but you can't really trust them with your work. I feel sorry for Greenwood given the way in which WotC has butchered the Realms but I'm happy he got some money out of his work nonetheless and in the end it doesn't affect his use or enjoyment of the Realms in any home games rare though they may be these days.
azildurn 02-14-04, 07:32 PM	I couldn't agree more with what everyone has asked for. The fluff is definitely lacking and the crunch is becoming overwhelming and useless. Sadly WotC/Hasbro apparantly isn't interested in listening to the consumer. Hopefully it will all change sometime soon, but in the meantime I will do my best to vote with my dollars (which is difficult for me because I like to own just about everything) and use my old stuff when I play with FR as my setting.
Herr Doktor 02-14-04, 07:46 PM	That's definetly a problem with myself... I want to stay on top of all things Realms, so I am likely to purchase just about anything that comes out that is Realms related (better what they put out than nothing at all?). I don't think I can bring myself to boycott Wizards of the Coast products, though I am growing steadly more unhappy with it due to lack of fluff. I may eventually give up on it, but I don't expect to anytime soon.
Ranger REG 02-15-04, 01:32 AM	Originally posted by Athenon Druid, Exactly the question I've been asking! Especially when old Ryan Dancey (the guy who transitioned TSR to WotC and later set up the D20 license) swore up and down that TSR's big problem was not listening to its customers. Then it went the way of the dinosaur. I hope that WotC hasn't forgoten what allowed them to save D&D in the first place. First off, Ryan Dancey no longer worked there. As for druid berrymore's question, you all can say you want less crunch, but we posters of this messageboard are just a vocal minority. The majority want crunch, or at least a balance of crunch and fluff. I would LOVE a yearly Realms mega module. Can you imagine how cool it would be to have a starting-level module that set the players in motion in an area of the Dales or North? Maybe something akin to the classic Temple of Elemental Evil... Wonderful. A shortened version of this can be seen in the Deadsnows right-up in the Silver Marches. It would be nice! Personally, I'd rather you all support Dungeon magazine and request them to put more FR adventures. (I say that with disdain, purely because I'm a Polyhedron reader.) A mega-module or adventure supplement (priced at $20) may not please ALL FR fans, just the vocal minority.
WizO_BigSister 02-15-04, 02:29 AM	Originally posted by azildurn Crappy pay and iron-fisted creative control excercised by WotC and Hasbro from the author's side of things. Also the company isn't looking to move in the direction that everyone here is proposing so even getting them to hire you would be tough. :) If you are aware of an author publically making these complaints about WotC and/or Hasbro please tell us where you found or heard this. If it was your personal experience please make that clear, and please give us some details. If this is purely a guess on your part and not based on any actual facts then you should say so :) You are allowed to complain and say negative things about these companies, but you really shouldn't make unsupported negative claims cos that's libel ;) I'm not asking you to give your sources because I am a heavy handed cow ... it really helps people to have a much better debate/discussion if we know where you got your ideas from :)
Athenon 02-15-04, 09:16 AM	Big Sis, I can't speak for Azildurn, but I'll tell you what I think he means: I would reference two things off the top of my head: 1) The Gen Con seminars I've been to for the Realms in the last few years usually deteriorate into: "What do you want in the Realms?" "Oh, well, the powers that be tell us we can't do that." or 2) I would reference a post to the Forgotten Realms list from July of 2002 by Sean Reynolds: http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0207B&L=realms-l&P=R7508 At any rate, thanks for keeping the board together, Big Sis. You do a good job. I think threads like this are good because they give a good snapshot of what the fans want (not all the fans, but still worth knowing). Get fired up WotC people! This is something we (the gamers) do for fun and because we love it. Let's hear some enthusiasm :-)
azildurn 02-15-04, 11:24 AM	If you are aware of an author publically making these complaints about WotC and/or Hasbro please tell us...<clip> Yep, I've heard moaning and whining from your authors in the same places that Athenon mentions above. Also, I've heard Greenwood talk about how he wouldn't do this or that but he doesn't own it anymore and why he still plays in the time of the Grey Box or before, etc. etc. FR is fairly paid for and owned by WotC but still just a legal creative control snatch in the end. Listening to the WotC folks (Rich Baker and company) tell the audience why everything that was asked for is "impossible" because it breaks format ($35 hardbacks) at GenCon 2003...again control. Reading Sean's post that Athenon linked to...control. Seeing a horde of good authors flee the company to start or work for other d20 companies...control. Seeing WotC change the d20 license to include a decency clause...control. Reading, accounts of the fight over the d20 changes posted by former WotC employees from the d20 area...control. Discussing the d20 changes with your staff and hearing (well reading them actually it was email) them basically say "if you don't like it don't work with us"...control. And so on and so forth. WotC has a complete legal right to do everything they do but it's still a control freak mentality and they still don't listen to the masses they simply force feed them. Fortunately the masses (myself included) like gaming enough that they buy up anything semi-decent. As for crappy pay...it's a low paying industry with a small niche market base. By definition it results in crappy pay at the current margin of the products if you define crappy as significantly less than one can make doing something else for which they already have the skills. but you really shouldn't make unsupported negative claims cos that's libel Actually it's not...look up the legal definitions of libel and defamatory, it has nothing to do with "unsupported" and not sharing sources. The are pretty narrow definitions that we've expanded to ridiculous widths to the point that it begins to infringe upon free speach. Saying a company has "crappy pay" and takes "creative control" doesn't come anywhere close to even our expanded definition, especially given that they are true. Even if the ultimate truth of the wording I used is up for debate it's a subjective statement that has a basis in the available facts so good luck proving it libel. I'm not asking you to give your sources because I am a heavy handed cow ... it really helps people to have a much better debate/discussion if we know where you got your ideas from Now my response to this might fall under libel so I'll keep it to myself. Just to be clear I don't think this post has added anything to the debate other than a new dislike for the moderators by me. Oh and another excellent example of WotC control issues. Good condescending paragraph though :)
Athenon 02-15-04, 12:24 PM	Well, good points from both sides. I, for one, do think that we're having a good discussion here. Let me redirect a little bit, though. One of the things has been pointed out in the past was that these 3E products all include high crunch factors because that is what sells best. Maybe that was true at the very dawn of 3E, but I doubt that's still true as evidenced in the preceding posts. I'm curious: 1) How many of you that have and are posting are DMs? 2) How many 3E FR books have you bought, but ALSO how many 3E FR books have players in your game bought because you choose to run games in this setting? 3) What has been your favorite FR product from 3E and why? 4) What is your favorite FR product from any edition and why?
Capn Charlie 02-15-04, 12:24 PM	"We must dissent." -Sister Miriam Godwinson
azildurn 02-15-04, 01:21 PM	1) How many of you that have and are posting are DMs? I am or have been and will be again soon. I'm currently in the middle of forming my next gaming group having been idle for the last few years after moving. 2) How many 3E FR books have you bought, but ALSO how many 3E FR books have players in your game bought because you choose to run games in this setting?Unless I missed something everything except Unaproachable East but at least 80% of what's been put out even if I have missed some. 3) What has been your favorite FR product from 3E and why?Silver Marches...mainly because I like the area and it did have some decent fluff. 4) What is your favorite FR product from any edition and why? The Gray Box and The Savage Frontier - Why? Excellent quality products to be sure but to be honest most of it is nostalgia. Each was integral to my first long standing D&D campaign.
druid berrymore 02-15-04, 01:35 PM	Here's an analogy: Back in the early 90's animation was at the height of it's popularity. Disney had released two good movies, the Lion King and Aladdin. They were quite good. Then....the "bean counters" decided that they knew what made a good animated movie(x+y+z=good movie). So they said to the creative department, "this new movie had better have (x)", and they said to the sound department, "this movie better have (y)", and so on. Soon they were pumping out the "good movies", with such forgetable "classics" as Pocahontas, Hercules, and Hunchback. The movies had (x), they had (y), and they deffinately had (z). Why weren't they selling? If you take control away from the creative people and give it to the $ people, which will happen when a company makes $, the product will suffer. Unfortunately, I think the only answer is that DnD must fail, the "bean counters" have to be exposed, and creative control must be given back to the creative people. Am I pessimistic, or what?
azildurn 02-15-04, 01:43 PM	Good animation analogy. Anytime you apply mass production manufacturing principals to a creative endeaver you've got trouble in the long run. I think the only answer is that DnD must fail Everything is not quite that bleak :). There are other alternatives as well. 1. Sales fall Hasbro sells off D&D or WotC and the new company goes back to D&D's roots. 2. Sales fall Hasbro brings in new management who have a better feel for the market 3. A third party with lots of resources produces a better product and everyone moves to that. (Though this may count as D&D falling) 4. Someone makes an takeover bid and Hasbro gets greedy and sells for the short term profits. I'm sure there are another hundred scenarios as well. We'll just have to wait and see.
Capn Charlie 02-15-04, 02:00 PM	Originally posted by azildurn 4. Someone makes an takeover bid and Hasbro gets greedy and sells for the short term profits. Imagine every dnd fan getting together and amassing resources to buy the DnD game, break it into shares, and form a co-op style game company. Give FR back to Ed, Let Gary take over Greyhawk, imagine it...
Monsoon28 02-15-04, 02:15 PM	I'll Just wait for one of you to win the powerball lottery and buy it from Hasbro then! :D 4. Someone makes an takeover bid and Hasbro gets greedy and sells for the short term profits. Isn't this how Hasbro got them in the first place? :smirk:
Wooly Rupert 02-15-04, 02:25 PM	Originally posted by Athenon 1) How many of you that have and are posting are DMs? Unfortunately, I am not able to actively game right now. I'm also unemployed, so I've not purchased all the 3E stuff I want. But, not only do I have all of the 3E FR stuff, I've also got most of the 2E and 1E FR stuff, too. I know there's people that have more complete collections than I, but not many. Originally posted by Athenon 2) How many 3E FR books have you bought, but ALSO how many 3E FR books have players in your game bought because you choose to run games in this setting? Again, I have all of the 3E FR items. Were I able to DM right now, the first adventures would take place in Waterdeep... The Realms is my fave setting that TSR/WotC has done. Originally posted by Athenon 3) What has been your favorite FR product from 3E and why? Races of Faerūn -- It took some little blurbs and numbers and gave each race/region a distinct flavor. They took a little crunch, and expanded it with a lot of fluff. Reading thru the description of water genasi, for example, gave me a really nifty idea for an NPC. Originally posted by Athenon 4) What is your favorite FR product from any edition and why? I have two groups of favorite products: The Volo's Guides and the godbooks (Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities.) The Volo's Guides, particularly the earlier ones, gave areas of the Realms a flavor that only a novel could beat. They had just enough crunch to give the DM something to work with if he/she needed it, but the rest of it was pure fluff. And I think that fluff was a better resource than any crunch, because it's easier to wing some stats than it is to create interesting inns like The Inn of the Drigging Dagger, The Blushing Mermaid, or The Moonstone Mask. And it wasn't just inns, it was taverns, shops, local places of interest, etc. Volo's Guide to Waterdeep is why I love that city. When I read that, Waterdeep went from being a map and a setting for a novel and some comics to a city I could live in and happily explore for days on end. It made the city come alive for me. As for the godbooks... I have long had an aversion to clerics. I just never could bring myself to play a character who was just a regular cleric and nothing else -- the closest I came was a dwarven fighter/cleric. The godbooks made each religion interesting and distinct, again adding some much needed flavor. Faiths & Avatars got me to play my first human cleric, a specialty priest of Lathander. It gave enough fluff to change a cleric from a healing machine into another interesting character. Plus, there was enough stuff in there to be an invaluable aid to DMs. So, you want the PC's god to drop him a sign, but not an avatar? Look at the manifestations of that deity. Want to focus on the conflict between different faiths? Look at who the deity's enemies are. Want the cleric to have to do something in time for a religious holiday? Look under Holy Days and find an appropriate one. Need some extra firepower to accomplish the church's mission, or maybe just some NPCs of the same faith? Look at Affiliated Orders. Faiths & Avatars is far better than Faiths & Pantheons ever thought about being.
azildurn 02-15-04, 02:34 PM	Originally posted by Monsoon28 I'll Just wait for one of you to win the powerball lottery and buy it from Hasbro then! :D I wonder if it would be a problem if I moved corporate headquarters to Tahiti. :) Isn't this how Hasbro got them in the first place? :smirk: [/B] Pretty much but that's pretty much how all companies get purchased or merged.
The_Declaration 02-15-04, 03:18 PM	Originally posted by Athenon 1) How many of you that have and are posting are DMs? 2) How many 3E FR books have you bought, but ALSO how many 3E FR books have players in your game bought because you choose to run games in this setting? 3) What has been your favorite FR product from 3E and why? 4) What is your favorite FR product from any edition and why? 1/ I am a DM. Playing also many other RPGs. 2/ 3 (setting, races, lords), but i'm gonna buy others soon (East, marches and player's guide) 3/ So far i think it's Races of Faerun, really interesting, and gets you to know and understand the Realms in a totally different and deeper way. it's a must. 4/ proabably Empires of the Sands cause i like Calimshan a lot, as geographical sourcebooks in general.
Herr Doktor 02-16-04, 12:23 AM	1) How many of you that have and are posting are DMs? I DM a campaign (and have DMed many campaigns) in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. I regularly DM every Sunday (though I am hoping to eventually get a chance to try the other side of the screen), and other days when it is possible. 2) How many 3E FR books have you bought, but ALSO how many 3E FR books have players in your game bought because you choose to run games in this setting? I myself have purchased the FRCS, Faiths and Pantheons, Lords of Darkness, Silver Marches, Unapproachable East, Underdark, and the Forgotten Realms DM screen + Random Encounter packet. I also have in my possession Races of Faerūn, Monsters of of Faerūn, and Magic of of Faerūn. They were purchased by a player who doesn't DM and has decided that to leave them here indefinetly until he moves to Hawaii in a few years to attend college there. 3) What has been your favorite FR product from 3E and why? My favorite 3rd edition or 3.5 edition Forgotten Realms products are probably the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Lords of Darkness, and Silver Marches. The Campaign Setting is loaded with useful stuff, I liked it intially because it was providing Realms flavored spells, feats, et cetera, along with the nice ball of FLUFF, but lately the CRUNCH has become an unrelenting tidal wave. The Plots and Rumors bits that were attached to each region were neat too. Lords of Darkness broke down some of the major villains and really showed what they were about. Goals, activities, et cetera. It was a great book and provided easy to reference stats for typical agents of many of the power groups discussed as well. I tend to not use this book quite as much as I used to, since the PCs are not currently toe to toe with any of the organizations within. The Silver Marches was great... The flora and fauna section was excellent! The descriptive text about regions and the taverns and inns listings for Silverymoon and such were really great and reminded of some of my old favorites (Volo's Guides!). 4) What is your favorite FR product from any edition and why? The Volo's Guides series, though it is hard to say which one specifically. The FR Adventures book was pretty good for the same reason... Taverns, inns, temples, imporant mages, sites of note, local foods and house specials. These details and more are what bring the Realms to life, and they are why I like playing in the Realms at all. I am a fan of Crunch, but the amount that keeps coming my way is a bit overwhelming, and fluff will always be more important to me. I suppose I actually feel that crunch shouldn't be all the necessary in future products... The core rules should cover all that is needed in that department (though I wouldn't mind seeing speciality priest Prestige Classes for all the deities in the various FR "godbooks").
Faraer 02-16-04, 09:48 AM	'Crunchy bits' are of two kinds: new spells and magic items (and monsters) which are real things in the Realms with rules to help use them in the game; and feats and prestige classes which in the main are extra rules to represent (in a slightly different way) things the existing rules already cover. The former have been part of the published Realms since Dragon #30, the latter are timewasting dross. ___________________________ Here's the "Level Adjustments Excerpt" (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2) from the Player's Guide to Faerūn. It's about a page of the book. Does it stir the blood or make the heart pine for a lost world that never was? Does it make you want to buy the book, to play in the Realms if you're not doing so yet? Will it help you have memorable play sessions? Does it have anything to do with the Realms? Will it be of any use the next time there's a rules revision? Gubble gubble.
kgiggles 02-16-04, 06:06 PM	Originally posted by The_Declaration I don't really know what to add cause I agree almost 100% with what has just been said: I want: 1/ Geographical sourcebooks (Calimshan, Cormyr, Moonshae, Kara-tu,...) 2/ "atmosphere" material, like NPCs (but words, not figures!), stories, legends, short novels,... 3/ maps, i'd LOVE to have a poster of the Realms, yea really 4/ Deepening of magic: might be nice to go beyond lists of spells and items. I love the book of magic, but i'm still hungry: :D 5/ better web material (downloadable maps, might be really useful for gaming...) I don't want: 1/ tons of prestige classes 2/ tons of feats 3/ kitsch illustrations 4/ tons of spells 5/ shitt_y campaigns, like kill the lich, get the gold, then get out the dungeon. Just like TSR did in the second edition. I miss those days so much. I`m not ripping on WoTC cause their material is nice too, it just lacks the detail and atmosphere. It would be nice to get away from all the numbers and get back to the detailed background that I miss seeing. I would highly reccomend these books to anyone who can locate them, they aren`t 3.x but they can be adapted with a little work, but the info in the books is invauable. Even if you don`t play in the Realms you can always get some great ideas.
The_Declaration 02-16-04, 06:12 PM	I agree, most of TSR geographical sourcebooks are still usuable. Just need to convert NPCs when you use some, and to take into account the recent events that happened in the area. Empires of Sand is totally http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/navigator/lhdevil.gif
WizO_BigSister 02-17-04, 08:09 AM	I want loads of background with histories, legends, description of cultures etc ... just like I found in Races of Faerun. Personally I am not so much a fan of numbers like stats, prestige classes etc but I do want to see loads of this material as well. Why ... because D&D is a game that can be played in a huge range of styles, and I like to see material being produced that caters for this wide range. To me thats one of the best aspects of the Realms ... it lets you play your game, and even of you play a ready made adventure no two games are the same :D
mhacdebhandia 02-17-04, 08:59 AM	I actually strongly favour the current split between fluff and crunch in the Forgotten Realms releases. The reason for this is twofold: 1) According to available information, what really makes the wide range of Forgotten Realms products economically viable is their appeal outside the committed core. Consider the number of people posting in this forum who have been playing Forgotten Realms campaigns since First or Second Edition - the reason that so many of you want more fluff is because you have a great deal invested in the campaign world as a world. Those who don't share your commitment, however, may not necessarily need or want the level of fluffy background detail, political and economic development, and cultural information that you guys and gals do; not only do many DMs, even those who run Forgotten Realms campaigns, like to fill in many of these blanks themselves, but we also must remember it's a fact that many people who buy Forgotten Realms products are interested in mining for ideas. That doesn't mean that all they want are prestige classes, magic items, spells, and monsters, necessarily; quite a lot of the fluff in Forgotten Realms products can be extracted from the setting wholesale or at least adapted to homebrewed campaigns. The fact is, though, that the more deeply-tied-into-the-world you make the fluffy and the crunchy bits, the harder it is to steal or adapt that material to a non-Forgotten Realms game - and that makes Forgotten Realms products much less attractive to these players and DMs, which hurts sales. 2) I really love prestige classes, myself.
druid berrymore 02-17-04, 11:02 AM	Something that hasn't been done very much is 3rd person view drawings or paintings of locations. In the city systems box there is a drawing of Waterdeep like that. I'd like to see more of those. I have the hardest time imagining these places just from a map, because of factors like elevation and such. here is a link to that waterdeep image: http://perso.club-internet.fr/kazer/web1/WATERDEEP.JPG
Straploknight 02-17-04, 08:01 PM	Originally posted by mhacdebhandia I1) According to available information, what really makes the wide range of Forgotten Realms products economically viable is their appeal outside the committed core. Ahhhh...censor this guy! He's put a torpedo right down the throat of a Kara-tur regional sourcebook. :eek: ;) Well anyways I must begrudginly concur with your observations. Still though remember powers that be, When it comes time to do OA 3.5, rip out 5 rings stuff and do an update on KT.
Poiniard 02-17-04, 08:33 PM	five things you would like to see/buy for the Realms A “Realms Of” anthology consisting entirely of stories about low/mid-level adventuring parties- past and present, famous and unknown. A monthly article containing “rumors” heard around the Realms. Some more explanation about the whole Harpers/Moonstars schism. A “caravan builders guide” with all the travel times, prices for guards and goods and gear. Some interesting places and encounters to toss in along the way, some important merchants and trading costers, maybe even details of some cities along the most common routes (Iriabor, etc.). New stuff (lairs, legends, histories) about dragons currently in the Realms.
Nahar 02-17-04, 09:31 PM	Man, I don't read a forum for a few days and look what happens :D . Back to the subject. I'm a DM and a player, I've got around 80% of the FR products and a good dose of DnD and d20 products, and I'd have to say I couldn't survive without the 2nd ed deity books and the Silver Marches. And I'd like to put in a vote for more writing by Shaun and art by WAR. And Declaration: I LOVE that smilie!!!!
azildurn 02-18-04, 11:09 AM	1) According to available information, what really makes the wide range of Forgotten Realms products economically viable is their appeal outside the committed core. Consider the number of people posting in this forum who have been playing Forgotten Realms campaigns since First or Second Edition - the reason that so many of you want more fluff is because you have a great deal invested in the campaign world as a world. Not exactly. That's what makes the realm more profitable in the short term, not ecconmically viable. This would be the short term management approach I was posting about earlier. This is what kills creativity and disperses the "core" eventually. The realms is a "world" product and it's not being managed as one in favor of short term profits. A more long term apporach would be to manage it as a world product provide a much higher fluff to crunch ratio and rather than trying to cajole people into buying FR products for exclusive crunch material provide a serious support system of crunch product, modules (if WotC ever makes another one), etc. to bring people into the core. Then you sell a long term investment in the FR as a world and you can sell more product for longer. The current approach will simply lead to there being no Realms core left at some point or WotC giving up on selling any settings. Since this is a realms board I used the realms as an example but this applies to all settings. They are fundamentally different from a rules product and should be managed and marketed differently. A short-term software upgrade approach doesn't work with a setting quite the way it worked with 3.$ Even if 3.$ alienated everyone you still have to upgrade if you want to use any of the new products out of the box. With a world product you actually have to produce to drive sales you can't rely on compatibility issues to push mediocre creative content. The alienation factor will overcome the compatibility issue at a much lower threshold than with a rules product.
Mumm-Ra 02-18-04, 11:54 AM	I want to see: More adventures/campaigns like CotSQ-it is the best adventure i've ever read. congrats, mr Wyatt!! Good artwork relating to important topics (no picture of a climbing character or similar stuff, as mentioned previously). I loved the cover art in CotSQ. more magic...always good. More info on who uses circle magic apart from red wizards and hathrans for example. More racial magic-drow magic and magic items, undead magic and magic items...etc. I don't want to see: source material for far away lands like Kara tur, Zakhara, and Maztica-boooring! random feats (though I like race-specific feats like axeshield and long reach for grimlocks and gnolls respectively.)
azildurn 02-19-04, 10:14 AM	Something I would suggest for all of you Realms fans out there. If you get the chance go to GenCon and go to the WotC FR seminar and voice your unhappiness and desires for various products. I'm not sure if they read these boards with any serious level of interest or not but if every fan they meet in a variety of forums is expressing an interest in a given product type then it's up to them then to intentionally decide not to give it to the folks. Not that they won't do that, but at least it's not our fault for not asking for what we want.
dragonheart 02-19-04, 10:35 AM	What would I like to see? the list is long and most of it has been well covered already so lete me add a few things. 1. some rules for experience at high level that make working behind the scenes possible - how do Elminster and khelbin and Zsass keep slowly climbing in levels they sure aren't out there raiding dragon lairs and such. 2. if they aren't going to be doing new adventures how about farming out some of the old adventures for updating and reissueing the results those old 1e and 2e modules were great no reason they can't be reused with only a minor (ie cheap) makeover. 3. CDs with the books - its all digital text anyway put it on a CD and let me load it onto the 'puter for fast access. As a Dm I could use these things and as a player of an epic character I could sure use #1.
azildurn 02-20-04, 03:17 PM	Since we're on the topic...if any of you guys could pick a single product that would make you more enthused about the Realms and gaming products in general what would it be? A geographical suplement? An economics accessory? What's that one product that you'd pay any amount to own if only WotC (or whomever) would produce it?
Straploknight 02-20-04, 03:44 PM	Originally posted by Mumm-Ra source material for far away lands like Kara tur, Zakhara, and Maztica-boooring! Bah, go hang with your thunderkitty buddies. I for one would like a regional sourcebook dealing with the far away lands. Again, though they were tacked on, Kara-Tur, Maztica and Zakhara are cannon realms stuff and there is still a strong tie with Kara-Tur.
dragonheart 02-21-04, 01:10 PM	one other thing I would like to see - when they create a whole new class of options ( like the Chosen templates) and don't define all of them how about a solid template template so we can create our own till they come out with canon to supersede it?
Lord Kell 02-22-04, 12:54 AM	My favorite books featuring the Forgotten Realms are the FRCS itself and Lords of Dakrness. I like the FRCS because it provides a good outline, and the Plots and Rumors were a stroke of genius in my opinion. They initiated some cool creative thought. Lords of Darkness was so great because it gave me a clear picture of the villains goals, motivations, allies, enemies, et cetera, et cetera. Which is why I'd LOVE to see a sourcebook detailing some of the good organizations in Faerun in the same way LoD did for the evil ones. For example, how exactly are the Moonstars different from the Harpers?:confused:? Along the same vein, what about political relationships between countries, cities, and organizations? I'd instantly buy a book covering political machinations ranging from internal Sembian politics to Thay's plans for gaining regional hegemony. Can you imagine how many adventures and campaigns one could do with the fluff from a book like that? :D To me, D&D is a system for one to create stories with the basic structure already in place. Hence, we need more stuff to base stories around and in, and less structure we aren't going to use anyway.
Kuje31 02-22-04, 01:03 AM	Originally posted by Lord Kell For example, how exactly are the Moonstars different from the Harpers?:confused:? This was detailed in one of the last 2e FR products called Cloak & Dagger. It is still useful since most of the book is flavor text........
ph0t0k 02-23-04, 10:11 PM	I'd really like to see more maps of cities, regions, and...the 2e Forgotten Realms box set was truly awesome....I wish I hadn't traded it for some White Wolf product(it was a phase.) I've tried to draw a few myself, but alas my crayon skills are truly quite pathetic. Other than that, I'm good to go. I have FRCS, Magic of Faerun, Faiths and Pantheons, and Lords of Darkness, and most of that has been altered to suit my needs. Anything else I need, I make it up. I have to thank Ed and gang for providing me a great launching pad for a campaign setting I've been using for better than 15 years. Bravo!
Lerris 02-23-04, 10:24 PM	Originally posted by druid berrymore 5/Another DnD movie(not because I want to see it, but because it would inject money and interest into DnD. Authors and designers would have more freedom, and the four things above might see the light of day). I'd suggest doing a movie based on one of the forgotten realms novels, most likly the icewind dale trilagy seeing as you've the game's and things and if done well should be bloodly brilliant.
Wooly Rupert 02-24-04, 01:14 AM	Originally posted by Lerris I'd suggest doing a movie based on one of the forgotten realms novels, most likly the icewind dale trilagy seeing as you've the game's and things and if done well should be bloodly brilliant. The issue of a FR movie is being bandied about in another thread... Personally, I think that basing one on any particular novel is a bad idea... Check out the thread for my reasoning: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177538
Lerris 02-24-04, 05:30 AM	thanks didn't relise that there was a thread didn't see it.
ElGrecoETAC 02-24-04, 06:40 AM	I want to see an annual primer, detailing both the fluff and crunch featured in the FR novels. Have its authors work with the novel authors to the greatest extent possible shooting for a release date between 6 months to a year after the last novel of the previous year. For example, a June to December 2004 Primer release for all the 2003 novels. I want products like the FRCS and like sourcebooks (Player's Guide, for example) to remain "vanilla", for those that prefer to leave novel NPCs and events to novels and focus on their own homegrown campaigns. The Primer, IMO, would be great for allowing DMs to pick and choose from things they liked or didn't like. For example, you could incorporate the fluff offered in novels (cultures, the look of cities, customs, etc.), or you could bring in groups, NPCs (and their stats), and new PrCs and items featured in the latest Greenwood, Cunningham, or Salvatore yarn. I would imagine it would be a low-risk affair for WotC, being that they could gauge from novel sales if it would be a worthwhile investment for any given year. The first time the product crashed sales-wise, they could cancel the entire project. I personally would love to update my Realms easily and efficiently, incorporating the happenings occurring in the novels.
Reefy 02-24-04, 09:32 AM	I've decided that Lord Kell's idea of a product detailing good and neutral power groups is definitely something I would buy, in fact it is probably top of my wish list now. There are plenty of organisations that could be detailed: the Harpers, Moonstars, Heralds, Lord's Alliance, Emerald Enclave, Silver Ravens, Purple Dragons and War Wizards, Knights in Silver etc. Not to mention paladin and monk orders, along with maybe a couple of the churches, trading costers, mercenary companies and no doubt either new groups or ones I've forgotten.
Erpa 02-24-04, 10:16 AM	The best ideas I see, and that I most want are: 1. Updates on the Realms. Imagine a 10-12 dollar sourcebook every 8-12 months detailing what happened in the last 3-4 months of the Realms. A living, continuous story! 2. Adventure modules! I like my own campaigns, but sometimes...sometimes I just want to buy something and run it. Otherwise, it's back to converting "Goblins ate my baby!" :D What I don't want: More on the Heartlands. I'm sick to death of them. I want more-tons more!-on Vilhon Reach, the Shining South, Unther, Mulhorand-all that stuff on the bottom of the map! :D I could give a rat's butt what Drizzt ate today, or which Chosen helped a farmer milk his cows.
azildurn 02-25-04, 05:08 PM	Big Sis, I read your novels aren't allowed link in another forum today. NIce to have it at least partially explained since everyone was aparantly afraid enough to not answer my questions about it in this thread. Not that I care about the novel forum but I would like to add it to the list of examples I gave above of WotC having creative control issues. :)
Athenon 02-25-04, 05:58 PM	Azildurn, I would just point out an important quote by a role model of mine - Royal Tenenbaum. As Royal puts it, "There are no rules." Discuss away. :-)
druid berrymore 02-26-04, 12:02 PM	Originally posted by Erpa Imagine a 10-12 dollar sourcebook... Ha! Right! I'd like to see one of those map folio things with Realms locations. I'd buy that in a second.
Lerris 02-26-04, 12:37 PM	Originally posted by druid berrymore Ha! Right! I'd like to see one of those map folio things with Realms locations. I'd buy that in a second. What a realms Gazetteer, yeah that would be nice.
azildurn 02-26-04, 06:11 PM	This was detailed in one of the last 2e FR products called Cloak & Dagger. It is still useful since most of the book is flavor text........ You mean books that aren't all rules can be reused...wow...and they don't have to redo everything each time a new set of rules come out and they can spend their time creating new content that keeps fans interested and advances the overall position of the core product. Man that's smart...it's a shame WotC hasn't figured it out. ;)
Arashi Ravenblade 02-27-04, 12:39 PM	Id like to see a book covering Maztica, Zakhara,and Kara-tur...wont happen but a update in dragon would be nice or at least a time line of whats been going on in those areas. A book covering all major NPC's of the realms. a regional book for Mulhorand, Unther and the surrounding areas. And at least once a year a mega adventure that revolves around something big happening in the FR that year.
Mason P. 02-27-04, 01:17 PM	The first thing I would like to see would be a source book on the Dale Lands, The second would have to be Modules from 1 level up to 20 set in the realms.They could incorporate the things going on the the area. I don't like converting the "generic" D&D mods to new towns and such. Third is a book similar to the LoD for the "good" organizations. Fourth a book of detailed maps of the Realms. Fifth is is a book for the trade and goods of the realms. Sixth is a book on the different islands and navys of the realms. What i want less of: FEATS & PRESTIEGE CLASSES!!! This is getting silly., every book that comes outis about half feats and Pres. classes. Just make one big book and stop filling up our source books with things we don't want. More frequently released materials. It is sad to think we can only get one book of 190 pages every 4 months. They have a team of people working on this and remember that a good chunck of it is nice pretty pictures. They could just rerelease the old books converted to 3ed. They know what were good sellers then.
Tobin Goldenstagg 03-04-04, 01:18 AM	I was just looking at the new books for next month section and they have a new book coming out, 200 somthing pages of wasted space on psionics. The revised book, its a shame that they think people are going to just run out and buy any book that they put out. anyway on to the list 1. MAPS!!! 2. and by maps I mean decent well done maps of the realms as they are
Misyrr 03-04-04, 01:31 AM	What do I want to see? Read the following: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=193904
Gaidzin 03-04-04, 08:21 AM	There has been a general tendency to people wanting more and more maps! I am highly in favour for more (detailed) maps, since the campaign setting laked a few ( :banghead: :banghead: ) good maps of several regions. The poster sized map in the back of the book can solve some issues, but not nearly all. Maybe what follows is a bit too :teach: but on the other hand, there is some satisfaction in creating your own maps. It will allow you to explore you're own imagination and that's what rpg-ing is all about. I agree though, that more (detailed maps) will aid our imagination further.
Damo 03-06-04, 01:53 PM	crikey, I don't think I have enough time left to list EVERYTHING I want... ;) anyway: more on the history of the world for me: more LORE less crunch please: more about people and their dreams and schemes and less about their stats: more decent adventures a la Halls of the High King: the properly done version of the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar: Trade routes: books similar to claok and dagger: etc, etc etc also Azildurn (sp?) mentioned that perhaps the wizards folks don't read the boards here - well in that case just email customer service at custserv@wizards.com and tell them what you want, and do it EVERY day (yes EVERY day :)), it only takes a couple of minutes maximum, just DO IT and tell WoTC's what you want to see for the Realms and what you don't cheers Damian
Cunning Linguist 03-06-04, 02:40 PM	You send an email to these poor folk each day? If you are that dedicated, this is what you do: Gather around with all the FR people you know around the US. Then make them go to there local gaming store, and start gathering signatures from people who would like more fluff and adventure. Get about 1000 of these signs and put them in a big box and send them to the development department. Email don't impress anyone now a days, but if a company gets 10+ phone calls or letters, they call it a "buyers uprising" or "consumer rebellion" and often take it to heart. (Note: This is only works for US residents; Companies seldom listen to people from other countries, as these are dumping ground for products.)
Technomancer 03-06-04, 03:27 PM	100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :pile: :invasion:
Reefy 03-08-04, 07:04 AM	Originally posted by Cunning Linguist You send an email to these poor folk each day? If you are that dedicated, this is what you do: Gather around with all the FR people you know around the US. Then make them go to there local gaming store, and start gathering signatures from people who would like more fluff and adventure. Get about 1000 of these signs and put them in a big box and send them to the development department. Email don't impress anyone now a days, but if a company gets 10+ phone calls or letters, they call it a "buyers uprising" or "consumer rebellion" and often take it to heart. (Note: This is only works for US residents; Companies seldom listen to people from other countries, as these are dumping ground for products.) Just a small tip, petitions are generally ineffective. Some people will sign them just to get the person with it to go away. It's also very easy to just ignore and bin one petition signed by 1000 people. Far moe effective is 1000 people each sending a letter, it's rather harder to ignore that.
MagicMatt 03-08-04, 01:12 PM	MORE 1) Detailed Flora & Fauna, Climate, and area flavor. 2) Details of the various cultures. (Social interaction, behaviors, beliefs, customs, art, architecture, pastimes, etc.) 3) More stuff on half elves (a land of their own would make sense) 4) Maps Maps Maps 5) More neutral bent to things, its full of saccharin sweet do-gooders or ultra evil baddies, how about a more realistic approach to human/demi- human behavior. LESS 1) Prestige Classes, feats, kits, ect. 2) DROW 3) Changing the rules every few years just so you can sell more product! :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono: :nonono:
Lashan 03-08-04, 08:33 PM	If you want flora and fauna, you might try getting the Elminster's Ecologies. There were several products with all that in it already published.
greatestDM 03-08-04, 10:59 PM	I am fairly new to the realms, but I need more already. I loved the Silver Marches book, but that has got to be 1/20 of Faerun that can be covered. Come on WoTC! You've got to be able to fluff out more! I want; 1: More books like Silver Marches 2: More Maps and posters 3: Updates all the time 4: A history book on Faerun 5: Prestige classes that fit, with detailed thinking involved that actually complements regions. I don't want; 1: Useless feats/spells/prestige classes 2: Rushed anime-like artwork 3: Useless filler 4: Adaptions that travel beyond the FR setting 5: Ignorance from WoTC
Gaidzin 03-09-04, 04:44 AM	Originally posted by MagicMatt LESS DROW Drow add hugely to this Campaign Setting! They are the embodiment of evil on Faerun and represent a class devoted to self ehancement through any means possible. Besides one cannot know good without knowing evil!
MagicMatt 03-09-04, 07:59 AM	[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gaidzin [B]Drow add hugely to this Campaign Setting! They are the embodiment of evil on Faerun and represent a class devoted to self ehancement through any means possible. Your right about the Drow [and they are now using half-Drow that are even more interesting I think], but the Drow have become overused by FR as a plot/story line in my opinion. They are the dominate race in the Underdark, and now they seem to be everywhere on the surface too [3 tribes of Drow in the Forest of Mirr! (Lands of Intrigue)
azildurn 03-09-04, 09:47 AM	Originally posted by Gaidzin Drow add hugely to this Campaign Setting! They are the embodiment of evil on Faerun and represent a class devoted to self ehancement through any means possible. Besides one cannot know good without knowing evil! I don't really have an opinion on whether drow are used too much or not but the problem with the above statement is that if Drow are indeed the "embodiment of evil" and they are everywhere then that makes evil one dimensional and boring. That coupled with the less than subtle nature of an evil race make them less than intesting as a major villian. IMO the are much better used when they are stumbled on deep in the earth and their depravity is a change from the norm. To me, it's much more interesting if there are a thousand shades of evil and semi-evil and self-interst and disinterst and various other non good folk. Though I haven't really thought it myself, if they've overdone drow in this many people's opinions it's time for them to move on and make some better more subtle and more varied villians as well. Otherwise we end up with one dimensional comic book evil which isn't as much fun to role play in my opinion.
Gaidzin 03-09-04, 11:21 AM	I never claimed they were overdone/overpresent. I do not think they are. I like to play drow (Zakna'Tel: CG Male Drow FGHTR 2 / RNGR 2) because it poses a couple of challenges. Firstly (& most importantly): their racial heritage. The hate of the people of Faerun for the drow is so fundamental that is is nearly impossible to just walk into any city and live a normal live. Plus it will take a lot of convincing to let party members (& Faeruinans) see that not all drow are evil. Secondly: their society. Treatchery, deception, vengance and betrayal are ever present and are truly (if played well) a challenge (both for PC's & DM alike). The daylight apadtation feat made it possible to expect drow even on the suface during the day and thus drow are now a force to be reckoned with, same as Trolls, Ogres, Orcs, Goblins, Dragons. There are many more (& more frequently used) races than drow who are more dangerous (in groups, or seperately) whom nobody complains about. Drow are part of the Faeruinian world and are there to stay. Besides... you do not have to use the drow. They just add to the already vast experience that is the Realms
druid berrymore 03-09-04, 12:22 PM	Originally posted by greatestDM 4: A history book on Faerun I second that! The only problem is that if it was done correctly it would be over a thousand pages. But, yeah. Good one.
Decepticons 03-09-04, 12:26 PM	Time for someone to play devil's advocate. I'd like to see: 1) Greater understanding of supply and demand 2) Greater understanding of the fact that a corp. is bound by it's shareholders and CEO's/CFO's and other acronymns that designate one as a manager of something. 3) Greater understanding that we live in a free market society where companies like WoTC can't exist if they don't make money. 4) Realization that a large number of people with advanced business and economic degrees are often needed to run a comany like WoTC....and that these people often lack creativity (or even an understanding of the product). ___________________________ Now, I'm not trying to say there aren't some great suggestions here, but one thing I notice is that while there are quite a few similarities in posts, there are also quite a few difference. That's the pit TSR fell into. They tried to make to many different things, reducing demand for any one item. I'm in the lucky position of being financially able to buy just about every DnD book that comes out, but most people aren't. Thus, if you put out a Meztica book, and a Kara-Tur book, and half a dozen other continental-region books, you water down the demand for any one of them. If you then print 500,000 of each, and only 100,000 sell...you've got a problem. I agree with the majority of posters here in that I don't want to see any more prestige classes/feats/skills/spells (unless it's going to be done in a book, or series of books, specifically for that type of stuff). As a person who is predominantly a DM, I like the fluff as well...not only does it give me more details to work with, it supplies a variety of ideas to add to my own campaigns. However, this thread smells pretty DM intensive to me. I'd bet a lot of posters here are DM's. It's the players who are driving the market for more prestige classes, more skills, more feats...and there are more players (generally) than there are DM's. Thats why I'm happy to see something like Players guide to Faerun coming out...because I won't have to wave my finger of inscrutible power at my players and yell "Stay out of (insert sourebook here)!" And now, because I to, have a list... 1) Sourcebook (or two) detailing places that are off the beaten path. Mainly areas south of the Lake of Steam; Chuult, Samarach, Thindol, Halruaa, Dambrath, Luiren, Estagund...) 2) Sourcebook on the Anauroch desert. 3) OMG, PLEASE, PLEASE LESS CRAPPY NOVELS THAT ADVANCE THE STORYLINE OF THE REALMS!!! As many have suggested, a yearly re-cap of what happened in the realms would be super. (Caps means I'm very serious about this. I realize that a lot of people like the fantasy novels. I'm not saying I'm right, just expressing an opinion. If you like R.A. Hackatorie, great. I have no intention of engaging in a flame-fest over books). 4) Less drow in everything! Everyone loves the drow, they're evil and cool and beautiful. We get it already. 5) Full book adventures! Did anyone buy Gary Gygax's (can I say that name here?) Necropolis? I think it's fantastic, even though it's an "Eygptian-esque" campaign. More stuff like this (but without the need to involve and entire new pantheon...and will someone PLEASE hire the people at Necromancer games a decent editor/printer? The misspell more words than I do). 6) Give me a nice, thick, long adventure versus the Yuan-Ti!
dragonheart 03-09-04, 09:22 PM	If what it takes to get the fluff I like/use is a bunch of new feats and prestige classes I can live with that - I like the spells but it would be nice to update ALL the old ones ( I'm still looking for Melf's minute meteors). Maps and a gazetter of major events would be very nice as well. If they aren't going to make any/many moreadventures why not hire some of us to update the old ones to the new standards? most of us are doing things like that anyway - they get it down cheap and we get a publishing credit that would help some (not me I don't have the time, interest or ability) get started in the gaming business. THey would still hold copyright and final approval and could set a the rate fairly low I bet and still get takers and the darn work would be done.
azildurn 03-11-04, 10:30 AM	I never claimed they were overdone/overpresent. Nor did I say you did. When you claimed they were important because they were the embodiment of evil I pointed out that I don't want evil to be one dimensional and have an "embodiment" for a whole vast world as it were. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on whether they're overdone or not. Many say they are so that would point to the fact that they are receiving an unbalanced amount of attention in FR products. On a personal design note, I just think the concepts of "evil races" kinda sucks and is cliche. I wouldn't remove the drow because they are an important part of the FR world but I wouldn't use them in every campaign either. I'm much more comfortable with evil nations and evil duchies and evil cities and evil groups but that's just a personal preference thing. Also if they're going to be an evil race then I think they are much more sinister in their natural setting where there is a whole culture/city of evil for PCs to contend with.
azildurn 03-11-04, 11:03 AM	5) Full book adventures! Did anyone buy Gary Gygax's (can I say that name here?) Necropolis? I think it's fantastic, even though it's an "Eygptian-esque" campaign. More stuff like this (but without the need to involve and entire new pantheon...and will someone PLEASE hire the people at Necromancer games a decent editor/printer? The misspell more words than I do). Absolutely excellent adventure(s). Necropolis is good, Barakus is good, I'm sure the new combined Rappan Athuk book will be good. They may not sell as well as rule books but I buy just about everything Necro puts out to support the fact that they put out useful modules. Necro is absolutely the best publisher out there hands down even given the step down in production quality of some products and even when they do projects I can't use. It's a great company and I'd urge everyone to support them as much as possible. (and no I don't have any affiliation with them...they hate me on their boards as much as you guys here. ;) )
Boz Shulun 03-11-04, 11:13 AM	If WOTC knows anything, it’s marketing their product and sales. Drow as a race are their cash cows. All they have to do is put the words: Drow, Underdark, Drizzt, blah blah blah on the cover and they sell like crazy. You want to see less of something that they put out. STOP BUYING IT. There is no quicker way to a bean counters heart (other than through his chest) than through his wallet. Now for my list: I love the Unapproachable East book. I would love to see more regional supplements given that kind of care. Published adventures. I know that it is against flow of the DM purists who think that every adventure has to be 100% original thought, but as a person that has a busy life (as I suspect most people do) I would love to be able to just run a book adventure every once in a while. I realize that Dungeon magazine is a wonderful resource for small adventures but it’s still nice to get a big module now and again. More novels that deal with characters and less world changing events (see Erevis Cale). As for my less of list: See above.
Evil O 03-12-04, 04:48 AM	Ok lets make WoTC understand what we want. I“d say more: 1. more on Chult, Halruua and other sparsely descriped areas. 2. I agree on what other have said, more maps. 3. More for the seagoing campaigns. 4. More on cultures, social behaviors, beliefs, customs. 5. A GOOD compilation of the stories from FR. What I don“t need: 1. Constant changing to rules to have us buy more books we really dont need !!!. 2. More Prestige Classes. 3. More lame Feats. 4. More stupid(sorry!) spells. 5. WoTC ignoring demands from all of us.
dragonheart 03-23-04, 06:50 PM	what with 40th level shadow weave mages adn drow outnumbering all other elves together etc what I would really like to see is some reason provided for why there is still so much good in Faerun - from all the posts and (some) folks love of these evil groups and hatreds of the heros of good (El and co.) it would be nice to see afew things come out on the side of good to even up the sides and restore a real balance of power. It sounds like ( from a couple of posts by WotC folks) we are also going to get the return of the evil surface elves that started the crown wars a few thousand years ago (or at least their demon bred descendants) so where are the new epic level heros to take on all this evil and mantain the balance? or are we about to see faerun simply become a new ravenloft with essentially only evil folk vieing for control? so what I would like to see is some clear indications of why the forces of good are so successful.
jimmyjimjam 03-23-04, 09:38 PM	Originally posted by Mystery Man I'd like to see a thoroughly detailed sourcebook on Maztica, Al Qadim and Karatur .....NOT!!!!! :fight!: :smirk: :fight!: So why'd you bother mentioning it, then? Al-Qadim was one of the best damned settings for d&d, ever.
The Fury of Ages 03-23-04, 09:57 PM	how about a campaign made by R.A (Literature Diety) Salvatore, cast anywhere in the realms not just the underdark. or one of the other great writers do such a thing. no more feats or classes what is left to the imagination if they keep copyrighting ideas.
Aris Stormdragon 03-26-04, 02:25 AM	ME WANT: 1. Sourcebooks (Cormyr, The Cold Lands, The Moonshae Isles). 2. A Lords Of Darkness style SB for the Good Guys. 3. Info on running an Evil Realms Campaign.:devil: 4. More Realms Specific Prc's. 5. More Realms Specific Spells and such. 6. Super Adventures ala City of the Spider Queen. ME NOT WANT: 1. Any more on the Drow for the present; they are cool, I agree, but it's time for another villain/monster to take center-stage for awhile....until everyone forgets about them, and they strike suddenly from the Underdark mwahahahahaha! 2. Non-Realms specific material (generic info to encourage others to use it in their own non-Realms campaign). 3. No more about Elminster....for the present. Give the Big Guy a vacation, and let an unknown Arch-Mage take center stage. Then bring El back (absence makes the heart grow fonder, after all). 4. Rushed products, especially computer game-tie in novels, written just because the game sold like hotcakes (IMHO). Take your time, and tell us a tale worthy of the bards! 5. Changing the appearance of a character (Drizzt) just because a new edition of the game has come out. All know that Drizzt wears Chainmail gifted to him by his friend Bruenor. That being said, the new Drizzt does look cool - he's just not the Drizzt that I met in the Underdark. Feel free to agree/disagree.
Anubis2004 04-09-04, 04:18 AM	1. First of all let me say, that the most important aspect off Forgotten Realms is the history. The old empires of faerun, IMO are just as important as, the present regions. So a history book or books, would benefit me greatly. 2. I really like the idea of a book, about the economies, pictures of all the coins in faerun, and I refuse to beleive that everything is the same price everywere in this vast continent. 3. The next best thing, would be the religions. Faiths and Pantheons showed the deities themselves, but only stated like 1 or 2 holidays. Also, like someone else said, how the different cerimonies like Marrage, birth and death, were performed. 4. I really like maps of cities, there should be more. 5. Source books. Every nook and crany should be in its own book. 6. The realms needs a book on the cosmology of Toril. 7. A book about the good organizations of the realms. Maybe then people would actually want to join a good aligned organization, instead of the bad ones. 8. Crunch material in its own book. For every Crunch book, there should be 2 Fluff books. If WOTC wrote more Fluff books, then I think it would make the game more interesting to players and DM's. The Dont"s 1. They do not need Eberon. It looks like it will suck and draw new players away from the best campaign setting out there, you guest it, Forgotten Realms. If people by Eberon, then you will see less FR products. If this happens then you can say goodbuy to these great ideas everyone has.
Aris Stormdragon 04-09-04, 07:40 AM	I'll probably get a lot of flak for saying this, but from the preview articles in the Dragon, Eberron has some interesting elements.:smirk: What we need to do is take those elements, incorporate them into our own campaigns, and show that they work better in Faerun.:schemes: But there is one thing we need to consider, and it is this: The Forgotten Realms have been around for 10+years, and that is a long time, IMHO. It could be that the powers that be at WotC beleive that the Realms have run their course, and are looking for the next big setting to take it's place.:nonono: But then again, I might be wrong.:devil: One thing I do know, is that based on what I've read on these boards, Elminster and Company won't go down without a fight!:fight!: :fight!: :fight!:
Metis 04-09-04, 09:16 AM	I believe it was Rich Baker who said that both the Realms and Eberron will be receiving exactly the same amount of focus as to amount of material being released. Have no fear, the Realms are here to stay.
Anubis2004 04-09-04, 03:26 PM	But wouldn't it be better if they made more forgotten realms material. And no Eberon. I mean if they publish 3 eberon books and 3 forgotten realms books, are you going to buy all 6. I'm not, but if they publish 6 forgotten realms books, I'd buy them all. I'm just saying that at first glance, eberon looks better to a new audiance. I for one will not buy eberon books.
Metis 04-09-04, 03:36 PM	I'll likely not be buying the Eberron material either (that on top of the Realms and core stuff I'm going to be buying is just WAY too much money spent). But it's really not harming the production of Realms goodies. It'll be drawing money from a different audience and netting Wizards more cash to produce more books and for longer...
Evil O 04-10-04, 08:32 AM	OK I allready posted on this one, but I have to do it again! We do NOT need more (pardon me!) stupid new worlds for us to play in! We have the best and as Aris Stormdragon said, Forgotten Realsm has been here for more than 10 years. It is still the best setting; it is the most versitile, it has the widest variation to; public, religion, customs, climate, terrain, history(still too little) and many other issues. We need more books on history; local areas, land area and all of Faerun; more customs of the various people who lives in the different lands( so we have something to build on as DM“s!); more books on the inter-monster fights that must be all over Faerun( with that many monsters there must be alot of fighting among monsters) and we wish more books( Yes I know it comes to alot of books) for us to use in Villian, Npc and odd encounter creations when we plan a campaign or encounter. Just my two cents Evil O:devil:
Athenon 04-10-04, 06:04 PM	Hi everyone, I got the Player's Guide last week. I have to say that I'm really struck by how uninteresting this book is. I keep leafing through it, trying to find something worthwhile, but I keep coming up empty. The updated spell list have some value, I suppose. While I have been dissappointed in some of the decisions WotC has made in 3e Realms products, this really takes the cake. Despite the obligatory 60% prestige classes, spells and new races, most of the previous FR products have been really solid. This one takes the cake. I really am worried about the 2004 approach of WotC. Selling a special edition players handbook (with no errata and no new content), a map folio (of things that have been on the web for 3+ years) and now this flimsy product makes me feel they must be hurting for creative staff. Why are they not developing cool new ideas? There seem to be no shortage of people posting on this thread over the last two months about things they want. These wishes seem to be 180 degrees away from what's being offered. I wish the powers that be would listen to the customer!
azildurn 04-12-04, 03:58 PM	We do NOT need more (pardon me!) stupid new worlds for us to play in! See this is the problem with fanatics. You can't have everything your way. In fact I think it's blind support for FR products that have led us to the sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in today. Forget Eberron, you should be worried about the crap content they're putting out for your beloved FR and D&D in general. I hereby declare creativity dead at WotC...or at least on a long ass vacation. Someone call me if it comes back and I'll buy another WotC product until then I'll find another hobby to satisfy my uber-consumer tendancies or spend my RPG dollars elsewhere. As an example regardless of what you think of the world this is how a world setting should be produced (http://empcho.bizhosting.com/ ). The World Book of Khass has reminded me how good a well done setting can be. It's 800+ pages without a single rule. I LOVE IT!!! I bought this monster for around $70 and I won't be buying another FR product for a while because it's awakened a sense of disappointment and outrage in me over what I've been buying from WotC recently. This is what I'll pay big money for WotC not a money grubbing version of the Player's Handbook with a nice cover. Get a clue and get creative. You're a better company than this. Hopefully seeing what creativity looks like might inspire someone over there to get up and do something useful rather than trying to capitalize off of old ideas and previous work.
pblogic 04-19-04, 09:25 PM	Originally posted by azildurn I've heard Greenwood talk several times about a leather-bound encylcopedia of the realms that he would write/produce if he were in charge. Obviously with WotC being money grubbers and caring little about the content of the realms as long as it comes in a hardback $35 format this is unlikely to happen. What I'd suggest is for them to spin off an upscale realms product line. Let Greenwood run the project and produce his leather-bound volumes and charge $100 (or $300 if they're nice enough) each for them. Produce 2 or 3 a year and make the margin on them high enough that you don't have to sell one to every Tom, Dick, and Harry that owns a 20-sided to make a profit. Many realms fans would own every volume and the content would be good for a change. Oh well dreams are always pleasant but for this to happen WotC would have to care more about content and customer service/responsiveness than maximization of short-term profit and that will never happen with the bean counter managing school to which they subscribe. You have to sell enough of them to make up for production costs. I don't know anyone that would be willing to pay 100$, let alone 300$. Only maybe a few of the really hardcore realms freaks. I really doubt enough people would buy something like this to recoup the cost. Also, I doubt they would take the risk. I see alot of these suggestions for alot of different products, but they never work.
pblogic 04-19-04, 09:27 PM	Originally posted by azildurn See this is the problem with fanatics. You can't have everything your way. In fact I think it's blind support for FR products that have led us to the sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in today. Forget Eberron, you should be worried about the crap content they're putting out for your beloved FR and D&D in general. I hereby declare creativity dead at WotC...or at least on a long ass vacation. Someone call me if it comes back and I'll buy another WotC product until then I'll find another hobby to satisfy my uber-consumer tendancies or spend my RPG dollars elsewhere. As an example regardless of what you think of the world this is how a world setting should be produced (http://empcho.bizhosting.com/ ). The World Book of Khass has reminded me how good a well done setting can be. It's 800+ pages without a single rule. I LOVE IT!!! I bought this monster for around $70 and I won't be buying another FR product for a while because it's awakened a sense of disappointment and outrage in me over what I've been buying from WotC recently. This is what I'll pay big money for WotC not a money grubbing version of the Player's Handbook with a nice cover. Get a clue and get creative. You're a better company than this. Hopefully seeing what creativity looks like might inspire someone over there to get up and do something useful rather than trying to capitalize off of old ideas and previous work. That world looks stupid.