Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kamekazou 08-24-06, 07:02 PM	This little annoying question irked me ever since I picked up "The Ruin" (which introduced me to the Realms) and looked at the FR logo. Why is the campaign setting called the Forgotten Realms? Is it a reference to the numerous lost civilizations (Netheril, Imaskar, Myth Drannor)?
Red_Wizard 08-24-06, 07:16 PM	We did. Orginally (as the story goes) everything was connected to everything else via portal. A portal ran from earth, to the realms and vice versa. But we have since forgotten about it's existance or even how to use/access it. When Elminster first came through to us, he met the man we all know as Ed Greenwood, and began to have lengthy dialogues with him. Ed eventually decided to begin to jot down the things he'd learned, and ultimatly began writing books to tell the varied stories of the "Forgotten Realms".
Weiser_Cain 08-24-06, 09:07 PM	A little cheese with your fantasy?
BrianCritchley 08-24-06, 10:14 PM	A little cheese with your fantasy? thats not exactly a.. unknown element of fantasy, often fantasy stories are told from the prespective of "I'm telling you a story someone told me" heck even the Tolken stories are IIRC supposidvly transcribed from "Bilbo's red book"
BadCatMan 08-24-06, 10:33 PM	Conan threatened to lop off Robert E Howard's head if he didn't write down his tales. Even The Da Vinci Code starts with that Priory of Sion guff (although to be fair, Dan Brown fell for that hoax as well).
MerrikCale 08-24-06, 10:41 PM	Its called the Forgotten Realms because Ed Greenwood thought that was a cooler name than Toril.
Grandpa Gamer 08-24-06, 10:45 PM	thats not exactly a.. unknown element of fantasy, often fantasy stories are told from the prespective of "I'm telling you a story someone told me" heck even the Tolken stories are IIRC supposidvly transcribed from "Bilbo's red book" Also, John Carter told the tales of Mars to Edgar Rice Buroughs, supposedly a distant relative of the "Gentleman of Virginia".
Lord Karsus 08-25-06, 01:24 AM	Conan threatened to lop off Robert E Howard's head if he didn't write down his tales. -This made me snicker so hard, I couldn't formulate a proper response! :D
Undying_Councillor 08-25-06, 04:59 AM	One piece of gamer lore that I was told in my first game of FR (in 1993) when I asked exactly the same question is obviously false (unless it can be verified by reputable sources) is thus: Me: Why "Forgotten" Realms? DM (and players; all nodding sagely) : Well, you see it was originally going to be beyond the northern-most region of Greyhawk beyond a great mountain range, but after the many wars across Greyhawk, the inhabitants seemingly placed a higher priority on survival and a lower one on exploration. The northern realms were thus forgotten, but later made available as another game setting. Me: I've read a little about Greyhawk; are you sure? DM: darn straight The story is still told by people who gamed with them, even 13 years on. Anyone else heard this one?
Faraer 08-25-06, 06:57 AM	Never heard that particular one. Someone on this board recently had heard you got to Oerth by going north from Faerûn. Neither true, of course, since both settings were conceived independently, the Realms earlier.
NeriandalFreit 08-25-06, 07:55 AM	We did. Orginally (as the story goes) everything was connected to everything else via portal. A portal ran from earth, to the realms and vice versa. But we have since forgotten about it's existance or even how to use/access it. When Elminster first came through to us, he met the man we all know as Ed Greenwood, and began to have lengthy dialogues with him. Ed eventually decided to begin to jot down the things he'd learned, and ultimatly began writing books to tell the varied stories of the "Forgotten Realms". This is the tale that I have read many times over, and I believe to be the true one, as it's said that even a coupld of the Sisters and Khelben have came to Earth-Realm as well.
BrennonGoldeye 08-25-06, 09:57 AM	Yes, a few other Archmages have been on Terra. The Simbul, Khelban, tehe, even Mordenkainen. I only include Mordy because one of my funniest remembrances is of him realizing the spoon he was eating his soup with(split-pea if I recall correctly) was actually our favorite crazy Archmagette shapechanged. He lost his appetite rather quickly... Remember also that even the Elves had forgotten about Aber-toril. There were Tel'Quessir here already when the Green, Avriel, Lythari first showed up. Finally, it just sounds cooler than "Over yonder in BFE":D
sillaric_culdanin 08-25-06, 10:14 AM	I only include Mordy because one of my funniest remembrances is of him realizing the spoon he was eating his soup with(split-pea if I recall correctly) was actually our favorite crazy Archmagette shapechanged. He lost his appetite rather quickly... Actually, the archmage that was using the Simbul-spoon was Dalamar the Dark (from Krynn). He tried a spell on the spoon but ended up turning his dinner to ash instead (and it was spagetti, made by Lheao, who was hiding inside a suit of armor). Dalamar even asks a bitter question along the lines of "Is every archmage of Toril mightier than me...". Very funny scene, the whole article was written by Ed I believe...The Wizards Three was the title I believe.
Raelan_Harpell 08-25-06, 03:33 PM	AFAIK, the reason it was named the "Forgotten Realms" was because of the rich history created by Ed Greenwood as part of the background of the setting. Countless realms lie in ruins beneath the rubble of centuries, and remnants of their works often turn up unexpectedly and either make the discoverer very rich or cause no end of trouble for anyone in the region. The best Realms history book released since 3E is definitely Lost Empires of Faerun. I recommend checking it out if you'd like to know where the name of the campaign setting came from. If you'd like more information on Realmsian history, I'd suggest checking out such 2E products as Empires of the Shining Sea (Calimshan), Lands of Intrigue (Tethyr and Amn), the City of Splendors boxed set (Waterdeep), The North boxed set (the North), Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves (Cormanthyr, Myth Drannor, and elven history in general), and Netheril: Empire of Magic (um...Netheril, maybe?). Various other 2E regional supplements also generally have history sections, but the ones just listed are probably the most detailed and relevant if you want to have a look at the Realms' past. I may have left a few out, but those are the ones that spring to mind immediately. I haven't had a gaming group for the last year and a half, so unfortunately I've had no need to brush up on my Realmslore of late. :(
420 08-25-06, 04:02 PM	OK, I read all these posts and I didn't see anyone mention this one: From what I remember, around the time that the Forgotten Realms were first introduced, it was a previously undiscovered world encased in a crystal sphere. It was an unknown (i.e. "forgotten") Prime Material Plane that had been isolated in its own seperate cosmology until the discovery of a portal linking it to another Prime (possibly Oerth). I never played D&D in those days but my older cousins seemed to have a good grip on the whole business. -420
Raelan_Harpell 08-25-06, 04:17 PM	Negative on that. Spelljammer wasn't around when the Forgotten Realms' name was coined. I also checked my copy of the Realmspace accessory (which was, in reality, a Spelljammer accessory and didn't have the feel of the Realms) and nothing of that nature was mentioned.
Faraer 08-25-06, 05:05 PM	Red_Wizard had it right the first time.Why include 'real world' gods in the Realms at all? Well, that's the "Forgotten" part of the name. I envisioned a multiverse of many, many parallel worlds (alternate, side-by-side Prime Material Planes, if you prefer), with Middle-Earth, Narnia, and many other favorite fantasy settings among them, all linked together with gates. There was once much travel between them (hence our own world's legends of dragons, etc., from before the links to other places became 'forgotten'), including huge migrations...until, inevitably, power groups of sinister and formidable beings fought to control access to/use of the gates.It isn't a reference to ruined civilizations, and it's nothing to do with Spelljammer, which the Realms preceded by 22 years.
BadCatMan 08-25-06, 09:47 PM	Before I ever got into the whole D&D gig, I assumed that the Forgotten Realms were a lost continent from the Dragonlance setting, while Eberron was a newly discovered continent. :confused: I think these must be common misconceptions that people get.
Digitalelf 08-26-06, 12:49 AM	Well, Ed himself had been quoted saying that "we here on Earth forgot about the Realms". That's the version of the story I'm standing by ;) However, I have heard another reason as of yet unmentioned here on this thread... The Realms had been around for years, and Mr. Greenwood tried to get his world published for a while, but TSR's baby was Greyhawk and wanted nothing of it (even Dragonlance at this point was still a series of modules and not a full blown world). And it was The actual "Forgotten Realms" that were "forgotten" by TSR until they went looking for a new setting... More than likely, a bunch of hog-wash. But an interesting story non-the-less IMHO :cool:
Zevox 08-26-06, 01:00 AM	Yep, Red_Wizard's reply is the correct one. Thats why the setting bears that name. One piece of gamer lore that I was told in my first game of FR (in 1993) when I asked exactly the same question is obviously false (unless it can be verified by reputable sources) is thus: Me: Why "Forgotten" Realms? DM (and players; all nodding sagely) : Well, you see it was originally going to be beyond the northern-most region of Greyhawk beyond a great mountain range, but after the many wars across Greyhawk, the inhabitants seemingly placed a higher priority on survival and a lower one on exploration. The northern realms were thus forgotten, but later made available as another game setting. Me: I've read a little about Greyhawk; are you sure? DM: darn straight The story is still told by people who gamed with them, even 13 years on. Anyone else heard this one? Never heard that one before, but you're right, its obviously false. Ed was writing short stories set in the Realms before D&D and Greyhawk existed, and the Realms were never supposed to be a part of Greyhawk. heck even the Tolken stories are IIRC supposidvly transcribed from "Bilbo's red book" Yep. Thats why most of Arda's history isn't written in novel form like The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were, but more like a history book in the form of The Silmarillion. Tolkien set his world up as though he was simply translating the tales from that book, which is why the most detailed, complete stories were Bilbo's and Frodo's. Of course identifying the book as thiers and using it as an excuse for why those were in novel form was an excuse made after he wrote those, but he honestly from the start set it up as him translating ancient tales rather than as stories he was just making up. IIRC it was to make them read like the Norse myths he so enjoyed and drew inspiration from. Zevox
420 08-26-06, 02:48 AM	Negative on that. Spelljammer wasn't around when the Forgotten Realms' name was coined. I also checked my copy of the Realmspace accessory (which was, in reality, a Spelljammer accessory and didn't have the feel of the Realms) and nothing of that nature was mentioned. Wasn't Spelljammer an offshoot of Forgotten Realms? The lost empire of Netheril invented Spelljammer ships. -420
Faraer 08-26-06, 06:38 AM	The Realms had been around for years, and Mr. Greenwood tried to get his world published for a while, but TSR's baby was Greyhawk and wanted nothing of itThis isn't true. What happened was that TSR was looking to publish a setting; Jeff Grubb rang Ed up in 1986 and asked, about his Dragon articles, "Do you have a complete, detailed fantasy world...or do you make it up as you go along?" I replied, "Yes, and--yes." (Whereupon he said, "Good, send it!" and history was made and all that, but that's another tale for another time...) Spelljammer was conceived independently of the Realms by Jeff Grubb; Spelljamming in the Realms is all retcon (though the Realms had skyships much earlier).
BrennonGoldeye 08-26-06, 10:37 AM	Actually, the archmage that was using the Simbul-spoon was Dalamar the Dark (from Krynn). He tried a spell on the spoon but ended up turning his dinner to ash instead (and it was spagetti, made by Lheao, who was hiding inside a suit of armor). Dalamar even asks a bitter question along the lines of "Is every archmage of Toril mightier than me...". Very funny scene, the whole article was written by Ed I believe...The Wizards Three was the title I believe. Thanks much sillaric_culdanin, I knew there was something a little askew in this old brain. I think I mixed 2 stories into one, gotta go get those old Dragons outa the lockbox.:)
The Ubbergeek 08-26-06, 11:08 AM	Spelljammer was conceived independently of the Realms by Jeff Grubb; Spelljamming in the Realms is all retcon (though the Realms had skyships much earlier). Didn't Mystara, the very first (or second, if you see Blackmoor as a full setting) setting of D&D, back in OD&D days, had skyships too? They were shown in the Shadow over Mystara arcade game.
420 08-26-06, 05:00 PM	Spelljammer was conceived independently of the Realms by Jeff Grubb; Spelljamming in the Realms is all retcon (though the Realms had skyships much earlier). What year? From Arcane Age: Netheril - Empire of Magic (copywrite 1996) Yeoman's Loft When Netheril began investigating Realmspace in 2795 NY, Yeoman’s Loft became the main port of call for Netherese spelljammers. Great docking platforms were built to accommodate the influx of spelljamming vessels, standing out like arms stretching into the night sky. Great wealth entered the groundling city, but spelljamming proved an even greater expense. In 2895 NY, the archwizards decided that the risk was far too great to justify the tremendous expense of lost ships and murdered crews. Spelljamming was officially abandoned at that point in time, but Yeoman’s Loft remained. The Shadowed Age (3163-3519): Yeoman’s Loft suffered a major loss of population and business. Only the 20,000 or so remaining inhabitants served the five private ventures who continued to pursue spelljamming. It was grueling and expensive work that all of the other enclaves and cities chose to ignore. The Fall and Beyond (3520+): The massive docking structure that was constructed for the spelljamming vessels exploded and collapsed when Mystryl sacrificed herself. Four spelljamming vessels that were currently docked likewise suffered a similar fate, their helms detonating. Thousands died as the massive structure collapsed into the city. -420
Faraer 08-26-06, 06:18 PM	Maybe, I don't remember if there are skyships in the DA series, which still confuses me as to what in them's by Dave Arneson and what by David Ritchie. 420, I mean earlier in the our-world design history ("Sailors on the Sea of Air" in Dragon #124 at the latest, and probably long before). I don't know when the first airships come in the Realms timeline.
420 08-28-06, 10:31 PM	420, I mean earlier in the our-world design history ("Sailors on the Sea of Air" in Dragon #124 at the latest, and probably long before). I don't know when the first airships come in the Realms timeline. What year? From Arcane Age: Netheril - Empire of Magic (copywrite 1996) Yes, I meant what year in the real world. 1996 is still a ways away in the Realms. -420
Weiser_Cain 08-29-06, 03:08 PM	If I'd heard any of these various origin stories up front I believe I would have put back my first dnd book.
Lord Karsus 08-30-06, 03:35 AM	If I'd heard any of these various origin stories up front I believe I would have put back my first dnd book. -See, it's a good thing you're learning everything very belatedly, eh? Oh, and I would have done the same thing, in all likelihood.
The Ubbergeek 08-30-06, 09:21 AM	And you would have missed a great game. ;) It's hard to make anything new. And fantasy means a lot of things....
BrennonGoldeye 08-30-06, 10:26 AM	The word "new" is one of the few English words that has a meaning but no actual example.:)