Why are they called Forgotten [Archive] - Wizards Community

Why are they called Forgotten [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
WizO_BigSister
02-24-04, 02:02 PM "Why are the Forgotten Realms called forgotten?"

I know this question has come up several times in the past, but the threads have been pruned. I myself don't know the answer so can you help me out.
Cunning Linguist
02-24-04, 02:05 PM Ed saw Faerun as a place once linked to earth, but the way to get there is forgotten.. so it's the Forgotten Realms.
Morka
02-24-04, 02:09 PM That's why the Faerunian Pantheon was separated from the multiverse in 3E?
:D :rofl: :D
Bifford
02-24-04, 03:45 PM I thought it was a title in retrospect, as if the world of Toril and everything about it no longer exists ("a long time ago, on a planet far, far away"). This gives the feeling that the world of Faerun is a very special trove of secret wonders, and that players are privileged to enjoy them.
Mirtek
02-24-04, 05:00 PM Maybe bBecause neither Toril nor Toril's (single spheric) deities did ever matter much in the large picture?

Reading Planescape supplements Toril is always mentioned as some backwater world about which the high-ups on the planes don't really care.
Faraer
02-24-04, 05:22 PM Just today, Ed said (talking of using Castlemorn in the Realms),You could also do what I did in the ‘home’ Realms campaign, as outlined in the article I did in issue 37 of DRAGON: have it as one of many parallel Prime Material Planes linked by gates (3rd Edition: portals). This, by the way, is where the “Forgotten” part of “Forgotten Realms” came from: we people of real-world Earth have ‘forgotten’ the once-widely-used gates to Toril, which gave us our legends of vampires, dragons, et al.
WizO_BigSister
02-24-04, 06:07 PM Thanks for that quote Faraer ... exactly what I was hunting for

:)
Thrudjelmer
02-24-04, 06:25 PM And here I was under the impression that the "Forgotten" Realms were all the various ancient kingdoms and city-states lost in the mists of time.
Lashan
02-24-04, 06:44 PM If you get a chance to read the old Dragon magazine articles by Ed Greenwood, you can understand the whole "forgotten" thing better. The begining of all the articles is written by Mr. Greenwood with the illusion that he really has met Elminster. Elminster has crossed over to our world and talked to Ed on many occasions. Ed is always trying to tape record Elmister to get more and more realmslore from him. These early articles is what got me interested in the FR even before there was an official product out. Elminster mentions how the paths to his world have all been forgotten by our side. That's how Ed got the title for his game world.
Kuje31
02-24-04, 06:55 PM Originally posted by Lashan
If you get a chance to read the old Dragon magazine articles by Ed Greenwood, you can understand the whole "forgotten" thing better. The begining of all the articles is written by Mr. Greenwood with the illusion that he really has met Elminster. Elminster has crossed over to our world and talked to Ed on many occasions. Ed is always trying to tape record Elmister to get more and more realmslore from him. These early articles is what got me interested in the FR even before there was an official product out. Elminster mentions how the paths to his world have all been forgotten by our side. That's how Ed got the title for his game world.

Don't forget El also has a portal/gate to Ed's study in El's Safehold that exists in Realmspace. :) I always got a kick out of that in the Realmspace supplement.
Thrudjelmer
02-24-04, 08:04 PM As do I.
Erik_Steel
02-24-04, 08:27 PM So, is that were all the "D&D geeks have mental problem" type stereotype comes from?
Thrudjelmer
02-24-04, 10:18 PM Yes... they come from the "forgotten" portals that link us to Ed's imaginative fantasy world.

No, no... that's not right. That stereotype (as well as a number of others) comes from thelarge majority who don't understand the entertainment value of pretending to be a fantasy hero (or anti-hero in some cases) and rolling dice to determine whether or not our pretend character can slay mythical monsters, acquire fake treasure, and save the non-existant kingdom/world from evil.

Either they don't understand the entertainment value, or some people get too enthused about their games and non-gamers mistake it for some sort of insanity.
niss'tyre
02-25-04, 05:39 AM Well put Thrudjelmer. How long ago did Ed put articles in Dragon about the Forgotten Realms? Have any issue numbers on those?

And one other thing... does anybody else think that the portrait of Big Sister looks alot like Bjork? Inquiring minds want to know... :inlove: :love: :inlove:
Morka
02-25-04, 08:59 AM There is not only the portal leading from Elminster to Ed. There is also the gods from Babylon, Assyria and Egypt who traveled and became gods in Unther & Mulhorand.
:tiphat:

There are other gods that were taken from old pantheons, like Tyr from Norse Pantheon, or Tyche from Greek pantheon. Are they the same gods who traveled (like the Egyptian pantheon), or are they inspired by our past pantheons? :confused:
Faraer
02-25-04, 10:42 AM Well put Thrudjelmer. How long ago did Ed put articles in Dragon about the Forgotten Realms? Have any issue numbers on those?Ed's Dragon articles roughly up to the publication of the 1987 Forgotten Realms Campaign Set are in #30 (Oct 1979), 32, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 46, 47, 49, 52, 54, 55, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 69, 70, 72, 74, 75, 76, 77, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 99, 100, 101, 102, 104, 105, 106, 107, 110, 112, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, and 122. And from then through to the current "Elminster's Guide to the Realms" column.
Lashan
02-25-04, 12:03 PM I got my first Dragon subscription some time in the early 1980's when the issues were around the 70's. There wasn't a boxed set for years until the late 1980's. I always loved the articles, even before I fully understood what the FR were.
Neo2151
03-18-04, 04:39 AM Originally posted by Morka
There is not only the portal leading from Elminster to Ed. There is also the gods from Babylon, Assyria and Egypt who traveled and became gods in Unther & Mulhorand.
:tiphat:

There are other gods that were taken from old pantheons, like Tyr from Norse Pantheon, or Tyche from Greek pantheon. Are they the same gods who traveled (like the Egyptian pantheon), or are they inspired by our past pantheons? :confused:

As far as I know Morka, they are the SAME gods from these mythologies. I don't really have anything to back that up but if they're just inspired... they're about as close as carbon-copies of them.
bahamut_0
03-18-04, 05:05 AM Hmmm, this is an interesting thread, you learn something new every day :)

Thanks for the post Faraer.
Mr. VanderMeer
03-18-04, 05:37 AM I believe it has been written that these gods are the same and have travelled over.
Lashan
03-18-04, 11:42 AM If you want to find out about the Old Empire gods coming over, you should look at the Beacon of Ra artifact entry in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. I do believe that is what it was called, and if not, then something similiar.

Basically, the Imaskari needed a slave race, so they jumped through portals and yanked races of people (much like in Stargate). The people who were enslaved beseeched their gods. Ao allowed these prayers to be sent to their pantheon and allowed these gods entry into this world. The gods travelled through time/space with the Beacon leading them. From there, they caused the uprising which threw down the Imaskari empire. These gods had living avatars that stayed on in the world and ruled the Old Empires. Some died in the Orcgate wars, some went mad, and all sorts of stuff happened during ToT. With the Unther god Gilgemea (sp?) dying, Mulhorand invaded Unther. Their idea is that they are incorporating their brothers before some other nation tries to conquer them (since they don't have their god to watch over them anymore).

Correct me if I am wrong, as I am shooting from the hip here.
Mirtek
03-18-04, 12:10 PM Originally posted by Lashan
Basically, the Imaskari needed a slave race, so they jumped through portals and yanked races of people (much like in Stargate). The people who were enslaved beseeched their gods. Ao allowed these prayers to be sent to their pantheon and allowed these gods entry into this world. The gods travelled through time/space with the Beacon leading them. From there, they caused the uprising which threw down the Imaskari empire. These gods had living avatars that stayed on in the world and ruled the Old Empires. Some died in the Orcgate wars, some went mad, and all sorts of stuff happened during ToT. With the Unther god Gilgemea (sp?) dying, Mulhorand invaded Unther. Their idea is that they are incorporating their brothers before some other nation tries to conquer them (since they don't have their god to watch over them anymore).
Correct me if I am wrong, as I am shooting from the hip here.
Correct. Some other details: The Imaskari constructed a magical barrier to keep the gods from follwoing their people
These barrier prevented the gods from etablishing divine connecting
Ao offered them a deal: Send a single empowered avatar to Toril to work on the barrier from within
If an avatar was destroyed he was just reabsorbed by the deity but her connection to Toril was lost forever
After the ToT Ao decided to lift the barrier
The surving avatars were absorbed by these deities could finally make a true connection to the Realms

Originally posted by Morka
There are other gods that were taken from old pantheons, like Tyr from Norse Pantheon, or Tyche from Greek pantheon. Are they the same gods who traveled (like the Egyptian pantheon), or are they inspired by our past pantheons? :confused:
They are the same. On Hallowed Grounds tells how they came to become part of the pantheon of Toril

As far as I recall: The finnish pantheon was dying and Mielikki wanted to saver herself
Loviatar followed Mielikki whom she hated
Tyr saw his role in his home pantheon ursuped by fellow gods and needed a new place

Oghma and Silvanus are the same as in the celtic pantheon, but AFAIK no reason is given for their reasons, they just chose to be worshipped on Toril in addition to being in their home pantheons
Brahzs M'ahnkei
03-18-04, 12:46 PM Does anyone remember a Dragon Mag. article in which Elminster and the high sage/ godlike wizard from Greyhawk (sorry his name is not coming to me) met? I am not familier with the "interview with Elminster" articles that Mr. Greenwood used to write up, but the setting, as I remember it, sounds like it may have taken place in Ed's Earth-based study. The two drank soda and discussed whether or not they should invite Dalamar (re: Dragonlance) to this meeting as he was the "new" head of Black Robes.

Ring a bell anyone?
Faraer
03-18-04, 12:52 PM Yes, the "Magic in the Evening"/"Wizards Three" articles are in Dragon #185, 188, 196, 200, 211, 219, 238, 242, and 246. They take place in Ed's house in Canada.
cwslyclgh
03-18-04, 01:03 PM Mordenkainen is the name you are looking for.
Erik_Steel
03-19-04, 02:00 AM Originally posted by cwslyclgh
Mordenkainen is the name you are looking for.

Wasn't that Gary Gygax's first character?
Mr. VanderMeer
03-19-04, 05:04 AM probably not his first character, but definitely his favorite!
Maximillian Hellspont
03-30-04, 02:01 PM Originally posted by Mirtek

They are the same. On Hallowed Grounds tells how they came to become part of the pantheon of Toril

What is On Hallowed Grounds? Is it an FR sourcebook? Any idea of when it was published?

Thanks!
trentlanthier
03-30-04, 02:31 PM Was that the article that Elminster gave Dalamar from Dragonlance a marshmellow??

And met with Mordy from Greyhawk??
Kuje31
03-30-04, 02:48 PM Originally posted by Maximillian Hellspont
What is On Hallowed Grounds? Is it an FR sourcebook? Any idea of when it was published?

Thanks!

On Hallowed Ground is a Planescape sourcebook printed in 96
Orion the Raven
04-07-04, 07:45 AM Supposedly, at some point in the distant past, the Realms and Earth were connected, but were seperated by something or someone into two different worlds. If you look far enough into the past of the realms, you get all kinds of neat stuff on the realms, AO, the Shadevari, Shar, and such. It is very interesting how all this has mutated over the years into the current realms as published.
Faraer
04-07-04, 07:48 AM No, the connections still exist, as dozens of sources document, they're just largely forgotten.
Orion the Raven
04-07-04, 07:52 AM I know the connections are still there. I was refering to the two worlds actually being one, as in coexisting as one unified world on the same plane of existance. A fact that I do not know if it is still true or not.
Faraer
04-07-04, 07:54 AM That was never the idea. Same plane of existence perhaps, but not the same world.
Orion the Raven
04-07-04, 08:20 AM The notion was expressedly mentioned in some past sourcebook or magazine. Its been years, so I cannot give you the exact refrence, but I know that at least at one point, this was "the story".
Mirtek
04-07-04, 04:50 PM Before 3e all worlds where on the same plane. There was only one single prime material plane and all worlds were just different planets on this one and only material plane
guru7892
06-09-04, 10:32 PM ok here we go,
the fallowing is a list of modern day counter parts to there faerunian, umm counterpart...

anyway go to page 231 in your fearunian guide
look at faerun, now look at a world map, now look at greenland, now look back at faerun, see somthing strange?

now look at zakhara, now look at antartica
now look at kara-tur, that is a deformed africa (beyond reconition)
now look at maztica, look at the unknown areas to the north and sounth, now look at north and south america

and east of kara-tur, you see austrailia
and the yellow sea from the north you ser russia, and the west japan

yup, you could probably find more similarities, but trust me, faerun is the earth, just twisted. so if they wherent connected it would seem like they should be.
WaaMatt
06-18-05, 05:07 PM I was under the impression that a) int he FRCS it says that to get from one cosmology to the next you use Toril's Plane of Shadow, not Astral Plane and b) when a deity goes to another cosmology it basically clones itself. In some 3e/3.5e supplement there is a passage about deities being killed off in one cosmology not affecting their other selves elsewhere.

(Might explain some things with what I've accidentally read about Lolth. I've only read book 1 of WotSQ!)

So, I wouldn't say deities from other worlds and pantheons moved to Toril. I'd say they sent copies of themselves to spread their influence and expand their fanbase. Or, worshippers. Whatever. :D

Are we supposed to pretend Planescape and Spelljammers never existed for 3e FR? You can still acquire plenty of written material (such as the Realms of... anthologies) and see reference to stuff that's not around anymore (ie, Spelljammers). I could care less either way, but I was just wondering if there's any kind of official statement on the matter.

I always liked the idea that all worlds exist in one universe found within a prime material plane, but I also really, really like the way the FR cosmology is set up. So... I dunno where I'm going with this anymore.
Faraer
06-18-05, 06:06 PM I don't even think it matters what the current rules say about methods of worldwalking. The fact is that it's a basic premise of the Realms, and the passage of gods and people into the Realms is entrenched in Realmslore. That doesn't get superseded by mere rules artifacts that will change with the next edition of the game, especially ones in non-Realms books.

Both Planescape elements (Sigil, frex) and Spelljammer elements are mentioned in recent Realms sources, though not stressed, so there's no reason to 'pretend Planescape and Spelljammers never existed'.
WaaMatt
06-18-05, 06:18 PM OK.

But as a note, I never considered the mention of getting from Toril's cosmology to other cosmologies by means of Toril's Plane of Shadow a rule. It seems much more like a fluff element to me. As does the whole thing about deities essentially cloning themselves into new cosmologies. That one has a rules side to it for the current edition of the game, one that I can't imagine would drastically change if the game saw a new edition, but... I see your point.
The WarOverlord
06-23-05, 01:15 AM Just today, Ed said (talking of using Castlemorn in the Realms),

I am so trying not to sing "Stones" right now :rolleyes:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WizO_BigSister 02-24-04, 02:02 PM	"Why are the Forgotten Realms called forgotten?" I know this question has come up several times in the past, but the threads have been pruned. I myself don't know the answer so can you help me out.
Cunning Linguist 02-24-04, 02:05 PM	Ed saw Faerun as a place once linked to earth, but the way to get there is forgotten.. so it's the Forgotten Realms.
Morka 02-24-04, 02:09 PM	That's why the Faerunian Pantheon was separated from the multiverse in 3E? :D :rofl: :D
Bifford 02-24-04, 03:45 PM	I thought it was a title in retrospect, as if the world of Toril and everything about it no longer exists ("a long time ago, on a planet far, far away"). This gives the feeling that the world of Faerun is a very special trove of secret wonders, and that players are privileged to enjoy them.
Mirtek 02-24-04, 05:00 PM	Maybe bBecause neither Toril nor Toril's (single spheric) deities did ever matter much in the large picture? Reading Planescape supplements Toril is always mentioned as some backwater world about which the high-ups on the planes don't really care.
Faraer 02-24-04, 05:22 PM	Just today, Ed said (talking of using Castlemorn in the Realms),You could also do what I did in the ‘home’ Realms campaign, as outlined in the article I did in issue 37 of DRAGON: have it as one of many parallel Prime Material Planes linked by gates (3rd Edition: portals). This, by the way, is where the “Forgotten” part of “Forgotten Realms” came from: we people of real-world Earth have ‘forgotten’ the once-widely-used gates to Toril, which gave us our legends of vampires, dragons, et al.
WizO_BigSister 02-24-04, 06:07 PM	Thanks for that quote Faraer ... exactly what I was hunting for :)
Thrudjelmer 02-24-04, 06:25 PM	And here I was under the impression that the "Forgotten" Realms were all the various ancient kingdoms and city-states lost in the mists of time.
Lashan 02-24-04, 06:44 PM	If you get a chance to read the old Dragon magazine articles by Ed Greenwood, you can understand the whole "forgotten" thing better. The begining of all the articles is written by Mr. Greenwood with the illusion that he really has met Elminster. Elminster has crossed over to our world and talked to Ed on many occasions. Ed is always trying to tape record Elmister to get more and more realmslore from him. These early articles is what got me interested in the FR even before there was an official product out. Elminster mentions how the paths to his world have all been forgotten by our side. That's how Ed got the title for his game world.
Kuje31 02-24-04, 06:55 PM	Originally posted by Lashan If you get a chance to read the old Dragon magazine articles by Ed Greenwood, you can understand the whole "forgotten" thing better. The begining of all the articles is written by Mr. Greenwood with the illusion that he really has met Elminster. Elminster has crossed over to our world and talked to Ed on many occasions. Ed is always trying to tape record Elmister to get more and more realmslore from him. These early articles is what got me interested in the FR even before there was an official product out. Elminster mentions how the paths to his world have all been forgotten by our side. That's how Ed got the title for his game world. Don't forget El also has a portal/gate to Ed's study in El's Safehold that exists in Realmspace. :) I always got a kick out of that in the Realmspace supplement.
Thrudjelmer 02-24-04, 08:04 PM	As do I.
Erik_Steel 02-24-04, 08:27 PM	So, is that were all the "D&D geeks have mental problem" type stereotype comes from?
Thrudjelmer 02-24-04, 10:18 PM	Yes... they come from the "forgotten" portals that link us to Ed's imaginative fantasy world. No, no... that's not right. That stereotype (as well as a number of others) comes from thelarge majority who don't understand the entertainment value of pretending to be a fantasy hero (or anti-hero in some cases) and rolling dice to determine whether or not our pretend character can slay mythical monsters, acquire fake treasure, and save the non-existant kingdom/world from evil. Either they don't understand the entertainment value, or some people get too enthused about their games and non-gamers mistake it for some sort of insanity.
niss'tyre 02-25-04, 05:39 AM	Well put Thrudjelmer. How long ago did Ed put articles in Dragon about the Forgotten Realms? Have any issue numbers on those? And one other thing... does anybody else think that the portrait of Big Sister looks alot like Bjork? Inquiring minds want to know... :inlove: :love: :inlove:
Morka 02-25-04, 08:59 AM	There is not only the portal leading from Elminster to Ed. There is also the gods from Babylon, Assyria and Egypt who traveled and became gods in Unther & Mulhorand. :tiphat: There are other gods that were taken from old pantheons, like Tyr from Norse Pantheon, or Tyche from Greek pantheon. Are they the same gods who traveled (like the Egyptian pantheon), or are they inspired by our past pantheons? :confused:
Faraer 02-25-04, 10:42 AM	Well put Thrudjelmer. How long ago did Ed put articles in Dragon about the Forgotten Realms? Have any issue numbers on those?Ed's Dragon articles roughly up to the publication of the 1987 Forgotten Realms Campaign Set are in #30 (Oct 1979), 32, 37, 39, 40, 41, 43, 46, 47, 49, 52, 54, 55, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 69, 70, 72, 74, 75, 76, 77, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 99, 100, 101, 102, 104, 105, 106, 107, 110, 112, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, and 122. And from then through to the current "Elminster's Guide to the Realms" column.
Lashan 02-25-04, 12:03 PM	I got my first Dragon subscription some time in the early 1980's when the issues were around the 70's. There wasn't a boxed set for years until the late 1980's. I always loved the articles, even before I fully understood what the FR were.
Neo2151 03-18-04, 04:39 AM	Originally posted by Morka There is not only the portal leading from Elminster to Ed. There is also the gods from Babylon, Assyria and Egypt who traveled and became gods in Unther & Mulhorand. :tiphat: There are other gods that were taken from old pantheons, like Tyr from Norse Pantheon, or Tyche from Greek pantheon. Are they the same gods who traveled (like the Egyptian pantheon), or are they inspired by our past pantheons? :confused: As far as I know Morka, they are the SAME gods from these mythologies. I don't really have anything to back that up but if they're just inspired... they're about as close as carbon-copies of them.
bahamut_0 03-18-04, 05:05 AM	Hmmm, this is an interesting thread, you learn something new every day :) Thanks for the post Faraer.
Mr. VanderMeer 03-18-04, 05:37 AM	I believe it has been written that these gods are the same and have travelled over.
Lashan 03-18-04, 11:42 AM	If you want to find out about the Old Empire gods coming over, you should look at the Beacon of Ra artifact entry in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. I do believe that is what it was called, and if not, then something similiar. Basically, the Imaskari needed a slave race, so they jumped through portals and yanked races of people (much like in Stargate). The people who were enslaved beseeched their gods. Ao allowed these prayers to be sent to their pantheon and allowed these gods entry into this world. The gods travelled through time/space with the Beacon leading them. From there, they caused the uprising which threw down the Imaskari empire. These gods had living avatars that stayed on in the world and ruled the Old Empires. Some died in the Orcgate wars, some went mad, and all sorts of stuff happened during ToT. With the Unther god Gilgemea (sp?) dying, Mulhorand invaded Unther. Their idea is that they are incorporating their brothers before some other nation tries to conquer them (since they don't have their god to watch over them anymore). Correct me if I am wrong, as I am shooting from the hip here.
Mirtek 03-18-04, 12:10 PM	Originally posted by Lashan Basically, the Imaskari needed a slave race, so they jumped through portals and yanked races of people (much like in Stargate). The people who were enslaved beseeched their gods. Ao allowed these prayers to be sent to their pantheon and allowed these gods entry into this world. The gods travelled through time/space with the Beacon leading them. From there, they caused the uprising which threw down the Imaskari empire. These gods had living avatars that stayed on in the world and ruled the Old Empires. Some died in the Orcgate wars, some went mad, and all sorts of stuff happened during ToT. With the Unther god Gilgemea (sp?) dying, Mulhorand invaded Unther. Their idea is that they are incorporating their brothers before some other nation tries to conquer them (since they don't have their god to watch over them anymore). Correct me if I am wrong, as I am shooting from the hip here. Correct. Some other details: The Imaskari constructed a magical barrier to keep the gods from follwoing their people These barrier prevented the gods from etablishing divine connecting Ao offered them a deal: Send a single empowered avatar to Toril to work on the barrier from within If an avatar was destroyed he was just reabsorbed by the deity but her connection to Toril was lost forever After the ToT Ao decided to lift the barrier The surving avatars were absorbed by these deities could finally make a true connection to the Realms Originally posted by Morka There are other gods that were taken from old pantheons, like Tyr from Norse Pantheon, or Tyche from Greek pantheon. Are they the same gods who traveled (like the Egyptian pantheon), or are they inspired by our past pantheons? :confused: They are the same. On Hallowed Grounds tells how they came to become part of the pantheon of Toril As far as I recall: The finnish pantheon was dying and Mielikki wanted to saver herself Loviatar followed Mielikki whom she hated Tyr saw his role in his home pantheon ursuped by fellow gods and needed a new place Oghma and Silvanus are the same as in the celtic pantheon, but AFAIK no reason is given for their reasons, they just chose to be worshipped on Toril in addition to being in their home pantheons
Brahzs M'ahnkei 03-18-04, 12:46 PM	Does anyone remember a Dragon Mag. article in which Elminster and the high sage/ godlike wizard from Greyhawk (sorry his name is not coming to me) met? I am not familier with the "interview with Elminster" articles that Mr. Greenwood used to write up, but the setting, as I remember it, sounds like it may have taken place in Ed's Earth-based study. The two drank soda and discussed whether or not they should invite Dalamar (re: Dragonlance) to this meeting as he was the "new" head of Black Robes. Ring a bell anyone?
Faraer 03-18-04, 12:52 PM	Yes, the "Magic in the Evening"/"Wizards Three" articles are in Dragon #185, 188, 196, 200, 211, 219, 238, 242, and 246. They take place in Ed's house in Canada.
cwslyclgh 03-18-04, 01:03 PM	Mordenkainen is the name you are looking for.
Erik_Steel 03-19-04, 02:00 AM	Originally posted by cwslyclgh Mordenkainen is the name you are looking for. Wasn't that Gary Gygax's first character?
Mr. VanderMeer 03-19-04, 05:04 AM	probably not his first character, but definitely his favorite!
Maximillian Hellspont 03-30-04, 02:01 PM	Originally posted by Mirtek They are the same. On Hallowed Grounds tells how they came to become part of the pantheon of Toril What is On Hallowed Grounds? Is it an FR sourcebook? Any idea of when it was published? Thanks!
trentlanthier 03-30-04, 02:31 PM	Was that the article that Elminster gave Dalamar from Dragonlance a marshmellow?? And met with Mordy from Greyhawk??
Kuje31 03-30-04, 02:48 PM	Originally posted by Maximillian Hellspont What is On Hallowed Grounds? Is it an FR sourcebook? Any idea of when it was published? Thanks! On Hallowed Ground is a Planescape sourcebook printed in 96
Orion the Raven 04-07-04, 07:45 AM	Supposedly, at some point in the distant past, the Realms and Earth were connected, but were seperated by something or someone into two different worlds. If you look far enough into the past of the realms, you get all kinds of neat stuff on the realms, AO, the Shadevari, Shar, and such. It is very interesting how all this has mutated over the years into the current realms as published.
Faraer 04-07-04, 07:48 AM	No, the connections still exist, as dozens of sources document, they're just largely forgotten.
Orion the Raven 04-07-04, 07:52 AM	I know the connections are still there. I was refering to the two worlds actually being one, as in coexisting as one unified world on the same plane of existance. A fact that I do not know if it is still true or not.
Faraer 04-07-04, 07:54 AM	That was never the idea. Same plane of existence perhaps, but not the same world.
Orion the Raven 04-07-04, 08:20 AM	The notion was expressedly mentioned in some past sourcebook or magazine. Its been years, so I cannot give you the exact refrence, but I know that at least at one point, this was "the story".
Mirtek 04-07-04, 04:50 PM	Before 3e all worlds where on the same plane. There was only one single prime material plane and all worlds were just different planets on this one and only material plane
guru7892 06-09-04, 10:32 PM	ok here we go, the fallowing is a list of modern day counter parts to there faerunian, umm counterpart... anyway go to page 231 in your fearunian guide look at faerun, now look at a world map, now look at greenland, now look back at faerun, see somthing strange? now look at zakhara, now look at antartica now look at kara-tur, that is a deformed africa (beyond reconition) now look at maztica, look at the unknown areas to the north and sounth, now look at north and south america and east of kara-tur, you see austrailia and the yellow sea from the north you ser russia, and the west japan yup, you could probably find more similarities, but trust me, faerun is the earth, just twisted. so if they wherent connected it would seem like they should be.
WaaMatt 06-18-05, 05:07 PM	I was under the impression that a) int he FRCS it says that to get from one cosmology to the next you use Toril's Plane of Shadow, not Astral Plane and b) when a deity goes to another cosmology it basically clones itself. In some 3e/3.5e supplement there is a passage about deities being killed off in one cosmology not affecting their other selves elsewhere. (Might explain some things with what I've accidentally read about Lolth. I've only read book 1 of WotSQ!) So, I wouldn't say deities from other worlds and pantheons moved to Toril. I'd say they sent copies of themselves to spread their influence and expand their fanbase. Or, worshippers. Whatever. :D Are we supposed to pretend Planescape and Spelljammers never existed for 3e FR? You can still acquire plenty of written material (such as the Realms of... anthologies) and see reference to stuff that's not around anymore (ie, Spelljammers). I could care less either way, but I was just wondering if there's any kind of official statement on the matter. I always liked the idea that all worlds exist in one universe found within a prime material plane, but I also really, really like the way the FR cosmology is set up. So... I dunno where I'm going with this anymore.
Faraer 06-18-05, 06:06 PM	I don't even think it matters what the current rules say about methods of worldwalking. The fact is that it's a basic premise of the Realms, and the passage of gods and people into the Realms is entrenched in Realmslore. That doesn't get superseded by mere rules artifacts that will change with the next edition of the game, especially ones in non-Realms books. Both Planescape elements (Sigil, frex) and Spelljammer elements are mentioned in recent Realms sources, though not stressed, so there's no reason to 'pretend Planescape and Spelljammers never existed'.
WaaMatt 06-18-05, 06:18 PM	OK. But as a note, I never considered the mention of getting from Toril's cosmology to other cosmologies by means of Toril's Plane of Shadow a rule. It seems much more like a fluff element to me. As does the whole thing about deities essentially cloning themselves into new cosmologies. That one has a rules side to it for the current edition of the game, one that I can't imagine would drastically change if the game saw a new edition, but... I see your point.
The WarOverlord 06-23-05, 01:15 AM	Just today, Ed said (talking of using Castlemorn in the Realms), I am so trying not to sing "Stones" right now :rolleyes: