Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Meldread 09-30-07, 03:03 AM	I don't think it's shocking that most people here and on Candlekeep don't like the changes coming to the Realm's. It is a bit like an echo chamber, in that almost everyone here is here because they like how the Realm's is currently. If they hated it they wouldn't be posting on these forums. I personally was teetering on the edge. I had imposed a self-boycott against FR novels refusing to purchase any of them. Yet for the first time in a very long time I am having to fight the urge to go out and buy the Orc King. I am not particularly a fan of RAS or Drizzt nor do I particularly care what happens in the story. I just want to search the novel for information on the future. There are a few things that I am not looking forward too, but over all I like the sound of the changes. I like the direction things are heading. I'm a bit nervous as I know we will lose some people, but I also see other people (like myself) on other forums saying that these changes have renewed their interest in the FR. It really won't matter much to future FR gamers as they would have never known the "old" setting. Ultimately, I am just interested to see how many people here at least feel interested in the new changes. Not nessessarily embracing them whole heartedly, but feel open to them and intend to purchase the 4E FRCS to at least give things a chance.
MarkusTay63 09-30-07, 03:09 AM	I like the new rules, they sound interesting and contain many concepts I've been toying with myself. I find the new setting somewhat intersting as well, and I will take a look at it - just as I do with every new setting that comes out. I will miss FR though. It's dead, and nothing is going to bring it back at this point. Calling a brand new setting Forgotten Realms does not make it so. :(
Flecha 09-30-07, 06:49 AM	I don't think it's shocking that most people here and on Candlekeep don't like the changes coming to the Realm's. It is a bit like an echo chamber, in that almost everyone here is here because they like how the Realm's is currently. If they hated it they wouldn't be posting on these forums. Sorry, Meldread, but that's utterly wrong. People come to this forums lokking for information, many of us to know what new crimes will be perpetrated on the Realms. It's logical to look for that information to the forums of the company who makes the job. Candleekeep is filled with long-ago-fans of the realm, so, while change is a fact of life, their voices have a lot of weight. There are a few things that I am not looking forward too, but over all I like the sound of the changes. I like the direction things are heading. I'm a bit nervous as I know we will lose some people, but I also see other people (like myself) on other forums saying that these changes have renewed their interest in the FR. It really won't matter much to future FR gamers as they would have never known the "old" setting. That's right, they'll have a new different setting but won't know it, so they won't be the ones who'll protest. :rolleyes: Again, change is a fact of life, is necessary, and mostly good. What we want is that the Realm keep being the Realms and not some other setting, less an existing one, or we'll be playing the same thing twice. On the other hand, maybe that's a consecuence of the *stupid* corporate thought: "Do you like the new looks of your old setting? Well, then you'll like this other setting that you can buy TOO". Ultimately, I am just interested to see how many people here at least feel interested in the new changes. Not nessessarily embracing them whole heartedly, but feel open to them and intend to purchase the 4E FRCS to at least give things a chance. Er... you're assuming that fans of the Realms who dread the new changes won't be interested on them? Think again... They are precisely the most interested in those changes! It's only they want to know who bad will it be before losing... i mean... spending their bucks. And trust me, even even after repeating once and again they won't buy the new FRCS, they will to see what's in it, because of their love of the Realms. And WotC knows of this and take advantage of those feelings... :weep:
Suin Bahhar 09-30-07, 08:42 AM	Im still on the fence. I intend to look at the rules first. If I like them (and they could very well do) 4e FR will be mine just too see how they did the conversions. If I like the "new realms" I might make the jump, but my current campaigns are not that fast paced timeline wise so I got like 25 years of gametime in the "old realms" left. I just want to keep playing that's all...
MerrikCale 09-30-07, 12:26 PM	I'm interested. I must say I'm not confident I'll like it, but I will be interested to see the new FRCS.
MarkusTay63 09-30-07, 01:18 PM	For better or worse, I think all fans of FR, as well as players of D&D and even 3rd party stuff, are all looking forward to 4e with both trepedition and hope. Let's just pray they don't 'dash' the latter. ;)
Flecha 09-30-07, 03:45 PM	My thougths, precisely.
Dark Wizard 09-30-07, 04:11 PM	The changes seem very bland and heavy-handed to me as they stand now. I could like them if they actually tied back into other things or were given more elaborate backgrounds. It remains to be seen. WotC hasn't done much to show they particularly care for the history of the Realms with these new changes, maybe they will prove me wrong.
Zanan 09-30-07, 04:27 PM	The funny bit is that people actually do not know what is coming their way. They comment and theorize of tidbits of information as if that was fact cast into stone - no matter whether we speak of the Realms or the rules. Who knows what the day after the Spellplague will actually look like? You?
MarkusTay63 09-30-07, 04:41 PM	The funny bit is that people actually do not know what is coming their way. They comment and theorize of tidbits of information as if that was fact cast into stone - no matter whether we speak of the Realms or the rules. Who knows what the day after the Spellplague will actually look like? You?Funny you should say that.... Have you seen The day after tomorrow? ;) Nowhwere have I ever seen a post-apocalyptic world come out smelling like a rose. The fact that we know the world will be worse off (the Orc King spoiler, remember) a century later indicates that we are most likely looking at a "hundred years of hell on Earth" scenario. Everything points to pain and anguish, and NOTHING so far has pointed to a morning after where the air is cleaner and the flowers smell nicer. Mystra dies and the Weave disappears, and you think it will look like a Disney movie with pretty princesses and small animals singing and dancing? :confused: You're right, we don't know what the world will look like in 1386 DR... but do we REALLY want to? I'm sorry if I'm being overly sarcastic, but everything so far has pointed to a "world gone mad". :(
GothicDan 09-30-07, 04:52 PM	The funny bit is that people actually do not know what is coming their way. They comment and theorize of tidbits of information as if that was fact cast into stone - no matter whether we speak of the Realms or the rules. Who knows what the day after the Spellplague will actually look like? You? That old argument again? Pft. ;)
Dark Wizard 09-30-07, 05:52 PM	Everything points to pain and anguish, and NOTHING so far has pointed to a morning after where the air is cleaner and the flowers smell nicer. Mystra dies and the Weave disappears, and you think it will look like a Disney movie with pretty princesses and small animals singing and dancing? :confused: You're right, we don't know what the world will look like in 1386 DR... but do we REALLY want to? I'm sorry if I'm being overly sarcastic, but everything so far has pointed to a "world gone mad". :( Even the last entry of GHotR says it will be the terrible beginning of the new world. Also, the in-house designers have not taken nearly as much effort as Ed or the other freelancers to reassure people about the changes. Most of the responses from WotC seem to be rather confrontational like - We're doing these changes and it's set, not much you can say or do, though we hear what you're saying, or We know people will not like what we do with this character or god or kingdom. We know we are changing huge swaths of Faerun, but they are places where fewer people play in anyway... They acknowledge their changes are drastic and will be irritating to some, but make no effort to state their case for the changes or to show much of anything good that comes out of it, just a very single-minded rush to trim many Realms elements as if that were the only option left to save the Realms. If the designers showed more confidence in their work it might turn out better. "Hey guys, I know we're removing the Kingdom or Character X, but I think what comes up will be more interesting, here's a hint," as opposed to "Well, Kingdom or Character X is gone and that will make their fans unhappy." The in-house designers should be getting excited about the changes for the new Realms like they have shown for the upcoming 4E, but I have yet to see that. It gives us a sense that perhaps the changes aren't that great and even the designers think so.
MarkusTay63 09-30-07, 06:19 PM	Especially with some of the recent back-peddling. With the release date just a few months off, they have admitted that they still have no clue what to do with the Fugue Plane, amongst other things. Don't get me wrong, having Ed onboard is a wonderful thing, but it almost reminds me of the movie Waterworld. Just before it's release, they pulled everyone back into the studio and refilmed a bunch of scenes, and Kevin Costner even showed up to re-do his parts for FREE. That doesn't inspire confidence - that tells the consumer "hey, we made an awful mess of this... but we are trying to patch it up and make it viable at the last minute". Ed now has the un-enviable chore of taking the shlock he's handed and trying to make it the Realms again. If he succeeds, we should give the guy a golden crown of thorns at the next gencon. ;)
Meldread 09-30-07, 07:02 PM	I really think a lot of people are acting like Chicken Littles. ;) From my understanding of things, Ed has always been in that position from the moment he signed away the FR to TSR. They come to him and say, 'We want this in the Realm's, make it happen Mister Greenwood.' Let's face it 98% of the stuff we see today was not in the 'vision' Ed had for the Realm's, and Ed himself does not even play in the current incarnation of the Realm's. I highly doubt Ed will play in the 4E Realm's considering that he doesn't play in the 3E Realm's. However, that doesn't seem to detract from the enjoyment everyone here seems to have of the current version. What I think WotC is doing is looking over the setting as a whole. They took a look at it and said, "Okay, we have 20 years of bloat and baggage with a lot of rough edges. We have stuff that just doesn't fit or make sense. The world is in danger of losing its original flavor and becoming diluted. It's difficult for new players to come into the game without having read at least some of the novels, and possessing a strong understanding of AT LEAST the FRCS if not the region that they will be gaming in... not to mention having to understand the underlying metagame rules the setting is based on. Let's try and have things become more simple, get back to the basics of the game, and embrace the original flavor of the world. A world with challenges, dangers, in need of heroic characters to step up and step forward to meet them head on. A world filled with mystery and secrets. How do we accomplish this?" That's what I think happened. Then once the basic idea was hammered out they turned to the core designers, and hammered out the path to get to where they desire, and then as they are doing now they are turning to the contributors such as Ed and saying 'Okay, Mister Greenwood. Make this happen.' Just as it has always been done.
Dark Wizard 09-30-07, 07:46 PM	Which makes me wonder, if the current Realms are so bad and baggage filled why do they bother keeping some semblance of continuity. Wouldn't the quickest and cleanest way be to do an actual restart like all the franchise remakes we keep seeing in movies. Why move things a decade or even a century forward which would still leave you baggage, when simply starting back from square one with an entirely new interpretation. That is essentially what they're doing but the way they're going about it is carrying a lot of baggage with it, including more RSE problems in the Spellplague and some aspects are still locked in place due to even the weak continuity with the old Realms. What they're doing is Crisis on Infinite Earths, which DC is still sorting through after many years and numerous follow-up world shaking events. In the end they got left with more baggage than they started with. Marvel did their Ultimates series which assumed a fresh start from the beginning. It's relatively popular from what I gather.
Meldread 09-30-07, 08:21 PM	I'm not saying it will go off perfectly and things won't blow up in their face. It might. Although, the reason I don't think they are going this route is out of respect for the fans. Not just D&D players but also those who read the novels. Look at how well the Great Tree was received by the community. The largest complaint (outside of the fact that most felt the Wheel was superior) was the fact that it broke continuity with the setting. Things that once existed in the Wheel and had interacted with the setting were suddenly no longer there. There was no explanation. What is being done is on a much larger level than that. The planes of FR have always been pretty much secondary to the setting with no real importance. I mean, it didn't matter to a farmer in Cormyr if the planes existed in the wheel or the tree so long as Chauntea still ensured his crops grew. However, to institute the type of changes they are talking about would have effectively meant saying, "Everything you thought you knew about the Realms... that wasn't true. Just forget it all. We're going a different direction now." At least in the method they have chosen it does not invalidate the past, it simply wipes the slate clean. So instead of saying, "Everything you thought you knew didn't happen." They are saying, "Everything you know happened a long time ago. Almost everyone aside from these five people are dead. The world as a whole has changed forever, and has fallen into a dark age, and you are needed in this world more than ever to set things right again."
Hawkfeather 09-30-07, 09:04 PM	They are saying, "Everything you know happened a long time ago. Almost everyone aside from these five people are dead. The world as a whole has changed forever, and has fallen into a dark age, and you are needed in this world more than ever to set things right again." If this is really what is in the mind of the designers, then they should not call this scenario "Forgotten Realms". They should create a new setting. Period. Sorry if I sound a little bit harsh, but I see no point in making so drastic changes. It's like saying that in Athas there will be more psionics and that defiler magic is gone too. If this happened then it no more be the Dark Sun setting. It would be something else, because all the classic concepts that defined and made the flavour of Dark Sun would be stripped off. Mind you, I'm not against changes. In fact, I think that must be an in-game explanation for the change in the magic system. But I think that the changes the designers are currently planning are completely non-sense (Tyr killing Helm due a romantic dispute for Tymora??? :confused: :confused: ) and killing the flavour of the Realms.
MarkusTay63 09-30-07, 09:25 PM	Actually, they did re-boot Darksun... and lost half the fans in doing so. Personally, I liked it better when the Dragonkings ran things, but I didn't play so it was no skin off my nose. I'm torn - I like all the attention FR is getting (as opposed to the last few years of Eberron love), but if it means 're-inventing the wheel', then perhaps it would have been better off passed up and an entirely new setting developed. That would mean FR would be pushed further back in the line-up (like GH is now), never to see any sort of love again. So now we fans have to ask ourselves... which is better? Being ignored and waiting for the slow, inevitable death, or having them re-write the whole thing just so we get new lore? It's a question I've been struggling with since this began. I was looking over my old GH stuff, and even some of my ancient Judge's Guild supplements, and it brought a single tear of joy to my eye. :weep: Maybe waxing nostalgic and letting go is for the best.
SgtAnjay 09-30-07, 09:37 PM	Yes, please, someone explain to me how the god of justice killing the god of guardians over an arranged marraiged to the goddess of Luck proposed by the goddess of love because the goddess of nobility didn't like where she lived cleans up continuity, eliminates baggage, or removes bloat? How is this a positive change, exactly? Oh, but I'm sure killing the Goddess of Magic for the third time will do the trick; after all, third time's the charm, right? So any bets on how many threads are going to have the conversation that goes.. WotC: We're going to make the sky fall. Fan1: OMG, The sky is falling! I wonder if the oceans are gonna boil. Fan2: You're afraid of change. The sky isnt even falling. Fan1: WotC told us the sky is falling. Fan2: You're being negative. Fan1: :uh-huh: WotC: The oceans are boiling. Fan1: :censored: The oceans are boiling! Fan2: Grognard Fan1::headexplo
Meldread 10-01-07, 01:17 AM	SgtAnjay- We do not even know 10% of the changes yet. It is VERY likely that the new FRCS will pick up near or around 1485, nearly 100 years in the future. The last few years of 3E FR should not be indicative of what is to come. By that time Helm could have been reborn twice and died three times, the oceans could have boiled and then reflooded, and by the way the sky already fell in 1373 DR during an event known as the Rain of Fire. No one really had a problem with it but me. Now, I can understand people not liking the changes thus far but at the same time there are some who seem to be under the perception that this is all that there is... and want to focus just on two or three major changes. We have not even seen half or a third of what is to come yet. It would be nice instead of all the constant negativity that people would instead look for ways to constructively critique things to move the setting toward a more favorable 'reboot'.
SgtAnjay 10-01-07, 02:45 AM	We dont know what all the changes are, all we know, all we can know, are what they reveal. If everything they reveal destroys something, then its their fault, not ours, if they look like destroyers. Furthermore, if I didn't like the direction the developers took for the last two years they revealed (i.e. the year of three streams blooded and the year of blue fire), why exactly would I have blind faith that the next hundred will magically be all I've ever dreamed? No, I'm going to point out it's contradictory (so Siamorphe leaving the House of the Triad upsets some previously unmentioned cosmic balance and causes this whole mess, but Ilmater, a member of the actual Triad is a-ok to move to Brightwater?!), and so grossly out of character it makes my nose bleed to contemplate outside of Cyric being right about him being the only real power in existence. I also feel justified asking someone explain to me how that convoluted narrative improves anything at all lorewise. Best of all, they paint themselves as consumate destroyers and introduce plots in outline form that are still not internally consistent, and yet you expect some sort of aura of positivity to permeate the people this rubs the wrong way? You may as well start a debate and then claim victory because your opponent is obviously too argumentative. If all they want to put out is "Mystra? Dead. Weave? Destroyed. Mages? Insane, dead, destroyed. Chosen? Dont ask, but you wont like it. Helm? Killed. Triad? Broken. Gods&Planes? Cut down like wheat. etc, etc" then who's to blame for the negativity? You want something positive? Show me the positivity coming my way, and I'll reciprocate. And in the interest of balance: New planar setup? Looking spiffy. The escape from Spellhold in the Year of Haunting? Please let them do something with this. Rise of New Netheril+New Magic System = color me intrigued. I'm also dying to know how these events will affect Iolaum, Larloch, and possibly a certain split-into-three, 12th level spell casting somebody we all know and love(?).
Flecha 10-01-07, 03:19 AM	Sorry, but I don't believe there are so good intentions behind the design of the new world. The fact they sell it as a "terrible new brginning", the one hundred years of darkness, all of that New Netheril... well, that's the kind of "cool" (cool!?) thing to sell the game to new customers, the hyper-hormonated (male) teens who can't unstick from their damned playstations type of costumer, by the way (yes, I reapeat myself, like they do). Besides, it can be easily inferred we'll get out of that "terrible" times like at the end of the "great war" of Eberron, with soon-to-be-ubiquitous-but-not-always-desired Warforged included, because the main directive of 4E settings design will be something as lame as normalizing all of them to the same aspects, no differences between settings, for ease of use from their part. And of course, that'll be very negative for all settings. Those are corporate decissions -I have yet to see once instance where that would bring good "art", so to speak-, and once they are taken nothing can change them. Well, maybe when Global Warming bring us the global cataclysm, maybe then, at the end of this old world, and the terrible beginning of the new one. ;) ... :hides:
Fabius Maximus 10-01-07, 08:34 AM	@Meldread: Why it is likely the 4e FRCS will be set in 1485? Just because the first chapter of Salvatore's new novel is set there?
Meldread 10-01-07, 09:26 AM	That and a comment made by Ed who clearly stated that the Spellplague is something prolonged. It is not something that just happens over the course of a day or a month. It happens over the course of several years. Considering that the changes we've seen thus far are perhaps just the tip of the iceberg, and taking everything into account, it does not seem feasible that the new FRCS can be set even a decade after 1385. There would just be too much fallout involved. Generally, when you begin playing in a post-apocalypse world you do not play during the apocalypse itself. You play in the aftermath.
Fabius Maximus 10-01-07, 12:33 PM	Apocalypse? Did I miss another Tearfall? Did the Selūne crash into Toril? If the Spellplague happens slowly, wouldn't it be better? You have more time to adapt to it. Why not restart the setting at the start of the 'plague, so that it feels more insidious?
Meldread 10-01-07, 03:25 PM	I don't think I was clear. When a plague first happens it is not very bad at the beginning. However, it spreads over time and gets worse and worse, killing more and more. The year 1385 is the START of the Spellplague. We do not know how long it takes for it to reach its climax, however it should get progressively worse before it gets better. Therefore, when the new FRCS comes out we would be gaming in a time period when things are just starting to calm down. The worst would be over, and we would be approaching a time to begin rebuilding.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-01-07, 03:53 PM	Ultimately, I am just interested to see how many people here at least feel interested in the new changes. Not nessessarily embracing them whole heartedly, but feel open to them and intend to purchase the 4E FRCS to at least give things a chance. Who says I'm uninterested in the new changes? If I truly didn't care, I wouldn't be so upset.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-01-07, 03:59 PM	What I think WotC is doing is looking over the setting as a whole. They took a look at it and said, "Okay, we have 20 years of bloat and baggage with a lot of rough edges. All that Realmslore is seen as "baggage and bloat"? A world with challenges, dangers, in need of heroic characters to step up and step forward to meet them head on. A world filled with mystery and secrets. How do we accomplish this?" They don't have to accomplish it, because that's what the Realms already is...
MarkusTay63 10-01-07, 04:19 PM	Apocalypse? Did I miss another Tearfall? Did the Selūne crash into Toril? If the Spellplague happens slowly, wouldn't it be better? You have more time to adapt to it. Why not restart the setting at the start of the 'plague, so that it feels more insidious?Have you actually read the last entry in the GHotR? :confused: I don't want to post the whole thing, because it is a VERY recent work and I think that would be against the rules, but... If THAT'S NOT an apocalypse, then I would really, REALLY hate to see your idea of one!!! The Weave collapses, Gods die, mages go insane, the "very substance of the world becomes mutable beneath veils of azure fire..." Dude, you must live on the 9th level of Hell if you think THAT'S a day in the park! :eek: I think it WILL be a century jump - even though I know that decision will kill the Realms for good - because they are looking to do a total and complete reset of the Realms. Look at the word 'mutable' I highlighted in the above quote -that means "maps subject to change in 4e". It won't even LOOK like the same world, so how can anyone think that it will still be the Realms we know and love? It might be a cool NEW setting, but the key word there is 'new'. I will take a look at it, out of curiousity, but aside from the logo, Drizzt, and Elminster - It's a whole new world. Now, please argue against me and give me hope, because I hope to god I'm wrong. :(
Fabius Maximus 10-01-07, 05:35 PM	No, I didn't have the opportunity yet to look into the book. And what you say sounds like the 'plague is not going to happen slowly. Yes, gods die. They already died before 1385, so what? Mages go crazy. Happened all the time. It could be disastrous for some parts of the Realms, but nothing world destroying. The 'mutable' part, though, I don't know about. Could be big, could be small. We don't know yet. I'm still in the boat that Shar's followers will not be affected by the 'plague, and that it is her who "modifies" Faerūn a bit.
Dark Wizard 10-01-07, 06:25 PM	And what you say sounds like the 'plague is not going to happen slowly. A lot of stuff already happened before the Spellplague, in fact all the deicides. Yes, gods die. They already died before 1385, so what? Mages go crazy. Happened all the time. It could be disastrous for some parts of the Realms, but nothing world destroying. Deity death is not the problem really, it's the deicides that seem off. There have been more god slayings gods than the ToT and previous history. Within the last decade of Realms history, something like 10 gods die by the hand of other gods (with more two missing). I think that beats the ToT by a wide margin and the ToT stated its deaths were due to the extreme circumstances. The recent deaths were all before the Spellplague, so what is going on to accelerate god-deaths? It seems the answer is simply forced plot due to edition change and designer arbitration. Some of the most prominent Realms gods of old died only after a long gradual decline, Amaunator (possibly reborn as Lathander), Uluitu (slumbering), Auppenser (slumbering), Sseth (slumbering). Most of them aren't even dead. The Spellplague also doesn't affect just a few spellcasters, but lots of them. So crazy mages aren't new, but now most of them will be crazy. The 'mutable' part, though, I don't know about. Could be big, could be small. We don't know yet. I'm still in the boat that Shar's followers will not be affected by the 'plague, and that it is her who "modifies" Faerūn a bit. I figured she would just take the chance to destroy stuff, since that is her goal, nihilism. In that case, maybe the upcoming vibe of FR is right on in a scenario where Shar wins.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-01-07, 09:16 PM	It might be a cool NEW setting, but the key word there is 'new'. I will take a look at it, out of curiousity, but aside from the logo, Drizzt, and Elminster - It's a whole new world. Now, please argue against me and give me hope, because I hope to god I'm wrong. :( Yes, you are! It's not true that all that will remain that we know and love is Drizzt, and Elminster, and the logo...oh... ...wait. Yes it is. Nevermind.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-01-07, 09:20 PM	Yes, gods die. They already died before 1385, so what? Mages go crazy. Happened all the time. It could be disastrous for some parts of the Realms, but nothing world destroying. Uh, thousands of mages going crazy or being destroyed in such a short period of time? Tons of gods dying off so quickly? No, this ain't something that happens all the time. And Rich Baker himself has said "not a corner of the Realms will go untouched", so this isn't something that will happen only in a couple of places. The 'mutable' part, though, I don't know about. Could be big, could be small. We don't know yet. Could be a small change, yes. Sure. Right... I'm still in the boat that Shar's followers will not be affected by the 'plague, and that it is her who "modifies" Faerūn a bit. Now here I agree with you. Of course Shar will come out on top, that is the current number one rule the FR design team is following right now.
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 02:17 AM	Like I said, more Shadowcrap. (http://www.amazon.com/Obsidian-Ridge-Citadels-Jess-Lebow/dp/0786947853/ref%3Dsr_1_35/105-7217838-8277222%3Fie%3DUTF8%26s%3Dbooks%26qid%3D 1191303695%26sr%3D1-35) http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/RealmsTombstone.jpg
Fabius Maximus 10-02-07, 08:14 AM	Markus, what does the book has to do with the Shadow Plane? So, the main event will be that all the arcanists go crazy. But how? Do they all freak out and go around murdering everyone they see or destroying whole cities or countries? I doubt it. Most of them lack the power to do this. I doubt also that most of them will be crazy for a prolonged time. They will adapt to the new situation. I don't think that it will be an earth-shattering event. So, no apocalypse.
boards 10-02-07, 08:49 AM	The problem with saying no appocalypse is that we have already recieved a glimpse of the future for RAS's new book and it really does sound like an appocalypse has happened. It could just be a possible future that has to be worked against, but then that would just be to much like Terry Brooks' Word and Void series, and I imagine he would have something to say about this. As it is, magic going out of control (due in part to Shar), wizards going mad, cities being destroyed it sounds remarkably like WoT (shaitan touching saiden driving male channelers nuts). I wonder how that will go over
Rauric 10-02-07, 11:18 AM	I am going to answer the OP question with a yes, I am interested with the 4E Realms. I hope it is set 10 years and not 100 years into the future because I want to continue with my old campaign that I stopped due to burnout. A 10 year advance will work out nicely for me. I was going to jump it ahead 5 years anyway so what is another 5?
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 11:46 AM	Markus, what does the book has to do with the Shadow Plane?Can I borrow your Rose-colored glasses? Look at the pic and read the blurb - "blotting out the sun" :eek: And have you read the premise - the evil wizard demands the princess as his bride - this really has become a setting aimed at 12 yr olds. Seriously, have you ever encountered a more childish or over-used plot in your life? I don't think that it will be an earth-shattering event. So, no apocalypse.I changed my mind about the glasses... can I borrow some of your meds instead? :cool: :P ;)
18DELTA 10-02-07, 12:02 PM	I am somewhat interested, Only if WotC pulls it off right.;)
Rauric 10-02-07, 01:38 PM	I might actually pick it up. Especially if it flavors up Tethyr a little more for me.
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 02:07 PM	Tethyr's getting nuked... I read it somewhere. I could be wrong though. Since the bad is becoming good, and the good is getting killed off, it does make some sense in a crazy, mixed-up 4e universe. I'll buy the FRCS, just to see what they did. Then I'll cry and move on. :(
SgtAnjay 10-02-07, 02:08 PM	I don't think that it will be an earth-shattering event. So, no apocalypse.The Grand History of the Realms calls the Year of Blue Fire (1385 DR) the end of the old world and terrible beginning of the new. That is earth-shattering. That is an apocalypse. Sorry.
Rauric 10-02-07, 03:33 PM	Yeah,yeah, yeah we know your thoughts already. I was hoping this would be more of a positive FR 4E thread.There are already several other threads where you can talk about how the sky is falling. ;) Let the people who are interested in the new stuff to talk about it in peace. On another note I would suggest that people who dislike reading about the Doom and Gloom threads to stop reading and posting on them. This is really just a request since you are able to speak freely about what you want on these boards. I was just hoping people could just start responding to the threads actual topic. Maybe we could all just agree to disagree about 4E FR, at least till the actual book comes out. ;)
18DELTA 10-02-07, 03:39 PM	Yeah,yeah, yeah we know your thoughts already. I was hoping this would be more of a positive FR 4E thread.There are already several other threads where you can talk about how the sky is falling. ;) Let the people who are interested in the new stuff to talk about it in peace. On another note I would suggest that people who dislike reading about the Doom and Gloom threads to stop reading and posting on them. This is really just a request since you are able to speak freely about what you want on these boards. I was just hoping people could just start responding to the threads actual topic. Maybe we could all just agree to disagree about 4E FR, at least till the actual book comes out. ;) Thats why I am on the fence with 4E FR.;)
Rauric 10-02-07, 03:55 PM	I know how people feel, it is just I have seen too much repetitive banter from both sides and it is very tiring. I guess I wish there were two threads on these boards, one for pro and anti 4E REALMS talk. I know it probably won't happen but I can dream.
MarkusTay63 10-02-07, 04:04 PM	4e Rules sound interesting and I like most of what I have read in the Design section of the site. I think EVERYONE is interested in the 4e Realms - even naysayers will have a morbid curiousity, and players of other settings (Eberron) will want to know what they may be in for. Once again, I reiterate - If the 4e FRCS is so totally awesome and amazing, then people will buy it and enjoy it regardless. Attaching the FR logo to it might actually be detrimental in this case, but whatever. It may not be FR, but if it's good people will still buy it. For better or worse, it will be one of the most eagerly anticipated FR products of all time. What they create from the husk of a dead world will determine if there will be a second 4e FR product.
Alediran 10-02-07, 04:09 PM	It is true what MT says. The first book will surely have great sales, it's the second book the one with Damocles' Sword hanging over it.
capnvan 10-03-07, 07:35 AM	I might actually pick it up. Especially if it flavors up Tethyr a little more for me. Well, Rauric, let me quote from the original description of Erlkazar, in Lands of Intrigue (TSR1159): "We've deliberately left it light on description... the only things that are cemented in official Realmslore are the place names and the king's dynastic family name." Now: "the citadel and its vast array of shadowy monsters will destroy all of Erlkazar..." Today, it's never: "the citadel will be a challenge for a party of adventurers, but, if they don't clear it out, then it might get a little stronger, but will probably fall into equilibrium with the rest of the power blocks around it, as usually happens in nature and history..." Which leaves me cold. And concerned about what changes are intended for the Realms at large.
Rauric 10-03-07, 08:18 AM	I just want a little more novel fluff on Tethyr. Just like they did to Cormyr in the beginning of the novels. I don't need locations as much as the style and feeling of the place. I want it in a good novel though. We shall see.
Markustay 10-03-07, 05:18 PM	Fear GREATLY for ANY locale you love that appears in a novel over the next year... and then kiss it goodbye. :weep: The best anyone can hope for at this point is that they forget about our favorite 'spot' - and leave it alone. Attention is a VERY bad thing right now.
Fabius Maximus 10-03-07, 08:07 PM	Can I borrow your Rose-colored glasses? Look at the pic and read the blurb - "blotting out the sun" :eek: And have you read the premise - the evil wizard demands the princess as his bride - this really has become a setting aimed at 12 yr olds. Seriously, have you ever encountered a more childish or over-used plot in your life? Yes, the "mis-understood hero coming of age" and the "ne'er-do-well boy prince coming of age" plots. Both are rather heavily featured in major Realms novel series. The only reference to the Shadow Plane are these "shadowy monsters". The "blotting-out-the-sun" part means the citadel hovering over Erlkazar. I changed my mind about the glasses... can I borrow some of your meds instead? :cool: :P ;) Everyone who touches my pills will die a horrible death! Seriously, I'm sitting on the fence here looking at the sunny side. I don't think the changes will be that disastrous.
Zanan 10-05-07, 05:01 AM	Fear GREATLY for ANY locale you love that appears in a novel over the next year... and then kiss it goodbye. :weep: The best anyone can hope for at this point is that they forget about our favorite 'spot' - and leave it alone. Attention is a VERY bad thing right now. Shar, this one is done! Over to you then! :D