Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dargoth 06-19-03, 01:53 AM	RA Salvatore mentions this him in the prelude of The Crystal Shard "Al Dimeneira an angelic being of tremendous power. Al Dimeneira banished Errtu back to the abyss with a single word" Now judging by that hes more powerful than a Balor so does this mean Al Dimeneira is the good equivelant of a Demon Prince or Arch Devil?
cwslyclgh 06-19-03, 02:09 AM	I was pretty sure that he was a solar. remember when Rob wrote the book errtu was a type 6 demon with 8+8 HD... a Solar in 1e was one of the most powerful monsters in the game (always had 177 hp... had a list of spell like abilities as long as your arm, with wish on the list... basicaly was an uber-buttkicker) and would have outclassed Errtu like he was a red-headed stepchild.
ElGrecoETAC 06-19-03, 02:14 AM	Either way you cut it, and regardless of edition, Errtu was a Balor. Solars were always more powerful than Balors, and certainly fit the profile of "Angelic beings of tremendous power". That, and their description in the Monster Manual would lead me to believe Al-Dimeinera was a Solar.
Masakado 06-19-03, 10:04 AM	Now judging by that hes more powerful than a Balor so does this mean Al Dimeneira is the good equivelant of a Demon Prince or Arch Devil? Probably not since he was powerful to banish Erttu, but not powerful enough to destroy the Crystal Shard. If he were as powerful as a Demon Prince, or an Arch Devil, it's safe to assume that he (with a bit of effort perhaps) should have had the personal power to destroy the Shard. Not only wasn't Al Dimeinera unable to destroy the Shard, but it burned & injured him as well. I'm leaning on the side of those that are voting "1ed Solar."
ruleslawyer 06-19-03, 02:13 PM	Originally posted by Masakado Probably not since he was powerful to banish Erttu, but not powerful enough to destroy the Crystal Shard. If he were as powerful as a Demon Prince, or an Arch Devil, it's safe to assume that he (with a bit of effort perhaps) should have had the personal power to destroy the Shard. Not only wasn't Al Dimeinera unable to destroy the Shard, but it burned & injured him as well. I'm leaning on the side of those that are voting "1ed Solar." I'd agree with "solar" (or even planetar!), but I'd disagree that a being of demon prince/archdevil power would have the ability to destroy a major artifact. Look at some of the conditions for destroying these things: Using them to slay a major deity, traveling into the past to obliterate the secret of their creation, etc etc. IMHO, major artifacts are supposed to be beyond even the power of deities to destroy by purely physical/magical means.
Masakado 06-19-03, 02:33 PM	Originally posted by ruleslawyer I'd agree with "solar" (or even planetar!), but I'd disagree that a being of demon prince/archdevil power would have the ability to destroy a major artifact. Look at some of the conditions for destroying these things: Using them to slay a major deity, traveling into the past to obliterate the secret of their creation, etc etc. IMHO, major artifacts are supposed to be beyond even the power of deities to destroy by purely physical/magical means. Actually, if we're still talking about matters in a 1ed context as we were with the demon & the "angelic being," then the ease of the destruction of the artifact would depend on the item in the same 1ed context. The "how to destroy" lists in the old school DMG mention everything means ranging from the fantastic (buried under the roots of the World Tree) to the seemingly mundane (crushed under the foot of a humble ant). . . . . . [spoiler space] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Considering the way that the Shard was ultimately dealt with (Darkness & Red Dragon Breath did the trick), I don't think it would have been beyond the ken of a very powerful planar being (Demon Prince, Arch Devil status) to break the Shard into tiny bits. The Shard couldn't have been that major an artifact to be destroyed in the manner it was, IMO. Ever notice that the Crystal Shard wasn't the only world-threatening green gem that came to being in the 80's that was powered by light, & was destroyed, more or less, by a combination darkness & flame? *cough* Red Sonja: The Movie *cough* ;) Nor the only sentient, evil green gem / artifact to spring from the 80's. *cough* Heavy Metal *cough* ;) . . . . . . . . . . [/spolier space] . . . . . . . . . . . . It may take some effort on the entity's part, but it could be done, under the old rules, if that were the suggested alternate means of destruction.
Ideki 06-20-03, 11:52 AM	Is Errtu actually a balor? Judging from the description given in The Crystal Shard, I would have guessed he was a nalfanshee (sp?).
Masakado 06-20-03, 12:40 PM	Originally posted by Ideki Is Errtu actually a balor? Judging from the description given in The Crystal Shard, I would have guessed he was a nalfanshee (sp?). Errtu is indeed a Balor or if you prefer, Type VI Demon. When the book was written, 1ed was still in effect as far as game mechanics were concerned. There were only six of them known to exist in 1ed, & Balor and Errtu were two of them.
Eddster 06-20-03, 02:55 PM	Have there ever been any stats published for either of them in the sourcebooks?
Kuje31 06-20-03, 03:06 PM	Originally posted by Eddster Have there ever been any stats published for either of them in the sourcebooks? Villian's Lorebook has a write up for Errtu. It's 2e though.
Masakado 06-20-03, 03:21 PM	Originally posted by Eddster Have there ever been any stats published for either of them in the sourcebooks? There were only six Type VI demons in 1ed & there stats should have been identical. Nowadays, they are the Tana'ri, sub-class Balor, and there appears to be more than six of them. They are still pretty much at the top of the Abyssal food chain, though, save the inclusion of the various Tana'ri Princes & Lords.